Shadow

Too Many "NINDAKS" Nowadays!

That wasn't nindiya because the topic starter didn't pick on anyone in particular. The Topic starter is actually right because only Guru Sahib knows who the true sant is. No one was called a sant during Guru sahibs time like Baba Deep Singh, Bhai Gurdas Ji, Bhai Mani Singh, etc, so we shouldn't call anyone a sant now.

You should ask your panj pyare just to be sure. I think it is a bajjar kurehit.

Theres only one simple way to get rid of your lust- Chaupai sahib. Trust me- it works! The enemies mentioned in that bani are actually the 5 thieves because thats our only enemy. Sing Chaupai Sahib from your heart as if you're calling out to Guru Sahib and do it more than once. Try to do 5 a day and don't rush it, otherwise you gain no benefit from it. Good luck.

It is Naam Dhrirti that is uncommon, and in fact rejected by sampradas as required.

You contradict yourself vir ji. Naam dhrir and jugti of japping naam are different things. In the qoute of yours above you are talking about jugti, and using the existence of the jugti as proof of puraatan existence of the particular naam dhrir technique used by AKJ. Proof of a particular jugti existings does not equal proof of Naam dhrirti being puraataan and proper rahit of instilling Naam in the panth.

I really don't know why you're arguing about naam dhrir. No one here has gone against the other methods of doing swas swas simran. We didn't say other methods of swas swas simran are weaker. Even if mahapurakhs give the technique of swas swas simran, that doesn't mean they implanted naam inside. Only the panj pyare can give naam.

It's strange how somebody can write one thing and someone else can interpret it to be something else.

He never wrote that Mahapursh can replace the 5 Pyare. All Mahapursh encourage people to become Amritdhari and receive Nam di daat from Guru Sahib - that is the starting point. However, they can advise on which simran technique is better suited to different people because they can see the level that one's surti/birthi is at. Note, this refers to real Mahapursh. Think about it this way - if someone has reached the final stage, achieved jeevan mukti and their Atma is one with Parmatma, then they know what works to get to that stage. Admittedly, there are not many people like this these days.

The original Sikh Sampardas have unbroken lineages going back to Guru Sahib's time. 300 years is not that long - just 4 generations in some cases, and these techniques were passed down from one generation to the next. Not everything is written down, just like you won't find reference to Khandey Bhattey Da Amrit in Guru Sahib, etc. For example, within the Bhai Daya Singh Samparda, Sant Isher Singh Ji has written of a few of these jugtiyan.

Bhai Randhir Singh Ji preferred the AKJ technique (which is the same as the Namdhari one) and so the 5 Pyare in AKJ Amrit Sanchars teach that jugti. You use the same jugti, as do many other members of your jatha - is everyone who does this able to concentrate fully using this technique or do some complain that "mann nahi tikdha"? The reason why some are able to benefit from this jugti and others are not is because we are all at different levels - some have kamaiyee from previous janams, some don't etc. True Mahapursh can see which level we're at and advise accordingly. However, the Gurmantar is so powerful that even if you start at a level that doesn't suit you, if you have prem for Waheguru, you will still progress and get there eventually - it is Guru Ji's kirpa that is most important, if we have faith then Guru Ji will not let us go astray.

Anyway, talk is cheap, there's no point arguing over things like this when the time could be used for Simran.

I really do not feel comfortable talking about Naam Drir over the net. This is something highly sacred which is between the Abhilakhi and the Panj Pyaarey. When I received Naam from Panj and had the opportunity to the Naam Abhyiaas with the Panj it was one of the most memorable experiences of my life. Its a memory I will take to the grave with me. I just want to clear things up about Naam Drir.

I think some people on this thread are confusing the term Naam Drir with jugti. Naam Drir is not a technique. Naam Drir is the instilling of Naam by the Panj Pyaarey in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Naam Drir is planting the seed of Naam within the Gursikh. Again Naam Drir is not a technique instead it is the instilling of Gurmantar Naam. When the abhilakhi is blessed with Naam from the Panj Pyaarey the Panj Pyaarey teach you how to do Kamaee of Gurmantar Shabad. It is at this point Swas Swas Naam Simran is taught and this is a precise method to make the seed of Naam grow within the Abhilakhi. So when the Gurmantar is given by Panj Pyaarey the practice or reciting Gurmantar is taught by the Panj Pyaarey in the holy hazoori of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj.

Now the argument that states Mahapursh can give Naam technique has no Gurmat based backings. Naam is given only by Panj Pyaarey in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Panj Pyaarey can only give Naam and they are the only ones that can teach Abhilakhi to do Kamaee of Gurmantar at Amrit Sanchar.

Veer Ji you wrote "True Mahapursh can see which level we're at and advise accordingly"

This statement is somewhat misleading. How can we claim that a Mahapursh can see the level of an Abhilakhi and deny Panj Pyaarey of this power. If Panj Pyaarey do no have such power. Then do they have the power to turn water into Amrit. THe power of Panj Pyaarey is unlimited in the presence of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji they can bestow any power including the power of Naam. The gift of GUrmantar is an invaluable commoditie and nobody can take it away from you. Guru Sahib has made Panj Pyaarey the custodians of this priceless jewel which eventually opens up the gates of Dasam Dwaar. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji has given sole authority to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and Panj Pyaarey. Guru Sahib says where there are 5 rehatdhari Gursikhs then I am present. So why cant the Panj Pyaarey see the level of the abhilakhi? If there are 5 Rehatdhari Sikhs then there is no doubt that they can teach proper Kamaee of GuRmantar. Over and Over in Gurbani it says Naam is given by the Guru. If naam is given by the Guru why cant Guru Ji teach the abhilakhi how to recite Naam why is there a need for Mahapursh to teach these things. All authority lies in Guru Jis hands.

In regards to people believing original Sikh Sampardas did not commit to this particualr technique of Swas Swas Naam Simran taught by the Panj Pyaarey this is false. Bhai Mani Singh ( DamDami Taksal) who was in the presence of Guru Jis charan writes that Guru Sahib taught Mata Jito that method of Swas Swas Naam Simran which is the same method taught by Panj Pyaarey today.

You also stated "Bhai Randhir Singh Ji preferred the AKJ technique (which is the same as the Namdhari one) and so the 5 Pyare in AKJ Amrit Sanchars teach that jugti"

This is untrue . Swas Swas Naam Simran is not just a mere technique that Bhai Sahib preferred. Nor is it a technique that he invented. In his book about he mentios when he first took Amrit from the Panj Pyaarey some outsider came in the Amrit Sanchar and whispered a false Mantar. He later was blessed with Gurmantar from Panj Pyaarey and taught swas swas naam simran, so how can we claim that he invented this method. NaamDharis no longer give Naam Drir. They did in the past under the Panj Pyaarey. This was the old times when they had great leaders like Baba Ram SIngh Ji. Now they are a joke who have their own GUru or Mahapursh leader. Today they dont even believe in concept of Panj Pyaarey and Amrit. So how can they give Naam Drir?

Those people that complain that "mann nahi tikdha"? do so because they lose heart fast. Patience is needed when doing Naam Simran. For the swas to settle in each breath it takes time depending on the individual. It doesnt mean one should give up on the method. Does that mean if the mind is not intune during Amrit Vela or nitnem we should give up on these things. We need to take heart have faith in Guru Ji, and the rest will fall in its place. Swas Swas Naam Simran technique taught by Panj Pyaarey helps in the constant recitation of Naam Simran throughout the day. Whether one is working or sitting or talking to others this technique taught by Guru Sahib is very helpful in teaching one to do SImran with each breath even in the midst of doing worldly activities. Im not saying its the only technique, people are creative and they can come up with other ways.If these ways suit them then thats great. I am happy that they are doing Naam Simran, so I am not going to question these practices. Im not of the opinion that everyone must do Swas Swas Naam SImran. This method is taught by Guru Sahib Ji in which Naam is planted and then the method to teach abhilakhi how to make this seed ascend is a rare method indeed. If it is written on a persons forhead to learn this way then they alone will be blessed with this gift by Panj Pyaarey.

siqgur dwqY nwmu idVwieAw muiK msqik Bwg sBwgy ]1]

sathigur dhaathai naam dhirraaeiaa mukh masathak bhaag sabhaagae ||1||

The True Guru, the Giver, has implanted the Naam, the Name of the Lord, within me. A very blessed and fortunate destiny is recorded upon my forehead. ||1||

vaheguru wikid post!

the sound of contunious jaap of vaheguroo gurmantar!

breathe in = VAAAAHEEE

breathe out = gurrrrro

..if ur unsure ...the panj will help you

erm, no its not breath in breath out...you shouldn't be telling others the saas giraas method, only panj pyare can.

:rolleyes: She just did! Is this what you lot keep 'hidden' :rolleyes: Like Seriously? :rolleyes:

Stop bringing down NAAM to specific technique !!! <_<

If you have taken amrit, you should know only panj pyare can tell others the technique for saas giraas. Prabhjyot has the same saas giraas method as me, thats how i know she explained it wrong.

What is it that we should concentrate on while meditating?

the soundddddd....

Where should we concentrate; location of concentration?

no location.... just on Vahegurrrrooooo

The sound of what? How do you concentrate on Vaheguro, what does it look like?

the sound of contunious jaap of vaheguroo gurmantar!

breathe in = VAAAAHEEE

breathe out = gurrrrro

..if ur unsure ...the panj will help you

erm, no its not breath in breath out...you shouldn't be telling others the saas giraas method, only panj pyare can.

vahegurooo :D

It would be easier for you to learn punjabi and read the steeks than wait for a correct english translation to be released. All english translations are limited and allot of them skew the meanings, I dont know why english "steeks" have one line interpretations, whereas the punjabi steeks can ellaborate on one line for paragraphs.

Learning punjabi is easy and beneficial. you will build up a great vocabulary by reading and learning through a proper steek, the main issue is being able to read the punjabi word but not understanding complex steeks. Although the Gobind Sadan Steek is seen as incorrect by some people, it does however provide easy language and simple punjabi for begginers to start reading Sri Dasam Darbar in.

The Pritpal Bhindra english translation of Chritropakhyan is not that heritical, he clearly states he does not belief it to be the bani of Guru Gobind Singh and wishes to produce a book which will allow the reader to make up their own mind. Those with a disearning intellect will be able to look past the contraversy and extract the essence of the teachings.

I didn't say I can't read Punjabi. I just don't find it easy to understand.

I need translations

Parts of the English translation are really wrong. It's best to get the arths from a santhiya ustad.

How is it really wrong?

Download the Gurmukhi text from here: http://www.dasamgranth.org/institute/dasam/volume4.shtml and compare with the translations.

Too many to go through here, but e.g. in charitar 21, the translations say "Tale of Anoop Kaur", but the original doesn't mention any Anoop Kaur - it's "Noop Kuer" (sorry, can't write Gurmukhi here). That's just a small mistake, read the original side by side with the translation and see for yourself.

oh :| could you tell me any bigger mistakes please and are there other translations that I can read. Thank you.

Parts of the English translation are really wrong. It's best to get the arths from a santhiya ustad.

How is it really wrong?

You can read the bani online:

Volume 1:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/11885644/English...sam-Granth-Vol1

Volume 2:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13262753/English...sam-Granth-Vol2

:D

in CHRITROPAKHYAN it is written that women are 8 times smarter than men.

this is also shown in the shastar vidiya paentre.

It's true, they aren't just smarter, they've got more spiritual power as well.

even in indian mythology, Shiva says that even he himself will lose to Chandika. thus shwoing that the female shakti is more powerful than the male shakti.

Chandi is maya/shakti who created vishnu, shiva and bharma. As written in Dasam Granth, Shiva meditated on Chandi to get power.

So now I have to find a girl, get married, get her pregnant and then figure out how to teach Sikhi whilst the child is still in the womb.

Poor women, thats all they take birth for; to lay out hatched eggs. Bechariyan. The girl you'll be marrying will be as good as having a cow at home, even animals can have kids. If you are planning to get married then please do respect that woman. Somewhat if you can.

woah :o what are these people saying! I just missed that post. I can't believe how these people are talking. Its like all these so called "singhs" will just use their wives. :o People like you will be better off not getting married because it seems like you don't know the purpose of it!

Singh get married man....i cant wait until i be 21 am gonna get married on my birthday man... isn't kaam kicking in for you....GET MARRIED MAN.even guru gobind singh got married when he was 19

I can't believe I just read that. Just because Guru Gobind Singh Jee got married at the age of 19, it wasn't for any kaam reasons. Remember Guru Ji is unaffected by any of the 5 vices. You should feel ashamed for even puting Guru ji into your post while proudly mentioning your kaam problems. The whole point of sikhi is to get rid of kaam through naam and bani, just like what the OP is doing. Guru Gobind Singh jee is against kaam and Marriage is only there for us to improve our sikhi, not for us to enjoy ourselves through maya.

To OP, ignore what he said. Its not compulsory to get married. It's what you want.

fordcapri,

Stick to your Fairy tales sounds like they more to your level.

Seems like you don't have much of a spirituality. Of course shaheed singhs exists!

confusingh,

Shadow you are a complete and utter fool and nothing but...

Osama, you are being so unbelievably uncontextual your following a totally different religion!

MJ was and always will be the best artist in the history of music.... fact!

Thanks for slandering me, needed that Never knew I could be a fool for posting Gurbani lol

Best artist in the history of music??? lol Only keertan is the best....FACT!!!

lol you are confused

ijn gurmuiK hir AwrwiDAw iqn sMq jnw jYkwru ]

jin guramukh har aaraadhhiaa thin sa(n)th janaa jaikaar ||

Those Gurmukhs who worship and adore the Lord - hail to those Saintly beings!

nw iqsu Bwry prbqW Asmwn KhMdy]

naa this bhaarae parabathaa(n) asamaan kheha(n)dhae||

The sky-touching mountains also are not of much weight (than the ungrateful person).

nw iqsu Bwry kot gVH Gr bwr idsMdy]

naa this bhaarae kott garrh ghar baar dhisa(n)dhae||

The visible forts are also not as weighty as he (the ungrateful person) is.

nw iqsu Bwry swierW nd vwh vhMdy]

naa this bhaarae saaeiraa(n) nadh vaah veha(n)dhae||

Those oceans in which will the rivers merge are also not as heavy as he is.

nw iqsu Bwry qruvrW Pl suPl Plµdy]

naa this bhaarae tharu//aa(n) fal sufal fala(n)dhae||

The fruit laden trees are also not as heavy as he is.

nw iqsu Bwry jIA jMq Axgxq iPrMdy]

naa this bhaarae jeea ja(n)th anaganath fira(n)dhae||

And nor those innumerable creatures are as heavy as he his.

Bwry BueIN AikrqGx mMdI hU mMdy ]8]

bhaarae bhuee akirathaghan ma(n)dhee hoo ma(n)dhae ||8||

In fact the ungrateful person is burden on earth and he is evil of evils.(8)

OMG :6

Now I know why sikhsangat is for kids.

ijn hir ihrdY nwmu n bisE iqn mwq kIjY hir bWJw ]

jin har hiradhai naam n basiou thin maath keejai har baa(n)jhaa ||

The Lord's Name does not abide within their hearts - their mothers should have been sterile.

...

gurmuiK jnmu skwrQw mnmuK mUriq miq iknyhI]

guramukh janam sakaarathhaa manamukh moorath math kinaehee||

In this species, the life of a Gurmukh is successful but how is the thinking of Manmukh, the mind-orientated one? The thinking of the Manmukh is evil.

krqw purKu ivswir kY mwxs dI min Aws DryhI]

karathaa purakh visaar kai maanas dhee man aas dhharaehee||

Manmukh, forgetting the Lord goes on pinning his hopes upon men.

psU pryqhu burI huryhI ]3]

pasoo paraethahu buree huraehee ||3||

His body is worse than then animals and the ghosts.(3)

How can he rest in peace in hell?

SIKHSANGAT IS A JOKE!

AwiQ sYl nIc Gir hoie ]

aathh sail neech ghar hoe ||

If wealth visits the home of the lowliest clown,

AwiQ dyiK invY ijsu doie ]

aathh dhaekh nivai jis dhoe ||

seeing that wealth, all pay their respects to him.

AwiQ hoie qw mugDu isAwnw ]

aathh hoe thaa mugadhh siaanaa ||

Even an 1diot is thought of as clever, if he is rich.

Bgiq ibhUnw jgu baurwnw ]

bhagath bihoonaa jag bouraanaa ||

Without devotional worship, the world is insane.

Stop being a hater mate.

How do u know where MJ is going in the after-life? Nobody knows.

Wherever he may or may not be, I still wish for him to go there with peace.

I'm not being a hater. It just so silly when us sikhs suck up to those people.

Gurbani makes it clear who will have peace in the afterlife.

mnmuiK suKu n pweIAY gurmuiK suKu suBwnu ]3]

manamukh sukh n paaeeai guramukh sukh subhaan ||3||

The self-willed manmukhs find no peace, while the Gurmukhs are wondrously joyful. ||3||

You are being ridiculously narrow-minded.

I suppose you are willing to dismiss the massive amount that MJ has done in the way of humanitarian efforts?

Yes Gurbani is of course clear, but if you don't know the man, you shouldn't judge and assume his actions will lead to those consequences.

Like what someone else said on another MJ thread, you can discuss this on another forum which is not sikhi-related. Whatever the man has done, its got nothing to do with sikhi!

mnmuKw no hir dUir hY myrI ijMduVIey sB ibrQI Gwl gvweIAY rwm ]

manamukhaa no har dhoor hai maeree ji(n)dhurreeeae sabh birathhee ghaal gavaaeeai raam ||

The Lord is far away from the self-willed manmukhs, O my soul; all their efforts are in vain.

^^ well said. this is a SIKH forum!

AwiQ sYl nIc Gir hoie ]

aathh sail neech ghar hoe ||

If wealth visits the home of the lowliest clown,

AwiQ dyiK invY ijsu doie ]

aathh dhaekh nivai jis dhoe ||

seeing that wealth, all pay their respects to him.

AwiQ hoie qw mugDu isAwnw ]

aathh hoe thaa mugadhh siaanaa ||

Even an 1diot is thought of as clever, if he is rich.

Bgiq ibhUnw jgu baurwnw ]

bhagath bihoonaa jag bouraanaa ||

Without devotional worship, the world is insane.

How can he rest in peace in hell?

SIKHSANGAT IS A JOKE!

AwiQ sYl nIc Gir hoie ]

aathh sail neech ghar hoe ||

If wealth visits the home of the lowliest clown,

AwiQ dyiK invY ijsu doie ]

aathh dhaekh nivai jis dhoe ||

seeing that wealth, all pay their respects to him.

AwiQ hoie qw mugDu isAwnw ]

aathh hoe thaa mugadhh siaanaa ||

Even an 1diot is thought of as clever, if he is rich.

Bgiq ibhUnw jgu baurwnw ]

bhagath bihoonaa jag bouraanaa ||

Without devotional worship, the world is insane.

Stop being a hater mate.

How do u know where MJ is going in the after-life? Nobody knows.

Wherever he may or may not be, I still wish for him to go there with peace.

I'm not being a hater. It just so silly when us sikhs suck up to those people.

Gurbani makes it clear who will have peace in the afterlife.

mnmuiK suKu n pweIAY gurmuiK suKu suBwnu ]3]

manamukh sukh n paaeeai guramukh sukh subhaan ||3||

The self-willed manmukhs find no peace, while the Gurmukhs are wondrously joyful. ||3||

How can he rest in peace in hell?

SIKHSANGAT IS A JOKE!

AwiQ sYl nIc Gir hoie ]

aathh sail neech ghar hoe ||

If wealth visits the home of the lowliest clown,

AwiQ dyiK invY ijsu doie ]

aathh dhaekh nivai jis dhoe ||

seeing that wealth, all pay their respects to him.

AwiQ hoie qw mugDu isAwnw ]

aathh hoe thaa mugadhh siaanaa ||

Even an 1diot is thought of as clever, if he is rich.

Bgiq ibhUnw jgu baurwnw ]

bhagath bihoonaa jag bouraanaa ||

Without devotional worship, the world is insane.

loooool this is not bash sikh sangant .com

I think it should be called that. lol

Its only worth argueing about this if your going to sit throughout the whole rainsbai. If u just sit in keertan for 2 hours and then the rest of the night in the langer hall, then its pointless.

I don't think I would be saying that if I spend most of my time in the langar hall :6 duhh