DustOfTheSaintsFeet

^^ :stupidme:

Ahh, how culture still defines us fools....

1. What will you do?

Serve the needy- the starving, the downtrodden, and the ill.

Serve truth to whoever will listen.

2. What major positive or negative changes you will plan to bring? Help the poor get into work, provide shelter for the poor, feed the hungry, help them get established- whether they are white black, chinese or red.

3. What will be your 4 major policies or your signature ideas

1. Call on the Sangat worldwide to step forward and donate to the poor and hungry.

2. Call on the sangat to step forward and help the needy to get jobs, get shelter and grow or make own food etc.

3. Disregard all rituals and teach all to purify the heart, of the importance of silencing the mind which in turn gets rid of the 5 theives and to embrace all as One as per Gurbani.

4. Provide shelter for the downtrodden in the gurdwarras, every extra room to be filled with those who have no place to stay until they are established.

4. What changes will you prefer or plan to bring in SGPC? (Some facts: There are 175 members, mostly voted by rural folks. They are official holders of annual 600 crore budget).

Outlaw corruption, bribery, theivery etc, alcohol and taking advantage of others, jadoo etc within the membership.

5. Create your own question and answer it by yourself !!

Why is there a shortage of Brahmgyanis?

Because people have no idea how much they procrastinate or are lost in trishna(ego of seva, seva for glory of self, not for god).

Am I the only one who finds it difficult to get an equal balance between ones Sikhi and other daily demands?

I'm at university, and I'm just not motivated. I just keep thinking, what's the point? I've spent 20 years in education, and will continue for another 3 years, until I manage to get some boring job. All this is for money. None of this will go with me in the end.

I keep wondering what I will have gained in my life, if I were to die tomorrow.

Nothing in my daily life gives me satisfaction. I want to spend my life doing seva, not doing essays and exams. (I know, I can fit in some seva here and there, but it's not the same when you spend every day in lectures and are made to think that education is your entire life).

I'm taking amrit soon. I just wish I could dedicate my whole life to Sikhi/ seva, rather than having to go back to a life where all I do is worry about passing exams. I can't concentrate on that shizzle because I'm always thinking about, not only Sikhi related things, but things like death.

In conclusion: the world is an illusion, and I'm entertaining it by continuing miserably in education in order to get a job. I find myself concentrating on what will go with me after death, rather than all this, which will not. But money is necessary, unfortunately. So there's really no way out.

Yes the world is an illusion, all that really actually exists is nothing- God is of no image, no colour etc,

'Na roop na rang na rekh'= Nothing

Do naam simran, attuning yourself to thsi truth, remember this gyan day and night and you are remembering Him.

I used to sit in lectures attuning myself to his name(truth/Him) and everytime I stopped, even when writing notes etc, I felt I'd fallen, Truth/God was a nasha(still is).

Now I sit at work doing it, stand doing it, walk doing it, go to sleep doing it, it's no chore, it's a privilege. If we are able to attune ourselves to Him, to the truth that is Him throughout everything and every situation and apply the gyan of gurbani to the same, remembering gurbani's truths- letting them take on the false of maya, we have passed His greatest tests- no matter what we see, hear and feel, we remember its all just him and we remain calm and in truth- how can the theives conquer us when we have this gyan?

Get past the imagery, dont be fooled by it, people may slander and spit on you while your living in truth, attuning yourself to him/his frequency but remeber, theyre just him teaching you a fault still exists so work on it-

With this gyan, you just keep going on the path, nothing can stop you, you're just flowing through his love, fearlessly accepting that it is all Him no matter how good or bad your eyes delude you into thinking it is.

This is great :happy2:

It'd be great if everyone posts a smiley face when they click so we can see how many cups are donated.

If we think of illusion as everything with an image, we come to understand that the possibilities are limitless.

Dreams are real- thoughts can be manifested from thought to physical reality- which is actually false- just like a dream.

When we understand that dreams are just as real as real life, we begin to understand samadhi, astral travel etc. The physical realm(or 3rd world) is parallel to the spiritual realm, it is the astral projection of the 2nd world that Guru Nanak Ji mentions in gurbani(he mentions the 3 worlds.)

But we are not here for all of that, we're here to discover for the 1st world, or the Nothingness which is Truth- our true nature- form, as we are formless beings.

This is the most humble energy as it is devoid of maya(illusion of image/ ego) and is is the balance. The more we accept the nothingness/truth/god as reality and God as everything, the more we detach from the illusion and see all as one, good and bad, heaven and hell, pain and pleasure, the rest really doesn't matter, everything else happens according to hukam.

Like gurbani says, nirboah and nirvair,

He is One and so are we. If we read mool mantar with an open heart, we would realise this. There is no good or bad, no true or false, just hukam, karam. Some are led to truth, some are led astray. We each partake in the game he has written for us of self discovery, all eventually discovering that we are all one and the same- we had just ignored and became attached to certain aspects of ourselves, suppressing the others(satan is god, he just supresses/ignores parts of himself(darkness/ignorance), does not embrace nirboah and nirvair- he is the whole of creation and beyond as are we and anyone else), so he fed us dukh, he hit us in the form of bad people and slanderers, only to get us back to the balance again through our bhagti, it is all fearless love(Nirboah, nirvair) on His part, he knows we may harbour ill will against him but he does it for our own benefit and ultimate joy.

When we embrace and accept the whole, the good and bad, pleasure and pain as One, as simple, fearless and pure love, that is when the One, our true natures are discovered again.

Nirboah and Nirvair, it's simple, it can't be twisted. Disregard everything I've wrote and do naam simran on these two simple words with an open heart- truly feel what they are.

How very dare you even in your wildest dreams ever think of me as someone disregarding the very first line of gurbani as simple romanticism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In the 54 years of my little life, this is THE MOST STUPID, UNINTELLIGENT, FALSE, AND RIDICULOUS ACCUSATION anyone ever made of me!

Well my friend let me quote you again "romanticist, theologically faulty, and hot potch preach on the omnipresence of God and how everything is ultimately His game when the issue at hand ". Nirboah and nirvair have everything to do with this issue, as does it have everything to do with every single moment of our lives in this khel. Living Nirboah and Nirvair or striving to live in Nirboah and nirvair are the aims of sikhi, it is the only way we are able to not think of, but to actually Feel truth in every single situation, whether it is on a forum whilst dealing with angry posters or establishing whether or not one is committing a beadbi.

If you are not living Nirboah and Nirvair in a moment, your judgement cannot be trusted for the judgement of a deluded man living the mindset of a demon(ie. no nirboah or nirvair) is not reliable and not accepted in His court.

The psychology of Kalyug as confirmed in Gurbani is demonic hence we are in the age of hell on earth. Until we physically begin to live in truth instead we cannot possibly move forward and face our karams head on with a balanced mindset as our Gurus did- instead we get angry when he feeds us dukh through others, we forget that it is Him Himsel feeding us the dukhi.

Even Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that God himself sent the Moghuls as the messengers of death in the Kalyug, they were simply karam.

We can take a stand against beadbi, I never spoke against that- however if we are to act properly and fairly it is imperative that we live in nirboah and nirvair throughout this situation, or else we are simply demons acting in delusion without recognising the truth that these people are god himself.

Sajjan thug was not murdered by Guru Ji when he made an attempt on his life, instead he was reformed. This is living Nirboah and nirvair- recognising divinity within one and speaking Sat to remind that being of their true nature. Guru Gobind Singh Ji asked his sikhs to kill their enemies quickly to avoid excessive pain- regardless of their horrific misdeeds against his sikhs and their families, i.e murder of their families, rape of their women and murder of their children. His army fed water to the image of the enemy.

This was true love, regardless of the image of the enemies in the khel and no matter how much pain god fed through the ignorant ones, he still recognised and accepted them as god. Our gurus spoke truth to the good and bad alike, they recognised that the goodness and badness is illusion, that there is no such thing as good and bad, they recognised Him everywhere in everything and saw enemies and friends as alike. This is truly beautiful, this is why the gurus were so incredibly amazing.

In sikhi we never move forward without living nirboah and nirvair, we never make Gurmat decisions without living nirboah and nirvair it is not only relavant, it is crucial to this path,it is god himself and living his virtues brings us closer to his truth.

I am no member of a sect or cult, all I spoke of was the first line of gurbani which is relevant every second to everyone every where and to every situation.

If you think it is not relevant to this situation, then so be it, but Nirvair and Nirboah is God himself, it is truth, and as Truth is omnipresent I'm not sure how it could not be relevant.

In fact, you can scrap this whole post and just read these words if you want, this is what I've been trying to say:

"Nirboah and Nirvair"

Where is YOUR humility and humbleness when you type that for all your seemingly sweet but false mystical stances? And be a man of principle! If what I say disgusts you, and you cannot be asked to read any further, then do not type anything further to me and expect me to read it either, instead of continuing to preach more of your mixed up beliefs. So you preach God is everywhere and in everything from the wise to the ignorant but when what is apparently ignorant in your view annoys you , you shun it! So much for the hypocrisy in not following the preach of your tall words! I seem to have ruffled your soft fine feathers.

I will repeat this and continue repeating this. This is a mainstream Sikh website dedicated to mainstream Sikhi and this thread is about the blatant beadbi of SGGS in the name of Sikhi by a misguided offshoot called the neeldharees. Now be a man and come clean in condemning this beadbi if you have no other secret vested interests in this thread instead of hijacking it to preach your version of Sikhism which does not conform to tat gurmat.

And I will repeat this my friend, when one disregards the very first line of gurbani as simple romanticism, I will not continue to listen to that being, to me, your first line in your last reply was beadbi.

Also I was not angry, just slightly confused as to how a student of truth is able to shun the very first line of his Gurus teachings as romanticism.

All I spoke of was Niroboah and nirvair, of the first line of gurbani, nothing more, nothing less. If you don't like to read my posts then do not read them, it is that simple, i'm not putting forward my own knowledge in any way, it's all there in gurbani..

In no way did I tell anyone to get up and clap on stages etc, however I did state that a sikh does not follow guidelines blindly, I said when respect is due it is given, I.e taking shoes off as a mark of respect etc, I wasn't aware that you would not understand my answer on this issue from the post you replied to.

As I understand you feel I went off on a tangent, let me update my last two replies, if you have a problem with it, there is really no more can say because they are not my words:

'Nirboah and Nirvair.'

The two most powerful most truthful principles in existence, that apply to all situations and people- applying it, one begins to truly understand true, fearless love, and the true nature of creation and not live in ignorance..

Nirboah and Nirvair is Sat and Sat(Truth/God) is Nirboah and Nirvair....

!!!!! I do not understand the need for this romanticist, theologically faulty, and hot potch preach on the omnipresence of God and how everything is ultimately His game when the issue at hand which this thread is about is the videos showing a whole amount of neeldharee people dancing and clapping in the presence of Shree Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj which constitues an utterly serious beadbi for which people need to be questioned, warned, disciplined, and cautioned!!!!!

As I have said before, people need to come clean whether they are a hidden neeldharees on this forum looking for ways of defending the actions of their leaders and cult. This is a mainstream Sikh youth forum! not a place for sympathisers and followers of any cults offshooting from Sikhism for whatever purposes.

The discussion on this thread should be to;

a)warn people who are interested in mainstream Sikhism to stay well clear of any involvement with such cults.

b)to discuss ways and means so there is no further repeat of such incidences.

c) to discuss ways of bringing these issue to the highest authority so such people can be reprimanded and banned from having the presence of SSGS in their meetings.

d)to help their followers who have been misled to choose between such cults and mainstream Sikhism.

e)to make the Sikh jagat aware of such cults so people can stay clear of them.

f) summon the leaders of such cults to renounce these cults, disband and enter the fold of mainstream Sikhism, or be declared as heretics and non Sikhs.

As for the issue of the omnipresence of God and how everything is God’s game, that is a discussion that is better suited in the section to do with Sikh philosophy etc not here. However, I will answer you briefly on this. You need to read or reread? the Zafarnama of Dil-e-Muhabat Shree Guru Gobind Singh apart from Gurbani to understand that as humans we do have to take responsibility for our actions, and that we cannot let the idea of God’s game as being unreal, or transient, or that God resides in all, as excuses to gloss over, trivialise, or absolve ourselves of human error, sin and karmic existence.

Creation is not a fig of anyone’s imagination! Rather creation and all in it, is God’s construct with its limited spatial and time boundary. Our actions DO carry consequences and in the words of dhan dhan, tisre patshah, Shree Guru Amardas pyare maharaj, in beautiful Sri Rag, ‘lekh chaurasee pher peia, kamnh dujeh bhae’’towards the ending of ang 31, SGGS, i.e because of another’s love, the bride goes round in the circuit of eightyfour lakhs of lives.’’ This is what has to bother and concern us in relation to our conduct as gurmukhs rather than manmukhs ! and is usually a, or, the, key instigation, in making someone decide to be a spirit born and spirit led gurmukh.

SGGS starts with Ik Oangkar, indeed, to immediately state that God is the Omnipresent Reality. However within the space of seven more words to describe God, Gurujee quickly expresses that God is attainable through Guruprasad and by the end of the first Japjee pauri, our attention is drawn to the need to live in the hukum of God, and so on. Hence you can see that there is an urgency to make a choice, and live an affirmative life of responsibility and transparency in order to live within God’s grace.None of these facts are unreal. God is infinite and we are finite but within our limited finite existence, we see, touch , feel , hear and smell in a very real way and we exist in the matrix, driven by our karma. Gurbani allows no one to excuse and perpetuate their manmukh existence by claiming their present condition is a link in a karmic chain for which God and not they, are responsible. This is Hinduistic teaching not Sikh!

Gurbani, instead, is cosmic and universal, urging anyone and everyone to surrender to Gurujee, and receive and live by Gurprasad and see this as to be living in Akal Purukh’s hukum. Gurbani issues a universal warning to each person in this world of the consequences of being a manmatia, and urges everyone to realise, that, in this one lifetime, they need to take responsibility for their actions and will not be excused if they don’t! This is Sikhi! And Sikhi teaching!

Now to your other point of pain and pleasure! The Gurvaak ‘’dukh sukh dono sam kar janeh’ of Gurbani is not implying that at some heightened mystical state these will both ‘feel’ the same! This negates tat gurmat philosophy, belittles God’s Supreme Desire for different states of feelings to exist, and for us to be able to experience the richness in variety of these states as part of our precious physical and human existence, and as part of our praise of the greatness of God. The similarity of dukh and sukh within the context of the big jigsaw puzzle of gurmat philosophy put together, is part of Gurbani’s explanation of the realm of karma within creation, whereby, a Gurmukh sees these two as the same because the both are the wheels that give motion to, and drive the chariot of karma, in the many reincarnations of a soul.

There is a lot more you have said about pain, about 24/7 slavery to God, about interpreting Gurujee’s martyrdom, about heaven and hell , about God being satan and the cross, about rituals, about Gurujee’s visit to Mecca and what should be the right gyan taken from that, and that we are all God, etc, etc etc, that needs very very serious correction because your understanding is faulty but that would take me many more hours of typing, and make this a very long post. I say this in humbleness, because my main concern is that this website exists to further mainstream Sikh teachings. However if there are many requests, I will humbly endeavour to explain at great length what all these terms mean and imply in accepted gurmat philosophy.

What helps anyone to get a good sound grasp of the many different concepts within Gurbani, and what they really mean, as well as their interrelationships is to make, as part of your daily Gurmukh lifestyle, a lifetime habit of reading a)a continous reading of SGGS and SDGGS with viakhiya labouring over every word, every sentence, doing cross comparisons, reading not just explanations but expositions, b) a lot of ardas to Gurujee to reveal to you His eternal truths that are hidden in Gurbani, sometimes not apparent on first read, and having a little library at home with Bhai Gurdas works, Bhai Nand Lals works, Bhai Sahib Bhai Vir Singh’s works, Professor Sahib Singh’s works, etc etc. Make it a hobby to pop in regularly into a shop that sells mainstream Sikh books or online places etc.So you are exposing yourselve s to various perspectives on Gurmat, Gur ithiyaas, etc. This is a rather enjoyable thing to do and in fact compulsory if you are very earnest. It sharpens you up so you can see through anyone’s words easily for the real truth they contain.

Llving by Guru’s truth is absolutely and insanely exciting, fascinating, tantalising and appetising!

I stopped reading your post after the first line because of the negativity and ignorance of the First line of Gurbani it exuded.

However if you wish to describe Nirboah and nirvair and hukam romanticist I suggest you read mool mantar again... Any sikh who doesn't read it and take it into a account cannot possibly be called a student of truth.

Everything I said is what I felt needed to be said, I cannot bite my lip when false, manmade ideologies are being put forward. The reality is Nothingness, everything Is hukam and karam.

We do not follow rules for the sake of following them, rather we understand the meaning of guidelines, and show respect when it is due whether it's taking shoes off to honour the great master or cleaning shoes outside the gurdwarra

However in His court, a striving for 24/7 service is the only True respect, this is what a True sikh strives for, whether we are in dreams or awake, you can call this goal whatever you want, however we do not become khalsa without 24/7 service ie. remebrance.

"Day and night, he worships the Living Light. He does not entertain any thought of duality. Perfect Love and perfect conviction adorn his personality. How can he follow fasting (rituals) or, even by accident, pray to an idol or a grave? His pilgrimage will be Daan (giving), mercy, self-discipline of tolerance, and self-control. He sees only the One, One God everywhere. Only when the Perfect Light fully illuminates his heart, can you call him khalsa. Otherwise, he is not Khalsa." (DG, p.712)

If you cannot accept this fact, that is fine, but I will not write something unTrue to please a single person who is comfortable living in part time service and not recognising that 24 hr service is the aim of life.

lol damn right, who and what isn't!

So I just got back from Gurdwara and I had an interesting experience I feel like I should share.

While sitting at langar, a singh came around to serve some food and seeing that I was gora and such, he promptly introduced himself, struck up a quick conversation, and shook my hand. To those of you who grew up in Gurdwara this may not seem like a big deal, but I can promise you this gesture means so much to an outsider. It honestly quit bothering me quite some time ago, but the insular nature of desis can be a bit jarring at first. I think this is even the case with other desis coming to gurdwara... people just tend to ignore them if they don't already know them.

I think this is just as valuable a form of sewa as serving langar, if not more so. So if you are serving langar and see a new face, brown or white, be a gentleman/lady and kindly introduce yourself. I promise it will make quite an impression.

*sorry mods, this should probably go in general*

It may happen with other desis but there is definitely still a hugely cultural mindset within the majority of the 'sikh' community. When we become sikh, culture should go out the window- why put your false culture(illusion) over your status as a sikh(real sikhs have no identity, they see all truth seekers as of the same- no identity).

Many sikhs are reluctant to allow their children to marry white, black or chinese sikhs, but this is the very thing Guru Nanak Dev Ji strived to abolish. Do we think our gurus would have denied one of their childrens marriage to a sikh who was born into a different culture?

The answer is no, of course not, to think that would be absurd.

But not to worry, there are sikhs out there who see all truth seekers as brothers and sisters. In fact they see the universe as a family, and speak the truth to the sinners and the saints, the good and the bad, the black mc, the chinese takeaway man and the big tough russian- they'll even speak truth to the angel, the deluded demon, the alien and the ghost, the hindu demi god, because we are all Him, we are all totally equal in His eyes, we are just playing out the karma he has written for us- all is simply karma in this khel. We can't do anything on our own, he drives us every moment- we are all One, made of the same stuff(nothing, no image), we just haven't realised it yet.

who cares about right and left, that is ritual. Every part of SGGSJ is perfect and pure and can only be beneficial to read and apply to our lives.

Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj is beyond time. He is Akal Purakh. Time is an illusion and does not exist. Free will is another illusion and there is no definition of free will that is flawless. Every human being is acting as their environment pulls or pushes them too. Everything depends on something, but only Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj is independant. For some Akal Purakh has put as the recievers and some as the givers, but he has put only some get to play the game of love with him. Edgar Cayce, has a faulty logic. If Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj doesn't know how certain things will play out then he is not in the infinite or the all knower. And free will becomes the Lord as it knows more than Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj. Also Akal Purakh being eternal, then there is no past or present or future for Akal Purakh. Again time is a construct of the creation and does not exist like the creation. Gurbani tells us that Shabad Guru, understands Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj. The human mind is not unpredictable. One human can't understand another humans mind in totality because both are limited in their understanding. What humans can or can't do is not the benchmark for what Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj is capable of. Gurmukhs don't have free will either because free will doesn't exist for no one. Gurmukhs are under the grace of Satguru and act as Satguru tells them too. Others are under the control of the 5 vices (ego, anger, lust, greed, and/or attachment). When you are under the control of the 5 vices, then you are under the control of the creation, which Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj has subjected you too and you will die as the creation will die one day. However Satguru is beyond death and birth, so whoever is given Satguru's grace becomes one with Sri Waheguru Ji Maharaj. At his command one recieves the grace of Satguru and becomes Gurmukh. His command can't be described in totality, but as Sikhs we know bits and pieces. The more devotion and love we are given by Satguru, then more we are able to understand Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj. Beg for his mercy, meditate on his name, is the instructions of Satguru.

That is beautiful, thanks.

"Everything in life is a risk"

Everything in life is hukam i.e God's will.

If you are to get married, you will, if it is written that you will be killed tomorrow, then that will happen.

Gurbani says death can come knocking at any moment so be ready for it. We all procrastinate with attachment to worldly affairs, but gurbani needs to be applied 24/7.

Gurbani is simple, God has no image, no form, he is nirboah and nirvair, he discovered truth after many ages of discovery, now he is truth 24/7.

We just need to discover what he did and merge with him, taht we are truly nothing and that all within the 6 senses are false.

I'm not arguing about shoes etc, but we'd all do well to remember that God is all pervading in Nirgun Saroop(Nothing/ No image) so to never do anything bad/ think bad thoughts(silence the mind with naam ie. attuning oneself to his frequency of Truth).

This is the true, most beautiful slavery- living free from maya and being nothing but a slave at his feet 24/7(by His Grace) regardless of the different images he takes on around us(all images being false as it is just all him in nirgun saroop).

God says his slaves are pure and remember him always- we should all make efforts to live up to this including eradication of the mind, and let the Actual Khalsa(the 100% pure ones with a silenced mind, living in truth 24/7) add a few more members to it.

Slavery to god is 24/7, not stepping in a Gurdwarra and acting one way and indulging in maya once we step outside. Yes sargun and nirgun are one and the same, however god has many faces through the khel, One who is everything, the slanderer, the saint, the gurmukh, the manmukh, the reality is that we are all just an amalgamtion of each other, pleasure and pain, light and dark, heaven and hell- we are the balance/nothing/truth/god himself. We are all god(Nothing, no image, no nothing, but the greatest nasha and treasure), we just don't acknowledge it 24/7 and we do not apply this truth to our lives.

Taking shoes off, covering the head for a gurmukh is not a ritual act, as Truth is not confined to rituals..when a gurmukh steps into the gurwarra nobody need lay down any rules saying don't wear shoes.

Everybody likes to quote the story of Satguru Nanak Ji's visit to mecca and how when his feet turned, so did the kaaba, but nobody likes to take the gyan of this story and apply it.

If a gurmukh takes shoes off as a sign of love respect, because of a feeling that god is telling them they should(all hukam) then they will do so- they will understand the meaning behind the act, remembering every moment that their beautiful lord is all pervading even in the greatest sinner, the peadophile, the rapist, the serial killer, the toilet, the temple, this is the message that Babaji in form wished to portray.

Nothing in this khel is real, that is what we're here to discover, this is the only treasure- the gurdwarra is a false place in the khel. But it's imagery is there as a place(false) for the sinners(us) to relax and apply the truth, (so it is respected) and discover that it along with everything else is nothing. Once we understand this, we begin to live in hukam 24/7- going to the gurdwarra is simply hukam, all his own will, if we encounter a sick person on the way and need to take them to a and e, its also hukam, we live in truth on the way and in the hospital, (truth never changes, our state remains balanced) and if we're killed inside, thats also hukam(we live truth then also)- it is all a learning experience and a test of fearlessness and true love and acceptance, life is one great game we have been put in to discover truth and to live it in every single scenario we're placed in(the unbreakable state of truth, the real chardi kala), to recognise every darshan we're given as him whether its an angel or a demon- that is the sole reason we are here.

Our gurus clearly stated that heaven and hell, pleasure and pain is exactly one and the same to the gurmukh- hence the state of mind of the gurus did not change in their experience of either one. Pain is seen as a great blessing to the gurmukh- All here is temporary and the greater the pain, the greater the detachment from the false. A thathi tavi was embraced by our beloved Guru ji, it was not just accepted, it was embraced. He is all pervading, he is the gurdwarra he is the thathi tavi, he is the torturer, the cross, he is Guru Nanak Dev Ji, he is satan.

When one understands this and applies this gyan to their lives and quits the attachment to the false rituals and arguments(ego/ all sense of I, mine, and self is totally false), one is able to move forward with bhagti, regardless of their surroundings, or what happens to them(all hukam/his will)- there is nothing to hold them back physically or mentally- they will see themselves in everyone and everything and realise that they actually Are the entire creation and all else, they are no different to anyone else- That their sole purpose is to live(apply) this truth themselves 24/7 and to serve it to others. This is when the khalsa will rise, when nirvair and nirboah is truly applied.

Akal Purakh in Nirgun Saroop is everywhere. Then in Sargun form he is Satguru. If you think its the same then everytime you walk around with your shoes on or at all then you disrespected Sri Waheguru Ji Maharaj. Infact, are part of the jain religion, who doesn't drink water or anything? So your saying if someone does something wrong in the presence of Satguru then it's okay? Its time for you to go back to grade school of Sikhi.

I'm not arguing about shoes etc, but we'd all do well to remember that God is all pervading in Nirgun Saroop(Nothing/ No image) so to never do anything bad/ think bad thoughts(silence the mind with naam ie. attuning oneself to his frequency of Truth).

This is the true, most beautiful slavery- living free from maya and being nothing but a slave at his feet 24/7(by His Grace) regardless of the different images he takes on around us(all images being false as it is just all him in nirgun saroop).

God says his slaves are pure and remember him always- we should all make efforts to live up to this including eradication of the mind, and let the Actual Khalsa(the 100% pure ones with a silenced mind, living in truth 24/7) add a few more members to it.

'The ones who have Lord's Name within their mind. They alone are blessed; O Nanak, they are the perfect saints' (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, 319).

No point in doing anything without naam-

She may as well be an axe murderer if she's forgetting god-

Abstaining from whatever is no use if you've still got the mindset of a demon(Ego- thinking its you doing everything, not Him).

Benti to moderators that swear words should not allowed to be posted even when put * in the word. This type of language is not suitable for Sikh forum.

Is it really necessary to use swear words to prove a point?

Rabb Rakhe

Please excuse me for any offence caused, the word was not used in the literal sense, just an expression of emotion. But language is limited, it can never portray the power of Sat- of Gods indestructibility- words mean nothing, they are a prisoner of maya, of image(all illusion), just like our consciousness, it is the imageless emotion behind the words that matter.

It is feeling and emotion only that matters- I hoped the love I hold for Him would seep through to the reader, not the maya image of the word.

Sri GURU Nanak dev ji.

Well obviouslyy! . The greatest and most beautiful Truth Guru of all Time to be exact.

Who cares if self proclaimed sikhs want to marry whites, blacks, chinese or red indian, we're all equal in the eyes of god, coz we're all god.

Like I've said in other posts, most of the girls you call sikhs are not even Sikh(Students), and are not on the path, they may drink, take drugs, indulge in lustful actvities etc.

You cannot call a bunch of punjabis sikh just because their ancestors were students of Truth, or becuase they were born in a certain region- there is culture and there is the path of divinity, there is only 1 path- not a path in which the focus is deviated the majority of the time by giving in to the seduction of maya.

So many people on here are so caught up in culture that they fail to see that a bunch of Punjabi people with brown skin who may attend the gurdwarra a few times here and there are not True seekers/ students.

A true sikh will make the right decisions according to hukam, whether they choose to marry a typical punjabi guy, a chinese sushi chef or a white tramp living on the street. They would see you as a a true sikh, so why all the negativity, ideas of control and irritations? A false sikh will probably make the wrong decision based on their own ego and ideas, as a bhagat(devotee) you can educate them of the true path and in practicing they will gain the humbless to recognise you as a bhagat/true sikh, instead of just seeing your image.

Why not live and let the true sikhs live, let the bhagats make their own decisions, focus on your own path to Nothingness. Its not you driving them, its god, do ardas and trust him.

If a sikh flows with His hukam to marry another true student of Truth then so be it, if they decide to marry a previous athiest interested in sikhi then so be it, if the hukam is to marry a total <banned word filter activated>, then so be it.

Human attachment is false anyway, we all walk this path alone in total unattachment, we are only attached to Truth which the bhagats and sants live, but even that association need not be physical, it is spiritual in all aspects- for the bhagat does not live in the maya energy.

If we marry a great slanderer, what a great blessing for the best slanderers are the ones in our own homes, they lead us to detach from the foolishness into our masters arms, to bring total dependency upon Him, upon applying Truth to our lives and living in it.

Running away from the company of bad people day and night is not physical for we are surrounded by scum(it is Kalyug, the age of hell on earth)- if it meant physically the tuk wouldn't say run 'day and night'- it means 24/7 detachment- practicing Truth/detachment every single second of the day. It is detaching from them and rising above, raising our energy to be attuned to Truth, that is true detachment. The energies which we react with are up to us, they all come from within- we can remain detached or lower ourselves back into the scum- it is all dependant on our own psychological state of being. Do we judge and react in anger and irritation towards another(maya/5 thieves) or do we see that God himself is that person testing and teaching us and rise above the illusion.

Spread the education to all, you can preach a maya principle(that girls are not attracted to singhs) or you can teach the truth so that the people will become Sikhers and you will be recognised beyond your image.

To keep the spiritual level of the forum high it is important that we do not attack other religions or sikh jatha's.

It is fine to have a discussion/debate on issues but it is imperative that we keep a level of respect.

As this is a forum promoting Gurmat it is essential that we follow the teachings of Gurmat. I think all forums at one point or another have allowed slander of great Gursikhs and Jathebandis and also slander of other religions. This goes against teachings of Gurmat.

So benti to the moderators of this forum and other forums to not allow slander of other religions, jatha's or Gurmukhs.

Satguru Mehar Karan!

There is no dharam:

"No Hindu No muslim"- Baba Nanak.

Only Truth which is Nothing which is the only treasure which is everything and anything which is God.

It's so simple, yet we wage wars in our refusal and lack of humbleness to accept it.

Take away all the worldly bullsh*t, image including religion and what do we get- Nothing.

Thats him, most humble(To be nothing), all loving and fearless. He continuously feeds us pleasure and pain even if we end up hating him(Hes fearless- doesn't care, its for our own benefit in the end), so we accept this simple fact- all out out of love.

Wipe away what society has told you, there is only 1 path because theres only 1 Truth- it cant be changed or made up, it remains the same and infinite throughout eternity.

You cant f*ck with Truth and change it to your own liking, its too simple, humble and pure to care or change.

The fact that the bullsh*t of this khel is overcome by the one simple fact and gyan that actually Nothing exists is so indescribably Beautiful. We are all One in the nothingness and Nothing is the only treasure when the deluded folks think only Something can be a treasure- this is the only Truth in the entire universe. So simple, yet most Powerful and all pervading- pain and pleasure are just broken pieces of Truth/Balance- they hold no value alone, attached to pain or pleasure is just ignoring God in the other- Amazing.

My Prayer to the Only One who is everyone and everything that Is, was and will ever be:

Please let me never let this Truth go, whether I am slandered to the ground, praised by the majority of the universe, crowned as a ruler or tortured and killed by you yourself in the disguise of another my most Beautiful All Loving Lord- please free this soul from the illusion of pleasure and pain, of darkness and light, of heaven and hell, of the falseness that is every single Image and associated with the 6 senses- and let us(You and I together God) embrace All as One and One as All- let us bow in our heart to every darshan you give us, whether its a murderer, our slanderer or a Saint- For all is you, for you are Truth and Truth is All.

Of course God will listen to our ardases- He sees all and knows all. If we truly believe hes listening, then he is, if we have any doubts at all, that is not true fearless love- when there's fear/doubt, the love is not True.

The Tati Thavi was embraced because the Guru had no doubts, the love was pure and true- and the recognition that He is everything, everywhere- that he was both the thavi and the torturer, that the khel was in play and everything was Perfect/Hukam/Nirvair- was there.

True love can only be fearless, Nirboah and Nirvair, just like him as described in Mool Mantar.

wjkk wjkf

with guru sahibs mahaan kirpa this pile of dirt has been getting a lot of compliments from the general public, people saying " you are beautiful" " you are elegant" " you are very pretty" " i did a double take" etc

daas feels very guilty because this is guru sahibs kirpa, the grace of the dastaar and blessings of our 10th guru sahib who blessed us with the saroop of a sikh, some guys my age who arent sikh ( different race and religion) have also been giving me comments but they are less innocent and more "flirty", how can i respond to all of these people? My dad says it is good to tell them that what u see isnt me but a blessing of god because everywhere i go he is with me and thats what u see radiating from me, but he said it in punjabi so i dont know if that sounds egotistical in english or if its appropriate, any help from the sangat as to how to approach these situations will be greatly appreciated.

wjkk wjkf!

No not all guys just want one thing. Humans all want love, but we look for it in the wrong places, in an image. Image is illusion, take that away and thats where we actually find love, in Nothing, which is Truth, which is Him.

It is so simple, yet we lack the humbleness to accept this simple fact and cause drama and indulge in the thieves instead.

To the poster, your answer is Simple, the gurmukh doesnt rise to slander or praise, they are one and the same to the gurmukh.

We have no image, that is the truth- We are Nothing just like god, we just haven't realised it yet.

So what is there to be proud about, what praise is there really to listen to?

Who cares what your false body looks like to others, a true gurmukh would see you for what you really are, Nothing with no image.

saad sangat ji,

At the current time when i am typing this,there is like a storm of thoughts in my mind.i have read the japji sahib many times before,but today when i was reading the mool mantar there a thought strikes my mind.i was reading its translation in english.i started like this- ek onkar-god is one,sat nam-his name is truth.i that split second a thought strikes my mind.sat nam implies two things.first the name of the god is truth.and the second thing that comes in my mind is the [GOD IS TRUTH] god himself is truth.now think like me for a second.

Truth is one because non truth does not exist.

Truth is selfexisting and immortal and beyond births and deaths.

Truth is kind,beacause whatever happens to us whether dukh or sukh is good.

Whether there is time or not truth is truth.

Truth is formless

Truth cannot be explained.

Even in the last line guru sahib said /kiv hove sachearr/

That means how to become truth.

Sat nam appears to me like guru sahib saying to me the god you are finding is the truth himself.

And last but not the least only the true guru can explain what the truth is.

Is a bit complicated but try to think.

Also share your views to this nothing you great ones.

Good night and sat shri akal

You are on the right path, that is absolutely spot on- and is very very deep.

Keep doing naam simran on Truth(Satnam) and the gyan will unfold before your eyes- you will experience this gyan all around you.

Gurbani says God sat for millions of years/many ages discovering Truth. He lives in Truth 24/7, he has Become truth, so Truth became his Naam.

The reality is that there is no image, the form of Truth is Nothing. It is the balance- between light and dark

Imagine an invisible heart(sumbolic of God, the truth) which is cut in two. Both halves become visible. One half is black, and the other is white(symbolic of positive and negative/ pleasure and pain/ good and evil).

The halves separate do not allow the heart to beat, they are worthless and may as well be thrown in the bin. However when put together again the heart beats and there is life.

Although the truth cannot be decribed, this analogy is slightly symbolic of the value of truth(weak I know as the truth is infinite)- there is no good or bad, positive or negative, attached to one, we deny the other- hence we deny that half of ourself i.e one half of God himself- hence we live in ignorance, not Truth.

When we live in truth/balance/naam(simran), we are embracing the whole, we are embracing All of God, All of ourselves, always, not just ignoring one part of god.

Hence the Gurmukh sees plesure and pain as one, as God/Truth is everything, and is also nothing as the Truth is that there is Nothing(the primal void in gurbani from which everything and everyone(all image) was created)