bsgill

good news!!

That's a fair point, However, you've dodged my question. I asked whether Bhai Sahib's bachan's are indicative of their high awastha, most of Bhai Sahib's deewan's centre around sikh ithiaas, dharna's and some simran. You question my respect for Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa - well they're awastha was shown by their understanding of bani - ability to do viyakhya of chaldi bani - and their nitnemi jeevan. Furthermore - my dad spent some (not a lot) of time with Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale at darbar sahib, he tells me of thier 'noor', aura, persona and presence! All these were indications of thier high awastha. Furthermore thier bachans also indicated thier awastha - comments like "Physical death I do not fear, but death of the conscience is a sure death" do not get uttered by your average joe. Bhaaji, this statement doesn't hold up. Sangat doesn't disrespect learned pracharaks! People in the UK have regular rehansabahi's and you talk about not listening to bani for 10 minutes! LOL! How man 25 year old do I know with Gurmat knowledge? Quite a few actually - You'll find people abroad are not as manmukh as people in india/punjab. Whilst Bhai Ranjit Singh has been on "tour" in the UK, I had the privilege to spend some time with him. I have seen Bhai Sahib's preparations for deewan's take place in thier car - last minute catching up of the day's topics. Again nothing wrong with this. But Bhai Sahib's knowledge is gained through research and literature, just like any other pracharak. I'm sorry I made no such comments - you have me confused with someone else. Please don't fabricate nonsense! Personally no - I haven't spent a night at thier dera. I am however close (family friend) to a few members of thier jatha who HAVE and STILL do spend time with them, going on tours to america / england. Trust me, their (members of the jatha - not Bhai Ranjit Singh) antics are not worth discussing - that WOULD be nindeya and I'm not going to elaborate on that. I fail to see how they can be in the sharan and sangat of a learned "mahapurakh" and be so childish themselves! I am not talking negatively about Bhai Ranjit Singh - He is truly doing brilliant prachaar!! Please re-read my posts, I've always apologised if I've come across negatively and have stated my views are my own. Again - why are you comparing apples to oranges? Dhadhi's also don't have 100's of 1000's of "followers" who address them as "sant"... but this is besides the point. How many dhadhi's can you remember who attained "sant" "mahapurakh" "bramhgyani" awastha? - Poems and Kachi bani will only take you so far - je paar langhna hai ta naam da hi sahara laina paina. Re-read my post I said something along these lines when I explained what "sant" "bramhgiyani" "mahapurrakh" is. These awastha's mean one see's god in god's creation! So what's your point? A high awastha is required to see saintliness in god's creation... Which is why Bhagat Naam Dev Ji saw god. Did the dog see god in Bhagat Naam Dev Ji? Moreover, Are you saying that the majority of the common folks or lets say general public's awastha is high enough that they see mahapurakh/sant in Bhai Ranjit Singh? - I hope you can see the point I'm raising. Personally I couldn't care less - Like I said before - today it's one person in 5 years time it'll be someone else! Akaalpurakh is the ONLY entity we are to worship - we all strive to enter akaalpurakh's domain! Our guru's, bhagats, all enlightened beings have access to this domain! What is the word Guru? It means teacher. Who can teach? Someone who has knowledge. Our guru's had access akaalpurakh - They proved this by scribing his word in the form of Gurbani. THATs Why we call them guru's, They PROVED their status! - But What's your point?! What does this have to do with anything? - I have met him in 2006/2007/2008. Theek hai veer ji, I'm a moorakh. Which is why I said, If I am wrong - please do help lead me on the right path. I would however request that you re-read my previous post and actually resolve my queries rather than raising baseless points which provide no gurmat gyaan at all! Although I didn't appreciate your cunning tactics where you question my respect for Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa - Keep to the topic we're discussing, don't bring in other issues such as Dasam Granth and so on! By your method we might as well as bring in discussions about Quantum Computing too! Gurfateh! Firstly, I would ask you to read all my posts again as you keep asking the same questions just by rewording them, when they have already been answered. You say that I have dogded your question, but this is what you asked me: I will repeat myself again. The word Sant is made up of three different words put together: S for simran, N for nimurta and T for Tiyaag. I see all three in Sant Dhadrianwale along with bani and bana which is my reason for calling them by the title Sant. About evidence, I have already told you that a real gursikh does not show off with his kuramats as this is against sikhi and our Gurus have told us not to do so. What kind of evidence do you want, supernatural powers shown in the middle of one of their diwans?? What part of this do you not get?? I have met thousands of people who have spent one or two days with Sant Ji. My father lived with them, along with Sant Kartar Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale, Shaheed Bhai Amrik Singh Ji, Baba Thakur Singh Ji, Shaheed Bhai Swarn Singh Ji and the rest of the shaheeds of 84, my father and Sant Kartar Singh Ji also used to go and meet Bhai Randhir Singh Ji at their pind. As you say you will call Bhindranwale by the name Sant as your father told you of their noor, aura and personal presence and he only 'spent some (not alot) of time with them, I would like to question you, wouldn't the person who has lived with both Bhindranwale and Dhadrianwale (from the very beginning) know more about the jiwanies and their avastha?? Maharaj says' brahamgiani ki ghat brahamgiani janeah' People like us cannot understand easily as we lack sharda. Also, you say that Sant Bhindranwale did viakhiya of gurbani, listen to their speeches they also tell ithiaas. And, I think you need to listen to Dhadrianwale’s diwans more carefully as they explain both gurbani and ithiaas. Ithiaas and gurbani are put together to make it easeir for us people to understand.<BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"> You do not agree with me that Sant Dhadrianwale are able to control sangat. You say that Raensabhais show this. I would like to tell you that when we go to reansabhai’s MOST of us comes in coaches and therefore leave together when the coach goes back. What I am saying is that Sant Dhadrianwale’s have up to 2-3 diwans everyday and the gathering is still the same, at raensabhais, we organise them and arrange for coaches, but we have to organise for that, sangat at diwans comes without any transport preparations. I have used this example to explain to you that Sant Dhadrianwale’s satkar is different to that of other parcharaks. At Sant Dhadrianwale’s diwans sangat comes hours early so that they can get a desent place to sit, again reflecting the difference between them and others. Agree with me or not but we all know the truth. I did not say that sangat disrespects parcharaks. I said that the satkar that Sant Dhadrianwale get is different to other parcharaks and the sangat knows this. I did not say that 20/25 year olds don't have gurmat knowledge; I said that it is not to the level that the sangat sees in Sant Dhadrianwale. Again, this is shown through the satkar that they get wherever they go. Please do not try to ignore what I am saying and cover it up by saying that I am “dodging” your question to why I believe Sant Dhadrianwale are a true Sant. Please do not make up your own stories. They do not plan diwans, they are done on the stage and this I have seen with my own eyes whilst travelling to and from diwans, and singhs of their jatha know this. And their giaan comes to them from Akaal Purakh, not research and literature as they have not been taught how to do parchaar. You do not know Sant Ji personally, so how can you say what they do in their own time (gain knowledge through literature??) <BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">You said they sing 'kachi' bani. How does the amount of following somebody has, make their words bani?? Bani is what has come from the mouth of Gurus. If a dhadhi was to get "100's of 1000's of followers", this would not change their kavta into 'kachi bani'. And what is wrong with having 100’s and 1000’s of followers who address them as Sant?? People don’t do this WITHOUT reason. You quoted me on the following: Gurbani says 'ghat ghat meah har joo buseah' bhugat naam dev Ji saw God in a dog, you can find this out by reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, bhagat bani. (If you believe that Bhughuts (sants) exist). Bhugat Nam Dev Ji saw God out of a dog, we are not even able to see Sant through our own parcharak. I used this to explain to you why sangat calls Dhadrianwale by the title Sant. Read it again and it will make sense. Do you need Sants to show their avastha by 'scribing' their own bani?? This would be against what sikhi teaches us so please do not make such manmukh comments. I think you might be a follower of people like ‘paniara wale’ who create their own stuff and call it ‘bani’. Sikhi tells us not to create our own granths, we have been told to see Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our Guru. You did not answer my question. I asked you where, when, what time/date did you meet Sant Dhadrianwale. You do not want to answer this question and I will not make you, but then anyone can say that they have met them and start making up similar stories as you. After looking at the kind of stuff you are writing, I have noticed that your stories are made up and lack truth and I ask you to not do such as lieing is against sikhi (especially if it is being done against such high mahapurakhs). I would like to ask you where in gurbani does it say that you should not touch the feet of a gursikh? Where does it say that a mahapurash should show his aura before the sangat can call him ‘Sant’? Where does it say that a gursikh cannot sing the meanings of gurbani (Dharna), so that it is explained to the sangat? My argument is backed up by gurbani, therefore reflecting the truth it has in it. Again, you will not understand in the way I am explaining to you. I cannot explain to the person who does not understand from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Bani says, 'moorakhai naal n lujheeai' (Don't argue with fools) If you have any more questions, read back through my posts as I feel it is wasting time to explain to people who do not understand from Dhan Dhan Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Don’t reword questions and tell me that I havent answered what you are asking, just re-read my posts carefully with sharda and piar for sikhi and our parcharaks as this will help you through the situation you are in.

You have asked me why I believe Sant Dhadrianwale are a true Sant, my answer is that I see in them bana and bani at such a level hard to see in any other kathakar, kirtani and parcharak. No one can change anybody's views, if you do not want to say 'Sant' to them I am not forcing you to do so. But my view on this will not be changed. You will only see others depending on your state of mind. Gurbani says a thief sees everybody else as a thief, a saadh sees every other like a saadh. ‘thuradhae ko thuradhaa milai ouddathae ko ouddathaa’ | That which flows, mingles with that which flows; that which blows, mingles with that which blows. ‘jeevathae ko jeevathaa milai mooeae ko mooaa’ The living mingle with the living, and the dead mingle with the dead. The word 'Sant' is made up of three words. S for simran, N for nimurta and T for Tiyaag. I see all three in Sant Dhadrianwale and so does the sangat. This is why they have been called Sant from a very young age, are called Sant and will forever do so. People like you hesitate to call even Sant Jarnail Singh Ji by the name ‘Sant’. Secondly you say there is no aura in them, I will question you is this not an aura: how many 20/25 year olds have YOU seen with the amount of knowledge on gurbani that Sant Ji lectures in their diwans, or how many do you know that have the power to make sangat sit down for hours on end as Sant Ji do in their diwans, most sangat doesn't listen to parcharaks for 10minutes. You say about poor and that Sant Dhadrianwale should help them. I don't think people like me and you would have ever carried out the wedding of even 2 poor people and at Parmeshardwar Sant Ji do thousands on end as well as help others. If we did this we'd probably only help our friends and relatives and make sure the whole world knows about it. I would like to question you, have you ever stayed one whole day/night at Parmeshardwar and seen what time they get up and when they go sleep, how their life is structured??? If the answer to this is no, you do not have the right to talk negatively about them. You say "Think of this - why do we read bani? Because we know it is a proven way to align one's mind to be able to access the domain of akaalpurakh. Such is the power of bani!.. Now if I took some poem/song or other writings which may/may not have been written by someone who has attained true spirituality and had 100's of thousands of people recite them, would that be doing them the same good as Gurbani? - personally I believe not - yes I don't dispute such 'kachi bani' may help in some way... it cannot be compared to the power of Dhur Ki Baani - or naam simran. Bhai Sahib re-iterates ithiaas, saakhi's and engages sangat in some simran - which of Bhai Sahib's bachan's are indicative of Bhai Sahib's high awastha? - What am I failing to see?" Here I would like to tell you that the word 'kachi bani' has been used by Guru sahibans because people like Prithi Chand started twisting certain shabads and saying that it was the bani of Maharaj. Dharnas have been used from many years to explain Gurbani just like kathavchaks use their own words to explain without singing. I would like to question you what do dhadi's sing? kachi bani? no they sing their own poems to explain the meanings of gurbani to the sangat, dhadhi vaars are not kachi baani. When we do kirtan, half the sangat sitting infront does not know what is being said, as it is not explained, therefore Dharnas make it easy to know what Guru Ji says. Dharnas are not bani, Gurbani is what the Gurus have said.<BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"> We hesitate from calling them Sant, but gurbani calls them rabh: 'sant raam meah bhedh kish nahi'<BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"> Also, Gurbani says 'ghat ghat meah har joo buseah' bhugat naam dev Ji saw God in a dog, you can find this out by reading Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, bhagat bani. (If you believe that Bhughuts (sants) exist). Bhugat Nam Dev Ji saw God out of a dog, we are not even able to see Sant through our own parcharak. And Gurus are not sants, Gurus make sants. There have been many people before us so why do we call Guru Ji Guru, why not call them Sant Gobind Singh Ji??? Why don’t you call them Sant. I would like to ask you, where, when, what time/date did you meet Sant Dhadrianwale and what was your conversation. Please answer this question. I do not have time to explain to people like you who pick out stuff to make it a big issue. Maharaj says 'moorakh gant pavai muhi maar' (The fool establishes his bonds only when he is slapped in the face). You will not understand in the way I am explaining to you. I cannot explain to the person who does not understand from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Bani says, 'moorakhai naal n lujheeai' (Don't argue with fools)

Gurfateh jio, I don't dispute that you're closer to Bhai Ranjit Singh, But Gurbani gives us the 'kasvati' (scale) to see what a true sant is like by nature - That kasvati is the root of my personal view. The 3/4 times I have exchanged bachan with Bhai Sahib, I have not felt the aura of a "mahapurakh". Of course, Bhai Sahib's awastha will change over the course of his jeewan.. and I will openly praise him with the title of "sant" when that happens. But please do state why you believe Bhai Sahib is already at mahapurakh awastha? When I have been in the presence of a true dasam pita da gursikh, his aura was so so intense, it caused me to experience tunnel vision. Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru. I apologise again if I have come across as a nindak. - Jan Nanak Dhoor Mangai Tis Gursikh Ki, Jo Aap Japai Awaraih Naam Japavaih.. No-one can dispute Bhai Sahib's seva and parchaar. I don't side with anyone singh sahib, my views are my own and not aimed at winning support from anyone or trying to support anyone else. Bhul Chuk Maaf. ‘Singh987’ Sant Dhadrianwale are not a self-styled sant. They do not tell people to call them Sant, the sangat calls them Sant and will carry on to do so. It does not make any difference if one or two people object to this. About your money, i did not say that i know how much you have, but what i do know is that you are very streesed out about the poor, so i am helping you in what you can do for them. The money Sant Dhadrianwale have is given to them by the sangat. Now, if someone gave you a present or a gift, you would take it kindly and say thankyou wouldn’t you? Otherwise, that would disrespect the person who gave it to you. In the same way, Sant Dhadrianwale are GIVEN cars as gifts because of their parchar and as they have to travel long distances everyday, the cars need to be expensive so that they are actually able to get to diwans on time. The cars are used to do parchaar, they don’t go buying them. Sangat has even mentioned buying them helecopters (let’s see what happens to these jelous people then, they might pass out!). Now if they used old cars, firstly they’d need lots n lots of them, and you’d never know when they might suddenly stop on the road. This would make it very difficult to get to diwans on time. Next, about the picture with their hair down, it seems as if YOU have never had a hair wash. That picture was taken when Sant Ji were drying their hair, because when you wash your hair you have to let it open so that it can dry. Sant Ji do not go to diwans with their hair down which is what you might be thinking. Besides their head is covered when they are drying it. You say that they wear fancy clothes. Maharaj does not say that my sikh is not allowed to wear these. You people try and biggen up issues that have nothing wrong with them. You say why the rest of the singhs do not wear the same, this is becasue not the whole jatha lectures, it is only Sant Ji. You say sangat bows down to them. There is nothing wrong with that.. Also, I would like you to show me where in gurbani it says that you should not bow down to gursikhs. Gurbani says that you should bow down and matha taek to whoever joins you to naam: jan naanak dhoorr mangai this gurasikh kee jo aap japai avareh naam japaavai |2| Servant Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that GurSikh, who himself chants the Naam, and inspires others to chant it. ||2|| jal tovo eih sees kar kar pag pakhalaavo | I carry water on my head, and with my hands I wash their feet. baar jaao lakh baereeaa dharas paekh jeevaavo |1| Tens of thousands of times, I am a sacrifice to them; gazing upon the Blessed Vision of their Darshan, I live. ||1|| santh charan kar sees dhar har naam dhiaavo |1| I place my hands and my head upon the feet of the Saints, and meditate on the Lord's Name. ||1|| santh janaa kee raenukaa lai maathai laavo |1| rehaao | Obtaining the dust of the feet of the Saints, I apply it to my forehead. ||1||Pause|| ttehal karo thaerae dhaas kee pag jhaaro baal | I perform service for Your slave, O Lord, and wipe his feet with my hair. masathak apanaa bhaett dhaeo gun suno rasaal |1| I offer my head to him, and listen to the Glorious Praises of the Lord, the source of bliss. ||1|| mo ko dheejai dhaan prabh santhan pag raal |2| Bless me, O God, with the gift of the dust of the feet of the Saints. ||2|| aisee kirapaa mohi karahu | Bless me with such mercy, Lord, santheh charan hamaaro maathaa nain dharas than dhoor parahu |1| rehaao | that my forehead may touch the feet of the Saints, and my eyes may behold the Blessed Vision of their Darshan, and my body may fall at the dust of their feet. ||1||Pause|| kar kirapaa dhoor dhaehu santhan kee sukh naanak eihu baashai |4|9|130| Grant Your Grace, and bless us with the dust of the feet of the Saints; Nanak yearns for this peace. ||4||9||130|| ‘M16’ Firstly, What part of this “kasvati” explained in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji shows that Sant Dhadrianwale do not have the avastha to be called sant? Secondly, a “true dasam pita da gursikh” does not show to people what state he is in, and Gurbani tells us this: kahu kabeer shooshaa ghatt bolai | bhariaa hoe s kabahu n ddolai | This shows us that a “true dasam pita da gursikh” would not go around doind ‘karamats’ so that people around him “experience tunnel vision” Thirdly, you say ‘Jan Nanak Dhoor Mangai Tis Gursikh Ki, Jo Aap Japai Awaraih Naam Japavaih’. Surely this can be applied to Sant Dhadrianwale, as they do make others ‘jap naam’ therefore showing that you yourself do not understand what gurbani is saying, i do not know what kind of gursikh YOU are waiting for. Forthly, you say: “I don't side with anyone singh sahib, my views are my own and not aimed at winning support from anyone or trying to support anyone else.” Saying that a parcharak is good for the parchar done, does not go against gurbani and please feel free to show if i am wrong through gurbani quotataions. Also, It does not make any difference if one or two people are against them, as maharaj says: gourree | Gauree: nindho nindho mo ko log nindho | Slander me, slander me - go ahead, people, and slander me. nindhaa jan ko kharee piaaree | Slander is pleasing to the Lord's humble servant. nindhaa baap nindhaa mehathaaree |1| rehaao | Slander is my father, slander is my mother. ||1||Pause|| nindhaa hoe th baikunth jaaeeai | If I am slandered, I go to heaven; naam padhaarath manehi basaaeeai | the wealth of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, abides within my mind. ridhai sudh jo nindhaa hoe | If my heart is pure, and I am slandered, hamarae kaparae nindhak dhoe |1| then the slanderer washes my clothes. ||1|| nindhaa karai s hamaraa meeth | One who slanders me is my friend; nindhak maahi hamaaraa cheeth | the slanderer is in my thoughts. nindhak so jo nindhaa horai | The slanderer is the one who prevents me from being slandered. hamaraa jeevan nindhak lorai |2| The slanderer wishes me long life. ||2|| nindhaa hamaree praem piaar | I have love and affection for the slanderer. nindhaa hamaraa karai oudhaar | Slander is my salvation. jan kabeer ko nindhaa saar | Slander is the best thing for servant Kabeer. nindhak ddoobaa ham outharae paar |3|20|71| The slanderer is drowned, while I am carried across. ||3||20||71|| I also think that jelousy might be playing a main role through the way you think. Either this being the satkar that is given to Sant Dhadrianwale as we all know this does not happen for every parcharak as the sangat knows whether the parcharak is doing parchar for sikhi or whether a parcharak is doing this for a different reason. Sharda is also a main part of sikhi. If you do not have sharda you wont be able to “feel the aura” even sitting right next to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji never mind Gursikhs. This can be proven easily if we just have a look at the debates going on about Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji. Again, some so-called sikhs do not have the sharda to see this as pavitar baani of Dhan Guru Gobind Singh JI Maharaj. Sharda is also backed up in gurbani: salaam jabaab dhovai karae muntahu ghuthaa jaae | One who offers both respectful greetings and rude refusal to his master, has gone wrong from the very beginning. naanak dhovai koorreeaa thaae n kaaee paae |2| O Nanak, both of his actions are false; he obtains no place in the Court of the Lord. ||2|| Some of us try to pick out and exagerate issues that are meaningless so that we can put down other gursikhs who are at a higher avastha than us, as we ourselves are not able to get there.

Oh look who it is, another one allergic from the word 'SANT'. You're no way near Sant Dhadrianwale than I am and I know that they are deffinatly a mahapurakh. By saying that you know some of their singhs, does not put the avastha of Sant Dhadrianwale down. Do you really think that by saying that you have experience with them will make others believe that this is true? Only because others are reffered to by the word 'bhai' does not mean that the whole world is spoken to in the same manner. I think that you are another one of those people who say good about them as well as bad so that you can get a bit of both sides. thoon bhaaro suaamee maeraa | You are my Great Lord and Master. santhaa bharavaasaa thaeraa | You are the support of the Saints. naanak prabh saranaaee | Nanak has entered God's Sanctuary. mukh nindhak kai shaaee |2|22|86| The faces of the slanderers are blackened with ashes. ||2||22||86||　

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php/topic/49275-jathedar-swarnjit-singh-supports-babbu-maan-album/page__st__12

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php/topic/49275-jathedar-swarnjit-singh-supports-babbu-maan-album/page__st__12

Why don't you 'm16' go and sell your computer and donate the money to the poor, if your sooooo concerned about this issue, donate your house as well and your clothes, what about family, yeah and donate your shoes and sock as well. don't forget your duvet and any pillows you might have. Go and get a life!

and by the way 'm16' stop talking gobbeldy gook! your only jelous because YOU cant pose as good as dhadrianwale. and besides their photos aren't done in a studio, you can edit pics, i didn't think i'd have to tell you this. It doesn't take a genius to spot the difference in which is edited and which is original. This is done purposely by Kulwant singh (dhadrianwale site designer) to make the pictures look even better. Ive given you an example below:

Dasam Granth Rules, Dhadrianwale Rule and so does Damdami Taksal so anybody doing nindya SSHhhhhhhhhh cus you know your wrong.

I get it now, i didn't read all of it in detail, i saw the words sant and audi first which then had an effect on the way i saw the rest of it i am so used to reading posts that do nindya about dhadrianwale and i thought this was another one. ooooooooooooppppppppppsssssssssssssssssiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

Ooooooooooopsy! Sorry, I only read the word Sant and Audi, but it's still true for those people who really do nindya

Why are people doing nindya of Sant's on this forum, The Sangat gives them expensive cars, they dont go bying them themself, and the cars are used for parchaar so WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM! Isn't it a bit strange that the people doing nindya of sants are are the same people that do nindya of Sri Dasam Granth Maharaj? What is happening to sikhi? Do you think that Guru Gobind Singh Ji is getting happy that my own sikhs are leaving my bani and going against me?