Pehlvan

who are fanatics please explain??

yes please explain who the fanatics are, maybe we can shed some light

He's right, there are definitely 'crazed fanatics' and intolerant ones involved in this debate. The ones who:

• do not tolerate the Gurdwara's right to have a protocol and maryada
  
• do not tolerate the hukamnamas written by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji and the Sri Akal Takhat Sahib
  
• do not tolerate their parents right to have a say in who their life partner should be. The parents who brought you up and made you what you are, and you don't have the decency to ask their opinion in the most important decision of your life ? You just come home one day and TELL them that this is what you are going to do ? Yes, you are very tolerant, aren't you ?
  
• do not tolerate the Sikhs right to wish to keep their faith alive and passed onto the next generation
  
• do not tolerate the sanctity of marriage and the rights of parents to keep their daughter's chastity intact
  

It is these fanatical liberals/lefties who are the fanatic and intolerant ones here and NOT the Singhs who want the protocol of the Gurdwara respected. They are the ones who forcefully try to convert US to their liberal/lefty/secular way of thinking.

Feminism is evil and has nothing to do with Sikhi. True Sikh bibyan are nothing like feminists; they are humble, righteous, dutiful and devoted to their families. Whereas feminists are selfish, arrogant and care more about their careers and getting promotion then their family. This is the reason that family/community values are on the decline. Unfortunately Sikhs have hopped onto the barmy PC bandwagon and we are losing it, big time. A lot of the problems we talk about on this forum are due to feminism.

i had one elder say to me, Sikhi is about equality, so non-Sikhs should be allowed to get married in a Gurdwara as the Gurdwara represents equality for all. i turned round and said, well if that's the case, why are we discirminating against Muslims in the langar then, we should have Halal meat served in the langar to cater for the Muslims as as clearly this is discrimination too....He had nothing to say after that!!!

Good answer. This modern day, lefty, perverse interpretation of equality is NOT what the Gurus meant. Why don't we let people into the gurdwara with cigarettes, alcohol, head uncovered, shoes on ?......wouldn't want to upset anyone right ? Equality is about respecting others but also having the dignity and self-respect to ask for the same in return. It's about having principles and taking a stand when you need to. Lefties typically don't stand for anything and will just say anything to be popular.

Non-sikhs do not marry in a gurdwara because they have a new-found respect for Sikhi, it is because they have no choice if they want to be with their 'sikh' partner. They are taking the mick by dating someone else's daughter/sister behind their back and dishonouring them. On top of that they want to come to the gurdwara and get married. We have lost our anakh and sharam; this would NEVER have been allowed before.

If we really cared about Sikhi, we would make sure our partner is Sikh so that we can pass it on to our kids and make our community and nation stronger.

What is it with Sikh girls these days?

There was one at the Singh Sabha gurdwara in Slough a couple of weeks ago. The Ramgarhia gurdwara has banned them here in Slough.

We have fed Sikh girls barmy PC lefist nonsense from birth and now we are paying a big price. Through our ignorance and corrupt intellect we have then misinterpreted Sikhi to make it look like Sikhi agrees with these daft ideas (which it doesn't). Our old culture needs to be brought back if we have any chance of surviving.

Good on the Ramgarhia gurdwara comittee........at least some of us have anakh and sharam left.

Big respect to the Singhs who protested. If the people who want to marry non-Sikhs had any respect for Sikhi they would not have relationships outside of marriage in the first place. They can't control their emotions, fall in so-called 'love' and then except the Gurdwara to break rules stated in the Sikh Rehat Marayada and hukamnamas just for them. How arrogant and selfish ! Then they have the cheek to call the Singhs 'intolerant' and 'extreme' !

OK, if you are saying you have bhavikya-gyan.

Not bhavikya-gyan, but based on what has happened in the past with Badal it is easy to see that he has no desire to fight for Sikhs. His intentions are clear - to keep power for his family and, if need be, continously stab Sikhs in the back. Trusting him is like trusting a snake.

it wasnt SS who appointed saini, it was badal, and SS made their feelings known about this, also it was pressure from the SS that stopped another mass murderer becoming a mp (alam).

You are right about this, and also Jaspal Singhs case, the govt is out of order(nothing new) but having SS there on the byline is going to be a positive step for the welfare of the Panth.

Badal doesnt care about alcohol/murder by police/drugs etc, all he cares about is votes and power. Leave it to him alone, and the day wont be far, when the ravan sena start false encounters again.

And rememeber SS aligned with Badal to get a foothold and say in the activities of SGPC. Not to run the state govt with him. You cant hold SS guilty for every crime of Badal.

Alam may have been stopped but then his wife stood which is in effect the same thing. Is this what we call a victory ? Sant samaj and all other panthic minded jathebandees need to get together and create an alternative party. The fact that Badal even had the nerve to appoint Alam and Saini shows how much respect he has for sant samaj.

Actions speak louder than words and in 5 years the situation in Punjab will be the same and we will be crying about the same problems. Nothing will change.

While I don't disagree with your point of trusting the same traitors, the question is whether there is a credible, appealing, Sikhi-based political alternative to SA-Badal, SA-Mann, SAPP-Bittu, and the answer is none. My opinion is Panjabi Sikhs look at the situation and think well which party will do less damage to Sikhism out of BJP, Congress and SA-Badal (note that Panjabi Sikhs wont even consider Khalistani parties) they go with Badal. There needs to be a proper opposition party with a good agenda and in-depth policies related to prosperity of Sikh religion alongside development of Panjab for the situation to change

Yes, absolutely. There needs to be an alternative. It could be done by Mann, Bittu, Sant Samaj, Taksal all getting together and creating this party. Then they will have more leverage against Badal.

I know that the authorities have said that Sikhs can wear kirpans at the Olympics, but does anyone know what size it has to be ? Or, can it be any size ?

Bro, if you think the Akalis were in it to fight for Sikh rights, then you must research the origins of the DYM.

What did you expect from SS/badal alliance within such a short space of time?

On the positive, SS has 30 seats in the SGPC, so there are at least 30 areas in Panjab where parchaar of Sikhi will be bolstered. badal has over-ridden sgpc chief in favour of Baba Harnam Singh to get a memorial built.

Give Sant Samaj some time. I am sure that we will see results in favour of the Panth.

I didn't expect them to appoint a mass murderer of Sikhs as the head of police. I didn't expect them to kill Shaheed Jaspal Singh, promise to punish the guilty and then go back on their word. Even Jaspal Singh's family is now openly saying how the government has gone back on their word and is even giving them threats to drop the case.

Badal has been in power for 10 of the last 15 years, is that not enough time to do something ? How about the growing alcohol/drug problem in Punjab. Can't the government do anything ? Really ? How did the Gujarat state manage to ban alcohol, then ?

The 1984 memorial has nothing to do with Badal, it was the pressure of the Sikh kaum. The only thing he likes about it is that he can use it against Congress as a political pawn. Even now he is saying there won't be pictures there, just a Gurdwara. Because, he doesn't want people to remember.

Our problem is that we are trusting the same traitors and making the same mistakes again and again.

yes, because Sant Ji knew for the betterment of the panth, he would still have to present a united front with the Akalis. If Sant Ji had split with them, then the enemies of the panth would be laughing at us.

But he was only united with them when they were fighting for Sikh rights....this is the point. The morcha at that time was huge and was bringing India to its' knees. It was a fight for Sikh political, economic and religious rights.

If we compare it with today, Badal group has turned its' back on all of the morchas of the past and is doing NOTHING for Sikhs. He has lied to us time and time again.This being the case, it is disappointing to see Harnam Singh Dhuma/Jasbir Singh Rode/Sant Samaj joining with Badal. It's no good them saying they are doing it for the Panth when NOTHING is being achieved through this alliance except Sikhi is finishing from Punjab.

have you seen the interview of Sant Ji by Kesar Singh Mand?

Yes, that was taken in 1984 because by then Sant Ji had come to Akal Takhat Sahib. At that point he had fallen out with the Akalis but they were still both participating in the Morcha.

If this terrorist does come into this country, there needs to be mass protests and Sikhs need to treat it as a matter of urgency. Hope the Sikh channels will take this up.

Bruv, do you honestly think that Sant jarnail SIngh didnt know what the Akalis were all about? They were the same as the Badals, only care about the vote and power. But Sant Ji in his wisdom, knew that without a united front, it would have been more difficult to achieve the objectives theywanted to. Same with Baba Harnam Singh Ji, he is shrewd enough to know that a certain amount of compromise has to be done to get access to wider Sikh sangat.

The difference is that at that time:

• the Akalis were fighting the Dharam Yudh Morcha and were talking about the rights of the Sikhs.
  
• they were not aligned with a party like BJP who is openly anti-Sikh and who encouraged the government to attack Harimandar Sahib.
  

Badal Dal has completely turned its' back on everything that they stood for and even openly says that it s a secular party. Shaheed Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa was with the Akalis as long as they were fighting for the Panth........and, he also said that if they turn their back on this Morcha then I will expose them.

If someone has that sort of history they shouldn't project themselves as a representative/leader of Sikhs. Recently we have also seen a convicted Tax fraudster being a presenter on the Sikh channel. If you've got that sort of past then just have some SHARAM and don't try and project yourself.

This dirty dog can bark all he wants. The Sikhs have declared Shaheed Sant Jarnail Singh Ji as the greatest Sikh of the 20th Century. And now the whole world is slowly finding out what this evil turd "Hitler Brar" and his army did in those days. He is to Sikhs what Hitler is to the Jews, but the difference is that he claims to be from the same community that he carried out a genocide against. What a complete disgrace.

Best to learn from a real teacher as they will be able to give you the small pointers that make all the difference. Like Jagga said, if you get into bad habits it is hard to change them later on. Learning online is a bit of a gimmick and is not the proper way to learn. With a human teacher, learning face-to-face, you experience the music and get inspired from hearing your teacher play.

Also, when looking for a teacher look for a 'dilruba' teacher rather than a 'taus' teacher as there will be more of them. Taus is just a bigger version of the dilruba so if you can play one you can play the other. There must be dilruba players in California somewhere.

The Gurmat Sangeet Project is based in the USA: http://gurmatsangeetproject.com/index.htm would be worth contacting them. They have organised Gurmat Sangeet programs in Stockton Gurdwara Sahib, so you could contact them also. Also there is this website: http://www.gurmatsangeetdarbar.com/

There is the Ali Akbar Khan school of music in California, not sure how far this is from you: http://www.aacm.org/ Don't think they do dilruba classes, but they do vocal classes so if you want to do kirtan, it would be worth it. Also try posting on this forum: http://forums.chandrakantha.com/

Good Luck !

There is another concert this Saturday 28th April at Hitchin Gurdwara Sahib. This will be in a separate hall to the Gurdwara (Mata Sahib Kaur Hall). See below:

Saturday 28 April 2012

Pandit Yogesh Samsi (Tabla Solo), Manjit Singh(percussion) and other musicians with Kaviraj Singh (Santoor and Harmonium)

7.30pm, Singh Sabha Gurdwara, Wilbury Way, Hitchin, SG4 0TP.

Tickets: THIS IS A FREE EVENT

Saturday 21 April 2012

Pandit Yogesh Samsi (Tabla Solo), Amritpal (Tony) Singh Rasiya (Tabla Solo) with Kaviraj Singh (Lehera, Harmonium)

7.30pm, Guru Nanak Sikh Academy, Springfield Road, Hayes, Middlesex, UB4 0LT.

Tickets: £10, £8 consession (proof needed), Children under 12 FREE

to buy tickets go to: http://www.saazmusic.org/

See the following link from 44.23:

This Singh tells about the conversation he had with Makkar (current SGPC head and senior Badal chamcha):

Singh: "What problem do you have ? If the current Jathedars are ready to leave their posts then why don't you make Bhai Rajoana the Jathedar ?

Makkar: "We (the SGPC) have already seen what happened when we made Bhai Ranjit Singh the Jathedar"

Makkar here means that if we made Bhai Rajoana the Jathedar he would speak against us (ie. speak the truth - something that is foreign to these masands) and he could also summon Badal to the Akal Takhat Sahib and punish him for the wrong that he does.

Even though the Panth has overwhelmingly asked for Bhai Rajoana to be made Jathedar, he will not be because only the SGPC has the power to do it and they will only install puppets. As soon as the Jathedar starts speaking truth they will remove him like they did to Bhai Ranjit Singh.

Until Sri Akal Takhat Sahib is free from these masands, the Panthic struggle cannot move forward.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/resolution-passed-by-tn-assembly-on-convicts/839234/

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-10-07/news/30253993_1_three-convicts-rajiv-gandhi-resolution

"The Tamil Nadu Assembly has passed a resolution demanding that the three killers of former Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi should not be hanged. The execution was to take place on September 9."

The above happened in August 2011. If the Tamil Nadu government can do it, then why can't Punjab government do the same for Bhai Rajoana ?

See the link below (go to 1:07). The reporter asks Badal "Will this issue (Rajoana hanging) be brought up in the Assembly ?" to which he replies "Assembly vich tai edha ki lorr hai ji" which means "there is no need to bring this up in the Assembly"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWhA-lDkivE

Why is he doing this ?.......because the right-wing BJP doesn't want to pass a resolution:

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2012/20120325/punjab.htm#3

Yet again, 'Gaddar-Eh-Kaum' is putting his chair before the interests of the Sikh nation.

The head of BJP Punjab is saying that "Our party has always been against extremism. The case is in court, let the law take it's course."

This clearly shows (as if proof was needed...) that BJP considers Bhai Balwant Singh's heroic actions as extremism. 'Extremist' is only used for Sikhs when they fight back against oppression, those who murdered thousands of Sikhs are never called 'Extremist'.

........And this is the party that Badal Dal is in a coalition with !

Harminder Singh, you have hit the nail on the head. It's a shame a lot of Sikhs don't understand. Until Akal Takhat Sahib is free from the clutches of Badal, the nation cannot move forward. The aadesh was very weak, it offers Badal a way out, it doesn't even mention carrying on the Khalistan movement started by Shaheed Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa. The 250 jathebandies at the meeting suggested that Bhai Rajoana be made the Akal Takhat Jathedar. The jathedars even admitted that we can resign from our posts, but the SGPC decides who becomes Jathedar. Another thing that we need to understand is that the power of the Akal Takhat Sahib is because the Panth is behind it. Today the Panth cannot choose the Jathedar or make decisions at Akal Takhat Sahib......and this all because of Badal.

This is coming on Sikh Channel now (tues, 7pm GMT).

This is what Dr Sadhu Singh has said about it. It happened in Amritsar, near Baba Deep Singh Ji Shaheed Gurdwara. SGPC people were loading gutkas and pothi sahib into a dirty three wheeler with no respect. A Nihang Singh objected to this and they beat him up. He then phoned the Satkar Committee Singhs who were in Harimandar Sahib. They arrived on the scene and dozens of SGPC Task Force started beating them with sticks and kirpans. The Sikh Channel arrived and the Task Force starting beating them as-well. They snatched the Sikh Channel camera and their ID Card - they have still got these. The Sikh Channel camera-man got beaten up quite badly, they took his dastar off and broke his kanga. He is now in hiding. Satkar committee Singhs are under arrest in police stations.

i can read punjabi...but my vocabulary is too limited and im unable to form complete sentences and have to resort to filling the gaps with angrezi words too offten...they say you have achieved complete fluency when you begin to think in that specific language....what steps or tips are there to achieve that kind of fluency...i wont be content with basic conversational standard...

Speak Punjabi at home - make a rule in the house that only Punjabi is spoken. Don't use English words when speaking Punjabi...........this is the reason that even people living in Punjab have weak Punjab nowadays. It is a bad habit that our people have developed and is the reason that the Punjabi language is dying.

Get a Punjabi-English and a English-Punjabi dictionary, and if you don't know a word then look it up and remember it for next time. Read Punjabi books and newspapers regularly. Listen to katha regularly.

Give your learning of Punjabi the highest importance and you will see the results.