buddasingh

I don’t believe bowing is matha tek. However if that is the only language association for you with respect to lowering your head, then you may not wish to bow. But I encourage trying to view matha tek in front of our Guru as something very different in a world where bowing has so many different connotations and was not a sikh invention. For a Sikh matha tek is certainly not limited to a generalized meaning for bowing already in existence prior to Sikhi. It has specific contextual association.

It is not just the physical act, but the intention and context behind the act, that carries meaning. Otherwise if you are lowering your head and bending forward when you are vacuuming, you matha tek to the dust on the floor? In kabaddi one matha teks to one’s opponent? Mechanics matha tek to engines all day long? etc.

It is a separate question whether a Sikh show bow in certain circumstances. On that point, I don’t believe all bowing across cultures and contexts equates to the respect we give to our Guru.

With respect to your suggestion that the judge represents the queen and therefore we ‘matha tek’ to an individual monarch. There may be an argument to not bow. However, I don’t believe the 'matha tek' association is quite accurate. Keep in mind that individuals have a right to walk out of a courtroom and then appeal the judge, often at multiple stages, saying the judge was wrong. The rule of law is above the judge and we may be bowing before a judge but as respect for the service of the rule of law. It is hardly equivalent to offering our head to our Guru.

Kudos to you bro for your attempt at a mature and measured response to my attack on your handle. Given that approach, I hope that you as my bro might reconsider yourself rather than have mods help you. I don’t really like the idea of mods having to hammer someone who may be open to learning… hope before hammer. I do believe a caste handle is something that is disgusting on a Sikh forum and that it has a negative effect on impressionable kids. There is no doubt that within punjabi culture there is racial segregation and belief in caste hierarchy by punjabi’s. Even if we fashionably call it ‘ethnicity’ cause we can’t disassociate ourselves from the hateful superiority daddy taught, the segregation and hierarchy is no different. With that very sad backdrop corrupting Sikhi, it makes no sense that someone would say, “it’s just my ethnicity”. Many modern day white supremacists say the same thing, ‘we’re just recognizing our ethnicity’ and they believe it just like punjabis.

If a black minority or the gora sikh minority identify themselves as such, all the power to them. In the context, they are marginalized by the majority and their identity is not one stemming from a sense of superiority and segregation, but one of resistance and overcoming.

And what did he mean by that?

Could it simply be that 'A relationship with the opposite gender does not equate to kam but rather is part of Sikhi'?

It could be read other ways as well. But look at his other work and it would be difficult to read it in a negative manner. Does this mean he's perfect. I'm quite certain he'd be the first person to tell you he's far from. But we should ensure feedback is intelligent and thought out as he's way ahead of most when it comes to insight.

Nice video above. I'd forgotten about that. The words and thoughts make an anthem worthy of study and contemplation.

BTW don't think anyone should 'turn a blind eye'. He should get feedback. But my impression from his online presence is he's wiser and more of a saint and soldier than most of us... therefore deserving of a little more benefit of the doubt with approach.

I don't know this guy and have no affiliation. I have seen excerpts of his book and his videos. There is a great deal of positive and also talent (not in this video necessarily) and given his other work i would think even he's aware of that with respect to this video. He's also likely accepting of the lack of talent around him that is attempting to appeal to masses. This video seems to suggest a positive message overall to likely a very young and simple target audience. The video seems to mock the very superficiality being portrayed at the beginning.

There are things that make me cringe at times but knowing his approach in other places puts a very different lens on him.

What is it that he actually said and what was the context? I would be surprised if he was insulting.

I can guess but I'm curious what it is that bothers people? I encourage you to view his other videos. Some cringe worthy stuff. However, much positive 'humble' insight in line with sikhi that overshadows the negative.

Kira

I agree with you completely. Kudos to you for your humility and maturity.

Balancing decency with truth, the best I can do is say Trump is an <banned word filter activated>.

Guru Gobind Singh Ji brought Sikhs together from different backgrounds. The modern day equivalent of 1699 would be from all corners of the globe; making a profound statement about being inclusive of races and cultures. Being a Sikh means discipline and courage in identity. It means to not let a blade near our Gurujis gift of sovereign crowns. It is not about race or physical origin. To defy this is to defy Guruji.

Last I looked in the mirror of collective Punjabis claiming Sikhi, we are either gutless, uneducated, or hypocrites or all of these. We may speak a language, dance bhangra and own mansions; but we live a slaves mentality, remaining uncultured and hypocritical.

Exception is those sehajdhari brothers and sisters who will vigorously defend Sikh identity of our Guruji, to the point of saying they may love Sikhi but are not technically Sikhs. They hold the potential of the panj piarey, and in front of them I am merely trying to be a Sikh also.

The rest, the vast majority of brownified or whitified, are a wasteland of confused hypocrites who bring a war of rot upon the very faith they claim to follow. That's my take on whitified.

Buddasingh Ji, your words and the work you do are inspiring. It reminds me that words alone mean nothing, but it's actions that are the most important. Must try harder.

Thanks for your kind feedback bro but I have to clarify. I rather be silent on the point, but that would be taking undue credit. I’m not certain what you are referring to but I did not mean to suggest I do any particular kind of work or seva. I've done paid work as well as volunteered with children in various capacities. The latter is nothing more than what the average person might do in self interested building their own c.v. So I'm in the same boat. Must try harder for me also.

buddasingh, on 05 Jul 2015 - 14:39, said:

Have you any theories about why this deviant behaviour exists?

My apologies for a delayed response. I have thoughts more than theories. Ultimately I suggest it is the collective failure of adult of all backgrounds. Personal responsibility also lies among all of us who silently support by not having the courage to speak against a world that chases material wealth through lies and stepping on others. We don’t have to protest on a stage, but unless we do something to make those around us uncomfortable, we are probably supporting a society built by and for liars and bullies. In that society many children will be vulnerable.

A contributor, scoping out for a moment, might be that generations ago “white” racism under the banner of Christians saving ‘savages’ with the modus operandi being pillaging, raping, and murdering, actually created impoverished societies that were robbed of civilized living including India. This could equally apply to any group set out to save and convert others based on their own conviction.

Another contributor may be that punjabi’s are really no different than large amounts of Indians and have learned to value getting an advantage at all costs, void of ethical consideration. If parents are lying, stealing, fraudulent (including the polished smile punjabi professional), what are they going to teach their kids? If we’re going to have the mentality of a gangster, but carry business cards, we should not be surprised if our kids then honor dads ethics and decide it's a better business decision to deal drugs and carry a gun than wear a suit.

The deviance is not difficult to see among huge segments of the adult punjabi community. Social ethics, societal consideration are completely lost on many punjabis as well as Indians. Even those with higher education and professional degrees remain hillbillies who seem to need to return to grade school for lessons in basic human considerations.

Another theory of contribution goes back to modern day mainstream/white/west. Ethics comes easy when they’ve set the rules and institutions to continue colonial privilege. Where the institution is rigged for the deviant privileged, the deviant seems civilized. The racist who calls the minority a name is possibly a threat. But the real gig is the polished deviant. The politicians, professors, doctors, lawyers and professionals and their entitled attitudes that remain a virus that is intent on maintaining a stranglehold on privilege. We know their silent talk better than they do. A societal divide remains between societies and cultures that live to thrive and those that live to survive. Which children are going to have less behavioral issues?

So my theory is that deviant behavior in children arises from deviant adults from all backgrounds. The former should be understood, the latter stomped out. The responsibility and blame lies with not ‘the other’ but each one of us to do more to care for our neighbors whether they be across the street or across the globe.

I know this is a joke and I do see the humor in it. So not a reply to you MSingh, but I'll use it to make a point.

Yes THESE children. There is no better, no higher, no lower. Mistakes or deviations during childhood deserve a far greater tolerance. We often need to study not the child's failures but usually our own interaction. Children are part of a community, a village and we are all entrusted with their care as adults. We can choose to use power over deviants which may make us greater deviants or we can choose to be humans who use our humanity to empower others.

Guru Gobind SIngh Ji did not use his sword to threaten or force anyone to join the Khalsa. He asked for extreme humility and empowered. And to those he bowed and asked to be empowered. That is the most amazing lesson in respect, loyalty, and discipline.

Nicely put Ranjeet but this is pure market forces not some conspiracy, this is purely what is popular and what sells....

Who needs a conspiracy? When hate is engrained it comes naturally with a kind smile, curiosity, and assumptions. Shame on 'white' male media for continuing to 'rescue' minority women ad nauseum in their fantasies.

What sells is limited to what is selling.

Ranjeet and Eduardo you are exceptions who attempt to understand beyond the surface. In general there remains massive ignorance amongst both mainstream and punjabis.

...OR everything else describable is actually nonsense.

Having said that, if one makes a claim of a spiritual experience, i am not concerned to determine whether they actually had a spiritual, neurological, psychiatric or some other pathological experience.

To me if they are actively living the experience of naam japna, kirat karo, vand chakko, they are living and having a spiritual experience.

Awareness of Waheguru is something to give, not something to receive.

Have you had a religious experience?

Has anyone else on this forum ever had a religious experience?

If you have could you describe it?

Think I've come close when listening to metallica's 'enter sandman' on the third repeat.

how can one reply to this arguement:

"If a mystic admits that the object of his vision is something which cannot be described, then he must also admit that he is bound to talk nonesense when he describes it." - Ayer

...OR everything else describable is actually nonsense.

Hellios

Thanks for the update. Exchange experiences can be great learning adventures but even the best ones can also very stressful.

Jamie should have been provided with people whom he can contact for challenges.

Nonetheless, let him know that you or he can ask questions here. He will be supported. How long is he there? Are you much older than him?

“Converts”. Is that what panj piare were? They gave their heads. The first to stand up and come forward? Our Guruji bowed before them. Were they “our” people? They were converts. What does that make the rest of us? Think about that for a moment.

Surely the suggestion is not that Guru Gobind Singh Ji undermined Sikh “ethnicity” at the outset? In fact, that day in 1699 is a core of Sikh ethnicity.

What does that make any who make a claim to being proud “ethnic” punjabi Sikhs? That makes them as people who challenge Guru Gobind Singh Ji with our CASTE/RACE/ETHINIC ridden mentality.

Sikhs share a common humanity. A people who see commonality as a social spiritual human experience beyond race, geography, or language. How can ethnicity get greater than a group of people who believe in a human ethnicity? Not only is that Ethnicity, it is the richest Ethnicity in the world.

Sikh punjabis are trying hard and having a massive struggle with understanding the preservation and promotion of Sikh culture. It’s a positive thing, absolutely. However, despite many who take the lead sincerely, the core drive of the masses behind that preservation is Punjabi CASTEIST, RACIST mindsets.

We may be well intentioned, but that racism is the same as the vibrant accepted western racism of decades past. We started absorbing our racism and castesim, like the rest of India, when we learned to walk and talk.

Therefore getting rid of our racism/casteism it is not a mere mental decision. A deep, deep reflection and serious challenge to our make up and our core beliefs about “cultural” identity over time is required.

The very fact that Sikhi has not already spread through the world is a black mark on us as ethnic punjabi’s who have turned Sikhi into a caste birth right. Amongst us there are Sikh warriors who walk the walk of 1699. The bulk of us punjabi’s, perhaps less on this forum, are just lighter versions of deras, fake babas, cults, sects who point to those crazier, so we feel sane and "sikh".

If you are a proponent of “practical” why do you wear clothes, beyond your speedo, on hot humid shady days of summer? You are a follower of the overclothed. You won't get arrested if you simply walk around in your speedo. Is that practical? Attempt to answer this question. Part of that answer may begin to enlighten you. We can go further down that road if needed, but it’s your turn to explain and tell us what you think.

Eduardo

Most of the countries you mention are listed as well as tier 1 countries of concern: http://www.uscirf.gov/all-countries/countries-of-particular-concern-tier-1

How about Saudi, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Bangladesh, Myanmar, North Korea, The north African Islamic countries, Central African replublic, China, Israel (if you are a Muslim), Pakistan, etc etc.

Their list doesn't seem right to me, more like a political statement of some sort.

This is purely for the Democrats to gain the Sikh(Punjabi) vote. It's even worse sense you only really get 2 choices in America: The Evangelicals or the Corrupt Party. It's good to see a rise in 3rd parties like Libertarians.

I respect someone who wishes to distance themselves from alcohol. Kudos to your intelligent choice with alcohol. Great potential with your independent thinking.

However, there is something troubling about the post. I’m not sure which is worse, his alcohol hands or your entitled hands. You want clean hands, come with clean hands.

The following may help you but it is directed at all of us as a collective as we’re largely in the same boat. Other debates aside, being an adult and parents doing all of our laundry and cooking is a concern. Our culture permits young adults to carry on with school and therefore abdicate adult responsibilities. This results in boys (it’s usually males) being handed off from mom to marriage and ending up with two mothers during an extended adolescence. With the poor wife married to a boy.

Some types of familial division and sharing of labour might have worked when we were helping in the fields or with the family business. But uni is a privilege. Start doing your own laundry and start helping with the cooking. School grades make better boys and girls. Responsibility and accountability make successful men and women. If you move out you will die of hunger and kill others with stinky clothes.

Start with the above humility in action toward a hard working dad. Respect his love to understand his failure. Only after that, talk to your dad to come to a happy medium about what is acceptable for both of you with respect to the alcohol.

My honest opinion ?

I don't like it.

Now, let me tell you why. With your hand cover everything from the bridge of her nose downwards. With just the eyebrows visible it is clear that you would never have drawn a 'Singh' with such thin and shaped eyebrows. From your drawing.....and from looking at the eyebrows alone....it is clear that, subconsciously, your drawing thought process has been influenced by western ideals of female sexuality. I suggest you go back to the drawing board and try again.

Subconscious western ideals of female sexuality??

You have quite the attentive eye bro. I saw determination, did not even see eyebrows. Are you sure they are not your own “western” subconscious ideals?

You have some point somewhere in there and I commend you for going beyond superficial and being honest. But dig a layer deeper yet and you'll find another layer of honesty. One that is to be applied to appreciation and communication when someone is brave enough to share their art.

Cmon bro. I toss it your way cause it appears you're way smarter than most and I’m giving the artist some support for his/her obvious skills. Apart from this, you do have a point.

And “western sexuality” is some loaded words. I would not call it "western". That is just reverse orientalism. That’s not something that would not come from sikhs, but from a hindu fundamentalist who wants to blow up teddy bears on valentines.

What did you want him to do, highlight indian ideals of chest hugging suits rather than eyebrows? Somehow they are modest if brown women wear them? Lets just respect the dignity and power of eastern and western the same.

I know you meant it in a very different manner but to conjure the words “western sexuality” in reference to a woman as a slight is not a great choice when Indian men including majority of punjabis are self stimulated delusional b****ds in heat when it comes to their minds and the concept of “western sexuality”. Maybe I need to dig a layer deeper with my honesty, but I’ll take my chances. No different than you Jagsaw, which is why I admire your edge.

So bro please be more western and eastern, and kinder to artists, but continue to keep us honest and awake with your valid points.