TigerForce1

9 hours ago, simran345 said:

I want to watch this movie, but there's two versions (English and Punjabi). Which is the one to watch? Is the punjabi one dubbed in punjabi? I'm assuming it's the English one that's the original, but confused as to which one is? 

Just watched it last night.  Watch the English version as this is original format of the movie.  Brilliant movie, executed very well and a real eye opener of the events surrounding the life of Duleep Singh.  Really sad and tragic.  I certainly came back home with something new I had learnt.

Really poor turnout at the cinema considering it is only screened once a day and this was the second screening of the opening weekend.  Everybody should go out and support this movie!  It's simple if the revenue is low then you can forget about producers taking a risk on Sikh history related movies in the future.

7 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

I'm confused. . Are you saying there should or shouldn't be a sikh 'homeland'?

There absolutely must be one in order for us to survive, preserve and flourish.  However it needs to be one that echos our Gurus ideals, not just a name on the map.

21 hours ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

Why do you have a problem with his secularism? Secularism or rather transcending religious identity is at the heart of Guru Nanak Dev Ji message. ?

Secular governing for Sikhs in a potential homeland leaves us in a situation where we are held back from spreading our Gurus message as well as preserving and protecting our religious identity.  These are I feel the very reasons we have a demand for a Sikh Homeland and what's the point of having one if we build up walls  around us which constrain us from spreading and experiencing the Gurus teachings.

1 hour ago, dallysingh101 said:

Please don't take this the wrong way. I do understand what you are saying. But I have to say, are you sure that you aren't seeing his life and achievements through the lens of modern 'Sikhism' as opposed to Sikhi? 

Many Singhs of his time, would have had what we would consider 'unorthodox' views of the world in relation to today's Sikhs majority understanding of the Sikh way of life.  

Maybe it was his interpretation of the faith that helped him rule so conspicuously efficiently in such challenging times? Maybe it is a failure of modern Sikh leaders to do something similar that has led to our weakened position today?

You could be right! Maybe I am viewing Ranjit Singh through a lens of modern Sikhism.  I also view with a lens of bitterness when I look at the present state of Sikhs in Punjab with the negative culture and secular lifestyle that has been adopted and led to our weakened position.  I can't help but link this to Ranjit Singhs life as he is a role model to majority Punjabis and even to Badal who has quoted on many occasions that he has followed the blueprint of Ranjit Singh when it comes to governing Punjab.  

My biggest issue with Ranjit Singhs rule is the 'secular' part as Sikhi took the back seat when secular rule was his chosen  model to govern the Kingdom.  The same is happening now as secularism has been adopted by the present Akalis to the detriment of Sikhi in Punjab.   

I've gone off on a tangent now but all these things make it really difficult for me to view Ranjit Singh in a positive light but I do respect your views and opinions and also do feel there are lots of lessons to learn from his life in order to achieve sovereignty which we pray for everyday.

3 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

That's a big question people do ask. 

How much do Machiavellian characteristics and slyness help in ruling? Can anyone really be a ruler of a violent area full of naturally fractious people, itself surrounded by a host of devious and ruthless enemies (i.e. brits and afghans in Ranjit's case), and act in a 'pure' way like some people seem to be suggesting? 

For all his shortcomings, Ranjit Singh probably did one of the best jobs possible under the circumstances. Personally, I don't really care about personal human weaknesses in a political leader (within limits), I don't look to them as spiritual role models. Rather, I'd want them to ensure economic prosperity, personal freedom and national security. In his lifetime, Ranjit Singh did that admirably, and I can pretty much guarantee that all those people who negatively judge him for his disciplinary shortcomings today, wouldn't even have lasted 5 minutes in his shoes.  

I do understand your point of view in respect to of what Ranjit Singh achieved in regards of managing a state and hostile enemies together with managing the people within the Kingdom.  We are however instructed to follow the example and teachings of our Guru and the best example I can draw from with my limited knowledge is 'Miri and Piri'.  Ranjit Singh showed vast skills in 'Miri 'but completely lacked 'Piri'.  The two together are and should be the guidance model for any Sikh State and without these two I'm not sure if it can be called Sikh Raj.  Maybe this is where my expectations of Ranjit Singh differ from yours as I can only view him through a Sikh lens.

4 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

 

I wouldn't put Badal and Ranjit Singh in the same boat. The former has contributed absolutely nothing to the panth (outside of his click of wealthy zamaindaars), whilst the latter (despite all his weaknesses) turned Panjab into a modern, thriving, superpower when it was previously a constantly invaded and subjugated land from time immemorial. 

I agree Ranjit Singh does not belong in the same category as Badal but should be  held accountable for his anti Sikh practises and association with non Sikhs which ultimately put an end to what should have been 'Khalsa Raj'.  Had Ranjit Singh been living his life according to Gurmat and put his faith in the Panj Pyare the story would have been very different today.

Your statement vaguely lumped the Misls together: and "the guy that posted right after me decided to insult the Misls even more". 

I have no intention to insult Misls or Sardars!  I have merely tried to state that at certain times during our history individuals such as Ranjit Singh, Badal and countless others have misused the support given to them by GurSikhs.  At no point was support given to individuals or statesmen for personal conquests and expansion only for establishing Khalsa Raj.  I apologise if I have offended anyone!

The misls were 12 clans ruled by 12 chieftains and your assuming it was these clans that were consolidated into one and ruled by one Chieftain who established Khalsa Raj.  No this would not have been possible without the support of everyday GurSikh man and women of Punjab who gave their blood and souls for establishing Khalsa Raj not a kingdom for a Chieftan/Monarch of a secular state.  The Chieftain Ranjit Singh and the previous Chieftains of the 12 misls misused the support of GurSikhs to establish Kingdoms or rule turfs as you put it in their own names.  The same has been seen in recent times where politicians such as Badal have played the Sikh card for gaining Sikh votes in the name of a Sikh Akali Party and totally misused the power they were entrusted with and done complete opposite to a Party in line with a Sikh ethos.  

Basically what I am saying is these leaders such as Ranjit Singh and Badals and so on would have nothing without Sikh support and they've turned their backs on their faith and Guru that enabled them to scale such heights.  The everyday people eventually turn their backs on these type of leaders too and all that is left is a 'Black Prince' who wants to return to the his fathers Kingdom to reclaim something that should never have been.  When Khalsa Raj does come to this world it will be for the GURU and it will be permanent!

The Youth of Punjab are in deep slumber or off their faces high on narcotics.  The only people left to protest are the middle aged men who still care for Sikhi.  The youth are far too busy chasing views and likes on social media and unfortunately you don't become popular or a Bhangra star by talking, sharing or protesting for real problems the Punjabis are facing.  

That's not to say that every Punjabi is dead on the inside there is still a small active number that are awake and awaiting the next course of action.  Maybe the SYL issue will be a wake up call to the ranjeh with rose tinted glasses who often accuse the NRI's of stirring trouble in Punjab.

Armed struggle is not even a possibility yet but maybe getting the youth to raise a arm in protest may happen.

Nihung Singhs- sleep, train in use shastars, horse seva, prepare sukha, jhatkaa some goats and stay away of real world problems.  Rinse and Repeat!

Punjab Youth- drugs, alcohol, bhangra, Bhagat Singh and facebook.  Rinse and Repeat!

Do not expect anything too spectacular!

Let's face it Sikhi was sidelined by Maharaja Ranjit Singh way before the British set their sights on the Punjab.  The Nihung Singhs had already started to protest against Ranjit Singhs anti-Sikh ways and it would have just been a matter of time before there would have been a violent clash between the secular monarchy and the real Sikhs of the time.  Duleep Singhs fate was already destined to be separated from Sikhi.  Maharaja Ranjit Singh had brilliant qualities of a leader but his lavish and anti-Sikh lifestyle is the reason we are facing the problems of being stateless today.

Although the story of Duleep Singh is sad we must not forget that the Sikh 'nishaana' of the time was never to be ruled by a secular Monarch but to establish 'Khalsa Raj' and to be led by the 'Khalsa'.

Oh I forgot to mention the most important tip!

'Make sure you're wearing a good pair of trainers so you can exit fast when the Jutiaan start flying.'

It's always best to the above steps with the right posture.  You must always insure that your right foot is firmly planted on the floor and your left foot above the ground (a chair is perfect).  Your left hand should be sitting on your left hip and your head should be slightly tilted to the right while you adjust your musch.

Also remember it's always better to practice technique in the presence of your in-laws.

Hope this was helpful and please let us know how it played out.

The flexing of muscles has begun!

China invests in it's naval defence.

India carries out gas exploration ventures in the South China Sea.

China warns India to stay away.

India leases a new nuclear submarine from Russia.

India tests a new missile capable of reaching China.

China plays it cool by reminding India can be reached without using any of their own missiles as Pakistan fires their own missile!

China is clearly the winner!  No shots fired or aggression shown but clearly understood!

Fantastic post!

Just heard your post mentioned by Dal Khalsa Kanwarpal Singh Bittu's interview on Sikh Channel!

Jaspal Singh, an 18 year old Sikh Boy, was an Engineering Student and was killed by Punjab Police, while he was peacefully protesting against hanging of Bhai Balwant Singh Rajoana. In a related video on what is going on in Punjab, one can clearly see bunch of Punjab Policemen brutally beating and firing gun shots at unarmed Sikh youth who are running away to save their lives. And what is more appalling is that these Police Officers are themselves turbaned, and so at the least they look Sikh.

So that leads me to the question - Why was an 18 year old Sikh Engineering Student shot dead by State Police, while he was clearly unarmed and was peacefully protesting?

In an oppressive regime, there are broadly 2 ways in which a minority can survive. For the ease of understanding, let us classify the people belonging to the minority faith into Type 1 and Type 2 people.

Type 1 people wake up every morning, and then make an effort to prove their allegiance to the Majority led State Establishment in every possible way. A simple example would be to sit in the middle of your friends, and crack jokes at your community, and show them that even though I am a Sikh and look different, but I am a harmless, spineless creature and hence, you don’t need to fear me. In return, these people are rewarded by the State, sometimes even offered leadership positions in the Government. Case in point is Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, who has proved that he is the weakest Prime Minister that India has ever had. I can go on and on about Manmohan, but that would be digressing from the point.

Type 1 people come in all shapes and sizes. Sometimes, these people in their urgent and desperate need to appease the majority would commit the most heinous atrocities on people belonging to their own faith. The name of Prakash Singh Badal, the Punjab Chief Minister immediately comes to my mind. Other names include the so-called Butcher of Punjab, the super cop – KPS Gill and ex-Chief Minister of Punjab Beant Singh. It is not surprising that whenever Badal is in position, even peacefully protesting Sikhs are attacked and murdered ruthlessly in broad day light. This phenomenon is not new. Two Sikh boys were killed on March 29, 2012; however in the past also, 13 peacefully protesting Sikhs were shot dead in 1978, during Badal’s regime. How Badal protected the murderer of 1978 Sikh victims would be a topic of another discussion.

One of the video very clearly shows the Punjab Police chasing and attacking peacefully gathered Sikh youth. They are firing as if they are at war, at war with the Civilian Sikhs, who are all hiding and running away for their lives. On their return, these so called police officers are hugged and cheered by the Shiv Sainiks, who are shouting slogans and chanting “Har Har Mahadev”; and hence these Type 1 Sikhs feel comforted by the precious approval of Shiv Sena that they have attained by attacking and firing gun shots at unarmed protestors.

For me, the face of Type 2 Sikhs is people like Bhai Balwant Singh Rajoana, as well as the people who are protesting to show solidarity with him. Such people would rather die than accept an oppressive regime, where the mass-murderers of Sikhs are protected and rewarded, while innocent Sikh civilians are killed in a State Sponsored Genocide.

For me, the face of the Type 2 Sikhs is a young boy shown in one of the videos. This boy is clearly unarmed, but he is not even running away or hiding for protection, when the policemen attack him. He is just standing their quietly and taking pride in being beaten brutally by the Police Officers because he does not expect anything else but gross injustice from the Indian Justice System.

These Type 2 Sikhs are not irrational or stupid; instead they just want to live with their head held high. They demand justice. They want to see the perpetrators of 1984 genocide convicted and punished. They want to see the people who killed thousands of innocents in Punjab during 1990’s through fake encounters and illegal abductions being punished; and until that happen there cannot be any sustainable peace.

Ayatlolla Khomeini!  Irans supreme spiritual leader was believed to have spent his early years in Lukhnow, India.  It said he spent those years in the close Sangat of some Sikhs so this is where the inspiration for creating Irans flag may have come from.  Khomeini personally oversaw the design of the flag himself after overthrowing the Shah.

I researched this many years ago and you can google results and forums which lean towards his theory.

Absolute pathetic post by someone who has no faith in the abilities of Khalsa warfare or the Martyrdom of the forefathers of our faith. 

To justify taking intoxicants to give one the confidence to face sure death takes away the shine off the sacrifices and pain endured by those great souls that laid down their lives for the Sikh faith.  Bhai Mati Das Ji,  Bhai Sati Das Ji,  Bhai Taru Singh Ji,  Baba Deep Singh Singh Ji,  Baba Banda Singh Bahadur Ji,  Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale Ji and countless Shaheeds from modern and past era never used any intoxicant potions to attain martyrdom.

Also to clarify "Bhang is Marjuana"!

The base ingredient is not Tobacco or Alcohol it is simply Marujuana which is crushed into a paste and mixed into a Milk drink with nuts.  

Tobacco is especially frowned upon in Sikhism because it causes harm and contaminates its surroundings which is why it is called 'Jagat Jooth' in Sikhism.  

Bhang falls into the categories of Alcohol and Drugs that affect the mind.  All of these have been forbidden in Sikhism.  So making exemptions for it's use for the battlefield and giving it a new name does not take away the fact of it still being a intoxicant.  

No Singh or shaheed needs or relied on Bhang to face their enemy on the battlefield.  The only thing those great souls were intoxicated with was the name of the Guru, Their Belief in Bani!

Use your brain and ask your soul for these answers and I'm sure no one can believe that the Guru needed chemicals to trick the mind of his Singhs to convince them of being able to face their enemy.  We are way to strong to rely on any form of intoxicants!

Balwant Singh Rajoana is facing his enemy today and he is no way or form relying on Shaheedi Degh/Bhang. He is intoxicated on Naam Simran!

The Jews may be powerful when we measure material wealth and political clout but how close are they to realising god.  They've been through an horrible ordeal but how much humanity do they show to towards their neighbours in Palestine.  From being the prey they have become the predators illegally occupying Palestinian lands.

Why should we aspire to be like Jews!  I doubt if Sikhs during 16th century were aspiring to be like Mughals.  We should aspire to be like our forefathers and we should create our own destiny not look for blue prints set out by communities who have nothing in common with us regarding ideology or morals.

I've often thought about that question. I just refer to the Baaz/Baaj as birds of prey!

I agree that change is needed fast but in order for real change to manifest it will ultimately need to happen from within.  We as Sikhs  from outside of Punjab are a minority and our pressure from outside has very little affect on the decision makers in Punjab, the real challenge is waking the people of Punjab to take action against the corrupt SGPC to free the Akal Takht Sahib.   

Any kind of Global Misls will need the backing of the Akal Takht Sahib in order to get the right recognition and if the Misls start to challenge the SGPC in any way or form then they will face the risk of being ex communicated.  At present the Global Sikhs do not face these consequences when Jathedars are cornered when visiting oversees, as most question them as individuals and not as organisations.  Small individual efforts like these disturb the peace of Jathedars as there is little that they can do as far as disciplining Sikhs when they have no control over the Gurughars abroad.

The SGPC would probably back a Sikh Misl system so they can control the minds of Global Sikhs and put an end to Jathedars facing harassment from overseas.  The first demand for such a system from SGPC would be toatal control of foreign Gurughars.   

It's hard enough to digest that Badal controls Punjabs Gurughars.  I wouldn't want to open up the doorways for Badal calling the shots in the West.

Education is what is needed and we all need to make greater efforts to educate the youth of Punjab on the importance of the vote in the SGPC elections. This should be more important for us than Punjab elections or our local elections abroad as the SGPC candidates are the policy makers when it comes to our faith. Our top priority right now should be divising plans to seperate SGPC from the Akali Dal so it can be an independent organisation free from Punjab politics.

Great idea! Would be good if a world wide Misl system could be established but there is also a danger of it being controlled or infiltrated by corrupt individuals from the likes of the SGPC. Presently the wider world Sikh community is independent and free to protest and voice their concerns regarding Sikh and Panthic issues but this could change if we were to be under an global umbrella group. Controlling such an organisation would require clean people and this something we lack.

The relationship between the people of Punjab and it's politicians is similar to that of an abused wife to an abusive husband. No matter how much sense and advice you give her, she keeps going back to live a life of hell.

We can talk on this subject for endless hours but what we say or do will make no sense to those people. They will cry and swear at their newly elected government for the entire duration of term but will make the same mistakes of re- electing these paracites over and over again.

I feel that the PPP should win as we all know how the Akalis and Congress have failed the people of Punjab.  Up until now the voting in Punjab favours the two parties but now there is an opportunity for people to test the waters with Manpreet Badal.  Let's face it what has anybody got to lose?

The unfortunate thing is that I really would like a pro Khalistan Party to win but this will not happen as nobody in Punjab wants to entertain the thought.  Maan is a good clean person but an awful politician with no direction.  He should have approached Daljit Singh Bittu group and Manpreet Badal and the three should have formed a coalition based on Anna Hazares anti corruption policies to win over the public.  

The likelihood of PPP alone winning the election is slim but it will inflict damage to Badal Akali Dal but in the process will also inflict damage to Congress votes too.  What would have been a victory for Congress in this election may play into the hands of Badal now with a third party.

My only hope is the PPP wins enough seats so that Congress or the Akali Dal will have to form a coalition with the PPP.  Similar to the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats in the UK where the least popular party became the most important player in parliament.  

The people of Punjab are no different than any other nation.  When pain is inflicted they feel it and only then do they respond in protest. At the moment the youth are numbing that pain of social injustice by turning to intoxicants.  The ones that don't abuse drugs are numbing their pain by purchasing worldly goods such as cars, motorbikes and gadgets.  Similar to comfort food syndrome.

All these comforts and measures to block out pain have a common factor which is 'Money'.  As soon as this starts to dry up and means of access such as Finance start to close, then the youth of Punjab will be left with no other option than to revolt.

Coming back to my earlier point 'Punjabis' are comfortable for now!  You cannot not force a revelution'.  But no government can halt one of the conditions are right and Punjab is simmering towards one very soon.