Sherdil

Bikrami calendar is lunar based, therefore the dates change from year to year.

Nanakshahi calendar is more practical, especially since the whole world uses the Gregorian calendar.

Thus, our holidays are easier to officially recognize in all countries, as we are now a global diaspora.

It just makes sense.

They may be idol worshippers or may not be idol worshippers. What defines if one is idol worshiper or not is one's perception surrounding the object/picture rather than object/picture itself near them...who am i to know state of individual/devotee? Only Vahiguroo Ji knows inner self of an individual!!!!!

An idol worshipper is defined by the act of worshipping an idol (inanimate object). It has nothing to do with their inner-self.

Standing in front of a portrait of Guru Nanak, with hands folded, and saying a prayer / asking the pic for blessings is idol worship.

Respect to Baba Nand ji.

If Nanaksaris are all about Guru Nanak, then why don't they have langar?

The practice of langar was started by Guru Nanak dev ji.

Dasam Granth, pannaa 41

so catholics are idol worshippers? This missionary paranoia is just mind boggling. Waheguru.

I'm not a missionary, as I believe in Dasam Granth.

What's with all these labels nowadays? What happened to just being a Sikh?

I don't follow any group or jathebandi.

Not sure why would you bring hindus into this discussion. Nevertheless, if you must then what you think about Christians?? They got jesus christ pictures/idols everywhere in their church- does that make them idol worshipers by your standards?

Bro, the points you made could be copied and pasted onto a Hindu forum, in support of murti pooja.

It says in the Bible not to make statues of gold and worship them. Catholics do it anyways.

Puratan approach: No need to destroy/remove pictures, iconography, frescos, artistic expressions, pictures in puratan manuscripts etc, because puratan approach understands it's not the picture which is the issue at hand, but issue lies at individual perception/mindset towards it. Puratan approach/parchar works directly with individual consciousness perception, helps an individual to change their perception- rise above from it.

Those frescos you are referring to depict historical scenes. Nobody is saying they should be destroyed. The matter at hand are the portraits (mostly made by Sobha Singh) which people pray to.

If an individual is beginner puratan parchar lets the individual draw contrast from the pictures and let individual seeks devotion/inspriation from it but at the same time, advising many subtle notions or dangers of idol worshipping such as confining vahiguroo in a picture that vahiguroo divinity is sargun, nirgun and shabad form all intertwin with each other.

That's the same argument given by Hindus for allowing idol worship, a practice which is not condoned in the Hindu scriptures. Initially they allowed it because they say it is a way for people with low spirituality to focus on God. They also believe that God is in all creation, therefore praying to a rock is not wrong. Guru Granth Sahib ji has elevated us above such thinking.

Puratan parchar encourages an individual to rise above from individual perception of idolization wrapping their head around only one aspect of Vahiguroo divinity as divinity itself is never ending flow, how can individual perception/consciousness idolize an flow?? So when people start realizing -through puratan parchar- deep theological sermons, when they start realizing that that divinity is not confined to pictures/visual idiolization/visual contrast in people's head so their perception naturally rises upwards by divine vahiguroo grace, as they are slowly at their own pace start connecting with divine flow.

Again, this argument is used is Hinduism. They say that people will slowly graduate from worshipping idols, to realizing the Supreme Brahman, or "divine flow" as you have put it. Guru ji taught us that we can realize God by meditating on Naam and contemplating gurbani.

I wish we could stick to the crux of the debate. How do we get people to stop praying to pics of Guru Sahiban? If there is no logical solution, then the only thing that is left to do is remove these portraits, at least from our gurdwaras.

The issue is not just about accuracy. It is about praying to pics.

Teach them all you want, some people don't wanna listen. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

I have seen Sikhs praying to pics of Guru Sahiban. Instead of reading Guru Granth Sahib, they just stand in front of the pic and do a short ardas.

Guru Granth Sahib ji da satkar is not idol worship because guru ji is not an idol. Adi Granth has teachings within it that you can learn from and apply to your life. It has the writings of almost all the Gurus. If that isn't worthy of reverence, then what is?

Is there any painting of Guru Sahiban done while they were alive? Has it been verified?

Why do you need these representations anyway? To decorate your house? If it is for educational purposes, then I don't mind paintings of historical scenes where Guru ji isn't the main focus. What education can you receive, just by looking at a portrait?

People have pics of their family members, but at least those pics are accurate. Guru Sahibans pics have been drawn from the imagination of an artist, 100's of years later. They probably don't even look like them.

I have seen countless times, someone standing in front of a Guru Sahib pic, with their hands folded and eyes closed. If we are going to allow pics then how do we stop this practice, as it is against the basics of Sikhi.

I think we should consider that pics of Guru Sahiban were only made after Guru Gobind Singh ji's time. They didn't want pics because they knew that people would start worshipping the pics.

If you don't worship the pics, then good. But what about those less-enlightened people?

Fantastic news!!!

I wish the best of luck to my new Sikh brothers.

I know a guy who ties his joora at the back and wears a bandana...

He looks like a pirate, or a ninja turtle.

sayapa ta ta v pai jana if kaurs start huggin singhs, since its hug a singh week or something anybody cud give any singh a hug

Haha, sahee gal hai.

Par mai ta bach gayah.

Jeh koi janaani neh mainu jappeeh pah lahee, phir mera kee kasoor?

“To be brief, Nanak’s followers scorn images. Their belief is that all Gurus are Nanak...They do not recite the mantras of the Hindus and do not pay respect to their idol-temples. They do not count the avtaras for anything. They do not have any attachment to Sanskrit, which the Hindus call the language of angels”

The above was noted by Persian historian Mobid, in his book Dabistan-i-Mazahib, written around 1645.

Translated by Irfan Habib and J.S. Grewal: Sikh History from Persian Sources (page 66).

Tuhilka, New Delhi (2001)

Does sitting outside a girl's house with a machete and blood-shot eyes fall into bad boy territory? Would she like that? I can never find the right balance.

LOL...You are such a romantic!

Some might be into that. You just gotta find the right girl for you.

Can you slow down a bit? I'm taking notes.... So girls like bad boys? That's where I was going wrong?!? :biggrin2:

.

I guess so veer ji.

I've started being somewhat of a bad boy myself.

Today I used a fork to eat my cereal...so bad...

Remind me not to fall on hard times with some of you around as support! :blink2:

I don't agree with the boyfriend / girlfriend bakwaas, but if she has found herself in a situation with the guy, then the least she can do is try to help him to relinquish the bottle. Or am I underestimating the pyaar between a man and his drink? If not, then why exactly was the relationship entered into in the beginning? Was it only to be there for each other during the good times? I suggests she leaves the relationship with her head held high if she has found herself in this mess.

OP has only known her boyfriend for 9 months. He has already been to rehab twice during this time period. She has tried to help him, but it leads to arguments and it is becoming an emotional drain on her.

At what point do you say enough is enough?

Lol, I agree with Moderator ji. She prob isn't even reading our posts anymore.

EDIT: I've heard that some girls are attracted to "bad boys" because the girls think they can change them. They take pride in knowing they were the only ones who could tame the "bad boy".

Lol idk, that's just what I've heard.

Freedom from reality.

In Matrix the other side was a complete disaster.

I don't think you know what reality is.

The other side was the real world. It was harsh, but they chose to live in reality, rather than have a curtain of falsehood draped over their eyes.

Have you ever had a dream where you felt like you were falling?

Descartes - "I think therefore I am"

My dastaar and dhari are like insect repellent.

From afar, people can see that I am a religious person.

It keeps the bad critters away.

Daily rehat is like a routine, to reach a higher level of spirituality.

It's similar to how a bodybuilder uses a routine to achieve results.

Repetition makes perfect.

So many of these consecutive shootings. All while the anti-gun legislation is in govt.

I'm not pro or anti-gun, but I do feel that these shootings are not merely a coincidence.

By scaring the American people, they can win enough support to defeat the gun-lobby.

It's a case of ends justifying the means.

Guru Sahib sheds some light on the subject.

Guru Nanak dev ji, Raag Saarang, Pannaa 1245, Salok, First Mehla: