singhfauja

Jvala Singh's blog raises a lot of questions. Does Jvala Singh also agree with the Niddar UK Nang group's philosophy? His blog claims that a Devi appeared before Guru Gobind Singh Ji and she gave Guru Sahib a Kirpan for the creation of Khalsa. Can Jvala Singh tell who this Devi was according his sources, and why would Guru Gobind Singh Ji need her help? ਮਹਾ ਮਾਈ ਕੀ ਪੂਜਾ ਕਰੈ ॥ ਨਰ ਸੈ ਨਾਰਿ ਹੋਇ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੩॥ One who worships the great goddess maya will be reincarnated as a woman, and not a man. ||3|| ਤੂ ਕਹੀਅਤ ਹੀ ਆਦਿ ਭਵਾਨੀ ॥ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕੀ ਬਰੀਆ ਕਹਾ ਛਪਾਨੀ ॥੪॥ You (Durga, Chandi, Maha-Mayee) are called the primal goddess. At the time of liberation, where will you hide then? ||4||

Bhai Kulbir Singh has beautifully explained the real meaning of Bhagauti and Shakti. This is 100% inline with what other Panthic scholars have written on this same subject, namely in the works: Bhai Vir Singh Ji's "ਦੇਵੀ ਪੂਜਨ ਪੜਤਾਲ" Giani Ditt Singh's (Singh Sabha Lehar Founder) "ਦੁਰਗਾ ਪ੍ਰਬੋਧ" Giani Manna Singh "ਦਸਮ ਗੁਰ ਗਿਰਾ ਸਰਵੇਖਣ" (published by Bhai Veer Singh Sahit Sadan) Bhai Kahn Singh Nabha's "ਭਗੌਤੀ (ਭਗਉਤੀ)" and "ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਭਗੌਤੀ ਸਿਮਰ ਕੈ" and "ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਕਾਲਿਕਾ ਅਰਾਧੀ" Giani Harbans Singh Ji's "ਭਗਉਤੀ ਪਦ ਬਾਰੇ ਨਿਰਣਯ" Bhai Randhir Singh Ji's "ਭਗਉਤੀ ਪਦ ਦਾ ਤੱਤ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਨਿਰਣਾ" The above scholars ALL agreed that Bhagauti is the power (shakti) of Akal Purakh, ie: NAAM, not some eight or ten armed deity. Despite this clarity, psuedo-Nihangs and pro-Sanatani Nirmala and Udassee minded individuals have intentionally tried to bombard Hindu symbolism and ritualism in Sikhism. Sadly, sikhreality (Jwala Singh) have seemed to jumped on this bandwagon also. The images posted of Hindu devi devtaas on his blog in connection to Sri Dasam Bani are sending a mixed message and adding add fuel to the fire created by the anti-Panthic elements that try to link Sri Dasam Granth to Hinduism. First Sikhs don't worship images, and are against 'murti-puja'. Many such images were created as frescos during the time of Raja Ranjit Singh when Brahmanism has crept into many aspects of Sikhi via Nirmalas and Udasees. These images were created by those whose were obsessed with only the qualities of Sargun and could not grasp the Nirgun power behind these scenes. They are misleading. I think it is our obligation to not promote such non-Gurmat depictions. We don't need images to understand the message of Shabd-Guru. When we read ਹਰਣਾਖਸੁ ਦੁਸਟੁ ਹਰਿ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦੁ ਤਰਾਇਆ ॥ we don't need an image of 'NarSingh' (traditionally known as the incarnation of Vishnu) to understand this tuk. The word ਹਰਿ is enough to illustrate the point that the evil ਹਰਣਾਖਸੁ was destroyed by the power of ਹਰਿ (Akal Purakh Himself), be it in the form of 'NarSingh.' It is nonsense to just dismiss the above scholars and their views as "British influence." If it was not for the Singh Sabha movement, we would still have murtis of these devi devtas in Sri Darbar Sahib Harmandir Sahib and Sri Akal Takht Sahib and our local Gurdwaras along side saroops of Sri Gur Granth Sahib Ji. Without the Singh Sabha movement, instead of an Anand-Karj, Sikhs would still be circling a fire pit, while a pandit read passages from Ved. His blog, Jwala Singh states: Here is a picture of Khem Singh Bedi that Jwala Singh is referring to. Khem Singh used to sit parallel to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji on a gadee (cushion platform), it was Singh Sabha Lahore and Giani Dit Singh Ji who protested in outrage. Khem Singh wanted to treated like a Guru, in the image below there is a man doing chaur. How can any Sikh approve of this? Jwala Singh blog then states: Bhai Jwala Singh should read Bhai Vir Singh Ji's "ਦੇਵੀ ਪੂਜਨ ਪੜਤਾਲ" and Giani Ditt Singh's "ਦੁਰਗਾ ਪ੍ਰਬੋਧ", which makes it clear that NO DEVI appeared in front of Guru Gobind Singh Ji before the Baiaskhi 1699. Instead, Guru Gobind Singh Ji showed the Brahmin pandits who had been performing havan for years, praying for Durga to appear, that the Sri Sahib - Kirpan - was the real Chandi ਨਮੋ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗੌਤੀ ਬਢੇਲੀ ਸਰੋਹੀ ॥ ਕਰੇ ਏਕ ਤੇ ਦ੍ਵੈ ਸੁਭਟ ਹਾਥ ਸੋਹੀ ॥ and ਨਮੋ ਤੇਗ ਤਰਵਾਰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਖੱਗ ਖੰਡਾ ॥ ਮਹਾਂ ਰੁਦ੍ਰ ਰੂਪਾ ਬਿਰੂਪਾ ਪ੍ਰਚੰਡਾ ॥ (ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗੌਤੀ ਸਤੋਤ੍ਰ) Guru Granth Sahib Ji makes is clear that: ਨਿਰਗੁਨੁ ਆਪਿ ਸਰਗੁਨੁ ਭੀ ਓਹੀ ॥ ਕਲਾ ਧਾਰਿ ਜਿਨਿ ਸਗਲੀ ਮੋਹੀ ॥ ਅਪਨੇ ਚਰਿਤ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਆਪਿ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਅਪੁਨੀ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਆਪੇ ਪਾਏ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਬਿਨੁ ਦੂਜਾ ਨਾਹੀ ਕੋਇ ॥ ਅਪਨਾ ਖੇਲੁ ਆਪਿ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਖੈ ਠਾਕੁਰਿ ਰਚਨੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥੧॥ Behind the scenes it is ONLY Akal Purakh and nothing else. The rest of creation is just his play. The devis, and devtaas are just part of the drama, but they not the reality. The real DEVI, BHGAUTEE, CHANDEE is AKAL PURAKH SAHIB's SHAKTI - NAAM-Da-KHANDA. In Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, Guru Gobind Singh Ji describes the drama (Natak) but then shows the REALITY. The drama is there for knowledge and inspiration for dharam-yudh, in Chandi-Charriter 2, Guru Sahib states: ਸੁਨੈ ਸੂਮ ਸੋਫੀ ਲਹੈ ਜੁੱਧ ਗਾਢੈ... and in Krishanavtar, it is stated: ਦਸਮ ਕਥਾ ਭਾਗਉਤ ਕੀ ਭਾਖਾ ਕਰੀ ਬਨਾਇ॥ ਅਵਰ ਬਾਸਨਾ ਨਾਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਧਰਮ ਜੁੱਧ ਕੇ ਚਾਇ॥ Sadly, there are some factions within the Nihangs who are over zealously promoting the traditional Indian concepts of devi, bhagautee, and chandi and linking them to Sri Dasam Granth. This is doing dis-service to those who have worked so hard to clarify these concepts according to Tat-Gurmat. Here are some examples of such corruption: 3HO - Yogi Bhajan's group - has added a image of the Virgin Mary within the Khanda, and referr to the Khanda as "Adi Shaktee" http://3.bp.blogspot...01C94CD1%5B1%5D Neo-Nihangs mixing Hindu symbolism with Sikh Symbols and Gurbani (from Jwala Singh's blog site)

Seems to be working now!

The above video in which Sant Jarnail Singh addresses Santa Sinh as "Budha Dalia" proves that this man had been working against Panthic interests well before 1984. Once his health began to deteriorate quickly in 2001, 17 years after he was excommunicated, he decided to stop challenging Sri Akal akht Sahib and orchestrated out a "deal" with Jathedar Vedanti for a lenient 'tankhah. Remember Vedanti had also "forgiven" the notorious rapist Baba Dhanwant Singh at Sri Akal Takht Sahib, but the Baba was later found GUILTY by the courts, and locked up in prison. The 2001 pardon of Santa Sinh was a similar political stunt by Budhal Dal and Akali politicians. Panthic organizations who suffered during the 1980s and 1990s were not involved in this decision. Being knowledgeable about Sikh scriptures does not exempt one from being a gaddar. Santa was a gaddar who for 17 years challenged Sri Akal Takht Sahib and the Khalsa Panth. Like Ragi Darshan he used to say that HE was the REAL Jathedar of Sri Akal Takht Sahib and that he did not recognize anyone else's authority. Interestingly, Santa Sinh's followers and Ragi followers both share one thing in common - despite the unparalleled treachery - they see both men as 'scholars' and mahapurakhs. Imagine if Ragi Darshan did that for 17 years (if he lives that long) and then finally due to old age, decides to go pesh in 2027? Would that be OK? By honoring Santa Nihang, what kind of precedent are we setting? Are we saying it is OK to do 'gadaree' for almost two decades, as long as we ultimately pesh at some time in the future. What about all the Nihangs who joined him in 1984, have they asked for forgiveness from the Takht? Santa Sinh's Budha Dal faction did the ultimate treachery in 1984 - they have not come clean about it to this day. Calling yourselves 'Dal Panth' or 'guru-kian-ladleean faujan' does not give anybody any special privilege. There is no reason to honor such individuals. Instead, honor those who have led exemplary lives during the 1980s and 1990s. Those Soormays and Shaheeds, and Yodhays who sacrificed all they had for the Panth, not those who fought against them. There is ample evidence that this man has had innocent Singhs murdered during the 1980s who spoke against him. "Truth about Punjab - SGPC White Paper": "Subsequently, the Government brought one Santa Singh on the sacred premises and associated him with the reconstruction of the demolished building which the Government sought hurriedly to do through a Government contractor Tejwant Singh. Santa Singh was a person of known anti-Sikh and anti-SGPC antecedents. President Zail Singh, when he was the Chief Minister of Punjab, had associated him in a public procession which he had organised on the Guru Gobind Singh Marg. Santa Singh's associates were released from the prison and he was presented an imported car and an escort to move about. Acknowledging this honour, Santa Singh called him a 'Param Sikh'. " "Reduced to ashes: The Insurgency and Human Rights in Punjab": The CCDP has gathered the following information about this case through its incident report form no. CCDP/01702. The main informant is the victim's widow Simarjit Kaur. Thirty-two-year-old Sukhdev Singh, son of Mangal Singh and Amar Kaur, was a baptized Sikh from Ballagan village, post office Bhopar Saida, under Sadar police station in Gurdaspur district. Sukhdev was married to Simarjit Kaur and had two daughters, Inderjit Kaur and Bhupinderjit Kaur, now in their early twenties, and a son Satinder Pal Singh, a teenager. In 1984, Sukhdev's elder brother Ranjit Singh, an important functionary of the Nihang sect called "Buddha Dal", was appointed as head of the organization after its then chief Santa Singh was ex-communicated by the Sikh religious establishment for lending support to the government after the June 1984 Operation Blue Star. Santa Singh received the support of the central government and he continued to remain influential. According to Simarjit Kaur, Santa Singh managed to take his revenge and got Ranjit Singh murdered. Sukhdev Singh was very disturbed by the murder of his brother and, with the resolve to avenge it, he developed links with the militant movement. Soon, the police establishment became suspicious and began to hold him in illegal custody under torture. The police also picked up and interrogated his family members. Sukhdev could not endure the torture and left his home to join the ranks of the underground. The police atrocities against his family members became more ruthless. According to Simarjit Kaur, the police arrested her father Mohan Singh, resident of Moga, and killed him in a fake encounter. Also, the police abducted the brother-in law of Sukhdev's brother Jugraj Singh, son of Mohinder Singh of Khuddi Cheema village in Gurdaspur district, from his house and killed him. According to Simarjit Kaur, the Gurdaspur police managed to nab her husband on 3 February 1992 and killed him in an encounter staged the same night. She could not provide further details of the incident.

Mod Note: Post all your offtopic posts to the original thread here: "Jatha Nihang Singha", While it is great to organize a program to share amongst the sangat the jeevan of Baba Chet Singh Ji, you must also do justice and share with the sangat the treacherous role of Santa Sinh since 1984. Your website only seems to glorify Santa Sinh, and makes no mention of his anti-Panthic activities during the 1980s. The Panth has not forgotten that he called the Kharkoo Singhs and Sant Jarnail Singh Bhinderanwale "darpokes" (cowards) who were 'soiling' Sri Akal Takht Sahib with their kesheras, and openly challenged while being on Buta Singh's payroll. His cowardly faction of Budha Dal graced the name of this institution, and played a nil role in the Sikh freedom movement. We seem to have selective short term memories. Please don't forget - Santa joined Indira's ranks and challenged the Sikh Panth for 17 years. Since when did he become a hero for the youth all of a sudden? Honoring him would be like spitting on the sacrifices of our Khalistani Shaheeds.

Sher puttar, Your argument is not any different from those who defend Ragi Darshan Mal. Yea the ragi is a great kirtanee, but don't forget - HE IS ALSO MORALLY BANKRUPT. You should not worry too much about the karmic debt of those who stand alongside Sri Akal Takht Sahib. Instead, worry about the moral bankruptcy and karmic debt of those who question and ridicule the Takht and its edicts. Akj.org is tarnishing the respectable name of the Akhand Kirtani Jatha and Bhai Randhir Singh Ji, there is nothing wrong with exposing thier thugee.

Hargurus, Please don't try to compare the Ragmala issue with Sri Dasam Granth controversy. This is exactly the same logic kala-afghanis are using. First of all, the Sikh Rahit Marayda (Sri Akal Takht Sahib) states bhog can be done on Mundhavani OR Ragmala. That is the current status quo in the Panth. There is no controversy here. In the past many extra banies were added to Saroops of Guru Granth Sahib Ji (Siaahee di Bidhee, Ratanmala, Shabads of Mirabai, etc). The Panth decided to remove them all, except there was no clear consensus on Ragmala, so it was left untouched. The Sikh Rahit Marayda makes it clear and forbids printing or publishing any saroop without Ragmala. Those Gursikhs who read Ragmala or don't read it, are both abiding by the Sikh Rahit Marayda and Panthic norms as stated by Sri Akal Takht Sahib. However the same can not be said about those (like you) who do kintu-prantoo of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib which is forbidden by Sri Akal Takht Sahib. Sri Akal Takht Sahib is clear on this, several Hukamanas were issued on this subject. Their point is clear : ALL Sikh institutions are instructed to not allow ANY KINTU-PRANTOO or VAAD VIVAAD of ANY KIND in ANY FORM via ANY MEDIUM (ਮੱਧਿਅਮ) whether it be radio, TV, newspapers, websites, etc. It is clear that akj.org has been violating Sri Akal Takht Sahib's edicts by allowing KINTU-PRANTOO and VAAD VIVAAD on Sri Dasam Granth Sahib. Can you outlines any steps you will take to rectify the above situation? Akj.org should seek forgiveness from Sri Akal Takht Sahib for committing such a blunder.

I just wanted to commend the sevadars from allowing these posts so the real face of akj.org can be seen. One point that needs to be made clear is that akj.org is does NOT represent the Akhand Kirtani Jatha organization whatsoever, nor is it the official site of Akhand Kirtani Jatha Toronto. Akhand Kirtani Jatha Toronto (registered body's) official site is www.Tapoban.org which is 100% pro-Panthic, pro-Sri Dasam Granth, and pro-Sri Akal Takht Sahib. Over the past few years, with the merging of akj-uk with akj.org this site has become an anti-Panthic cesspool that is brainwashing the youth with pro-kala afghani propoganda. Examples include : - akj.org sevadars openly supporting ragi darshan lal - endless criticism of various contents of sri Dasam Granth. - filtering out links to panthic sites such as tapoban.org, panthic.org and ekhalsa.com - continuous rejection of pro-Panthic, pro-Sri Dasam Granth posts. - promoting SikhRI/FATEH seminars and events - promoting anti-Sikh Paramjit Sarna and company - holding kirtan at Sikh Zehar Center - advertising Sikh Zehar Center kirtan on their website as part of the akj smagam - criticizing Singhs who stopped darshan lal at Sikh Zehar Center and labeling them as "foolish" - praising Sikh Zehar Center president manjit mangat by calling him a 'Gursikh' - continually violating Sri Akal Takht Sahib hukamanas by allowing their site to be propganda tool to criticize Sri Dasam Granth and Akal Takht Hukamnamas. One of the worst examples of this behavior is when the Singhs from Akhand Kirtanji Jatha Toronto (Tapoban Sahib) debated Jeonvala on Canadian TV, virtually EVERY Sikh site discussed it (SikhNet.com, SikhSangat.com, Panthic.org, Sikhawareness.com, Tapoban.org, GurmatBibek.com, many YahooGroups, etc.), BUT there was not a single peep on akj.org. Akj.org outright rejected the discussion and ALL posts citing that the debate was "NOT BALANCED" and that the other side (Kala-Afghanis) did not get proper opportunity to air thier views. When the rest of the Sikhs were delighted to see the young Panthic Singhs humiliate Jeonwala in the debate, akj.org sevadars in privately squirmed. What does that tell you? Whose side is akj.org on? The sangat can judge for themselves...