whyhellothere

I dunno about that^, I mean yes the artwork would be spectacular but I find many renaissance paintings to have very dark undertones, I find many famous paintings from that era very unsettling! That would be great in portraying kaljug but the gurus were filled with gods pure light.

From the writings of Guru Gobind Singh Ji in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji.

Why should we believe in anyone else when guru sahib's writing is there.Other sources are secondary. The emphasis of my posts was on year of writing

of Bhai Chaupa singh's rehtanama being 1700 AD based on internal evidence. That was the thrust of my arguement and not authenticity of its contents except that

i commented on term Brahmin.

Any way now you have mentioned Chaupa singh's rehatnama about Guru sahib invoking kali. Can you point out where did he write this?

By the way given below is your post which asked about Guru sahib invoking kali.It does not mention anything about Chaupa singh's rehatnama. It is a general question in the end.

Quote

Are you telling that we have different versions of tankahnama?There is a very big difference between what you are writing here and what is contained in Padam's book. It is not a minor difference.

So how many different tankahnamas we have now. I thought there was only one.

Kali is a totally seperate entity to Matha Durga, she was bron out of Durgas third eye, drank blood and was generally dark/kaljug, whereas Durga was good.

@ dalsingh - That makes sense! :D

It makes you think how much responsibility (power?) those who sit at The Akal Takhat have to bear, whereby they can issue edicts to the followers of Sikhism according to their interpretations of certain rehats. It is a huge responsibility as they shape how Sikhism evolves during the passage of history. One would hope their interpretations are what Guru Ji intended.

Yep I agree, but given the misdeeds that are occuring so high up in the Akal Takht and the freemasonic links the Gurdwarras have it is difficult to trust these days. I'd say that people need to question instructions not portrayed directly by the gurus, trusted members of their courts or true sants and whether they are in line with Truth. If they are not, the instructions are most likely wrong.

^^If I were to ask myself what happiness is to me 3 yrs ago I would have said sitting in bed sipping a hot choclate and eating a choclate cake. Now I'd say God.

Okay so since in SIkhi, you have to get rid of Kaam and Krodh.

Since you give up so much stuff. how do you stay happy?

My parents have taken amrit Rehat and they are a bad example to me.

There always cocky, most of the time mad at me. Always have headaches.

There both 40.

They do paath and for the time they do paath they are the least annoying at that time.

All they do is go to work come home and sleep and repeat. They have no friends

They dont go to any parties or anything fun. the only place they go is Gurdwara,

This is really effecting me badly like making me feel socially awkward and makes me feel like you give up too much in sikhi.

So i was wandering all of you guys who are very religous and have taken amrit.

Are you guys happy with your life?

Because you have to give up all of the pleasurable things in your life, Then how do you still live happily?

You have to think of worldy pleasures like a test. On the one hand you have candy, wealth, health, youth and beauty and many pleasures, on the other hand you have a ragged piece of cloth.

The cloth may look ragged but the lord is testing you.

Once you choose the ragged cloth it is instantly transformed into a next to priceless emerald

The more wholeheartedly you choose/ embrace the cloth/ emerald the more priceless it becomes and the happier it makes you (beyond any happiness the world can give) until one day it becomes a priceless magical diamond with all knowledge of the world and the power to give you anything you want and more, the pleasures it is able to give are infinate and unmatched in all of creation.

The thing is that you have to take a step away from the world (as hard as is may be) to see what you are truly missing out on. One way to do this is to take a good look at the world, the instability and the duality in it. The world is imperfect, flawed. There is good and evil, pleasure and pain, you may be happy at one point and suicidal the next. You may be walking one minute and sprawled on the sidewalk with your throat slit the next. You may be a beautiful and chaste with everything to live for one moment and raped and ruined the next, you may have a wife and children, a mansion, personal jet and celebrity friends one moment and divorced and bankrupt with no friends the next.

For every single little bit of worldy happiness you gain, u get the same amount or more pain. This is a fact. Look around you, nobody is truly happy. Budda said the world is ALL suffering. Even when one seems totally happy, every one will always harbour desires (want something they don't have.)

Every desire is pain because it is something you do not possess. Once you possess it you immediately want something else. This is a fact. 'On to the next one'.

One may say well riches can't make me happy but love can. Love on earth is conditional unless you are a saint and have turned away from the world and grabbed the piece of cloth and held on to it wholeheartedly. Your mother may love you but if u kill her husband who she adores, she won't. Your girlfriend/ wife may love you but if you cheat on her repeatedly or hurt her badly enough she won't.

We all look for unconditional love on earth and die without having found it. Only god and his saints (who are not different from the lord) are capable of love that is unconditional. We constantly test each other to see if we have unconditional love for each other and are constantly dissapointed, even if one does not do evil deeds towards another, the mind will always think bad thoughts as long as it is controlled by maya, we cannot control our minds without the lord and so we are harmed by the negative thoughts of others. This is not unconditional love. If we loved each other unconditionally we would strive to quiet our minds/ give them up to god so as to never cause another harm.

So if worldy posessions and worldly love will not bring us true happiness what have we got to hold on to? We have to surrender ourselves totally and realise that the One thing that will make us happy beynd all comprehension, more than all these base desires, yes and a million zillion times more than sex and any drug you could ever take (I'm speaking the truth), was with us, within us all along.

With love, good deeds and the True naam, gods true name which is truth, one can experience this.

Okay so since in SIkhi, you have to get rid of Kaam and Krodh.

Since you give up so much stuff. how do you stay happy?

My parents have taken amrit Rehat and they are a bad example to me.

There always cocky, most of the time mad at me. Always have headaches.

There both 40.

They do paath and for the time they do paath they are the least annoying at that time.

All they do is go to work come home and sleep and repeat. They have no friends

They dont go to any parties or anything fun. the only place they go is Gurdwara,

This is really effecting me badly like making me feel socially awkward and makes me feel like you give up too much in sikhi.

So i was wandering all of you guys who are very religous and have taken amrit.

Are you guys happy with your life?

Because you have to give up all of the pleasurable things in your life, Then how do you still live happily?

I used to get upset when Guru Nanak Dev Ji's Picture looked different to the one picture I thought he actually looked like in my house. When I progressed in my Sikhi (a path to god) they all began to look like the Guru Ji I know and even smiled at me, they still do to this day, the photos change to show truth.

Remember this is maya, everything is an illusion except the truth which will show itself to one with faith and love. You can draw a stick figure of Guru Ji and still him in a true light.

Yeh I guess we can't really get it shut down and have to learn to have patience with people like this. I just don't get how someone could be so deluded as to attack teachings that do not have a single fault!

This website

http://www.islam-sikhism.info/

has the title "Say: 'Truth has come and falsehood is vanquished' (Quaran)" At the top on its homepage and has a pic of a quaran inside a tidal wave(Islam) hitting into Harimandir Sahib( Sikhism). What the beep!!!!

The tidal wave should be hitting a mosque where the angels words are twisted to suit the majority of muslim men who want to batter their wives, rape women and kill anyone who isn't muslim.

Lol those sheltered ignorant people got told with the last few posts, they must feel really stupid now.

does anyone know what these markings look like?

Satnam Ji!

He never called Dassan Das a guru:

 He called himself the true and last guru; - he never called himself a Guru (his followers have given him this title which simply translates as 'teacher'. also he NEVER claimed to be the last guru....this is utter rubbish. he made mockery of the Sikh Gurus and the great Shaheeds of the Khalsa Panth. - also untrue. Darshan Das Ji only ever spoke highly of the SGGSJ and other SIkh Guru's. He wasn't pro Khalistan however. He referred to himself has Guru Nanak Dev Ji. - also untrue. Darshan Das Ji claimed that Nanak is the true Guru and held a very very high respect for Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

 He sat higher than Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaaj, - NOT true no satkhar (respect) was given to Guru Maharaj, - also NOT true and he distorted Gurbani and made people believe that he was the true savior. - we believe that he was a messenger from God...he never claimed to be 'the true saviour' - seriously where do you get these stories from?

Now I've already said what I had to say if you can't back the claims you've made ie, tell the sangat where you got the proof that Darshan Das did these things other than from a game of chinese whispers then how can I listen to your claims? I have not followed Darshan Das but personal claims like these must be backed up, period otherwise they cannot be taken seriously. I'm not taking sides, I just don't listen to accusations which are not backed up.

In regards to religions, like ive already said, an enlightened being holds the knowledge of how to acheieve the same state they are in (As does one bestowed with divine knowledge of how to acheive enlightenment/ of god) . Why would he/she deny his followers that same knowledge or message portrayed by god in the religion they have made? That would not make sense.

An enlightened soul is an example to humanity and their teachings hold the key to enlightenment. Read up on hinduism, christianity and Islam and Buddhism abit more. Understand what enlightenment is and the religions descriptions of the lord and you'll understand. Now thats something you WILL find on the internet! (p.s I have already said most religions have been very corrupted over time, but I'm talking about the main aim, you'll get the gist of it and see the similarities)

p.s thank for washing away my sins with the slander, you sank pretty low in your last post about Japji Sahib Ji and trying to put me in the same category as Indira (woman who murdered my family members) and moghuls (who killed my beloved Gurus without whom I would not be able to breathe.) I've got love for you, god bless you.

Your almighty Darshan Das has been judged himself and is receiving his punishment, so how can he be the judge of humanity? Enjoy the rest of your day

You obv cannot read posts properly, he said only GOD can judge him. Alot of people have been wrongfully judged, our Gurus were judged by moghuls and killed, our sikhs were judged by Indira Gandhi and killed, sikhs judged guru Gobind Singh Ji and turned their backs on him. Witch hunts have existed since the dawn of humans and within the sikh community, sikhs have gone so far as to betray gods most holy creation, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji so do not try and back your argument with an example like this.

Do a search on it. This was happening in the end of 1970s to 80s, so its hard to get a video of it and verbal statements were enough back then.

I have done a search of it and have not found a single shred of evidence. Evidence is never hard to dig up, witnesses should still be available now, police or court statements, newspaper clippings, and I have not found a single copy on the net when there are clippings from the 30's still put online.

Now you are the one making slandering comments so make an effort to back up your points before making an accusation, if you can't do that then be quiet.

And no I'm laughing at you because a religion that actually believes in the one true god will understand that the aim is union ie. enlightenment. Belief in god is knowing his qualities and the only way to know this is through enlightenment. If a religion thinks gods just some guy chilling up in some upper realm and that the main purpose is to get to heaven they don't actually believe in god because thats not who he is. Enlightenment leads to true belief in god because only when we are enlightened only then do we truly know who god is. Therefore true belief can only come through enlightenment and the enlightened beings who have formed these truthful religions (many of which have been corrupted over time although the core remains the same, although a person who loves god will intuitively understand the true parts of these religions).

Thats why its so important to have an enlightened being, a guru or saint to teach as a person cannot believe of their own accord (unless they recieve guidance divinely.)

That's amazing, thanks!

<br>I am not defending them SO strongly. Beleive what you want i am preety sure they do check the credentials of guests. It's a phone in show like on anyother radio station, the public phone in with their views - if someone lies when how is it possible to stop? Guest and caller are different- one is invited the other just picks up the phone and rings in.<br><br>Please don't just focus on bits of my post, I stated in my posts - that firstly i didn't listen to the show BUT <b>USUALLY he tries to be impartial </b>(thats when i have listened to it). I never once defended the show in question. All i said was if you listened to the show live. Pick up the phone and re-address the balance. Instead of moaning after make the difference. I mean talking isn't hard. It's harder typing<br><br>Like I also  stated the BBC is publicly funded through licence fee so if you feel the presenters are over whelmingly biased and anti SIKH, make a compliant. Google it and you will know the compliants procedure, you are supposed to get a response. <br><br>Only five pot , kettle and black.<br>

No usually he pretends to be impartial, a true sikh would if not intuitively, generally gather this from his language and voice. However this time he sounded like an idio-tic five year old- 'how would parents feel about their children being in the same class as a peaceful sikh child who would never use his blunt kirpan. Most children are not allowed to use knives so they would think it's unfair a sikh child is allowed to carry 'what is essentially a knife'.

Oh yes, the issue is that the kirpan should be banned because kids might get jealous that other children are allowed to carry a 'weapon' when they are not allowed to themselves. What a retard and what a weak, pathetic, ill thought out argument, your average kid does not want to carry weapons and won't get jealous of a religious item. Kids are not going to pull out their kirpan and 'say this is a knife' and if their kirpan is seen under their clothes they are immediately going to explain that it is religious, that's just a given. If my school policy is no jewellry or hats or hoods and a guy walks in with a cross on a chain, a girl walks in with a hijab and a jewish guy walks in wearing his cap I'm not going to be jealous I'm going to be understanding, being jealous of a religious item is ridiculous. Religion was in place thousands of years before schools and was the core of society, we have been taught even in school to be understanding of peoples religious beliefs.

If my school policy was for me to eat meat or drink sharab I would walk out and not think twice about it, banning a kirpan for an amritdhari is the same thing. Nihal put forward this ridiculously weak argument (I burst out laughing when I heard it thinking this guy is really desperate to put forward such a blatantly invalid and funny argument) in the absence of anything else to say. He couldn't say what we all know he was desperate to say for fear of losing his sikh listeners and causing a total outrage by sounding biased and evil, so he let his manmukh listeners say it for him (which he knew they would, hes a mor-on but not totally naieve). Slimy little Nihal pretending to play the good guy when hes the real villain.

He knew people would call in and say the kirpan is dangerous, he planted that seed by calling it 'essentially a knife' and saying a few other things. What a total knobhead for disrespecting the kirpan like that and the blessed children who bear them. That's what you get with a man with no intuition or love for god, a total manmukh

Someone who loves god would be able to distinguish good from bad so I pity Nihal and hope he finds truth one day instead of picking on little kids and selling his soul for wealth and to please the darker side of society.

Darshan Das was not a Guru. Though he claimed to be one You cannot compare him to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. He was a fake and he disrespected the Sikh Panth. Dhan Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj openly told the Muslims, jains, Hindus, etc they were practicing pointless rituals. Darshan Das should have done the same instead of hiding in his huts, preaching against Sikhi. Either way Sikhs found out about his slander and took care of him. Sikhs are not one to oppress anyone for their beliefs. If the persons beliefs slander or oppress another religion, including our own, then expect to be answered with strong written actions first and if they don't listen, then expect the sword. I have no problem showing the true color of Darshan Das. If your offended by it, then instead of lying on this site. Be truthful and why should i believe anything you write? Like you said don't believe everything you read.

I would also like to see evidence that he classed himself an equal to Guru Nanak Dev Ji or Guru Granth Sahib Ji and evidence of the other things he was accused of. I have seen too many witch hunts in my time and have been hurt to see inncoent people slandered so I want to see evidence before I make a decision.

I'm sick of chinese whispers, where are the court cases, and the videos and actual witnesses?

Who told you that all religions have the same aim?

Lol the aim of all religions that believe in the true one god is to achieve union with him.

Nihal should ask people if they are comfortable with child sacrifices in the name of kali, people eating cow crap and drinking cow urine, self mutilation and women jumping in fires to be with their dead husbands, general human sacrifices performed to appease gods and goddesses, prostitution in temples and much more.

Fateh all,

It's good that people taking interest in Beadbi issues, especially party halls. However, parties have been happening at Ramgarhia Gurdwara, Graham Street, Birmingham for at least 10 years - way before Edinburgh and Grays. Committee promotes them. All Committee cares about is money - they charge £700 a party, money goes to Gurdwara and you get drunks going through the Gurdwara car park. They even held a Sikh Channel "National Panth Time" there with all the so-called big-time Sikh leaders, and no-one raised a voice of objection.

Most of local Sangat is apathetic nowadays. Some Singhs tried to stop it a few years ago, but they weren't enough in number and they backed off after the Committee accused them having issues against the Ramgarhia caste. I'm Ramgarhia myself, but the rest of Sangat who I speak with are not willing to act. It's time national Sangat dealt with this issue.

Regarding the Sikh Channel, well thats really no suprise- If they know what goes down there and film there then there really are no words.

What happened to at least boycotting if exposing this is too much? The Sikh Channel has so much power to do good. Spreading gurbani has already been done, its great seva and all but so much more can be achieved with it's power.

Sikh Channel kissing the asses of so called sikh politicians will only get you so far. Please challenge and fight for truth and justice in the name of god or change your name to "The Manmukh Lovers Channel."

Fateh all,

It's good that people taking interest in Beadbi issues, especially party halls. However, parties have been happening at Ramgarhia Gurdwara, Graham Street, Birmingham for at least 10 years - way before Edinburgh and Grays. Committee promotes them. All Committee cares about is money - they charge £700 a party, money goes to Gurdwara and you get drunks going through the Gurdwara car park. They even held a Sikh Channel "National Panth Time" there with all the so-called big-time Sikh leaders, and no-one raised a voice of objection.

Most of local Sangat is apathetic nowadays. Some Singhs tried to stop it a few years ago, but they weren't enough in number and they backed off after the Committee accused them having issues against the Ramgarhia caste. I'm Ramgarhia myself, but the rest of Sangat who I speak with are not willing to act. It's time national Sangat dealt with this issue.

I don't understand how a sikh could partake in this beadbi. The gianis who readily allow this are prostituting themselves for money and nothing less.

Thank you all for ur reassurance, I just didn't want it to come across to other sangat that were better then anyone by choosing to follow hukam of sitting on floor because I know someone people do look but never approach us. Nor did I just want to follow others and sit at the table and chairs. Even when I am not with my children they choose to go and sit on the floor, and sometimes other children have followed them, never the parents though.

Don't ever care what anyone thinks of you, if your heart tells you to sit on the floor then do it, do what you truly believe the guru would want you to do becauase thats whats right- not what any other person thinks whether they claim to be right or not.

Admin where have my posts gone? This clamp down on free speech is getting very tedious.

Isn't it a bit ironic that you are criticising social networking through leaving comments on an online forum??

Blaming those online services, is like blaming deep fat fryers for the obesity epidemic.

LOL! Very well put!!

The first line renders this whole topic invalid.

Like I said before admin deleted my posts, why not outlaw computers, mobile phones morse code, flares, letters, chalk, foghorns, lighthouses, whistles, lemons (to make magic ink), sign language (and any other type of speech for that matter), telepathy, UFO''s, tagged messenger pigeons and music aswell, all possible forms of communication which could have similar adverse effects on sikhs as msn did on these amritdharis.

Some people use msn for better things than being innapropriate, and some people see facebook and social networking sites as yet another connection to Sikhi and their fellow sangat.

To remember god at the last moment of your life would involve freeing oneself from attachment. A normal dying person would think of the world they're leaving behind, relatives, friends or possessions, they'd try desperately to hold on to the world instead of having faith in gods protection. The fear of death should not be underestimated and for the fear to subside, one must have full faith in gods protection hereafter.

Remembering and having faith in god throughout your life would make one much more likely to think about god at the time of their death.

I say go to Subway and copy their ideas