randip singh

Whatever happened to the optomistic Chardiankalan attitude................you got to learn to be more optomistic Bandha ji. Firstly let us define metaphor: My personal belief is that the Guru's and everyone connected with the Guru's never performed miracles......why would they have to .........their deeds and words were a miracle in themselves. As for Baba Deep Singh ji, I believe he was fataly wounded wit a deep gash to his neck, but still carried on fighting. This made it appear as if his head was seperated. If people want to believe his head was seperated and he carried it thats fine...................but for me the fact he carried on fighting despite the fatal wounds to his neck personifies the Chardian Kalan attitude. So I don't think using the word metaphor is appropriate in this instance. Best Wishes

How about this........how about in our lifetime we reach the staus of a Gurmukh....we are at one with God.....would that not be heaven on Earth? ..................and when we die our body/matter (molecules etc), become part of the Universe once more, only to reform into something else.....and our life force is merged with the one true Lord. Now imagine the opposite to this.

Very true Randip Singh, the problem Sikhs have today is that they don’t understand symbolism and metaphors, in order for something to be tangible it must has an explainable existence, or a valid and logical explanation, in the time of our Gurus poetry and story telling was like mass media and was available to all. I must say though that id people are comfortable with another way of understanding it then I say good luck A good example of this is Dasam Granth.....Guruji could not make many of his newly formed Khalsa understand Sikh concepts.....so he refered back to Hindu mythology which they (the people) understood.

Thanks friend.....and may I add you seem to be doing a great job on your website too.

My opinion is that Jamduts and alike are metaphors, and describes the state man can get himself/herself into when seduced by the 5 thieves.

Actually their is a British account which I read of field rashions that Sikhs used to have when times were scarce and it consisted of a Potatoe like paste wrapped in a bread. In times of peace they hunted the jungle hog. Read: Sikh History From Persian Sources - Grewal and Habib also Sicques, Tigers and Thieves - Eyewitness Accounts of the Sikhs (1606-1909) Both are interesting contemporary accounts of Sikh behaviour during times of strife and peace. Regards

Just because I'm an Uncle, does not mean I have any more wisdom than you......I have learned more from some 14 year olds, than some old Babay.......and thats the truth.

That may work for you but for me diet has made no difference. The only type of diet that does make a difference I have found is fatty foods, and high cholestoral.....that slows the mind and body down. Point 1 - if you understood even 1 iota of Sikh history you would realise what a foolish statement you have made. These are not conspiracy theories I have come up with they are facts. Point 2 - I have been to India and other places. I have seen and met people and Saints with varying opinion. Some consume met, and some don't......it is a personal choice. They are rare, but in my experince too they are dime a dozen too. The one's I know are humble people who live the life of a householder. Same like the one's I know....they remain anonymous. Yes, and the one's I have spoken to agree the question of debates over diet is irrelevant (whether they are vege or non-vege)..........it is a personal choice. At least you are acknowledging I have a brain. Mt friend I have been on a spiritual quest for years......and even after these years I know nothing.....but I do know one theing, and that arguing over such a trivial issue is irrelevant...........its like two wide boys from Ilford arguing that my BMW is faster than your BMW. Best Wishes

Weere you there? Can you prove they had no choice? Have you got a reliable factual account of this? Give me dates and times of who wrote the accounts of they had no choice?

Well you are a Baba who preaches Pakhand according to your name ......I meet thousands everyday online and walking up and down Soho Road and Smethwick High Street. I have said neither.....I have said they did....and I have said they didn't......but their are accounts (click on my link at footnote) they did. For me this is irrelevant because it is a personal choice, and would not effect my opinion of the Guru's.....they were truly great men. In terms of following....we should like the 11th Guru says........control the 5 thieves.......then the relevance of the issue will become irrelevant. Regards

Its irrelevant....but their are accounts by Mohsin Fani. Again whether Guru's did or didn't is irrelevant. They were at such a hightened spiritual state it would make no differnce to them. PS I am 38....so I doubt I am your son...... :D ))))

Firstly, stop writing like a common hood from South London.....I thought you studied Law......I can't possibly take you seriously when you write like that. Call me Muslim whatever, I really don't care....but my name is Randip........which has a totally different meaning from Ranjit. In anycase Guruji gave me that name....who are you to change it? As for vegetarianism.....it is a historical fact this conflict between meat eating and vegetarian Sikh arose from the influx in the late 19th Century of Vaishnav Hindu's (mostly Tarkhans and Jatts).......these guys were influenced by Brahmin's. If you read your history you will find many of these derawalay and Sant Mat groups that make such a noise about such an idiotic issue have their origins their. You sound fairly intelligent.....read history, study (not just read but study) Bani (see it in its socilogical and historical context)............don't be brainwashed.........the vege meat issue is a smoke screen by sinister forces at work that wish to abosorb Sikhism into Hinduism. We are already behaving and acting like Hindu's in turbans (unwittingly). The sooner you read up on this, the sooner you will become aware....and the sooner you will dismiss the issue and understand why the Guru's dismissed it.

are you saying she is a proper Gursikh.....beacuse if you are....then it is completely true.......do a search for Tej Kaur and you will find she is a remarkable woman.

sorry what is "tyar bar tyar".........I dont recognise the words?

Next stage women wear Brukhay and walk around covered.....divide Gurdwara's like Mosque's..........have 4 wives just in case you cannot control lust.........and just to make sure you are in control....get circumcised.....

Brother....a few years ago I went to India....one of the most illuminating experiences I had. There I met wise men and women Sikh and non-Sikh. It had a profound effect on me.........on the sikhs, they opened my eyes to deep meanings of Bani..............I'm not saying I know everything....infact compared to those fellas and ladies my knowledge is nil........however this is the general understanding I deerived. These people were no Saints with Dera's etc....but ordinary men and women who lived the life of a householder. PS It is not a question of whether there is a heaven or hell........but rather whether it is a physical place.....I belive it is a physical place in the sense we create it when we dwell in the 5 thieves...........Bani seems to suggest a Sikh does not desire heaven or hell.....

Brother....you wish to believe that carry on.....Bundha believes that tooo............I don't.......I have highlighted with quotes from Bani what I believe. Best Wishes

Not that so much friend but I like it when some one tries something a little different....and this is. :D

Are you on some medication? But seriously.....the Masai Warriors from Kenya drink cows blood mixed with spices......they attribute this to their physical strength and endurance. They are all 6 footers.......a remarkable people who fascinate me. Apparently their iniation as a man they have to kill a male lion armed only with their shield made of hide and a spear.......

What on Earth are you talking about? Anyway...back to the topic....to reafirm Guruji view that living in the 5 theives is hell: Page 466 ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੧ ॥ सलोक मः १ ॥ salok mehlaa 1. Shalok, First Mehl: ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਇਆ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਗਇਆ ॥ हउ विचि आइआ हउ विचि गइआ ॥ ha-o vich aa-i-aa ha-o vich ga-i-aa. In ego they come, and in ego they go. ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਜੰਮਿਆ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਮੁਆ ॥ हउ विचि जमिआ हउ विचि मुआ ॥ ha-o vich jammi-aa ha-o vich mu-aa. In ego they are born, and in ego they die. ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਦਿਤਾ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਲਇਆ ॥ हउ विचि दिता हउ विचि लइआ ॥ ha-o vich ditaa ha-o vich la-i-aa. In ego they give, and in ego they take. ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਖਟਿਆ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਗਇਆ ॥ हउ विचि खटिआ हउ विचि गइआ ॥ ha-o vich khati-aa ha-o vich ga-i-aa. In ego they earn, and in ego they lose. ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਸਚਿਆਰੁ ਕੂੜਿਆਰੁ ॥ हउ विचि सचिआरु कूड़िआरु ॥ ha-o vich sachiaar koorhi-aar. In ego they become truthful or false. ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ हउ विचि पाप पुंन वीचारु ॥ ha-o vich paap punn veechaar. In ego they reflect on virtue and sin. ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਨਰਕਿ ਸੁਰਗਿ ਅਵਤਾਰੁ ॥ हउ विचि नरकि सुरगि अवतारु ॥ ha-o vich narak surag avtaar. In ego they go to heaven or hell. ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਹਸੈ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਰੋਵੈ ॥ हउ विचि हसै हउ विचि रोवै ॥ ha-o vich hasai ha-o vich rovai. In ego they laugh, and in ego they weep. ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਭਰੀਐ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਧੋਵੈ ॥ हउ विचि भरीऐ हउ विचि धोवै ॥ ha-o vich bharee-ai ha-o vich Dhovai. In ego they become dirty, and in ego they are washed clean. ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਾਤੀ ਜਿਨਸੀ ਖੋਵੈ ॥ हउ विचि जाती जिनसी खोवै ॥ ha-o vich jaatee jinsee khovai. In ego they lose social status and class. ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥ हउ विचि मूरखु हउ विचि सिआणा ॥ ha-o vich moorakh ha-o vich si-aanaa. In ego they are ignorant, and in ego they are wise. ਮੋਖ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕੀ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ॥ मोख मुकति की सार न जाणा ॥ mokh mukat kee saar na jaanaa. They do not know the value of salvation and liberation. ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਛਾਇਆ ॥ हउ विचि माइआ हउ विचि छाइआ ॥ ha-o vich maa-i-aa ha-o vich chhaa-i-aa. In ego they love Maya, and in ego they are kept in darkness by it. ਹਉਮੈ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਜੰਤ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ हउमै करि करि जंत उपाइआ ॥ ha-umai kar kar jant upaa-i-aa. Living in ego, mortal beings are created. ਹਉਮੈ ਬੂਝੈ ਤਾ ਦਰੁ ਸੂਝੈ ॥ हउमै बूझै ता दरु सूझै ॥ ha-umai boojhai taa dar soojhai. When one understands ego, then the Lord's gate is known. ਗਿਆਨ ਵਿਹੂਣਾ ਕਥਿ ਕਥਿ ਲੂਝੈ ॥ गिआन विहूणा कथि कथि लूझै ॥ gi-aan vihoonaa kath kath loojhai. Without spiritual wisdom, they babble and argue. ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਲੇਖੁ ॥ नानक हुकमी लिखीऐ लेखु ॥ naanak hukmee likee-ai laykh. O Nanak, by the Lord's Command, destiny is recorded. ਜੇਹਾ ਵੇਖਹਿ ਤੇਹਾ ਵੇਖੁ ॥੧॥ जेहा वेखहि तेहा वेखु ॥१॥ jayhaa vaykheh tayhaa vaykh. ||1|| As the Lord sees us, so are we seen. ||1|| Their is no such thing as the Semitic or Hindu concept of Hell for a Sikh. Being at one with waheguroo is the goal. Unfortunately those with Sant Maat tendencies are still stuck at the Hindu and Semitic concepts of Heaven and Hell......they cannot seem to move on........man it must be HELL for them!!!

Here are some examples of a description of hell in th Sikh context from Bani: Page 220 ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ॥ गउड़ी महला ९ ॥ ga-orhee mehlaa 9. Gauree, Ninth Mehl: ਸਾਧੋ ਰਾਮ ਸਰਨਿ ਬਿਸਰਾਮਾ ॥ साधो राम सरनि बिसरामा ॥ saaDho raam saran bisraamaa. Holy Saadhus: rest and peace are in the Sanctuary of the Lord. ਬੇਦ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਪੜੇ ਕੋ ਇਹ ਗੁਨ ਸਿਮਰੇ ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ बेद पुरान पड़े को इह गुन सिमरे हरि को नामा ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ bayd puraan parhay ko ih gun simray har ko naamaa. ||1|| rahaa-o. This is the blessing of studying the Vedas and the Puraanas, that you may meditate on the Name of the Lord. ||1||Pause|| ਲੋਭ ਮੋਹ ਮਾਇਆ ਮਮਤਾ ਫੁਨਿ ਅਉ ਬਿਖਿਅਨ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ॥ लोभ मोह माइआ ममता फुनि अउ बिखिअन की सेवा ॥ lobh moh maa-i-aa mamtaa fun a-o bikhi-an kee sayvaa. Greed, emotional attachment to Maya, possessiveness, the service of evil, ਹਰਖ ਸੋਗ ਪਰਸੈ ਜਿਹ ਨਾਹਨਿ ਸੋ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਹੈ ਦੇਵਾ ॥੧॥ हरख सोग परसै जिह नाहनि सो मूरति है देवा ॥१॥ harakh sog parsai jih naahan so moorat hai dayvaa. ||1|| pleasure and pain - those who are not touched by these, are the very embodiment of the Divine Lord. ||1|| ਸੁਰਗ ਨਰਕ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਬਿਖੁ ਏ ਸਭ ਤਿਉ ਕੰਚਨ ਅਰੁ ਪੈਸਾ ॥ सुरग नरक अम्रित बिखु ए सभ तिउ कंचन अरु पैसा ॥ surag narak amrit bikh ay sabh ti-o kanchan ar paisaa. Heaven and hell, ambrosial nectar and poison, gold and copper - these are all alike to them. ਉਸਤਤਿ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਏ ਸਮ ਜਾ ਕੈ ਲੋਭੁ ਮੋਹੁ ਫੁਨਿ ਤੈਸਾ ॥੨॥ उसतति निंदा ए सम जा कै लोभु मोहु फुनि तैसा ॥२॥ ustat nindaa ay sam jaa kai lobh moh fun taisaa. ||2|| Praise and slander are all the same to them, as are greed and attachment. ||2|| ਦੁਖੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਏ ਬਾਧੇ ਜਿਹ ਨਾਹਨਿ ਤਿਹ ਤੁਮ ਜਾਨਉ ਗਿਆਨੀ ॥ दुखु सुखु ए बाधे जिह नाहनि तिह तुम जानउ गिआनी ॥ dukh sukh ay baaDhay jih naahan tih tum jaan-o gi-aanee. They are not bound by pleasure and pain - know that they are truly wise. ਨਾਨਕ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਤਾਹਿ ਤੁਮ ਮਾਨਉ ਇਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਕੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ॥੩॥੭॥ नानक मुकति ताहि तुम मानउ इह बिधि को जो प्रानी ॥३॥७॥ naanak mukat taahi tum maan-o ih biDh ko jo paraanee. ||3||7|| O Nanak, recognize those mortal beings as liberated, who live this way of life. ||3||7|| Here is an example that dwelling in heaven and hell is here and now....a Sikh craves neither: Page 297 ਪਉੜੀ ॥ पउड़ी ॥ pa-orhee. Pauree: ਤ੍ਰਿਤੀਆ ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਬਿਖੈ ਫਲ ਕਬ ਉਤਮ ਕਬ ਨੀਚੁ ॥ त्रितीआ त्रै गुण बिखै फल कब उतम कब नीचु ॥ taritee-aa tarai gun bikhai fal kab utam kab neech. The third day of the lunar cycle: Those who are bound by the three qualities gather poison as their fruit; now they are good, and now they are bad. ਨਰਕ ਸੁਰਗ ਭ੍ਰਮਤਉ ਘਣੋ ਸਦਾ ਸੰਘਾਰੈ ਮੀਚੁ ॥ नरक सुरग भ्रमतउ घणो सदा संघारै मीचु ॥ narak surag bharamta-o ghano sadaa sanghaarai meech. They wander endlessly in heaven and hell, until death annihilates them. ਹਰਖ ਸੋਗ ਸਹਸਾ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਹਉ ਹਉ ਕਰਤ ਬਿਹਾਇ ॥ हरख सोग सहसा संसारु हउ हउ करत बिहाइ ॥ harakh sog sahsaa sansaar ha-o ha-o karat bihaa-ay. In pleasure and pain and worldly cynicism, they pass their lives acting in ego. ਜਿਨਿ ਕੀਏ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਨ ਜਾਣਨੀ ਚਿਤਵਹਿ ਅਨਿਕ ਉਪਾਇ ॥ जिनि कीए तिसहि न जाणनी चितवहि अनिक उपाइ ॥ jin kee-ay tiseh na jaannee chitvahi anik upaa-ay. They do not know the One who created them; they think up all sorts of schemes and plans. ਆਧਿ ਬਿਆਧਿ ਉਪਾਧਿ ਰਸ ਕਬਹੁ ਨ ਤੂਟੈ ਤਾਪ ॥ आधि बिआधि उपाधि रस कबहु न तूटै ताप ॥ aaDh bi-aaDh upaaDh ras kabahu na tootai taap. Their minds and bodies are distracted by pleasure and pain, and their fever never departs. ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪੂਰਨ ਧਨੀ ਨਹ ਬੂਝੈ ਪਰਤਾਪ ॥ पारब्रहम पूरन धनी नह बूझै परताप ॥ paarbarahm pooran Dhanee nah boojhai partaap. They do not realize the glorious radiance of the Supreme Lord God, the Perfect Lord and Master. ਮੋਹ ਭਰਮ ਬੂਡਤ ਘਣੋ ਮਹਾ ਨਰਕ ਮਹਿ ਵਾਸ ॥ मोह भरम बूडत घणो महा नरक महि वास ॥ moh bharam boodat ghano mahaa narak meh vaas. So many are being drowned in emotional attachment and doubt; they dwell in the most horrible hell. ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਰਾਖਿ ਲੇਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਤੇਰੀ ਆਸ ॥੩॥ करि किरपा प्रभ राखि लेहु नानक तेरी आस ॥३॥ kar kirpaa parabh raakh layho naanak tayree aas. ||3|| Please bless me with Your Mercy, God, and save me! Nanak places his hopes in You. ||3|| The fact that Guruji describes heaven and hell as the following: narak surag bharamta-o ghano sadaa sanghaarai meech. They wander endlessly in heaven and hell, until death annihilates them. The fact death liberates one from heaven or hell according to Bani show clearly it is not some celestial place or a place for immortality. The line: ਮੋਹ ਭਰਮ ਬੂਡਤ ਘਣੋ ਮਹਾ ਨਰਕ ਮਹਿ ਵਾਸ ॥ मोह भरम बूडत घणो महा नरक महि वास ॥ moh bharam boodat ghano mahaa narak meh vaas. So many are being drowned in emotional attachment and doubt; they dwell in the most horrible hell. Clearly demonstrates those who live in the five theive dwell in hell.....in this case Moh. Page 337: ਉੜੀ ਪੂਰਬੀ ॥ गउड़ी पूरबी ॥ ga-orhee poorbee. Gauree Poorbee: ਸੁਰਗ ਬਾਸੁ ਨ ਬਾਛੀਐ ਡਰੀਐ ਨ ਨਰਕਿ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ॥ सुरग बासु न बाछीऐ डरीऐ न नरकि निवासु ॥ surag baas na baachhee-ai daree-ai na narak nivaas. Don't wish for a home in heaven, and don't be afraid to live in hell. ਹੋਨਾ ਹੈ ਸੋ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ ਮਨਹਿ ਨ ਕੀਜੈ ਆਸ ॥੧॥ होना है सो होई है मनहि न कीजै आस ॥१॥ honaa hai so ho-ee hai maneh na keejai aas. ||1|| Whatever will be will be, so don't get your hopes up in your mind. ||1|| ਰਮਈਆ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਈਐ ॥ रमईआ गुन गाईऐ ॥ rama-ee-aa gun gaa-ee-ai. Sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, ਜਾ ਤੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਪਰਮ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ जा ते पाईऐ परम निधानु ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥ jaa tay paa-ee-ai param niDhaan. ||1|| rahaa-o. from whom the most excellent treasure is obtained. ||1||Pause|| ਕਿਆ ਜਪੁ ਕਿਆ ਤਪੁ ਸੰਜਮੋ ਕਿਆ ਬਰਤੁ ਕਿਆ ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ॥ किआ जपु किआ तपु संजमो किआ बरतु किआ इसनानु ॥ ki-aa jap ki-aa tap sanjamo ki-aa barat ki-aa isnaan. What good is chanting, penance or self-mortification? What good is fasting or cleansing baths, ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਨ ਜਾਨੀਐ ਭਾਉ ਭਗਤਿ ਭਗਵਾਨ ॥੨॥ जब लगु जुगति न जानीऐ भाउ भगति भगवान ॥२॥ jab lag jugat na jaanee-ai bhaa-o bhagat bhagvaan. ||2|| unless you know the way to worship the Lord God with loving devotion? ||2|| ਸੰਪੈ ਦੇਖਿ ਨ ਹਰਖੀਐ ਬਿਪਤਿ ਦੇਖਿ ਨ ਰੋਇ ॥ स्मपै देखि न हरखीऐ बिपति देखि न रोइ ॥ sampai daykh na harkhee-ai bipat daykh na ro-ay. Don't feel so delighted at the sight of wealth, and don't weep at the sight of suffering and adversity. ਜਿਉ ਸੰਪੈ ਤਿਉ ਬਿਪਤਿ ਹੈ ਬਿਧ ਨੇ ਰਚਿਆ ਸੋ ਹੋਇ ॥੩॥ जिउ स्मपै तिउ बिपति है बिध ने रचिआ सो होइ ॥३॥ ji-o sampai ti-o bipat hai biDh nay rachi-aa so ho-ay. ||3|| As is wealth, so is adversity; whatever the Lord proposes, comes to pass. ||3|| ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਅਬ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਸੰਤਨ ਰਿਦੈ ਮਝਾਰਿ ॥ कहि कबीर अब जानिआ संतन रिदै मझारि ॥ kahi kabeer ab jaani-aa santan ridai majhaar. Says Kabeer, now I know that the Lord dwells within the hearts of His Saints; ਸੇਵਕ ਸੋ ਸੇਵਾ ਭਲੇ ਜਿਹ ਘਟ ਬਸੈ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ॥੪॥੧॥੧੨॥੬੩॥ सेवक सो सेवा भले जिह घट बसै मुरारि ॥४॥१॥१२॥६३॥ sayvak so sayvaa bhalay jih ghat basai muraar. ||4||1||12||63|| that servant performs the best service, whose heart is filled with the Lord. ||4||1||12||63|| So a Sikh should not wish to live in heaven or be affraid of hell. In other words....don't crave to be some sort of Super Saint......and also don't be affraid to confront the 5 thieves. The Sikh concept of heaven of hell is incredibly profound and has nothing to do with Hindu or Semetic concepts............something that Sant Maat groups try and advocate. Don't be fooled by that.

Spot on.

At the moment I am laid up again.......eating too many choclates and other rubbish.....funny when I am not training I eat soo much rubbish.

Muslim Agenda...Ohhh Pleeez.....can't you do better than that? That is why I've been a moderator on www.sikh-history.com since it started. Well unles that person cannot read they will see those figures are Buddha, Jesus, Moses and Mohammed.............even the most gulible idiotic person can see that. As for backing up my argument.....it has nothing to do with it......meat eating and vegetarianism is irrelevant in Sikhism. Only Sant Maat followers are paranoid about it.....incase they get attacked by a stray drumstick. I don't eat KFC and I don't eat Big Mac.....that is crap food.....but I see hundreds of so called Sikhs buying vege burgers from such outlets...........which is full of pure crap. I have no agenda in making people stray offf any path.................however there are people here who spout Sant Maat nonsense and call it Sikhi..........Some of the tactics they use: 1) Blackmail - I well tell God about you! 2) Fear - You will be dammed and smitted. 3) Karma - The chicken in that farm is Harbhajan's Grandad incarnated. 4) One Liners - Take one line out of Bani and change the meaning of the shabad. 5) Mistranslation - classic example Halaal, Bismil and Murdaar. 6) Sarcasm - yeah you must be a Muslim. 7) Stastics - well there's a 50% chance I am right and you are wrong. 8) Plain Stupidity - 2 + 2 = 5.....that is what my Sant Maat Baba told me. There are many more but take your pick. PS You can't read....its RanDIP not RanJIT

On the contrary you have missed the point: I am conviced that Vegetarianism and Meat eating is not part of Sikhi............you are reading into my words what you wish to read. Regards