Kizza Kaur

hes bin suspended now tho....

Kizza Kaur lol Sikh Supreme helped out one or ten girls, and? Doesnt mean he should stop now.

thats what im saying, im saying that just because sikh supreme helped out one gal, dont mean that he shudn help out other gals. one or ten dont matter, every person counts. im not saying that sikh supreme or anyone else should give up on anyone.

and i think its good that you'v got the attitude where u dont give up on people, thats the way it should be in my opinion.

In the end

Does it realyl matter who you marry... If you marry a good amritdhari person who is close to God, do the details really matter, like looks, background, family, the amount of seva she or he does, how involved she or he is in panthic matters, how big their name is how well known they are, do any of these things even matter in the end? Isn't it just like, whoever you marry has God in them anyways and we are just getting married to the light inside of that person so it doesn't realy matter who the person is?

Why are some people so selective like I want taht singhnee I want this singhnee, or I want class A singh and if he doesn't fit in that category 100% then it wont go ... Isnt marriage and 'partnership' simply about teh Guru and the light inside the other person? And doesnt everyone have that light, so thers no point in being so selective?

thats what the situation should be, in a perfect world. but we are not living in a perfect world. me personally, i belev that a person should only be selective when it comes to personality. choose someone you are compatible with, as in personality wise. ur not and should not be marrying a person for their looks, wealth, status etc. all these can be taken away in a flash, but a persons personality is the one thing that can make or break, in this case a marriage.

and your right in my opinion, marriage is a partnership, and a person should consider only their prospective partners personality. but i guess everyone has their own veiws on this, different things are important to different people, so to each his own.

I will continue to inform young impressionable girls, who I come across, about straying from Sikhi but if they don't appreciate it, then God will be my witness, I did my best to inform them.

thats all anyone can do

they have only themselves to blame like I said people should learn the consequences of their actions.

I offer my sympathy to girls who have learnt the hard way what straying from Sikhi does...and I respect you for warning other girls not to take similar actions.

i totally agree wiv ya

and now i can see where your coming from, cos u tried to help a gal out but she ended up doin again. i get what your saying now, but what i wana say is that just cos that one gal didn learn from her mistakes, dont mean that another gal wont. mayb anova gal (hopefully ther wont b another gal) will learn from her mistake and appreciate what u done for her. dont give up on gals who have messed up.

u gotz some good points of veiw to share

I doubt very much girls would forgive a guy for his past similarly most guys wouldnt either... that is why most guys prefer virgiin girls who have not past that would haunt them in later life.

Like I said you reap wot you sow.... it all comes back full circle. That past sooner or later catches up with you. If not now then later on in life when you have arguments with you partner and the past is dragged up or maybe your kids will do exactly wot you've done in the past and you arent able to control them sincerely because you've done the exact same things and your kids turn around and say if you did it why can't I.

It's clear some of you dont' have foresight to the future...because if we tolerate this kind of behaviour, which it seems we are increasingly, then we will tolerate all kinds of crap in the future only to the determent of our faith and community.

im not most girls, im me, so i can only speak for myself, and i would be willing to forgive and forget. i would prefer my husband to be a <admin-profanity filter activated>, but as i say, we dont always get what we want, and so must be willing accept a person for who they are and not on who they were.

i totally agree with you on the whole what you reap you sow. the past does catch up with you, i totally agree, but then thats Gods way of punishing us in a way, its not for people to punish others, thats for Big G to do. God dont hold a belna to our heads, not one that we can see neway, so when we do mess up, itl kinda dictate the future. to me, the past is best left in the past.

i mayb wrong, or mayb im confused, but thers a difference in tolerating something, and not judging others. i dont tolerate this kinda act, but i wont judge that person.

i think in general i totally agree with you on certain tings sikh supreme, but my approach to tings are a lil different to you.

Im not implying you do those things...chill...lol

I was saying about those OTHER "sikh" girls who seem to think its acceptable to do what they do.

Listen if a Sikh guy played around and slept with muslim girls and then come to for marriage... you still gonna have that unconditional love for him as a Sikh or are you going to be a hypocritc ?

oh right, my bad!!!

if that guy sorted himself out, and was leading a good clean life, then yes i would consider him. why should a person be forver judged on their past? its the present thats counts. if he's leading a good life, has accepted that what he did was wrong, and would never do it again, then thats good enough for me. judge the person on who the ARE, not on who they WERE. thats just the way i think, mayb its wrong to some people, but its just the way i think.

Yes we are all human...we do stupid things.... but what kind of message are we sending out if we accept girls who slag about... what does that say for the furture. Do you want your kids to slag about too? Because by being soft that is exactly what will happen.

You must be firm against this.... I can't believe some female member of this board have so little concept of self-respect. Compared to Muslim girls they would be quite upfront and tell you "we dont go clubbing, drinking, because we have self respect for ourselves and it's against our religion". I admire these qualities in girls who have this kind of attitude. But ask your average todays "modern Sikh girl"... they are like "yeah I drink , I go clubbing so what?" ... need I say more?

hahahahaha!!!!! u tryna imply i go clubbing and that?!!!!! wow im surprised, thats the funniest ting iv heard all day, a person shows abit of concideration for others, and people start implying they drink and go clubbing, i supose the next ting ur gna say is that im a slag aswell?

oh and you wana chat about self-respect, il tel u i have self-respect, i get asked out all the time by muslims, but iv NEVER gone out wiv em, and would never go out wiv em, that gud enough for you?

just because i think we shouldnt give the death penalty to gals who do this, dont mean that im not firm in this. if my daughter did this id kick her <admin-profanity filter activated>!!! nah but seriously, i belev sikhs in general should be brought up as individuals, and to take responsabilty for their own actions, but that dont mean that we cant be their for them when they fall.

like i said, its all about blood, and family (sikhi is ur family), a person who has the attitude you seem to portray, shows conditional love. as in, you'l only love someone if they are good and live up to ur expectations. to me this aint right. you love someone through thick and thin. and when i say love, i mean the love between famly, friends etc.

WJKK WJKF

QUOTE(sikh supreme @ Oct 17 2005, 01:16 PM)

If they were sisters of faith, they would never get involved with non-sikhs full stop.

These girls have only themselves to blame no one is forcing them to go out with anyone, or indulge in anti-sikh activties. They CHOSEN to do what they have done. So let them take responsibility for their actions. They are grown up arent  they? or are they babies who need to be wrapped up in cotton wool?

I'm harsh on this issue because I and alot of brothers and sisters I know are fed up with these kind of girls. Their is nothing Sikh about them. Let future generation of these kind of girls realise that you reep what you sow.... so that they learn from mistakes of other girls why its not a gud idea to slag about.

Spot on. Every action has a reaction.

im going to agree with you to a certain degree, but i dont think that it is right for people to judge others for their mistakes. some mistakes have greater consequences than others, but at the end of the day, its a still a mistake.

we're all human, and we all fall now and again, but how are we to pick ourselves back up if we're constantly being put down by others? who can we turn to?

yeh ok so is was stupid for the girl to go out and tek tings far with the muslim guy, but i think there's more to this. we're not robots, we have all feelings, and sometimes these can lead us astray, but when we're in it, we cant see it, and we cant see that we're doing something wrong, because it feels right at that moment in time.

yeh sinner, every action has a reaction, thats true, but like i said, hard times can make a person do something that they wouldnt normally do, stress etc play a major role.

having said this, i think this penji has some real guts, i think she is someone who has learnt the hard way, and sometimes although its hard to accept, its the only way a person can learn, and im saying this from personal experiences (and before anyone says, no i havnt bin out with a muslim guy).

And I believe strongly in that no matter how much we turn our back on Guru Ji, Guru Ji WILL NEVER turn their back on us, so who are we are ‘sikh brother and sisters’ to think that we are SO big and SO clever and SO clean to do turn our backs on someone who has fallen? Think about it, and for Gods sake get off your high horses.

lekha dhena plays a big role too, we don’t see it, and we cant explain it, but it happens, and it does in some ways and to some extent dictate what happens to us.

my point is, some people on this site are very quick to judge others, but i think they should take a step back, get off their high horse, and think about what their saying, because your not talking about robots, your talking about HUMANS.

Someone on here was chatting bout how muslims take care of their own, how they take care and look at for their sisters (as in other muslim gals), well don’t people on here think that our brothers should be on the same for us? And I don’t just mean ‘oh if you go out with anyone il break ur legs’. That aint helping, that’s threatening. Sikh gals need to feel their protected, not under surveillance. Trust me, it isn’t a nice feeling.

and the title says that we're (girls) are sikhisms worst enemy, well we are if we go to such extremes. Sikhism to me is about strength, strength of character etc, and an act like this shows only weakness. Sikh gals need to know who they are, they are the daughters of a religion and race of warriors, in both the literal and philosophical sense, we need to remember, embrace and uphold this. But us as Sikhs need to remember that we’re all BLOOD, so what kind of a family disowns one of their own?

sory, this post was abit tooooo long, but it just gets me about the way people are quick to judge and disown others.

me mams the bestest mam in the world!!!!!!!!!!! love me mam to bits, and i thank Big G for blessing me wiv an angel for a mother. she a gud strong person, who has been through some very very very hard times, but she still comes out strong. she my role model. taught me loadsa tings....and i ent just talking bout how to make the roti and dhall sabji!!!!! daughters learn alot from their mams, they jus gta learn to appreciate what their mams do for them!!!!!!

thankfully, me and ma mam get along great, we a team, im her strength, just as she is mine.

she the one thing ima cry ova when i get married!!!!!!!

but then thers ma dad....... now therz a completely different story!!!!!! (best left for anova tym!!!)

Hapily Burfday to ya, may Big G bless ya etc etc etc...!!!!

ENJOY!!!

Hapy Burfday

GOD BLESS YA

:TH:

NO YOU HAVE GOT ME WRONG

I NEVER SAID I WISH TO EXPOSE HIM!

WHAT I MEAN IS IF IT COMES TO THE POINT WHERE HE GETS ANGRY ETC AND STARTS PRETENDING NOTHING IS GOING ON AND BRINGS IT TO THE ATTENTION OF HIS FAMILY THAT THIS IS WHAT I AM SAYING THENNNNN I WOULD NOT CARE IF THEY NEVER WANTED TO TALK TO ME AGAIN ETC

AS FOR THE CONFRONTATION I SHOULD HAVE PHRASED MYSELF BETTER

WHAT I MEAN IS IN WHAT MANNER DO I APPROACH HIM HOW DO I BRING THE SUBJECT UP

WHEN IS THE RIGHT MOMENT? THAT KINDA THING

THAT'S WHY I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE BETTER COMING FROM AN "ELDER" I.E. MY DAD

IN MY MASSAR'S EYES I AM JUST A KID WHO KNOWS NO BETTER

oh right!! ma bad!! well u say that ur amritdhari, so u can use that as an excuse to start chattin bout what bein amritdhari means to u. u can then go onto tings like drinking, smoking etc, and then u can ask him his veiws on the matter. if mayb u can get him talking about drinking and being amritdhari, but make it sound like he is 'teaching' u by giving his opinions, then ther is no need to bring in someone else to sort him out. if he talks about it to u, then u mite b able to understand why he drinks, and then u mite b able to find out how u can help him.

itz like itz beta to seem like u wana no his opinions on drinking, than to make him think that ur preaching to him. but stay calm, i understand that u mite wana get all angry wiv him (especially if he starts getting all hypocritical), but the key is to stay calm.

all the best.

i know this may seem like a stupid question, but what is ur motive for exposing ur masser? why do u feel that it is ur job to expose his beadbi? i can understand that u may be feeling hurt, for urself and for the khalsa, cos i have been in a similar situation myself, but instead of exposing him, shudn u be encouraging him bak onto the right path? he will pay for what he has done wen his tym comes.

I just wondered if it was allowed to go out with a pakistani muslim girl who i've grown really close to at uni.

I'm shaven Sikh guy and dont follow sikhi to the letter but I do value my religion. I just wondered if a relationship with a girl, who isnt Sikh, was allowed. And if not how do I do I overcome the feelings for her. 

Ppl dnt really understand issues like this as being delicate. some ppl 4get that at the end of the day we are all human and that we do tend to have feelings that we shudn hav. having said this, ppl who are harsh and put us down for having these feelings, do so for a reason. that being that the girl u say u like, is not sikh. therefore any proper proposals which u may want to make in the future, will not be allowed. secondly us as sikhs should demonstrate self control etc.

at the end of the day, u having a relationshp wiv this gal is not allowed, by anyone's standards. now u need to decide if u wana accept this. if u dnt, then may God watch ova u, but if u do accept this, half the battle is won.

the next step would be to actually get ova this gal. no-one is saying that u cannot talk to her, staying mates wiv her may actually be a gud idea, but each person is different and handles things in different ways. i dont tink anyone can give advice on how to get ova someone, its jus something that you'v gota do by urself.

all the best.

Here are some questions that may help in guiding you: What is causing this sadness, is there a cause? What thoughts are you having when this happens? How long has it been going on? Are you getting any support from a councellor, family, friends? Has this type of sadness happenned to you before? If you have a history of these types of unexplainable episodes, it might be a good idea to talk to a councellor, it might be chemical.

As for what can help, family, friends, councellors, Sangat, Ardaas (!!)... for support. Keeping busy doing things can also keep the mind into action, so Seva, helping parents do stuff, maybe some introspection to find the cause of this dis-stress you are having... then we can tackle and take care of the root of what is wrong~~~?

i hope ive helped a bit~~ if you want to talk more, feel free to pm me.

Good advice here, especially wiv the keeping busy part. i often find myself slipping into depression mode aswell. buy sum tissues, hav a cry, get it out ur system then get doin somet constructive. sumtymes for me tinking bout what and why somet is depressing me, depresses me even more!!!!

hav faith, and keep busy, and always SMILE!!!!!

I wish I could just have my own place somewhere right now away from the grief im getting at home..... but I dont  .... Anyone feel the same? any advice?

lolz, if i had a penny for everytym i felt lyk tht, id be livin it up!!!!

if u no tht ur mum is giving u grief for no reason, then jus stand ther while shez having a go, nod a few times to indicate ur listnin, and then jus go about ur busines!!!! tht way shez sed wateva she wantd to say, n ur not teking anything to heart.

sumtymes parents give grief, but us as their kidz gta learn how to tek it and b beta ppl for it.

SMILE!!!!

ok so...

i still dont know what to do.

i need majority to help me. Please give me straight answer. Parents or guy.

Parents meaning i marry that guy and i may or may not tell him because then the whole world will know and my parents may or may not disown me.

Guy, meaning i leave my parents and most of my family will never talk to me, and maybe later we can work on getting everyone back.

which way do i go ...

all boils down to which do u hold greater love for? do u love ur parents more than ur guy? or do u love ur guy more than ur parents? alot of gals have bin in this situation, trus me i no more bout this kinda thing than u think!!! only u can answer this question, no-one here on this site or anywhere else can tel u wat ONLY YOU know and feel.

wateva u do, someone is gna get hurt, if u choose ur guy, ul get hurt cos ur family wil get hurt n u say they wil disown u. if u choose ur parents, u n ur guy wil get hurt.

therz no easy option here. personally, i no wat i wud choose, because i feel that it is the right thing to do, but it is not my choice, itz urz, so u knowing wat ppl on this site would do, is of no consequence.

once u have made ur decision, dnt eva look back and dnt even think about having regrets. this is the only way that ul b content. thts the only piece of advice i feel i can give u.

i wish u all the best.

hapy burfday

GOD BLESS YA!!!!

Wjkk Wjkf

Back to the original post,

Hi All!

What I wanted to cover is this seeming fanaticism among young Sikhs raised within western cultures. It seems as if either you’re not sikh or you’re overly sikh.

The things I want to cover:

1) Facial hair obsession with respect to sikh women. If you’re a girl and you shave or wax then you’re not sikh.

2) If you’re a woman and you don’t wear a turban then you’re not sikh.

3) If you’re a guy and you don’t wear a turban then you’re not a sikh.

4) Numerous references to being guru ji’s prince and princesses?!?!? What?!? This is all new to me, sorry if I don’t follow.

5) This whole taksaal thing now what is that all about. Just because Sikhism in a small way was defended by the jathedar we all know and love (Bhindrinwale) doesn’t make that taksaal the end all and be all of Sikhism.

For every thousand men that attack the leaves of a tree (problem) only one man attacks the roots.

I truly believe that this taksaal stuff has got to end, along with all of these baabas. I find that Sikhs are more and more focusing on their outward appearance in order to impress each other or how many hours of path they can do etc..

Please focus on yourself since Sikhism is an inward journey of personal self discovery and union with god.

I don’t remember the Guru granth sahib chatting about how big someone’s turban is or which aunti has the longest beard. Lets face it, beards, turbans and moustaches on women do not look attractive. Wear either at your own peril, either you will look foolish or worse. If you’ve read this far you’ll be happy to know I'm a guy and I wear a turban and have been a proud sikh for many years.

I wanted to respond to all the <banned word filter activated> on this board because I’m frankly fed up with this new found western fanaticism. Get a life, read and understand the guru granth sahib and then come back and talk to me. I write this because last week we had some family over at my house for dinner. My girl cousins who are sikh but cut their hair had a chance encounter at my house with my dad’s family friends who’s daughters wear turbans. My girl cousins are rather fashion conscious and very good looking, but are not wild drinking party animals. However the girls wearing turbans treated them as if they were wh**s who had no morals whatsoever. It was as if they acted and this is a quote “Guru ji’s princesses” and above anyone who doesn’t wear a turban. GET A LIFE! That’s how you drive away anyone who may even be remotely interested in the religion.

As for being Khalastani, well first someone explain to me what khalistan will be and then maybe I’ll believe in it. Not some utopian society, but lets face it the same people who run the gurudwaras will be running khalistan. Trust me it will be that bad, would you move there? I think not. If you’re silly enough to think I’m some non-sikh, writing this then you are even beyond hope. Give me some clear answers and a rational discussion not uptopian societies and superficial benchmarks regarding faith. Or is it always going to be the one with the longest beard and biggest turban wins? Trust me our parents have been at it for generations, nothing new, same old same old. Just that we’re fighting with each other in English.

Ok im gna approach this systematically cos all these posts are giving me a headache!!!

1) Facial hair obsession with respect to sikh women. If you’re a girl and you shave or wax then you’re not sikh.

With regards to facial hair on women. At the end of the day, women (and men) should not remove ANY hair from ANYWHERE on their person. This is standard, and cannot and should not be questioned, cos ovawise ur just questioning ur Guru. I wont bring up quotes cos a lot of people have already done that!!!! However, some women feel that they are unable to cope with their excess hair in ‘unwanted’ places, and so they do remove it. This is their personal choice and so we cannot question their tendencies. It is not up to us to condemn them in any way, even if we appear to follow our guidelines to the last detail. Who are we to question them? Same goes to sureal69, you have said in ur posts that it disgusts you to see women with facial hair, but who are you to condemn them for what they believe? That is just ur personal opinion, which you by all means are entitled to. No-one is saying that if ur a woman and u shave etc that you are not a Sikh, however is just means that these women have not fully embraced their faith. Also, women with facial hair are not attractive? In my opinion, we will all be paired up with the one we have been destined to, so our personal appearance does not come into it. Its fate. Also, beauty is in the eye of the beholder!!!

2) If you’re a woman and you don’t wear a turban then you’re not Sikh.

I myself come from an amritdhari family, but I myself am not amritdhari just yet and do not wear a dastaar. Some of the women I know who are amritdhari do not wear a dastaar. Having read some posts on this site iv learnt that women should wear a dastaar as part of their identity, to enforce equality amongst men and women. This is why Guru Ji said their SIKHS (therefore men and women) should wear a dastaar. However, for whatever reason, some women feel that they cannot do this, or perhaps have not been brought up to believe this etc. there are many different reasons, but again it all boils down to the actual person. We as the general public cannot and should not try to impose our beliefs on others, or mock anyone in any way. Sureal69, you say that u find women who wear a dastaar unattractive, but again this boils down to ur personal preference. I know a good many who find women with dastaars more attractive than those without – its their personal opinion.

3) If you’re a guy and you don’t wear a turban then you’re not a Sikh.

What is a Sikh? A soul waiting to be taught, a learner/disciple. If we were all perfect right from the start, why would we be born in this janum? The fact of the matter is, all men should wear a dastaar. End of. However if some do not, again it is their own personal choice, let them be if that’s what they want. By all means show them the true path, BUT do not force them onto it. I believe that if ur a guy and you do not wear a dastaar, then u are still a Sikh, but one that has not fully embraced their faith.

4) Numerous references to being guru ji’s prince and princesses?!?!? What?!? This is all new to me, sorry if I don’t follow.

Kaur = princess

Singh = lion BUT Singhs and Kaurs are brother and sister, therefore princess and prince!!!! Jus some affectionate terminology (I tink!!). Guru Gobind Singh Ji proclaims that all Sikhs are their sons and daughters (at Chamkaur). Guru Gobind Singh Ji is royalty, we are royalties children, therefore we are all princes and princesses, again affectionate terms with powerful meaning.

To me, a person’s outward appearance is EQUALLY important to a person’s inner quality. A person should not focus on one, without nurturing the other. So in some ways, I agree with sureal69, because there are a lot of people who do jus focus on their outward appearance, and not on their inner self, and visa versa.

My girl cousins who are sikh but cut their hair had a chance encounter at my house with my dad’s family friends who’s daughters wear turbans. My girl cousins are rather fashion conscious and very good looking, but are not wild drinking party animals. However the girls wearing turbans treated them as if they were wh**s who had no morals whatsoever. It was as if they acted and this is a quote “Guru ji’s princesses” and above anyone who doesn’t wear a turban. GET A LIFE! That’s how you drive away anyone who may even be remotely interested in the religion.

This was clearly wrong, the gals wiv the dastaars should not have done this. Clearly these gals have a lot to learn about pride etc, and I second ur comment That’s how you drive away anyone who may even be remotely interested in the religion. How can people be brought into Sikhi, if they are constantly being condemned? SIKHI SHOULD BE EMBRACED WHOLE HEARTEDLY, NOT IMPOSED UPON BY OTHERS.

However, sureal69, how can you judge all gals who wear a dastaars on the actions of a few? I know a few gals who wear dastaars, all from different families, and they are some of the nicest people eva. A persons appearance does not dictate his or hers personality, so to say that all gals who wear dastaars consider themselves to be better than those who do not, is an ignorant comment to make.

The question of fanaticism…. I think what sureal69 is tryna emphasise on is the fact that many people just wanna show how ‘Sikh’ they are with their appearance e.g. who’s got the biggest Kara etc.

Contrary to what a lot of people on this site think, I believe that sureal69 is a very intelligent person with perhaps controversial beliefs, but still they are important. I think that sureal69 has brought up a lot of interesting issues.

if iv offended anyone, ma bad!!!!!

Wjkk Wjkf

nice to know that people on sikh sangat take a positive approach to it, because many men take lavaa to mean that their wife should obey them, and that they have a right over them in a negative way. but newayz, thanx for the info.

By the Guru's infinite and unparalleled grace and kindness she had single-handedly overturned a sure defeat for the Khalsa into an overwhelming victory.

Jus goes to show that EVERY SINGLE sikh counts, be they man or woman, as long as they have true love and devotion for their Guru.

Dayh Shiva bar mohe ehai, subh karman tay kabhoon na taro. Na daro ar so jab jaa-e laro, nischai kar apanee jeet karo. Ar sikh ho aapnay hee man hau, eh lalach hao gun tao ucharo. Jab aav kee a-odh nidhaan banai, at hee ran mai tab joojh maro. 231. (Guru Gobind Singh)

Give me this boon Lord, that I never refrain from righteous deeds. That I have no fear when fighting the enemy, That I attain victory with faith and fortitude, That I keep your teachings close to my mind. Lord, my desire is that I sing your praises and when the end of this life draws near, may I die fighting, with limitless courage in the battlefield.

They really lived up to this.

yep, im at it agen, tears in my eyes...!

i agree, powerful, jus goes to show dnt it. gotz tears in my eyes agen!