H4RPAL
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Posts posted by H4RPAL
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Yea I'm confused as well.
The notion of this post is to compromise, not to distinguish between whether kes should be a kakaar or keski a kakaar. Ofcourse admin is gonna close this topic if it turns into another debate between kes and keski
If Guru Nanak gave men and women equal status in Sikhi, then why do only men wear a dastaar?
Sikhi, Turban and WomanOnce, I met a Western lady in Sydney and she asked me about my religion prompted by my Turban. I tried to explain to her as much as possible. I share a comment she made to me.
“So Muslims cover their women with Burka and Sikhs cover their men by a Turban”
This really made me think. I had thought all these years that we are treated equally in Sikh religion but what is this. I started thinking. The following points came to my mind -
a) In Sikh Religion all rules are common between man and woman. Women enjoy as much as spiritual bliss as would a man. Then why should a man wear a turban and woman need not? Is it something to do with spirituality, custom, circumstances, social behaviour?
b) A man passes through challenging times because of his turban. Over a period of time, a man becomes strong defending his turban and his style of dressing up. He also becomes proud as he has to defend himself all the time and conduct with some self-esteem – just to justify why he is turbaned.
c) How can a woman who has always lived like any other female in the society with freedom to do whatever with her hair (pony tail, jhurra, colouring, trimming, waxing, etc) ever understand the psychology of a Sikh turbaned man and what he passes through in daily life? How can she ever be his partner or companion, when she has herself not been strengthened over the years? So, I am not surprised when Sikh girls choose non-Sikhs boys in marriage.
d) Many Sikh Girls marry muslim boys and live the rest of their lives wearing burkas. Muslims are the fastest growing religion of the world and I have seen Muslim women fiercely defend wearing of the Burka. So, if we are logically consistent and transparent about the universal applicability of our Turbans, why our Sikh women will not wear a turban with pride. Afterall, American sikh women conduct themselves with such dignity and feminine grace, though wearing a Turban.
e) Can a Female who enjoys all the freedom like any other neighboring woman of non-Sikh religion impart Sikh values to her child. Let me clarify, can a woman who shaves her legs, waxes her face and trims her eye-brows tell her son not to trim his beard. Can such a woman tell her husband not to wear a Topi or a baseball cap?
f) Since the times of Guru Nanak, woman were accorded equality in spirituality. Is Turban something to do with our concept of spirituality. I am not sure, but from history I understand that during the bad times for the Sikhs, the head of the woman was also priced as the head of a young sikh teenager, as both used to be turbaned. Is this True? Also, some one mentioned that before 1921 all amritdhari women were also advised to wear a turban. Is this true?
g) American sikh women wear a turban and are so steadfast in their faith. Why did Yogiji insist that Sikh women wear a Turban? Even in India, many Groups ask their women to wear a Turban?
Not all people believe that turban is neccesarry for women ( I'm not saying whether I do or don't), so the indicated post could spurn a discussion around this subject that will inevitably touch upon the issue of whether kesh or keski is kakkar,a nd hence breach the rules of the forum.
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Yea I'm confused as well.
The notion of this post is to compromise, not to distinguish between whether kes should be a kakaar or keski a kakaar. Ofcourse admin is gonna close this topic if it turns into another debate between kes and keski
If Guru Nanak gave men and women equal status in Sikhi, then why do only men wear a dastaar?
Sikhi, Turban and WomanOnce, I met a Western lady in Sydney and she asked me about my religion prompted by my Turban. I tried to explain to her as much as possible. I share a comment she made to me.
“So Muslims cover their women with Burka and Sikhs cover their men by a Turban”
This really made me think. I had thought all these years that we are treated equally in Sikh religion but what is this. I started thinking. The following points came to my mind -
a) In Sikh Religion all rules are common between man and woman. Women enjoy as much as spiritual bliss as would a man. Then why should a man wear a turban and woman need not? Is it something to do with spirituality, custom, circumstances, social behaviour?
b) A man passes through challenging times because of his turban. Over a period of time, a man becomes strong defending his turban and his style of dressing up. He also becomes proud as he has to defend himself all the time and conduct with some self-esteem – just to justify why he is turbaned.
c) How can a woman who has always lived like any other female in the society with freedom to do whatever with her hair (pony tail, jhurra, colouring, trimming, waxing, etc) ever understand the psychology of a Sikh turbaned man and what he passes through in daily life? How can she ever be his partner or companion, when she has herself not been strengthened over the years? So, I am not surprised when Sikh girls choose non-Sikhs boys in marriage.
d) Many Sikh Girls marry muslim boys and live the rest of their lives wearing burkas. Muslims are the fastest growing religion of the world and I have seen Muslim women fiercely defend wearing of the Burka. So, if we are logically consistent and transparent about the universal applicability of our Turbans, why our Sikh women will not wear a turban with pride. Afterall, American sikh women conduct themselves with such dignity and feminine grace, though wearing a Turban.
e) Can a Female who enjoys all the freedom like any other neighboring woman of non-Sikh religion impart Sikh values to her child. Let me clarify, can a woman who shaves her legs, waxes her face and trims her eye-brows tell her son not to trim his beard. Can such a woman tell her husband not to wear a Topi or a baseball cap?
f) Since the times of Guru Nanak, woman were accorded equality in spirituality. Is Turban something to do with our concept of spirituality. I am not sure, but from history I understand that during the bad times for the Sikhs, the head of the woman was also priced as the head of a young sikh teenager, as both used to be turbaned. Is this True? Also, some one mentioned that before 1921 all amritdhari women were also advised to wear a turban. Is this true?
g) American sikh women wear a turban and are so steadfast in their faith. Why did Yogiji insist that Sikh women wear a Turban? Even in India, many Groups ask their women to wear a Turban?
BTW I'm not saying either camp is right or wrong in terms of what is the kakkar, as that is of course against forum rules. I'm simply saying that this proposed compromise fails to work when you think about it- the compromise actually supports the notion of keski as essential, which is a belief not shared byy both camps.
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Yea I'm confused as well.
The notion of this post is to compromise, not to distinguish between whether kes should be a kakaar or keski a kakaar. Ofcourse admin is gonna close this topic if it turns into another debate between kes and keski
If Guru Nanak gave men and women equal status in Sikhi, then why do only men wear a dastaar?
Sikhi, Turban and WomanOnce, I met a Western lady in Sydney and she asked me about my religion prompted by my Turban. I tried to explain to her as much as possible. I share a comment she made to me.
“So Muslims cover their women with Burka and Sikhs cover their men by a Turban”
This really made me think. I had thought all these years that we are treated equally in Sikh religion but what is this. I started thinking. The following points came to my mind -
a) In Sikh Religion all rules are common between man and woman. Women enjoy as much as spiritual bliss as would a man. Then why should a man wear a turban and woman need not? Is it something to do with spirituality, custom, circumstances, social behaviour?
b) A man passes through challenging times because of his turban. Over a period of time, a man becomes strong defending his turban and his style of dressing up. He also becomes proud as he has to defend himself all the time and conduct with some self-esteem – just to justify why he is turbaned.
c) How can a woman who has always lived like any other female in the society with freedom to do whatever with her hair (pony tail, jhurra, colouring, trimming, waxing, etc) ever understand the psychology of a Sikh turbaned man and what he passes through in daily life? How can she ever be his partner or companion, when she has herself not been strengthened over the years? So, I am not surprised when Sikh girls choose non-Sikhs boys in marriage.
d) Many Sikh Girls marry muslim boys and live the rest of their lives wearing burkas. Muslims are the fastest growing religion of the world and I have seen Muslim women fiercely defend wearing of the Burka. So, if we are logically consistent and transparent about the universal applicability of our Turbans, why our Sikh women will not wear a turban with pride. Afterall, American sikh women conduct themselves with such dignity and feminine grace, though wearing a Turban.
e) Can a Female who enjoys all the freedom like any other neighboring woman of non-Sikh religion impart Sikh values to her child. Let me clarify, can a woman who shaves her legs, waxes her face and trims her eye-brows tell her son not to trim his beard. Can such a woman tell her husband not to wear a Topi or a baseball cap?
f) Since the times of Guru Nanak, woman were accorded equality in spirituality. Is Turban something to do with our concept of spirituality. I am not sure, but from history I understand that during the bad times for the Sikhs, the head of the woman was also priced as the head of a young sikh teenager, as both used to be turbaned. Is this True? Also, some one mentioned that before 1921 all amritdhari women were also advised to wear a turban. Is this true?
g) American sikh women wear a turban and are so steadfast in their faith. Why did Yogiji insist that Sikh women wear a Turban? Even in India, many Groups ask their women to wear a Turban?
LOL people!! Think for a second about your compromise here, it isn't one!!
People who support keski as kakkar say they also need unshorn kesh rite???? Nobody says keski is kakkar so you can cut your kesh, hence the term "Kes with Keski" would be fine for proponents of keski as kakkar.
However, there is another school of belief that does not see keski as essential, and hence, they should not ( if they think about it) be comfortable with the term "Kes with Keski" as this suggests keski is mandatory alongside kesh, something they appear not to believe in.
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This would only be acceptable if there was unanimous agreement that keski was essential, but this is not the case in reality.
This approach would be fine for the proponents of keski, as no keski proponent suggests kesh is not neccessary, but on the other side, there are those that state kesh is a kakkar who think that as a result keski is not neccessary.
In this manner, it would in essence be no different to suggesting full on that keski and not kesh is kakkar.
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Just discovered this brilliant website which counters some of the nonsense propogated by Mcleod, Feneche and Co.
http://www.globalsikhstudies.net
This site has some excellent essays by Jagjit Singh, that must be read by our youth, and act as a basis for countering attacks on the very basis of Sikhism.
Attacks such asd that by Mcleod, that our Guru's were merely sheep, who followed the whims of their followers!
Must Read, for all you youngsters asking basic question's about Sikhism! :TH:
Congratualtion Dr Mann!
This is great news, if your description of the site is accurate (I have not had a chance to have a good read yet lol). For too long we have allowed these neo-Sikh scholars to propogate their falshood, without preparing adequate and intellectual academic responses. It's no use just moaning and complaining about their work, adequate criticisms need to be made, especailly considering the fact that certain groups of "sikhs" have too jumped on their bandwagon, and use such authors for propogating their own ideologies; totally ignoring the fact that such authors show incredible disrespect to our Gurus.
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and you.
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Happy Birthday
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Very powerful.
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Wonderful shabad, thanks for posting
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Amazing!! Just shows what benefits these small sacrafices can have. This is one that really helps us to get our priorities in order.
Thanks for sharing.
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But this is a unique piece in my opinion, and one that warrants discussion whether people will approve of it or not. It does get a bit repetitive to see the same old posts again and again, but this is a rather interesting, although offensive, article.
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Amazing pictures everyone, please keep posting
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:WW: :WW: :WW: :WW: :WW: :WW: :WW:
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wjkk wjkf...
In Darbar Sahib people take bath in Sarowar, especially at Dukh Bhanjani Beri. They think that the Beri (tree) would wash away their sins and they will go to heaven. Hindus take bath in Ganges (Ganga) thinking that this is the only way to achieve salvation. But they should look at the water of Ganges in Delhi. People wash their clothes and its all dirty there. In Sikhism the easiest way to achieve salvation is to do Naam Simran and to do Seva (community service) so that one learn humility. Taking bath in Sarowar thinking that this way you will go to heaven is completely ignorance. A GurSikh is to go beyond heaven and hell which is SachKhand. A tree cannot wash away your sins. Sikhs have nothing to do with that tree. Your mind won't be clean. This is Bipran Ki Reet because Hindus worship trees especially Tulsi thinking that it will get them to heaven. Hindus consider Tulsi to be holiest tree and thinking that Dukh Bhanjani Beri will get you to heaven and will take your sins is wrong. It will do nothing. Guru Ji rejected the idea of taking bath in rivers and Teerath Ishnaan. Guru Ji gave Sikhs the new way of doing Naam Simran and doing Seva. Water only washes your body not your mind and if mind is not clean you are not clean. Your mind has to be clean to become one with God and Naam Simran is the way to clean your mind. Dukh Bhanjani Beri will not do anything. It's idol worship and worshiping trees is against the principles of Sikhism. Reciting JapJi Sahib 84 times on the steps of Goindwal Sahib will not get anyone to heaven or salvation because then people might think that they can do anything they want because they have achieved salvation and they don't need to take Amrit. It is a Bipran Ki Reet.
i thort sikhs are allowed 2 have ishnaan in sarovars...and isnt ther that story of the leaper being cured there?
wjkk wjkf
It would depend upon the frame of mind of the Sikh while bathing at the Sarovar I suppose. One cannot expect any benefits, if such an action is taken without any love for God or devotion. I guess it boils down to a matter of faith.
In one manner, you can see how this act of bathing at Sarovars etc can be seen as an act of submission to God, and of belief, while in another manner, as the above suggests, such action should not be seen as a total solution.
The below shabad is the obvious one that comes to mind when discussing this issue. If we explore some of the later, lesser known lines, it is suggested that the opportunity to bathe at the described Sarovar is a "gift" from the Guru. The raeson why it is a gift is, in my opinion, revealed in the following line: "In the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, filth is washed off. "
Perhaps in this sense it could be argued what makes these places so special is partly down to the fact that you will find Satsangat at them, and it is Satsangat and not the 'water' as described in the article that cleanses the mind.
<> siqgur pRswid ]
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
< siqgur pRswid ]
ik-oNkaar satgur parsaad.
rwmdws srovir nwqy ]
Bathing in the nectar tank of Ram Das,
rwmdws srovir nwqy ]
raamdaas sarovar naatay.
siB auqry pwp kmwqy ]
all sins are erased.
siB aqry pwp kmwqy ]
sabh utray paap kamaatay.
inrml hoey kir iesnwnw ]
One becomes immaculately pure, taking this cleansing bath.
inmél hoE kir esnwnw ]
nirmal ho-ay kar isnaanaa.
guir pUrY kIny dwnw ]1]
The Perfect Guru has bestowed this gift. ||1||
guir pUrY kIny dwnw ]1]
gur poorai keenay daanaa. ||1||
siB kusl Kym pRiB Dwry ]
God has blessed all with peace and pleasure.
siB kusl Kym pRiB Dwry ]
sabh kusal khaym parabh Dhaaray.
shI slwmiq siB Qok aubwry gur kw sbdu vIcwry ] rhwau ]
Everything is safe and sound, as we contemplate the Word of the Guru`s Shabad. ||Pause||
shI slwmiq siB Qok abwry gur kw sbdu vIcwry ] rhwa ]
sahee salaamat sabh thok ubaaray gur kaa sabad veechaaray. rahaa-o.
swDsMig mlu lwQI ]
In the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, filth is washed off.
swDsNig mlu lwQI ]
saaDhsang mal laathee.
pwrbRhmu BieE swQI ]
The Supreme Lord God has become our friend and helper.
pwrbRHäu BeAo swQI ]
paarbarahm bha-i-o saathee.
nwnk nwmu iDAwieAw ]
Nanak meditates on the Naam, the Name of the Lord.
nwnk nwmu iDAweAw ]
naanak naam Dhi-aa-i-aa.
Awid purK pRBu pwieAw ]2]1]65]
He has found God, the Primal Being. ||2||1||65||
Awid purK pRBu pweAw ]2]1]65]
aad purakh parabh paa-i-aa. ||2||1||65||
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oh tha's it.. SUMBODY gonna get a hurt REAL bad....
:doh: Hurt playing poker or kissing??? (i'm trying to stick to the topic here)
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Damn, the khalsa fauj is meant to be tyaar-bar-tyaar, where is he????????
DASAM GRANTH DASAM GRANTH DASAM GRANTH.
TREH CHARRITAR???????
Is it working??
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HMMM......lots of quotes on here from that article, might as well add one myself that I found most interesting.
#
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Question: Can you tell me about your early life and how you came to the spiritual
knowledge that you now share?
Thakar Singh: The desire to find God was in me from previous lives, and I began
religious training when I was young. I was brought up in the Sikh religion and was
faithful and sincere in all disciplines. I applied each and every teaching available, but could not find success in any of them, and was disappointed.
At this point there was unexpected help from God. I had never dreamed of finding
a living Master. In western countries the Christian people believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God and that no one has come since Him. Similarly, the Sikh people have the conviction that Guru Nanak is the only begotten Son of God and we can still find everything from Him; there is no need of a physical Master. To have a physical Master is considered heresy.
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Yep, a knowledgeable guy is our good old sant.
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Kes Keski
in GURBANI | SAKHIAN | HISTORY
Posted
YOU COPIER!!! THATS WHAT I JUST SAID!! lol