humgareeb

You obviously don't know what you are on about. back to my initial point, akj have not said they do not believe in SDG, all they are saying is that there is some controversy amongst some parts in the panth, and akj will abide with whatever decision the panth takes. Here is another press note from the india unit, signed by Jathedar Soorat Singh, who was the previous jathedar before Jathedar Bakshish Singh as specified on akj.org.

It's people like you who try and twist things to cause more rifts between jathay.

Tarlochan singh does not say anything on parallel parkash.So stop attribute something to him that he has not written. Stop hijacking this thread to focus on parkash.The point was that certain self made units of akj such as akj.org admin and akj uk are issuing statements creating doubts about banis of Dasam Granth sahib.They are violating official stand as parent organization in India have issued a statement that Dasam Granth in entirety is from tenth master.

Likes of dhundha have dubious character where they say something and then backtrack. So it is duty of sangat to checkmate such liars.Akal takhat comes in the picture afterwards. Besides propaganda against Dasam Granth , dhundha is well known for delivering sermons ridiculing Naam simran and call it parroting.AKJ uk could have found a better friend than him.

Well done, don't answer the questions which you don't have answers for..

AKJ.org represents AKJ units worldwide, see the following link which shows the leadership from India http://www.akj.org/skins/one/aboutus.php

I am not hijacking it my friend, the post was started only to find some AKJ DG kirtan, I wasn't the one who started pointing fingers..

AKJ singhs of India are firm believers in Dasam Bani. There was a reinsabhai at fatehgarh sahib last week and singhs of jatha recited many shabads from Dasam Granth sahib.

Bhai sahib Randhir singh ji himself a firm believer in Dasam bani.Akal ustat, bachitra natak and chndi di vaar were part of his nitnem.

Having said that there are some claiming to be akj , mostly based in UK, who are against Dasam granth sahib and are supporters of person like dhundha as was evident from dhundha's visit to uK a few weeks back.

In my view such people should be exposed as they are a disgrace to akj. There should be open discussion on this instead of suppressing this issue.Only then we will know the fakes.

This is the 4th post on this thread, and your telling me I'm hijacking it? Okay....

You need to know that these photos relate to a few places controlled by puratan jathebandis where parkash of Dasam granth is done from the beginning. They are continuing that. Parkash of Dasam Granth was also done at akal takhata till 1945 but they discontinued after that whereas Nihungs are continuing old practice. Simce it is sacred bani of tenth master i see nothing wrong in that.

Inspite of your repeated efforts to malign name of Tarlochan singh for advising against parkash, you have failed to provide a reference. Tarlochan singh writes about mistakes committed by Printer Gulab singh where in they write on certain printed copies dasam guru granth instead of Dasma patshah ju ka granth. That no way relates to parkash. So stop fabricating your own stories.

It is quite easy to understand the timing of issuing of statment by akj UK and it is in favour of their darling dhundha whom they call a professor even though he has 10 grade education.

Its still a violation of the Sikh rehat marayda is not? My taksali and nihing brothers are quick to condemn AKJ when they talk about keski and raagmala.

And keski used to be a mandatory kakkar and raagmala was never read at Akal takht, what's your point?

Bottom line is.. Akal takht rehat marayda should be maintained.. And stop cussing other jathebandis if they don't follow same rehat as yours. As long as its not anti gurmat...

If Akal takht say dhunda is allowed to do parchar as long as he doenst talk about controversial issues, who are DDT, AKJ or anyone else to challenge that, unless they can prove he has since talked about such issues. In that case go to the Akal takht, stop acting like hooligans trying to be judge jury and executioner, whether it is in line with your 'jathas' marayada or not..

I am not trying to malign Trilochan singhs name. So are you saying parallel parkash is ok? If not then why are we still arguing this point lol.. That's my interpretation of his writing, just like u interpret AKJ UKs press release to twist them to suit you :D

Parallel parkash does not mean that both granths are being read simultaneously. When parkash of Dasam granth is done, it is done at a lower platform than that of SGGS ji.Palki of Dasam granth sahib is smaller in size than that of SGGS ji. That itself indicates that SGGS has no rival in Dasam Granth sahib.

You have not shown me wherein tarlochan singh wrote that there should be no parkash of Dasam Granth sahib.When queried you just beat about bush by sidetracking the question.

California akhand kirtani jatha who has done a wonderful job in taking on anti Dasam granth brigade in uSA. khalsa panth is proud of such Gursikhs. have not you read what he has written. There are other references provided by me that state the same.

Whom are you kidding here. We know Dhundha came to UK in Nov and visited coventry and was entertained by akj UK.When faced protests akj uk issues a statement defending this heretic in an oblique manner.What does that mean? It shows their anti sikh agenda and disowning Bhai sahib Bhai Randhir singh.

Your first comment doesn't relate to the following pictures, where both SGGS and SDG are parkash on the same takht posh, and being read simultaneuously. Is this not directly inconsistent with the Akal takht Maryada, which states:

c. Placing a pitcher, ceremonial clarified-butter-fed lamp, coconut, etc. around, during the course of the uninterrupted or any other reading of Guru Granth Sahib, or reading of other Scriptural texts side by side with or in the course of such reading is contrary to the gurmat (Guru's way).

Re: Dr. Trilochan Singh: he states "They have written on the title page "Sri Guru Granth Sahib Dasam Patshahi" which seems to be a distortion of Dasam Patshahi ka Granth which is found on most of the old recensions. This Granth was not installed as a guru so it is wrong to call it Guru Granth." Unless you you think our other granths are equal why would you do parallel parkash?

Whilst I personally am not in favour of Dhunda, he is NOT banned by Akal Takht, and AKJ UK statement was in connection with the hooligans who were trying to blackmail the jathedar and get their own way. before you go ff on one, I have heard with my own ears the jathedar say that he was only advising to cancel the one program to calm the atmosphere and there was NO blanket ban.

No body says that Dasam Granth is our Guru. The above is about a mistake in printing by Gulab singh and sons.It does not talk about parallel parkash of Dasam Granth sahib as you were alleging.

I have given you enough references wherein akj.org and akj uk dispute authenticity of Dasam granth sahib.Do not you read what is being posted.Did not you read the cooment here

quote

Sarbjit Expose19 November, 2012 12:16 PM

Fantastic work brothers.

I hope AKJ London is being shown this blog, they need educating the most esp Akj Southall and Akj Slough.

Some are staunchly against Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bani openly and supporting the likes of Sarbjit Dhunda (Esp Onkar Singh and his Father Jaswant Singh).

Big problem for the panth!

unquote

For your reference as you may not be knowing, Anurag singh has old manuscript of Dasam granth shaib at his home that he has kept with great respect and accords special status to bani of Dasam pita.Only a gurnindak will raise non issues such as parkash of dasam granth sahib.

c. Placing a pitcher, ceremonial clarified-butter-fed lamp, coconut, etc. around, during the course of the uninterrupted or any other reading of Guru Granth Sahib, or reading of other Scriptural texts side by side with or in the course of such reading is contrary to the gurmat (Guru's way).

So is the parallel parkash not contrary to the panthic marayada? Are the organisations which are doing this then violating the hukam of the Panth?

Can you refer me to the place in your links where is says AKJ UK not not believe in DG or they support dhunda?? If you cannot, don't keep bearing about the bush..

No one has talked about parkash of Dasam Granth here. So let us not stray from the core issues.Moreover give us reference of Dr tirlochan singh's works where he said so. I know his son very well. As far as he knows Dr Tirlochan singh did not write anything about this since parkash of Dasam granth on sikh takhats was part of old maryada.

Now coming to akj uk unit, whom are we fooling here.It is well known that most of the office bearers are camp followers Dhundha and ragi darshan. We also know the agenda of darshan ragi and dhundha. It is also a fact that there was a statement from akj uk

recently siding openly with dhundha.

Please provide the following;

1. Evidence where AKJ UK EXPLICITLY say they don't believe in DG bani.

2. Where in the dhunda press release they say they support Dhunda?

Re: dr. Trilochan Singh, their family is very good friends of outs and I know Anurag Singh well. Regarding his take on DG:

See http://www.globalgurmat.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/The-History-and-Compilation-of-the-Dasm-Granth.pdf

In 1896 leaders of the Singh Sabha movement found that copies of the Dasam Granth began to differ in the spelling of words. As the copyists knew only Panjabi and not Hindi and Persian they made many mistakes in writing these languages. So a committee of scholars was appointed which prepared an edition to be printed for the first time. They collected some 32 old texts of the Dasam Granth, but they unfortunately left the proof reading to the printers Messrs, Gulab Singh & Sons who in printing have made countless errors which even distort the meaning of the original. Either the scholars who prepared this or the publishers have made two grievous errors:

 They have written on the title page "Sri Guru Granth Sahib Dasam Patshahi" which seems to be a distortion of Dasam Patshahi ka Granth which is found on most of the old recensions. This Granth was not installed as a guru so it is wrong to call it Guru Granth.

 The first verse of the 33 swayas: jagat jot japai nis basar, has been omitted.

This implies that DG is not out guru and should be considered as such, which certain factions are going around claiming.

Actions of a few individuals don't necessarily mean the whole jatha has the same view.

Like dhumma sitting in badals charan giving him ladoo, and changing the printing of Manglacharan, should we say the whole of DDT is corrupt?

Both those videos are actually from UK smagams/UK kirtani, and yet apparently you are saying AKJ UK are against DG. Just saying!

Dr. Trilochan Singh associate of Bhai sahib has writer in favour of DG, but his work also states that it is inappropriate to do parallel parkash, which as far as I am aware is the same view AKJ UK has, which incidentally is also in line with Akal takhat marayada.

So please refrain from making false baseless accusations every so often, unless they have explicitly said se they don't believe in DG...?

as far as i know jathedar sahib has not let dhunda proceed on stages, this is only a statement given by DK, you know is notorious for lying esp on their fb i am witness to many of their lying.....jathedar sahib has banned him from all stages in UK, singh have been banned from enetering the gurdwara

Please prove that's exactly what Jathedar said. Because the reality which I am hearing is that the afghan Gurdwara called up the Jathedar to ask if they could allow him to do a prog there. Jathedar said there was no ban on dhunda and only suggested cancelling the prog last night to not stir the atmosphere more than had already been done. Also apperntly 2-300 people were gonna die if the prog went ahead the Jathedar was told..

Why wasn't there any commotion as the afghan Gurdwara this afternoon? Why only Singh Sabha? Coz Malhi can't stop his dirty politics...

So the same Jathedar which said to cancel the prog to keep peace today said that there was no ban on him doing katha, y are getting your kachera in a twist?

Yesterday was good enough and today it's not?

"Leamington Spa Gurdwara Committee Vows To Hold Akhand Path For Indira Ghandi" - where is the evidence for this statement?

Exactly - this I a very bold statement made to stir people's emotions it's looks like. This issue is very close to the heart of Sikhs and its wrong for these guys to use this as a tool in thier mud slinging.

This is a very sensitive issue and the facts need to be confimred before randomly sending around messages like this.

I have just spoken to someone in the committee there and and as it appears the ex-comittee and present are using this senitive issue to put each other down.

He said that they were NOT planning to hold an akhand paath for Indiara Gandhi and they were not going stop the akhand path at the weekend for the shaheeds, but the issue was around the orgniasers putting posters. The commiittee dont allow anyone to put posters up.

If anyone local has any more info would be appreicieated.

All i am saying is dont jump to conclusions before getting the facts right.

easy solution - stop eating meat in line with guru sahibs hukam

If anyone is able to beat the Gurdev, the Gurdev will denounce his position and the higher skilled person will assume the role of the Akhara Gurdev.

Didn't Niddar already get beaten in India by Uptej Singh from London?

1984 came and went - where were these so called "warriors"?

Beadhbi to our living Guru ( and apprently Niddar's as well) is being carried out constantly - where are the warriors?

Countless sikhs have gone missing since 84 ... the list is endless, but where are only sikh 'warriors?'

oh wait a min - they are too busy inflating their egos by writing books, doing BBC interviews... oh and dont forget looking for the next 'last sikh warrior'.. lol -

Why is he looking for someone, none of his students good enough?

If anyone is able to beat the Gurdev, the Gurdev will denounce his position and the higher skilled person will assume the role of the Akhara Gurdev. For students, if any lesson is repeated more than once, or if you dont learn something new in the class, the Gurdev has nothing more to teach and you may leave. Until now, Ive never had a repeated lesson, and I always learn something new.

EGO EGO EGO!!

He's on Bbc world service in 10 mins at 12.30pm uk time, let's see what new c**p he comes out with..

His latest is 5 kakaars were changed by the British, they weren't 5 k's at all, they were 5 shaster...?

He is very clever at marketing his ideology, without 'appearing' to step over the line, Perhaps someone should take up this matter with the Akal takht. He's the biggest con there is.

I did attend some talks at the exhibition:

• He didn't wear his kara throughout
  
• He belives that Baba Deep Singh was re-incarnated as Maharaja ranjit singh. Interestingly though on his website he has challenged that Bhai fauja singh used to be a soldier in baba deep singh's fauj, but somehow Nidar knows that baba deep singh came back as Maharaja ranjit singh. Weirdo!
  
• They had some very controversial paintings - like singhs form of relaxtion was to watch girls dancing. So if i go and take a picture of some singhs in a club dancing, i could claim in 100 years that this is what sikhi is? Also it's not even a picture it's a painting, my little brother could draw a better picture.
  

I mean come on people - the guy is wearing a red dot on his forehead - what sikh do you know that does that?

I call him a BOD (Bahmin in Disguise), no disrepect to the Hindu brothers out there, but this fanatic is trying to re-write sikhi to say we are apart of Hinduism - which is NOT the case!

And last sikh warrior? OK Niddar.

People like Baba Nihal Singh, who have actually given something to the sikh panth are still alive!! You giddar saab are a disgrace!

Period!

It's a Joke!

Like that painting they had of singhs sitting there 'after war' with girls dancing in front of them, and drinking wine. That was portrayed as 'Guru Gobind Singh's Sikhs'.. Whats the point of displaying things like thatwhen then are anti sikhi.

I can go into a club, take picture of 'singhs' drinking and dacncing with girls, then in a 100 years say this is what sikhs used to do... total and utter BS!

I wonder how many of these guys who were involved in the exhibition and did the talks are actually practising sikhs?

I heard Niddar didn't even have his kara on during his presentation, and his latest revalation (which he mentioned that day) is that Baba deep singh ji was reincarnated as Maharaja Ranjit Singh? Most of the people asking questions that day were probably planned.. like mr. yankee doodle, who has been niddar's chela for years and he asked him "are you the only person who teaches shaster vidya in the whole world?".

These lot are a bunch of jokers!

All there research is clouded and they just make up whatever they want so people believe them, because they don't know any better.

Stop pulling the wool over peoples eyes Nangs!!

Just because Diwali is mentioned doesn't mean Sikhs believe in it.. Lol. And it's in Bhai gurdas jis vaaran not SGGS.

Just cause bani mentions Vishnu, shiva, does it mean we believe in them? Maybe if you a nang actually.

But take the Shabad in the context it is written.. Bhai sahib is highliting rituals which were apparent in those times and as already said the gurmukhs are happy spending time reciting the true naam, which the essence of the Shabad, and not the lightning of candles etc

ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨਿਯੋ || ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤਿ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਿਯੋ ||

O God ! the day when I caught hold of your feet, I do not bring anyone else under my sight; none other is liked by me now; the Puranas and the Quran try to know Thee by the names of Ram and Rahim and talk about you through several stories, but I do not accept any of their opinions;

ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਯੋ || ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਪਾਨਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਹਿਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਿਯੋ ||੮੬੩||

The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas describe several mysteries of yours, but I do not agree with any of them. O sword-wielder God! This all has been described by Thy Grace, what power can I have to write all this?

Apologies, i didn't mean hindu in a derogatory way. I have nothing against true hindu's. What i meant is people who are trying to change sikh ideals to infiltrate, like certain right wing 'hindu' parties like the RSS etc.

If you a hindu be a true Hindu (Guru Nanak Dev ji).

A very well put together article:

http://panthic.org/articles/4518

Go to the next amrit sanchar and present yourself in front of the panj. They will decide if you can take amrit.

Lol why dont u lot just grow up.

Theres nothing wrong with Going to an exhibition to see art and educate yourself about your history , forget about the bloody politics and the niddar rubbish. Just go there and look at the display.

Too many narrow minded people here...

Lol - why don't you get a life! Who said there was anything wrong with going to the exhibition. That's not the problem - go to the exhibition, noone stopping you - I have been myself. The pics and artefacts they show are probably all genuine and really good.

The problem, my friend is when they start telling you the history in the way they see it, i.e. it was all different to todays sikhi before the english raaj, blah blah... the way they see is flawed and what they are trying to do is manipulate people into thinking sikhi is something it is not! i.e worship hindu gods.

Now you won't neccesarily pick this up unless you are aware - because their marketing and presentation is very good and hiding their real agenda, but enough to start putting doubts in peoples minds...