SantLUCIFER

I was your usual silly person. Parents and family didn't observe any Sikh ways other than attend Gurdwara here and there. I was never taught anything to do with Sikhi so one day as I was going through some music on my computer I found a Shabad 'Bohut Janam Bichhre The Madho' by Dhan Bhagat Ravidass Ji. The words just began making sense to me and tears began falling from my eyes just hearing how Mahraaj was pleading with God that he had forsaken him in his past births but this one he would dedicate to him. Anyway...i began doing Path and Ishnaan in the mornings i didn't need any alarm clock as if by the will of God I would get up at 4am naturally. My family were shocked and wondered why I had turned to Religion. I began talking about Gurbani and they were surprised by how my Panajabi and sumaj [understanding was improved]

They'd ask me things and they'd call me Sant/Giani and the words of Gurbani and discourses would flow from my mouth this in turn encouraged my mother to take Amrit. Although my dad would say 'Why are you listenng to a Chamar' I'd roll my eyes and look angrily and say have you not learned anything? there is no caste be it the Bani of the Gurus or Bhagats, when they were added to the SHri Guru Granth Sahib all jaat [castes] vanished. When we bow to the Bani, the Bhagats become the Gurus and vice verse meaning they are the one and same.

Anyway when I'm down and I think about one line 'Jis Nu Toon Janiye Soi Jan Jane' TO WHOM YOU GIVE YOUR KNOWLEDGE SHALL ALONE KNOWLEDGE YOU. This isn't egotistcal but reminding me that when the Lord showers them with that same Gian they'll understand how sweet is the Lord' :D

Guru Fateh

It promotes Darbar Sahib free. Will get people coming towards Sikhi.

Don't believe what Naik says even the Muslims say he's potty and talks rubbish.

If you bow to yourself that's self worship? you can become hakaria [pride] - I bow to the pictures of Dhan Gurdwaras I have or i bow in any direction because the Master is present everywhere at all times.

No body is feeding SGGS ji. Did you see this happening or it is a product

of your mind only. If you did see tell us where? Guru Arjan dev ji did put cloths

( They are called rumalas) on pothi sahib when he did first parkash.Are you becoming

wiser than Guru sahibans.

And whom did you see worshipping SGGS as idol? No one does that. You need to understand

the meaning of idol before you indulge in this exercise. An idol is an image of a deity.

Sikhs have not made image of sGGS ji.

Reply to our points and do not try to find escape routes.

T

Your English leaves a lot to be desired....

Read my above posts, I've made it clear, I'm not going to repeat it again.

Some take it too far when they address Shri Guru Granth Sahib.

I LOVE Kathas, but I am astute enough to not follow the Kirtani.

Respect is not idol worship. A sikh who reads SGGS ji

know very well what is idol worship. Only an ignorant person

will equate respect to idol worship.

Kala afghana writings say that sikhs respect towards SGGS

ji is same as idol worship.

Kala Aghana I don't care about. {if you think abybody who says not to Idol worship SGGS is a Kala Afghana supporter, then that would make Shahi Guru Gobind SIngh Ji a support too}

As mentioned above, if we Sikhs treat SGGS as an idol, feed, cloth, etc etc then that amounts to treating it like an idol. There are different ways to show respect. The same ways Dhan Guru Nanak Ji and the other Gurus did. If you don't know the basics of Sikhi don't address my posts.

Fateh

Shabad was ever present in cosmos, is present and will be present.

Gurbani is expressed form of shabad through Guru sahibans.

When Guru arjan Dev ji did parkash of aad Granth sahib , he sat

on the gorund at a lower pedestal. So Guru Granth sahib is sacred

for sikhs and we should not say only akhars are holy.

That's a different kind of respect. He didn't turn it into an idolistic worshipping ritual. The Shabad Guru is contained within the Shri Guru Granth Sahib, it holds the word, it is a vessel to carry the Naam.

There's a lot of naastic questions arising in this thread.. Anyone with love and shardha for Guru Sahib would not pose such naastic questions.

Dhan Sri Guru Granth sahib ji is not a holy book, ink, or even confined to holy shabad as most people like to preach. Maharaaj in their entirety are the Guru, Dassa'n Guru ki Deh.. the embodiment of the 10 Guru's.

Guru Sahib were Akaal purkh themselves, they knew in their 10'th form they would hand over gurugaddi to Guru Granth sahib ji, and to show how Sewa of Guru Granth should be done they did it themselves.

Guru Sahibs slept lower than Guru Granth Sahib ji, did parkash, sukhasan. This is well before Guru Granth sahib ji even given Gurugaddi.

Those who are in love with Maharaaj treat Maharaaj as a living body, they offer before eating, on cold days offer blankets, and new ramaaleh... the same devotion they would show Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaaj, because there is no difference.

Kabbah or no kabbah.. who cares... maharaaj did what they did in mecca, they also stopped huge rocks with their hand. Going Harmandir Sahib and pointing your feet directly at Maharaaj, your asking to get your knee caps done

<edited>

The more you insult the Religion of others shows you're not a Sikh of the Gurus at all.

The basics of Sikhi is that it does not involve idolatry, what you've said and those that do, are committing a sin. You've turned it into an Idol no better than Hindus.

Jis pāhan ka▫o pāṯī ṯorai so pāhan nirjī▫o. ||1||

That stone idol, for which you tear off those leaves - that stone idol is lifeless

Sri Vaheguru ji Maharaj has taken up the Sirgun Saroop of Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj so you can't say Maharaj is different than Satguru.

:biggrin2:

Erm you're obviously oblivious to what the Dhan Gurus have said. GURBANI alone is the form [roop] of Guru! [shabad Guru]

Gods everywhere, but His power

Is concentrated in Guru Ji. You use Mecca to

Support your claim? Are you kidding me, bro? You think Mecca is the same as Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj? Guru Ji>Mecca

What is wrong with Makkah? if Dhan Guru Nanak respects it in his Bani who are you to insult it you murakh! [fool]

This Shabad is by Bhagat Sheikh Fareed Ji in Salok Fareed Jee on Pannaa 1379

fareedhaa rottee maeree kaat(h) kee laavan maeree bhukh ||

Fareed, my bread is made of wood, and hunger is my appetizer.

jinaa khaadhhee choparree ghanae sehanigae dhukh ||28||

Those who eat buttered bread, will suffer in terrible pain. ||28||

i don't understand the metaphor or the message behind it?

What it means is, there are some people who eat the best dishes [foods] available, whilst others go hungry. They eat with joy and pride, and think they are important, they take such relish in it. Sheikh Farid Ji says he eats just the basic of foods, because to him it's not a big issue he is just grateful to get that.

if you have love for the members of your family, and your seeing your family fall apart you will do as much as you can in your power to make things right. Beyond that it's out of your control and at all times you remain Chardikala.

A Panthic Sewadar should be the same. He should be koumi Dhardi, he should feel the pain of our people. The pain of poverty ridden shaheed families, our brothers on drugs, our sisters selling themselves short.homeland occupied by butchers. the pain must remain there, the spark must be present at the same time remain chardikala. think concisely, make short/med/long term plans.. help Sikh schools for the future.. educate the families now.. send money to Shaheed pariwaars.

often people come out with elaborate theories, super saakhis and random quotes, try to explain theories such as karam, hukam.. blah blah.. just to make them selves feel ok about doing NOTHING.. that's all i see.

When it comes to their own families.. then nothing is left to hukkam or karam. relentlessly seek best schools, homes, cars education.. leaving nothing to chance...

My post had nothing to do with what you've said. The reason I made it was so many Sikhs feel disheartened and may feel they too need not continue due to the negatives they see around them. So if it assists them to remain Chardikala, then that's not negative. Do as much as one can for the Panth but if does not bring to fruition to what you've expected be not worried.

Fateh.

read the comments left by hindus on the comments page....absolute hatred for sikhs...they are insulting ranjit singh for wearing a dastaar in france...like sant ji said...they hate the very appearance of sikhs which is why they want to destroy us...

Those wretched dogs can never destroy us. Muslims Mughals gave it their best shot and they failed, what can these cow worshipping monkeys do to the Sikhs of the LORD!!

No never. I avoid such people.

The purification of Sikhi may require the impure ones to stray from the path.

If it's within his Hukam they too shall be purified once again.

Guru Pyari Sadh Sangat Ji...

Alot of people are worried about the decline in Sikhi. Some fear not many are following the Sikh path according to the Religion, some fear those that wear the Gursikh Bana are not actually practising Sikhi, but commit sins etc etc. All of that is true. But if you look around the other main religions are going through the same issues. Christianity decline, Islam decline, the terrorists who use Islam for the wrong reasons and so on.

But what gets me through the day is this tiny element of what Shahi- Shenshah Dasam Guru Nanak Dev Ji Mahraaj says....

Khoaar ho-ae sabh milaingae bachay sharan jo ho-ae

Those that are lost, all of them shall unite. This is the message of Akal Purakh so be not disheartened Pure Ones.

Fateh Ji.

Man Kyon Bairaag Karega Satgur Mera Poora

- Oh Mind Why Are You Sad? My Guru Is Perfect.

so this means any disrespect done to guru granth sahib and dasam granth sahib should be tolerated?

Dnt be a missionary by calling the respect we show toward Guru Granth Sahib as idol worship. You cannot compare stones and statues with Guru Granth sahib ji and sasam granth ji.

would you call guru arjun dev ji the same since he sat lower to guru granth sahib?

you logic indicates that bowing to Guru granth Sahib ji is also idol worship.

No my logic means what some people perceive Mahraaj Ji to be an idol to dress, feed, and treat it like an idol. These are the basics of Sikhism and are prohibited. Scriptures should be respected but not mistaken to be the actual Guru. It's a vessel to carry the Naam. There is a difference, but only a few see it.

Singho, bani is Guru and Guru is bani. We must respect whatever parchment Bani is written onto.

The WORD [bani] it self is the Guru, not the actual Book[pages] This becomes an idolesque worship of it and treatment. Read the Bani of The Tenth Guru Nanak about fools who worship such things.

Fateh.

There probably are, but are not allowed to convert to other Religions so would not be making a song and dance about it if they had.

Some people do need to stop being idolatrous! This is not our 'father'! Worse than Hindus some of you. It should be respected but you're leading away from the Sikhi of Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji Nirankaar, and ending up worse than heathens!

Sadly I don't see any change from Monkey Badal for Panjab, they'll bribe, and fix the results, unless Sikhs protest in their millions as Muslims are doing in the Middle East! Then only will Khalistan be real!

Fateh.

I don't see any issues to be honest. I don't see any alteration of Gurbani? Some people sway to and fro doing Path, some sit without moving, some may walk about whilst doing Path. It's not a big deal. Anyway is't better to see this than Sikhs watching Pandits, or that Brahman who does Yoga and lures fools into Hinduism.

Yes Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is our only Guru. But we have other Sikh canonical scriptures as well such as the writings of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee, Bhai Gurdas Jee, Bhai Nand Lal Jee. No one can take that away from us and neither are we going to leave them alone.

Yes but some Sikhs are not the only people who have doubts about certain elements of Scriptures. Some Muslims says the Quran Sahib has been altered, some Christians say the Bible has. The Guru Granth Sahib hasn't been, and the only Scripture to have been written by the Prophets of God.

Also the irony is, both sides are doing to to say there is no way such langauge can be attributed to Dhan Shahi-Shaneshah Guru Gobind SIngh Ji, the others say no matter what is written we won't believe it's not his writings. SO, best to leave it to each persons own conscience.

Fateh.

All that matters is that Dhan Guru Granth Sahib is the ONLY true Guru. The rest should be left alone as it causes issues/anger.