Punjabi_Link

Lets call a spade a spade regarding your comments. What kind of RACIST DISCRIMINATORY comment is that AGAINST SIKHS from someone who claims SIKHI? A crime like this against the backdrop of present western mindframe about Sikhs means that turban and beard is erroneously magnified ten-thousandfold to create a frenzy of hate and disgust for the image, rather than the act or actor. You are well aware that is what people will notice. If a mona killed his wife, the color of the skin would be magnified but far less than the beard and turban. If it was a white man, the race or religion would not come into play. Whether you are capable of expressing those thoughts or not, you do understand them. Yet, a self claimed sikh like you, decides to piggy back on the mainstream racism for the Sikh image! Whaaaa! Self claimed sikh? :wub: Ha. You should read what your fellow brothers and sisters said about monay so you can see where I am coming from with this issue. I hope you don't mind but I have to say I agree that ure comments are abit retarded and I have been reading you even more now....do you know you go off randomly on tangents and don't stick to the topic in question...like you just did in this topic! Its your trademark...I read a topic and its like oh whose doing a tangent....oh its punjabi_link (typical punjabi thing to do innit - pun intended) Past examples Sitargirl: Sikhi is about having both inner and outer....without either you are not complete. Punjabi_link: I know a kid whose mum cut his hair Sitargirl: :wub: WTH has this got to do with what I said...you still gots to aim to have both Another topic POSTER: ARGH I AM A GUY and SO CONFUSED ABOUT KESH Sitargirl: keep it cos no need to remove! Punjabi_link: Yea man sikhs have double standards what about the Girls cos I know a girl who doesn't. I actually thought You had like a serious point you know - so I explained how girls keep it aswell. Sitargirl: Yea girls keep it Punjabi_Link: well I know an amritdhari girl who has chin hair Sitargirl: OMG I UNDERSTAND PUNJABI_LINK............FINALLY......(I didn't write That though) But lets get this straight you know a girl who doesn't keep kesh and one that does but has chin hair...errr....between you and me this is what they call a SH*TStirer. No positive contributions other than to make confusions....I would call you a pro at that. Seriously great talent for if you ever want to divide and rule. Also lemme tell you ur method - you sh*tstir by babbling on about how you know so and so. At first its like awww don't worry about them just focus on doing the best yourself....but then it becomes clear you don't wanna know that....you just wanna talk about so and so and this makes you sound oh so prehistoric. Its as if you are so over run with emotion that you don't give a damn about the ACTUAL TOPIC. Take a breath, look at all your posts. Lay the Sh*tstiring to a rest and become the best sikh yourself. OMG I highly doubt you have been following my posts lately. Until this thread (and amritdhari vs. monay thread in general section) I haven’t been talking <admin-profanity filter activated> about your people on this website. Check all my recent posts if you don’t believe me. By the way, you are forgetting few things I mention in our previous conversations in the past. You’re just taking my comments way out of context with those past conversations.

***MOD REMOVED*** woahhh do u read what you type before pressing send? you are comparing cutting your hair, to a jatha?????? guru sahib specifically said, to be an amritdhari gursikh, one must not cut their hair as it is one of the bujjar kurehits where did guru sahib mention anything about jathebande? and why have you brought jathebande into this? No buddy, you fail to realize that it is easy to pick flaws on anyone. The point I was trying to make is that jatha isn't supported by sikh gurus so why follow it? What makes it any different than cutting hair? If you want people following true sikhi, then give up your jatha and take (real) amrit and be a "true" sikh first. If you aren't a true sikh, then how can you say who is a sikh or who isn't? I hope you read this post before the mods delete it. what makes jathebande different to cutting your hair, is that ONE IS A BUJJAR KUREHIT DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH where does guru jee say anything about jatha???? it is know to EVRYONE tht guru gobind singh jee said, tht cutting your hair is a bujjar kurehit mate, your making a fool of yourself comparing jathe to a bujjar kurehit real amrit? there is only one amrit mate, where the correct rehit is given out and the panj pyare are abyiaasi gursikhs That is my point! Sikh gurus never mention anything about jathas, then why are you following it? Your amrit is fake since you got it from a man made group. Anyway, this my last post about jathas in this thread.

Those who have cutt their hair r not sehajdharis but PATITS SEHAJDHHARI term has been misinterpreted by rss and communist people sehajdhari as per SGPC ACT 1925 is that person with uncutt hair but without AMRIT. What are you talking about? Sehajdhari applies to those who don't keep their 5 k's. There is also a term called "keshdhari" in SGPC Act 1925 as well. They're sikhs who wear turbans, but never took amrit. Patit is describe in SGPC act 1925 as keshdhari who trim/cut their hair and amritdhari who commit one of 4-5 sins. THE SIKH GURDWARAS ACT, 1925: Sikh “Sikh” means a person who professes the Sikh religion or, in the case of a deceased person, who professed the Sikh religion or was known to be a Sikh during his life time. If any question arises as to whether any living person is or is not a Sikh, he shall be deemed respectively to be or not to be a Sikh according as he makes or refuses to make in such manner as the [Provincial Government], may prescribe the following declaration:- I solemnly affirm that I am a Sikh, that I believe in the Guru Granth Sahib, that I believe in the Ten Gurus and that I have no other religion “Amritdhari Sikh” means and includes every person who has taken khande-ka-amrit or khanda pahul prepared and administered according to the tenets of Sikh religion and rites, at the hands of five pyaras or `beloved ones’.” “Patit” means a person who being a keshadhari Sikh trims or shaves his beard or keshas or who after taking amrit commits any one or more of the kurahits].” [49. Qualifications of electors.— Every person shall be entitled to have his name registered on the electoral roll of a constituency constituted for the election of a member or members of the Board who is a resident in that constituency and either— (i) is on the electoral roll for the time being in force of persons entitled to vote for the election of a member to represent a Sikh urban or rural constituency of the [Provincial Assembly], or (ii) is a Sikh more than twenty-one years of age, who has had his name registered as a voter in such manner as may be prescribed: Provided that no person shall be registered as an elector who— (a) trims or shaves his beard or keshas except in case of sehjdhari; (b) smokes; © takes alcoholic drinks.] Notice how sehajdhari are excluded when comes to hair? http://punjablaws.gov.pk/laws/33.html#_ftnref49 u r just showing unamended act as per new amended act added by in 2001 SEHAJDHARI has been redifined which was challenaged in PUNJAB AND HARYANA HIGH COURT BUT DB LED BY SINGHVI PASSED ORDER IN FAVOUR OF AMENDMENT AND SO BADLY SNUBED THE PETITIONERS AND ASKED THEM IF THEY CONSISDER THEMSELVES HIGHER THAN GURU JI REHAT CANNOT BE ALTERED . SEHAJDHARI FEDERATION CHIEF WITH RSS LINKS WENT TO SUPREME COURT DESPITE THE FACT THAT CASE WAS ADMITTED IN HIGH COURT AND WAS PENDING AND SEHAJDHARI CHIEF WAS ASKED TO GET OUT OF SUPREME COURT AND THEIR ADVOCATE ALSO GOT GOOD DRESSING DOWN BY JUDGES WHICH IS ON RECORD AND THESE RSS AGENTS KEEP ON BOASTING BUT AND 2004 ELECTIONS WERE HELD ACCORDING TO NEW AMENDMENT WHICH DEFINES SEHAJDHARI AS THOSE SIKHS WITH UNCUTT HAIR BUT WITHOUT AMRIT. DO NOT MISLEAD OTHERS BY UNAMENDED ACT NEW ACT WITH AMENDMENT IS AVAILALE IN A BOOK WRITTEN BY ADVOCATE NAVKIRAN SINGH PLEASE GO THROUGH NEW ACT. even old SEHAJDHARI DEFINITION was through act in 90s which created a lot of heat Dude, don’t type all your letters on caps lock. It is hard to read. Anyway, you said the act 1925 has been changed? If so, then can you please provide me the new act?

I will try to find that article ASAP. But for now, check this link out: http://www.iuscanada.com/journal/articles/definingASikh.pdf Interesting read. HA. Isn’t he the guy got owned on that anti sikh – Islam website? Anyway, I didn’t bother replying to that guy since he is nothing but a troll. Check this debate out: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/14...sehajdhari.html to see why I call him a troll. So in that case, I will stop going to gurdwara since I am not sikh according to the rehit. This also means I will stop helping out sikhs and I will tell all sikh elders who always greet me with “Sri Sat Akal” to stop greeting me with that slogan since I am not sikh according the rehit.

Common sense veera ... these are medical problems... as long as no hair are removed from the person's body, he/she should be deemed kesdhari. Dude, you seriously make me laugh. :wub: So you're telling me that if someone cut a baby's hair, then the baby becomes a patit? I hope you realize that parents are the ones making decisions for their babies. It isn't like a baby is cutting hair on his/her own will.

How is the english translations are wrong? lemme start you off here rwh dovY ieku jwxY soeI isJsI ] Rāh ḏovai ik jāṇai so­ī sijẖsī. One who recognizes that all spiritual paths lead to the One shall be emancipated. dovY means 2, where did the word all come from in the english translation? again, show me some bani that supports it and i'll be happy to agree. I already posted my quote. Right now, you said my quote is false, fair enough, but how about you post a quote from Guru Granth Sahib to back up your claim?

***MOD REMOVED*** woahhh do u read what you type before pressing send? you are comparing cutting your hair, to a jatha?????? guru sahib specifically said, to be an amritdhari gursikh, one must not cut their hair as it is one of the bujjar kurehits where did guru sahib mention anything about jathebande? and why have you brought jathebande into this? No buddy, you fail to realize that it is easy to pick flaws on anyone. The point I was trying to make is that jatha isn't supported by sikh gurus so why follow it? What makes it any different than cutting hair? If you want people following true sikhi, then give up your jatha and take (real) amrit and be a "true" sikh first. If you aren't a true sikh, then how can you say who is a sikh or who isn't? I hope you read this post before the mods delete it.

Just going by the definitions you gave veere. A keshdhari becomes patit whn he/she cuts his hair. A sahejdhari is someone who doesn't keep his/her hair. and my common sense says a person can never be born as sehajdhari, he/she is born a kesdhari. So if he cuts his/her hair or his/her parents do that, that makes him/her a patit. You have your views but i guess i am done here... a person cuttin is kes or an amritdhari commiting a bujher kurehit are patits. We can come up with a million definitions to push forward our agenda but SGPC hasn't said anything about parents cutting the kids hair or no... so yeah nonetheless, i don't care who's who. all are equal in my eyes :wub: . What if a baby is born with no hair or any hair at all? Can a bald headed baby be consider a keshdhari?

How is the english translations are wrong? Maybe Guru Ji started sikhi because sikhi is the fastest path to reach god. :wub:

Don't follow the 5 k's means person who isn't wearing all 5 k's at the same time. Sorry for lack of better words to describe what I meant. I don't think it is fair to use that example since parents are the ones making decisions for the baby. Let's consider all babies are keshdhari here for a sec, what if their parents decided to cut their hair, does that make them patits now?

Well I don't expect to get any sympathy from you anyway. why you so bitter lets see some gurbani to support that :wub: Guru Granth Sahib, Page 142: ਬਦਫੈਲੀ ਗੈਬਾਨਾ ਖਸਮੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਈ ॥ बदफैली गैबाना खसमु न जाणई ॥ Baḏfailī gaibānā kẖasam na jāṇ­ī. The foolish demon, who does evil deeds, does not know his Lord and Master. ਸੋ ਕਹੀਐ ਦੇਵਾਨਾ ਆਪੁ ਨ ਪਛਾਣਈ ॥ सो कहीऐ देवाना आपु न पछाणई ॥ So kahī­ai ḏėvānā āp na pacẖẖāṇ­ī. Call him a mad-man, if he does not understand himself. ਕਲਹਿ ਬੁਰੀ ਸੰਸਾਰਿ ਵਾਦੇ ਖਪੀਐ ॥ कलहि बुरी संसारि वादे खपीऐ ॥ Kaleh burī sansār vāḏė kẖapī­ai. The strife of this world is evil; these struggles are consuming it. ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਵੇਕਾਰਿ ਭਰਮੇ ਪਚੀਐ ॥ विणु नावै वेकारि भरमे पचीऐ ॥ viṇ nāvai vėkār bẖarmė pacẖī­ai. Without the Lord's Name, life is worthless. Through doubt, the people are being destroyed. ਰਾਹ ਦੋਵੈ ਇਕੁ ਜਾਣੈ ਸੋਈ ਸਿਝਸੀ ॥ राह दोवै इकु जाणै सोई सिझसी ॥ Rāh ḏovai ik jāṇai so­ī sijẖsī. One who recognizes that all spiritual paths lead to the One shall be emancipated. ਕੁਫਰ ਗੋਅ ਕੁਫਰਾਣੈ ਪਇਆ ਦਝਸੀ ॥ कुफर गोअ कुफराणै पइआ दझसी ॥ Kufar go­a kufrāṇai pa­i­ā ḏajẖsī. One who speaks lies shall fall into hell and burn. ਸਭ ਦੁਨੀਆ ਸੁਬਹਾਨੁ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਈਐ ॥ सभ दुनीआ सुबहानु सचि समाईऐ ॥ Sabẖ ḏunī­ā sub­hān sacẖ samā­ī­ai. In all the world, the most blessed and sanctified are those who remain absorbed in Truth. ਸਿਝੈ ਦਰਿ ਦੀਵਾਨਿ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਈਐ ॥੯॥ सिझै दरि दीवानि आपु गवाईऐ ॥९॥ Sijẖai ḏar ḏīvān āp gavā­ī­ai. ||9|| One who eliminates selfishness and conceit is redeemed in the Court of the Lord. ||9||

I remember reading an article that said some eye witness at 1699 Vaisakhi said that Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that Sehajdhari, amritdharis and some other group (I can’t remember the name) are all his Sikhs.

Sehajdhari don't keep their hair while Keshdahri do. That is the main difference. but sehajdharis are kesdharis at some point in their life...aren't they? What do you mean? A Sehajdhari is the one doesn't follow 5 k's, but once he/she keeps his/her hair and start wearing a turban, then he/she is a keshdhari. But you got to remember those definitions from the act 1925 are described more as political terms than spiritually terms.

Sehajdhari don't keep their hair while Keshdahri do. That is the main difference.

***MOD NOTE: FIRST WARNING. IF YOU BRING JATTHA BASHING INTO ANY MORE OF YOUR POSTS YOU WILL BE PUT UNDER MODERATION. THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE. HAVE RESPECT FOR OTHERS/JATTHAS EVEN IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THEM.***

Well I don’t expect to get any sympathy from you anyway.

so kesdhari is like a sub-category of sehajdhari? howcan a person be kesdhari if he cuts/trims his/her hair? ps: is the copy of this act available online?? Read my edited above post. When a Keshdhari cuts his/her hair, then he/she would be consider a patit.

Those who have cutt their hair r not sehajdharis but PATITS SEHAJDHHARI term has been misinterpreted by rss and communist people sehajdhari as per SGPC ACT 1925 is that person with uncutt hair but without AMRIT. What are you talking about? Sehajdhari applies to those who don't keep their 5 k's. There is also a term called "keshdhari" in SGPC Act 1925 as well. They're sikhs who wear turbans, but never took amrit. Patit is describe in SGPC act 1925 as keshdhari who trim/cut their hair and amritdhari who commit one of 4-5 sins. THE SIKH GURDWARAS ACT, 1925: Sikh “Sikh” means a person who professes the Sikh religion or, in the case of a deceased person, who professed the Sikh religion or was known to be a Sikh during his life time. If any question arises as to whether any living person is or is not a Sikh, he shall be deemed respectively to be or not to be a Sikh according as he makes or refuses to make in such manner as the [Provincial Government], may prescribe the following declaration:- I solemnly affirm that I am a Sikh, that I believe in the Guru Granth Sahib, that I believe in the Ten Gurus and that I have no other religion “Amritdhari Sikh” means and includes every person who has taken khande-ka-amrit or khanda pahul prepared and administered according to the tenets of Sikh religion and rites, at the hands of five pyaras or `beloved ones’.” “Patit” means a person who being a keshadhari Sikh trims or shaves his beard or keshas or who after taking amrit commits any one or more of the kurahits].” [49. Qualifications of electors.— Every person shall be entitled to have his name registered on the electoral roll of a constituency constituted for the election of a member or members of the Board who is a resident in that constituency and either— (i) is on the electoral roll for the time being in force of persons entitled to vote for the election of a member to represent a Sikh urban or rural constituency of the [Provincial Assembly], or (ii) is a Sikh more than twenty-one years of age, who has had his name registered as a voter in such manner as may be prescribed: Provided that no person shall be registered as an elector who— (a) trims or shaves his beard or keshas except in case of sehjdhari; (b) smokes; © takes alcoholic drinks.] Notice how sehajdhari are excluded when comes to hair? http://punjablaws.gov.pk/laws/33.html#_ftnref49

Lets call a spade a spade regarding your comments. What kind of RACIST DISCRIMINATORY comment is that AGAINST SIKHS from someone who claims SIKHI? A crime like this against the backdrop of present western mindframe about Sikhs means that turban and beard is erroneously magnified ten-thousandfold to create a frenzy of hate and disgust for the image, rather than the act or actor. You are well aware that is what people will notice. If a mona killed his wife, the color of the skin would be magnified but far less than the beard and turban. If it was a white man, the race or religion would not come into play. Whether you are capable of expressing those thoughts or not, you do understand them. Yet, a self claimed sikh like you, decides to piggy back on the mainstream racism for the Sikh image! Whaaaa! Self claimed sikh? :wub: Ha. You should read what your fellow brothers and sisters said about monay so you can see where I am coming from with this issue.

Bhangra is big joke now. I can't believe how dirty some bhangra videos are these days. Having half naked girls dancing to bhangra music in their videos is total disrespect to our sisters. I never will support bhangra (and bollywood) until they clean up their act.

Really? Are you sure they're wearing karas? Maybe they're wearing something else that looks like a kara. :wub:

who said that the guy who help plot the murder was a "gursikh"? sounds like youre trying to pull up a debate.. :wub: anyway about this incident... its heartbreaking to hear such a story.. and to add, know that a thing like this was caused by a man with a turban? its just despicable its like some ppl are TRYING to make sikhs looked at with disgust. and in my views, arranged marriages are so scary.. i know a lot of ppl still believe that arranged marriages are good. i believe that they were at one point, but not now.. even sikh men these days abuse women (and children) for no apparent reason.. maybe the reason she wanted a divorce was cuz of him. as someone said before.. looks as if she comes from a religious family.. im sure there were many reasons for her wanting a divorce. (not saying that its a good thing) a lot of men still dont know what it means to be a husband. its not just putting food on the table, or disciplining their kids, or keeping the last name in high spirits.. im disgusted to see a sikh do such a thing. IF she was cheating and wanted to divorce, so be it.. she would be punished.. but for a human to even try to think they can take the roll of punishing someone like that..its surprising. in fact, this is what muslims do... not sikhs. and as for so called "honor" killings... such a thing shouldnt exist anymore.. as i said.. leave the punishment in Gods hands. and i wonder.. where's the husband's and mother in law's honor now? ....what a disgrace What the heck are you talking about? A 70-year-old grandmother and her son have been found guilty of murdering his wife in a so-called "honour killing". The lady and her son are guilty! He is comes from a religious Sikh family. Did you even see the pictures of him and his mother? what you mean what are you talking about? i was talkin abt the article.. what else :..: what are YOU talkin abt I am talking about this incident as well, ma'am!

who said that the guy who help plot the murder was a "gursikh"? sounds like youre trying to pull up a debate.. :wub: anyway about this incident... its heartbreaking to hear such a story.. and to add, know that a thing like this was caused by a man with a turban? its just despicable its like some ppl are TRYING to make sikhs looked at with disgust. and in my views, arranged marriages are so scary.. i know a lot of ppl still believe that arranged marriages are good. i believe that they were at one point, but not now.. even sikh men these days abuse women (and children) for no apparent reason.. maybe the reason she wanted a divorce was cuz of him. as someone said before.. looks as if she comes from a religious family.. im sure there were many reasons for her wanting a divorce. (not saying that its a good thing) a lot of men still dont know what it means to be a husband. its not just putting food on the table, or disciplining their kids, or keeping the last name in high spirits.. im disgusted to see a sikh do such a thing. IF she was cheating and wanted to divorce, so be it.. she would be punished.. but for a human to even try to think they can take the roll of punishing someone like that..its surprising. in fact, this is what muslims do... not sikhs. and as for so called "honor" killings... such a thing shouldnt exist anymore.. as i said.. leave the punishment in Gods hands. and i wonder.. where's the husband's and mother in law's honor now? ....what a disgrace What the heck are you talking about? A 70-year-old grandmother and her son have been found guilty of murdering his wife in a so-called "honour killing". The lady and her son are guilty! He is comes from a religious Sikh family. Did you even see the pictures of him and his mother?

No one has denied this. Why are you always trying to create the divide veer?? there are many gursikhs who respect evryone..be it monay or kesdhari..and there are kesdharis who hate monay. Same applies to the monay too. Not true. I have in the past, discuss this with people, but sadly they disagree with me and said only monay do such things similar to how they said only monay girls convert to Islam while amritdhari women don't, which later on was proved wrong as well.

Hearing about these kinds of incident gets my blood boiling at times. I can’t believe how ignorant some people can be. To all the monay haters out there, I hope you are eating crow right now. This type of behaviour is also performed by so called “gursikh” families as well. This particular incident shows it.