gurdssingh

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Come on singh - I konw you were reading this. You ask others have they given there head to the Guru - implying you have but you can't even state who you are in real life - let alone do anyhting!

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1. if some Singhs went off the path that does not mean you should follow in their foot steps. If they want to jump off cliffs and land on dead donkey to their death, do you want to do the same?

2. There is more to it than what is written or heard. No one was paid for a wrong action.

3. If tomorrow a Christian joins up with a Jew because they have a common goal does that make the Christian a Jew now or the Jew a Christain? The fact was that some Muslims and Hindus understood in order to live in peace, without oppression there is one oprressive force that needs to be eliminated. The people of that land worked together to get rid of one enemy. The Muslims didn't become Khalsa or Sikh and same goes for the Sikhs. The Sikhs didn't become Muslims while fighting a common enemy. Or are you against working with other people to reach one common goal of peace?

1. What do want to do? (apart from metting me face to face, (chicken) I came from UK to BC)

2. How do you know? Really read histroical accounts from the moguhal scribes, or even independents such as Mushin Fani (Persian)

3. You are wrong. Read Baba Banda Singh Bhahdues account of Sirhind, no muslims became Sikh - really? Just look at the list of converts such as Ali Singh etc.!

Im sorry either it is you take it or you don't. Or then don't look down on others. HYPOCRITES - just look at Sikhs from Gurus time, they never ever compromised. Small amonuts is ok! Define small amounts?

If you have been blessed to be initiated with khande batehe da pahul then the answer is simple. Kakkar are angs, NEVER remove them if you have a choice. I mean come on Singho don't be hypocrites! Look at our shaheeds did they remove a kakkar or did they face death?

Nowadays people think I'm going to go on holiday, got to take of my kirpan, no issues just do ardas, it's okay. It's the law! But same person goes out all OSD when having the daily shower! Making sure kachera , kirpan are on body at all times.

WHAT! Is man made law more important than GURU's lawWHAT! Is man made law more important than GURU's law.

ALSO on side note why do so many (just on this forum), ask yeah, but what is your nitnem like? UMMH! you have broken your amrit if you have not followed the rehat prescribed by the panj!

Put things into groups classify them if you want. Fact remains bacteria is a living organism or is it not? They can move and reproduce. Just becasue they are small and we can not see them they are no different to other LIVING ORGANISMS. They might not run away when you approach because either they are not sacred of you or because you can't see them with the naked eye. Trust me bacteria can move.

Living of bark etc. OK. In Guru ji's time I have no views about the Singhs but what about misl period? Please read about the rakhi system etc. The Singhs were just like normal people, they had the same disre for material things.

Also inthe Khalsa army under our Guru's they hired mercenaries who were paid, many were muslims were in the army.

Sorry this is off topic but don't live in dream land where the Khalsa armies were all saints, just read historical docs from the period. Obviously they are going to baised depending on the authour put you can still get an idea.

Let's take a look at Guru Har Rai Ji.

As a young child Guru Sahib was running in the flower garden at Kiratpur Sahib. He was wearing a Chola (cloak). While running the cloak brushed passed some flowers, thus the flowers were damaged. Guru Hargobind ji explained: "Always walk and move with care. Look after and manage your cloak and ensurtre that it doesn't hurt or damage anything in its path. Guru Sahib promised his grandfather, that he would in the future be careful in his responsibilities towards man, animals and plants.

This was just for a flower. What do you expect would happen if it was an animal?

ਨਿਰਦਇਆ ਨਹੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਉਜਾਲਾ ॥ ਬੂਡਤ ਬੂਡੇ ਸਰਬ ਜੰਜਾਲਾ ॥੪॥

You have no compassion; the Lord’s Light does not shine in you.

You are drowned, drowned in worldly entanglements.(4)

I'm confused? So we have to take care with all things but then we can EAT vegetables?

Also what about bacteria in all things e.g. yogurt (dhahey), it's made with bacteria. It's a living organism it multiplies why is there no controversey over eating it. I mean it's living, reproduces etc. So an animal right?

If you don't eat meat then also refrain from using animal products in alot of things. Just examples I have seen in all Gurdwareh I been too. Some musical instuments are made with animal products. Also so are some clothes and alot of shoes i.e leather.

Also an argument I have read in this thread is that you should not eat meat for taste only if you need for survival. Like think about it when the Khalsa were in the mountains or Ladkhi jungles do you think an army who had no other means of food lived off leaves? They were soldiers, they needed strength to eat. Don't no if true but when Banda Singh Bhahdurs army was engulfed by the mouguls and food ran out they ate animals including oxon, which Indians usally refrain from. So my question is you can eat it to survive not for taste, but what about Shaheeds like Shaheed Taru Singh, they would rather face death than cut their hair. So either it is you can or can not eat meat. Either face death or live.

On a side note theres been some scientific views posted. a point I like to make is we cut nails as they are dead, that's the justification as taht is also how god made us with growing nails. But it's ok to cut. But why the same logic not applied to hair. All hair that grows out of the skin is dead. So guys don't make silly claims, there must are other reasons why we keep hair, such as to be easily identifiable. (Well that's the only one I can think off).

we are talking abouts sikhs here not just humans. humans do a lots of things.

?

Jutiyan da haar es Gaddar Jatt di photo de gal ch paa ke, chittar parade karni si edi Panchkula ch.

Why mention the fact eh jatt se? Also he himself thought himself as a Sikh and so did his family but he was not!

I mean sant ji was a Brar so would you also use same logic and refer to as a Jatt? I think NOT.

Which Tesco was it? Is it the Southall / Hayes Tesco? Because on numerous occasions the same guy has asked me for money. I gave a couple of times but now I just refuse. He seems to just hang around the car park near to cash machines. Fair play to him as he did admit to me after I refused to give him any money is that he needed it for Herion as he was feeling rough. The thing is he doesn't ask one person but loads. The guy is from India and lives rough his name is Raju.

Intresting topic. My view is that yes we should donate as much as we can.

There is the concept of dasvandh, but in todays economic climate it is very hard to contribute 10% of income. Also how do you calculate it, like is it pre-tax or nett, does giving money equate to more than providing seva (i.e. your time), does the formality of donating your money or time count if you only do it as a mere formality or does it have to 100% selfless? So many people do seva or contribute and then ask Waheguru Ji please I will give this much money or do so and so seva or I will do this many jaaps of bani. Does it count? Does Waheguru need anything from us? Can we make deals? I think NO. If we give to charity give as much as you can not because you want in return or expect people to say wow! what a great guy. You should give because you genuinely want to help someone. No strings attached, want nothing in return.

Sikhi teaches us to give to charity but those who have nothing how can they give dasvandh? My personal belief is that the 10% is not as rigid as we make out as many can give more and many may not even give a small percentage or anyhting at all. I feel we need to be good humans and have good actions. Your intentions should be honest.

Also a point was made that if you give your donations to someone who then does not use the money for intended purpose but for other means then you will also get bad karma. Is this a Sikh belief?As I find it very hard to fathom. As how can person 'A' be responsile for person 'B's actions. Ok he has equipped him with the funds to XYZ, but he has not even been made aware. He thinks it is for all good. So how can you be blamed? Also will it work the other way found e.g. the most evil person ever has equipped you with explosives and guns etc. Ordered you to commit attrocities against innocent civilians and you as a solider refuse and use the same equipment to help defend inncoent people, will the evil person then get good karma as they provided you with the means to help innocent people. I think NOT.

As long as what is worn is modest and suitable in maharaj's hazoori what is the problem? In the west even in Punjab, Sikhs wear western clothes, so what is the issue it's not like all Sikhs wear bana. Clothes are clothes as long as they are apporpriate.

Watched the video's in this thread just watch op's video it shows some other community, they are dalits' but higher caste dalits' so they moan about how they are mistreated by non dalits' but say they will be polluted yes polluted by dalits' whom they percieve to be loewer in the varna than themselves. HYPOCROSIY or what!!!!! Same with Sikhs ************ I have met will say they don't believe in caste unless they refer to ***********. WHAT!

Daily Mail don't believe everything you read on the internet!! Most of it is the posters own views and totally untrue.

JasSinghKhalsa learn some history tarkhans are tarkhans. They only use the name Ramgharia to connect themselves to someone from their baradri i.e the great Jassa Singh who was known as Ramgharia as his fort in Amritsar was Ramghar hence he was known as Ramgharia. There is no caste called Ramgharia it has been used by tarkhans to elevate themselves in society by using the name of someone great who they percieve to be one of their own.

Same case with kalal's (brewers, yes brewers!), they use Ahulwalia by associating with Jassa Singh Ahulwalia, from village Ahul.

By associating with great Sikh personalites people from that baradri thought by describing themselves that way we will be seen as having higher standing in society.

Yes Jatts were peasents but they gained there reputation by bravery and acheiving something on their own backs in huge numbers. Not using just one great persons achievements to gain a higher social status.

Listen firstly don't hate yourself, keep on the spritual path and do ardas to Waheguru ji everyday. Not because you want something back but for your love of Waheguru ji.

Secondly you may have some confidence issues but thats ok, just expecting things to change automatically wont happen. You need to put in some effort as well. Don't think people hate you as hate is a strong word. You need to try and carry yourself better, if you act confident, walk tall, look people in the eye when talking these things make a difference to other peoples perception of you. If you have a school councillor try talking to them and ask for help if not involve yourself in something you enjoy and mix with people with same interest. Does'nt have to be sports could be like anything such as book club, chess club etc. You might be shy but you have to try changing things to make a difference. Do it in very small baby steps.

I know how had it can be to fit in. Myself and wife are very outgoing and never had issues but my daughter who is 7 now, when she started school like after nursery she did'nt mix in well. She was getting bullied. She is born in late August and as the school year starts in September some kids were llike nearly 1 whole year older and at that age it makes a lot of difference. But gradually we got her to build up her confidence. She is involved in many after school clubs and does other activities like Twe Kwon Do etc. " years ago she was very shy apart from bullying her daddy but nowadays she is totally different. You have to put in something to make a differnce.

The men in my family have always believed that if we go out at night....have girlfriends.....drink alcohol etc, then our mother and sister have every right in the world to do the same. That is why no man in my family has ever done things that we wouldn't want our female family members to do.

Come on WLS you state you are nothing if not consistent, but please read above text in bold and then your own admission below second line of text..OK, just to massage your ego as you are nothing but arrogant I shall applaude you. So pat on the back for you, 2 thumbs up for you.

I'll be quite honest, I've never read anything you've ever written. I'm not even sure who you are.

Drank beers but stopped purely because I felt I should be setting the right example to all of my sisters., rather than for purely religious reasons. Should you not be applauding me for this ?

I did not have a go at a fellow human being. It was Dal Singh.

I'm not 'studying' Law. I graduated with a law degree over 7 years ago. Since then I've also done my masters. What I'm doing today is 'research'. If I had aspirations to earn good money whilst sitting in an office with a suit on don't you think I would have gone in that direction by now ? I am nothing if not consistent Gurdsingh.

You must be a real wind up merchent in daily life if your posts on this site are anything to go by. Why do you think your so special? (refering to above text, in bold).

You may or may not have read anything I have posted as you may be going by the assumption my profile name is Gurdsingh. As opposed to what it is.

You have no aspirations to earn good money whilst sitting in an office. You maybe content to earn low wages whilst working in warehouses. You could get a good job in the profession you studied and work flexi/ part time hours whilst still doing your research. Each to their own. But, the question is why do you so often put someone down from the area they are from and indirectly state how better off and better you are? Example you've stated your from Osterley and average house prices there are was £650K+ or £750K+, I did correct you at the time as I have also lived in Osterley and um FELLA they are not!

Daily Mail. Read through all the comments I have ever made in the 5 or so years I have been posting here. I have been consistent in saying time and again how the Sikhi my parents brought me up with espouses 100% gender equality. No difference at all between a man and a woman. I've consistently gone on the threads after threads that appear about Sikh girls marrying muslims etc and I've always defended the girl. I've always stated that if we Sikh men want Sikh women to behave in a certain way then we should lead by example. I've always stated here that this is how my dad has lived his life and this is how I live my life. The men in my family have always believed that if we go out at night....have girlfriends.....drink alcohol etc, then our mother and sister have every right in the world to do the same. That is why no man in my family has ever done things that we wouldn't want our female family members to do.

By all means disagree with me for what I have said in this thread but please try and show a little more comprehension than Mehtab Singh. He was not able to understand this point so turned into a 'defending women's rights' thing falsely painting me as the type of man that wants to keep women chained to the sink. He did that in order to gain support for his criticism of me. You don't need to lower yourself to that level. You're better than that.

I'll ask my question again, and this time, with you knowing where I stand on gender equality, I hope you can ignore the un-called for spite : Bearing in mind the fact that Sikhi prescribes that good things will happen to those that go to bed early and rise at amrit vele is it not reasonable therefore to say that bad things will likely happen to those that are out frolicking in the streets with members of the opposite sex at late hours ?

I been reading your posts for a while now, you come across as very arrogant. I've never been bothered too respond to one of your post but what you said in this thread is absolutely disgusting. No let me ask you something?

Paraphrasing your post above you say men in your family don't do such and such and lead by example but if you did such things you would then believe the females in your family have the same right. So do the men in your family also include you? As you have posted yourself on this site, that before you were married that you used to drink Stella.

*EDIT - the following is with regards to other threads

I don't know if you include yourself as a man as recently you had a go at someone. You stated that (again paraphrasing), they were a girl for having an office job, your a man for working in a manual job BUT you youself are also studying law aspiring to go into that profession. So maybe you will then become a girl if you work in an office?

About being non Indian, well you have on more than one occasion stated how your family got here. They joined the British Army, Fiji etc. End of the day that place was still British India (we can like it or not), but in the worlds eyes the nationality of your ancestors would be Indian.

More recently you state your parents were both born in England? Before you had a different ancestral heritage nowadays you state illegal passports from Pakistan and Karachi?

I may be in Leicester for a day, are there any must-see things there?

Leicester is kinda boring really. Southall has a huge Sikh Population, you can go to the Havelock Road Gurudwara, its pretty amazing and its huge you can always go to Jalebi Junction along southall broadway if you are super bored

Leicester is home to the first registered Sikh musuem in Europe, it was opened at Guru Nanak Gurdwara in the early 90's. Same Gurdwara Sahib the Queen visited for her Golden jubliee year 10 years back. It is Leicester oldest Gurdwara dating back over half a century but second largest.

Leicester has a huge Indian population, it is predicted to be the first CITY in the UK where whites will be a minority. Obviously the highest proportion of ethnic miniorities is Gujarati Hindus, followed by Gujarati (Kutchi) Muslims it has a high number of Sikhs. Infact more so than most cities apart from London and then Birmingham.

At the moment the Diwali lights are up, there is no city in the UK where the Diwali light turn on attracts more visitors than the Chritstmas light turn on. About 30 - 35,000 people attend. Diwali Day itself a similar if not more number of people attend. Biggest Diwali celebrations outside of India.

Leicester is a very multicultural city it has the second biggest carnival after Notting Hill. It has many other non Sikhi attractions including excellent shopping if you have been sucked into maya like me there are many designer shops which other cities do not evem have.Also the National Space Centre is worth a visit.

Canadagoose Leicester is not boring, ?

dastar implimented by 6th guruji ,veerji have you seen guru nanak dev ji s picture ,you even dont know the meaning of sikhism i think and you are here trying to justify wearing dastar as a fashion ,yeah anyone can wear turban ,mughals too wear turban but dastar for is for good sikhs only(sikh means a person not a religion) ,turban is a sign of respect thats why some weaklinks too wear it just to tell they are respected and still do wrong ,people can wear turban ,drink ,meat ,make boyfriends,gf but calling themself as guru ka sikh ,no they are not that ,they are just like some random people ,and dastar is not for show offs ,

on 1 side there are some really good sikhs who stay away from all this wrong things and on one side there are people like you who drink srink meat and say we have right to wear a turban , :tease: , we will promote sikhism (haha you yourself dont know what a real sikh is and you want to promote sikhism,gud luck) :read: ,

a theif :ph34r: can also wear a police dress ,just to get respect around people but inside he knew that just by wearing a dress he cant be a real police officer :huh2: :happy2:

p.s. check this out

http://www.panthic.org/articles/2143

I think you are replying to me. Well firstly don't judge me, how do you know what I do and do not do.

Also I ask you do you know what Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji looked like? REALLY? Do you even know the first thing about Sikhi? We do not believe in idol worship of pictures!

Obviously you are basing your perception on the imageof Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji which was created by Sobha Singh, an artist, his impresion is what most people think Guru ji looked like. Also another popular picture is the one commisoned by Sant Baba Nand Singh Ji from Nanaksar Gurdwara.

Did you know that the first 5 gurus wore a seli topi. It was passed down during gurgaddi. So like you asked me do you know anything about Sikhi? I don't think a dastar is a fashion symbol. However, anyone has the right to wear one as it has been around for centuries prior to Sikhi.

Also I have not bothered to click the link to the panthic tabloid website.

Also Gurpreet14 you are obviously just a little 14 year old kid so no need to respond to you. Please educate yourself then make your statements.

what have all these numbers got to do with the video? Have we not got any comments on these shaheeds?

Parnaam Shaheeda Nu

All these numbers are important as we are Sikhs and we believe in all this hocus pocus stuff.......NOT

What are all the messages with regards to numbers about?

Wearing a dastar is very common in Punjab even if people have hair cuts and are in for example in public service ie police they wear a turban. So YES turban is associated with Sikhi put it is not exclusive property of Sikhs, Punjabis as a whole have much respect for the turban (well in the past, and they should also now). Also across much of Asia Turban is seen as a sign of respect.

its better to go as many times as possible :D i went before a flight home. darbar sahib at 3am= best peace ever got morning seva there too was so awesome

That is good you want to do darshan as much times as possible.

But for some it is just a formaility so they be clock watching as they do not want to miss the flight.

So instead off visiting Darbar Sahib on the way in or out of Punjab, it is much better to take time out of your vacation and spend more than a couple of hours there, either as you are tied and want to go home as you have just arrived. Or the other scenario is oh we got to get out of here the planes going to leave us behind on the way out of Punjab, so quick time do darshan. But as most flights to UK leave early morning, so at Darbar Sahib you can't even matha tekh as Guru Ji's parkash has not been done yet. However, you will see the peace and tranquilty and sevadars washing the parkarma with milk etc.

I don't understand why they have murals of the virign Mary? If for example in an Islamic country ie. Pakistan a Gurdwara sahib had a painting of the Kabba or in India a Gurdwara sahib had pictures on the wall of Hindu dieites that would cause uproar! I mean in India in many ithasic Gurughars paintings of Hindu dieties have been whithewashed. So why exactly is the virgin Mary painting okay, especaillly when it is incorporated into an image portraying our Guru Sahibans? WRONG!!!!!