Genius

You either are Paul Grewal or he gave you that information. That is lie. I never heard of anyone getting murdered in Edmonton in the last week. You Singh Sabha Communists talk about "Guru de gun Dharo" and that's all you have to do. Then you have Paul Grewal's so called "Sikh" wife who swears and insults fellow Sikhs all the time in the Darbar in front of Guru Maharaj. Oh yeah that doesn't matter, to you communists Guru Granth Sahib is nothing but a "rule book." You know, every time there is a noise for the rat, it thinks it's a cat around the corner. Every time there is police chopper in the air, every drug dealer thinks that the police are looking for him. So I guess you must be scared of a Gursikh named above, and then everybody to you everywhere looks and sounds like that Gursikh. I never said that a person was murdered. What I said was that an attendee to the Dasam Granth seminar was brutally and physically assaulted with the intention to murder, for questioning the Dasam Granthi dudes about their lack of knowledge about Dasam Granth and its contents. A case is pending in Edmonton, Alberta Police. You call them communists and they label you RSS. I don't know what your labelling rationale is about them but I am very clear about their labelling rationale. RSS promotes Dasam Granth in a big way so does your group. They also preach and practice the same Brahaminnical rituals that you follow in the guise of Sikhi. Hence, you have so much common with RSS. I think rather than you worrying about who I am you should be arranging the 'bhog' ceremony of your leader, Rulda Singh, RSS Punjab Head, who was gunned down in Punjab about a week ago. By the way if you need information and updates relating to any seminars being held by Singh Sabha International, then simply contact Gurcharan Singh Jeonwala or their local organizers and they will let you know everything I stated here.

If true, this is regrettable. I encourage you to ascertain the details of the matter. I would caution you against inferring that the Dasam Granth is invalid due to the zealotry of its supporters. It should be noted that supporters of Guru Granth Sahib (that sounds weird, sorry) are similarly zealous. For example, you may have heard that some people killed Seonwala after he wrote in the Spokesman that Guru Granth Sahib didn't receive the Gurgaddi. (By that token, "Guru" Granth Sahib is a misnomer. Should we say "Bhai" Granth Sahib ji instead?) Well click on the link below to the Edmonton Police website and call the number and ask about the details of the case registered and the incident relating to a local Realtor named Kaul Toor the very next Monday evening after the Guru Manyo Granth seminar was held. Kaul was the one who had asked questions to the Dasam Granthi 'Sikhs' protesting outside the seminar about the contents of Dasam Granth that aggravated them. He was set up in an empty house for showing and had the drug dealer that was already hiding inside, hit him on the head multiple times with baseball bat with the intention of killing. However, he managed to escape and the police arrived within few minutes. Kaul was taken to emergency bleeding profusely but survived. There is a Canada wide arrest warrant issued for the guy's arrest. http://www.edmontonpolice.ca/ Try the south east side division, where I believe the seminar was held.

Admin Note: 2nd Warning given. Under Moderation until further notice.

Do so called Mahanpursh know more than Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji? Did Guru Gobind Singh ji know more than these so called mahanpursh and installed Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji as the only Guru and guide for all beings and not even mention about 'his' own so called 'Dasam Granth'. Don't tell me that Baba Thakur Singh was also one of these Mahanpursh who LIED to Sikhs all over the world for nearly 21 years about Baba Jarnail Singh was alive. Admin: Note: First Warning given. Read Forum Rules & Guidlines, section: Dasam Granth Sahib & Dis-respecting sikh saints.

Discussions with whom? They are not amritdharis, do not do nitnem, take liquour, do not believe in naam simran etc etc. Is prof. Darshan Singh not Amritdhari? He is ex-Jathedar of Akal Takhat. He does do his Nitnem. He does not drink. As a matter of fact he preaches against it using Gurbani. One group's naam simran definition is different from another's. They do not know when was Dasam granth written? I don't believe anybody does. Do not know when it was compiled. I don't believe anybody does this either. Do not know what message it gives. I think that is what the main point of contention between pro and anti groups. Do not have any knowldge of what is the meaning of metaphors, symbolism and myths that are extensively used in Dasam granth. I think Prof. Darshan Singh with nearly 64 years in Gurbani knowledge would be a better candidate on that subject than any of younger kids debating on it on the internet. Any stupid may raise such doubts on scriptures sitting in their bed rooms. When people refer to others as stupid simply because their views are different or are of challenging nature, this displays both ignorance and ego, not the qualities of a Sikh. Sikhs have been instructed by a matta of akal takhat not to have any dialogue with these gurnindaks. There is an edict to answer these fools' questions to promote Dasam Granth then who are these intellectuals are trying to reply to. Isn't that a debate going on where the environment gets emotionally charged and nothing ever good comes out that? Why not have the same thing in private. Do you obey akal takhat? I do believe in the authority of Akal Takhat but not in the character of the individual currently presiding over it. All jathedars are simply political puppets and continuously fighting among themselves over petty issues exhibiting their egos and lack of knowledge. if so why are you advising us to have dialogue with a bunch of fools. There is an edict to answer these fools' questions to promote Dasam Granth then who are these intellectuals are trying to reply to. Isn't that a debate going on where the environment gets emotionally charged and nothing ever good comes out that? Why not have the same thing in private, which is what I have been advising. Read Fw: Boycott::Gurcharan Singh Jeeonwala Coming to Bay Area on August 22nd Saturday (Original Message) Gurcharan Permalink he is barred fromGurudwaras by an edict from akal takhat. There is an advisory (Sandesh) issued by Akal Takhat not let this individual speak from a Gurghar stage. That is NOT the same as being banned from a Gurughar, which is what you implied in your comments. He collects a few goonda brigade and goes to pizza parlour and then uses a goonda's languge to spread hatred about tenth amster's scripture. I called the pizza parlour franchise owner and headquarters and they both confirmed that there was NO discussion, seminar or information session ever held at any of their locations. The venue was voluntarily shifted to another larger location once the speakers became aware of the nature of location. I hope you are a man (Sikh) enough to apologize for spreading misinformation about above two points. Guru ji defined this as Nindya. Latest that these goondas have started spredaing hatred for SGGS also. I just got hold of a an audio recording of their seminars from somewhere in Canada and all they talk about is how the pro Dasam Granth group justifies Charitro Pkhyan`s erotic contents by labelling some shabads of SGGS as erotic or sexually expletive in nature. They are actually proving to their audience that even those shabads in SGGS are not as being portrayed by pro Dasam Granth group.

When you go there you simply show them your foreign passport to prove you are NRI. These rooms were supposed to be free but they will ask you to pay Rs300 to Rs500 per day along with a damage deposit. It is fairly new five story building with AC and hot water facilities. However, hot water system normally doesn't work. There is a five person elevator. Try getting a room on the 5th floor facing Darbar Sahib. There are bedrooms with two large beds available at the same rate. But cleanness is almost non-existent. One more important thing, even if there are no more power cuts, they simply walk on to your floor and switch your power supply off from the main control box on your floor. And all you have to do is you open the box and flip your room switch back on and you have your power supply back. AC system is very good. There were some fire incidents due to shady electrical work. So don't get the rooms with burnt out windows on the main floor right behind the reception counter.

I still advise that the best way to handle these guys is to have a discussion with them face to face in a civilized manner. Let their so called experts answer your questions and get your so called experts to answer their questions. Have it recorded and present this to general public and let them decide for themselves what is the truth.

This is all a lie. They preach atheism whereever they have presence. They have practically no presence in PUnjab. Their presence is some missionary schools who preach atheism. Gurcharan Jeonwala is a confirmed liar and an atheist. I thought you were to discuss Dasam granth here. now you are widenning the field. It is not possible to have discussion on multiple subjects simultaneously. Joginder spokesman was a leading opponent of Dasam granth to start with. Now he has started coming out of closet and is casting doubts on whole sikh philosophy. He is writing against SGGS also.You have no shame to contradict what i wrote above. It is amazing that you are ignoring it completely. Are you a sikh even. Have you understood SGGS ji completely. Then tell us what is meant by naam simran?Where in SGGS is written there is no soul and no incarnation.Please reply. Request To moderator: Singh sabha is a heretic body who are old communists and who are operating in the garb of sikhism. They do not believe that sikhs need to ahev hair. I will request that the link provided by genius should be removed as their philosophy is anti sikh. I was not here to discuss Dasam Granth or widen any `fields of discussion`. I simply listed what I have learned reading and listening to both sides. How can you have a discussion about something when even before you know the other party's views, you are ready to declare them guilty without a charge? Seems to me you simply want to have this forum to represent one group's views and call that as an impartial discussion. Is that going to further the cause of Sikhism? May be you should read Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and find out how many times the word `Veechar`is listed in various forms and what it means. Then calmly contemplate on the Shabad Gurbani and understand what Guru ji trying to tell us all ! Why cry for removing the link. Let people visit their website, read what they have to say, compare your side views against their, and make an informed decision. You do have that right here in Western Educated & Civilized society. Don't you!

Just for illustration purpose see if this makes sense;One person is to be tried for waging a campaign against the free distribution of sexually offensive materials to naive people. However, when the case reaches the highest court, out of five judges, two are convicted rapists, two are guilty of sexual assault, and one is simple child molester. What you think their decision will be !

First of all I have read Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and only based on the concept of Sidh Gost bani had proposed that it is more fruitful to ask these guys questions and explain to them why you guys believe that Dasam Granth could be Dasam Patshah bani. I get the feeling that hardliners in Sikh faith are actually afraid to sit down and discuss this issue because it will be very difficult to justify quite a major part of this Dasam Granth to have been written by Dasam Patshah. I formed this opinion not on somebody else`s analysis given to me but the fact that I have read both Granths and compared the views & teachings presented in them. I beleive that Dasam Granth lessons do contradict and at major points are in direct opposition to the teachings of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. We all tend to take positions based on somebody else`s analysis presented to us rather than investing time and analysing the contents ourselves. Let`s see how neutral this website is to having an open discussion about letting people in community have a constructive dialogue rather than using back stabbing such as the one proposed by calling somebody`s franchise headquarters. Wouldn`t it make more sense to spend time and effort to have an online live debate with these guys and let people form their opinions. You guys and I am not the Jathedars of the community. Nobody has ever been able to present anything negative from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and break people away from Sikhism. But there are so many parts that people need answers for from Dasam Granth. Lets not use fear tactics such as Kala Afghana etc. to try to scare people away from a constructive dialogue. You don`t throw your family memebrs out of the house and start swearing at them if their opinions are not in agreement with yours. We live in North America and everybody has the right to present their views freely.

Why are we so afraid of somebody presenting information to sikh masses about Dasam Granth. If they are opposing its contents and you support it, then why not hold seminars presenting both sides of the coin. I think we should give more credit to Sikh masses for their intellect than what we give them today. How long are we going to keep acting as mommies and daddies for everybody. Never be scared of listening to your opposing party's views. If you feel you are right then counter them with True Gurbani of Guru Granth Sahib and let Sikhs in general decide for themselves. Arguing in public and over radios and TV channels simply presents the Sikh community in a negative manner to general public worldwide. I don't know if discussion ever killed anybody. Arguing certainly has. News has been filtering out of some similar Canadian seminars where all guys supporting Dasam Granth had to face embarrasment by admitting to questioning public that none of them had actually read the Dasam Granth. Yet they continued supporting it. So get some educated and learned guys who have actually read Dasam Granth to present opposition this time, if that is your intention. Again my suggestion to you is to hold a civilized discussion behind closed doors with solid ground rules based on Bani of Guru Granth Sahib ji.