jashb

Only in some parts of U.K I guess.

In rest of the world, Islamic Communities are very well assimilated...specially in United States, Canada, Australia etc.

You, my old friend, are deluded. Go and ask Australians how they feel about Islamic immigration and its impact on the host community. I suspect you'll receive a markedly different answer.

Your view that "Islamic Communities are very well assimilated...specially in United States, Canada" would only be remotely true, if there was such a thing as a homogenous Islamic community to speak of.

However; there ain't one.

There is no homogenous Islamic community.

Non-Punjabi Pakistani muslim immigrants are viewed as a nuisance making community, that sucks on the state, and is highly prevalent in crime, no matter where it goes; be that the UK, Norway, Sweden, Netherlands, or, for that matter, USA and Canada.

The same applies to an extent to Bangladeshi muslim immigrants.

Iranian (or Persian, as some prefer to be known) muslim immigrants, on the other hand, are viewed comparatively favourably.

Most are seen as moderate people, who keep their faith to themselves, as a private, rather than public, matter, which is, quite frankly, the way the whiteys "like it". Iranian, and even Turkish, muslims are far more likely to be viewed as integrated than Indian-origin muslims residing in the same country.

That's just a small example of how muslim immigrants from current countries differ in their own attitudes towards their host countries, and therefore, how, as a result, their host countries view them back.

Besides the fact that Islamic communities are not homogenous.

In fact, non-Indian/Somalian origin muslims even really hate it it when Paks/Bangla/Somalis, who have ben in the same country for shorter, try to piggy-back off "their" success in integrating overseas, and try to claim it as some wider achievement; just because they also happen to be muslims.

Try speaking to some Turkish or Iranian muslims about Pakistanis; see how many positive responses you get.

Even ask the Bangla immigrants about Paks; there is not a muslim of non-Pakistani origin that doesn't have something bad to say about Pakistani immigrants. And with good reason.

If it wasn't for him, the disappearance and murder of over 200,000 young Sikhs would have been buried under the mists of history's mysteries.

waheguru, hope todays youth have the same passion to seek truth through the courts and evidence

From,

a humble, neeva jeha neemaana;

To,

one of the greatest ever protectors of humanity;

PARNAAM.

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On recalling such a fearless warrior, even the heavens are reminded of the immortal folk verses, never more fitting than when recalling Shaheed Bhai Sahib Jaswant Singh Ji Khalra;

QUOM HAMESHA KARDIYE; PARNAAM SHAHEEDAN NU

QUOM HAMESHA KARDIYE; PARNAAM SHAHEEDAN NU

WATAN DEE KHATAR HOYE JO, QURBAAN SHAHEEDAN NU...

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Such is the inferiority complex of the south asian muslims that they will claim that urdu is closer to farsi and turkish than it is to hindi :lol2: It is just a dialect of hindi!

You and I both know that it is far less than "a dialect of hindi"; nay; It is a wholesale bastardised plagiarism of the hindi language, slightly adapted for a particular audience.

If that is what they truly believe; not just what they try to preach to others (taqiyyah); then they truly are more deluded than they will ever know.

the illiterate and shameless Pakistani/Bangladeshi youth of today (descendants of those cowards who were converted and then enslaved) pride themselves on all those conquests, forgetting that it was their own direct ancestors who (being non-Muslims) suffered all that brutality.

I dare these guys to say Mohammad Bin Qassim is their ancestor. In fact, he might as well be! The guy did rape the daughters/sisters of Raja Dahir, didn't he? And they claim him their ancestor proudly?!?!?!

OMG.

This is what happens when an entire race of people are truly enslaved, indoctrinated, and most thoroughly owned; to such an extent, that it's pre-eminent honour is viciously ground to fine dust.

The hopelessly defeated slaves are fighting over their "professed" adherence to their unconcerned master.

Oh dear.

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Its like generalisin on them. Yes. but Part o me duz want to help the bacharas. This wud b a good seva!

I highly doubt that.

But, nevertheless, one wishes you well on your endeavours.

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In regards to lack of help you are getting from the committees and business owners, you must remember one thing: the more mercantile the person, the more anti-sikh they become. Wherever, there are vested business interests the less support we get. Gurdwara Committees are like businesses also.

Ideally, they should be supporting us but they won't, they will only do so if there is money they can make out of it, they are caught up in maya. They will only join if their fingers get burnt or there is an incentive or if they can get a whiff of which way the wind is blowing and then jump on the bandwagon.

Which means that we have to change the paradigm, the question is how?

They will only join if ...... they can get a whiff of which way the wind is blowing and then jump on the bandwagon.

This, precisely, is the answer to the conundrum. ;-)

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So you bend over to give your respects and your tits are haning out.. thats okay?

Benji, your post is quite amusing.

So your 60 year old aunt gets her jugs out in the Gurdwara, - koi sharam nahi?

On one hand you say we should kill the ego and on the other your aunt would beat the crap out of u, what about her ego? why you think people wipe and clear sangats shoes ? clean the toilets?

LMAO!!!!

Yes, truly "PUNJABIYAN DEE SHAAN VAKHRI"! :biggrin2:

We are not fanatical muslims- my grandma shows a whole lot of arm and my aunt wears low cut suits to the gurwarra (she is in her 60's). Id like to see someone tell her to cover up, she'd beat the crap out of u!

But remaining lowest of the low, to live at others feet is.

ROTFL.... LMFAO!!!! :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

This reminds me of a Punjabi Comedy, one of many directed/produced by the legendary Gurchet Chitarkar, who always focuses on dysfunctional families.

This one is FAMILY KHUSREYAN DEE.....!!!! :biggrin2: :biggrin2: :biggrin2:

'innergear', on 05 Nov 2012 - 6:15 PM,

said:

The older women need to get off their fat backsides and man up to what is happening. No guy can say it women on women need to be representin

Spot on. Men should stay out of this issue without a doubt. Why? It will appear as if the men-folk are dictating how women should dress, i.e. an accusation levelled at Muslims about how they keep their women down apparently. It will give further credence to the inaccurate assertion that orthodox Sikhi is male dominated and controlled, with Sikh women have little or no say.

We all know our elder ladies aren't shrinking violets when it comes to speaking up, so they should sort this issue out amongst the ladies.

The girls that dress like when they go to the Gurdwara don't listen to their own mothers.

So why would they want to listen to some next aunty???

Many of these girls are highly rebellious. It's a trait which they have manifested, developed, and practised since childhood. As a result, they regularly got away with murder at home, due to the weakness of their parents.

They aren't about to see the error of their ways anyone soon now.

And they certainly don't appreciate being told what to do by older females.

Ironically, they are more likely to listen to a FIRM MALE. They respect men far more than they respect themselves. In fact, they live and die for men!!!

The parents of many of these girls have given up on them.

The only answer for "proclaimed offenders" like these is to be strict and refuse entry to the Gurdwara for those who cannot muster up the respect to at least dress modestly in front of the Guru.

You need a firm alpha male to lay down the law for these types; they simply don't respect anyone who respects them, because, fair enough, they know themselves that they're too dirty to be worthy of the respect (!!!), and can see straight through such "pleasing" behaviour as a lack of confidence, which they eat up.

Once this becomes a norm, s2appers will think twice before turning up to the Gurdwara dressed like a hoe, because no one wants to have to go back home and get changed.

And, just to make it absolutely clear; if they can't respect Guru Ji; they CAN go straight to the wedding party.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa! Vaheguru Ji Ke Fateh!

Sangat Ji,

Many of you may have noticed or experienced this on a daily basis too - the attitude and comments from Muslim/Pakistani guys walking past you in the street - day or night.

I'm pretty much sick of it (along with the majority no doubt).

It seems to happen everyday.

I've not seen or heard of this, and I thought I'd seen it all.

Where does this happen veerji?

Midlands, I guess?

They're talking our Singhniya and we are watching it happen.

Eh...???

Its true many of the children of people that came to the UK in the 60's and 70's from Indian Punjab and had rejected Sikhism taught their kids to hate Sikhs with Kesh. Many of these parents drank and smoked heavily and had family problems like beating up their wives etc but thought they did not need religion in the West. Teaching their kids about Sikhism was the last thing on their minds, however they did things like worshiping graves and Black magic. It is girls from these families that did not want to get married Sikh boys with Kesh and the boys ridiculed other Sikhs.

I've not come across these people, but I know what I'd like to do if and when I do. ;-)

The Miah fellow is a Bangladeshi.

First girls, then boys. What's next farm yard animals? The RSPCA will need to take action

LOL :biggrin2:

The programme showed muslim youth wear karas, shops selling them should ask for id

SP have said this for years and years.

As well as the need to rethink and reform the way we carry out Nagar Kirtans, as they are a beehive for perverts and groomers.

But their recommendations were ignored then, and I bet they'll continue to be ignored now.

In fact, the most brisk business that any "Sikh" shop does, is in Sikh Kara's. The owner and staff are almost always Kesadhari or Amritdhari, and yet they couldn't care less if a su22a picks up a Sikh Kara for 50p.

It is ridiculous.

Likewise, on the point about Nagar Kirtans; Gurdwara committee members are so out of touch, that they have NO idea what is going on at the back of the Nagar Kirtan; which is basically a free-for-all carnival atmosphere.

I requested a Gurdwara committee member to watch the documentary, specifically the part where the abused girl mentions that her abuser enticed her at a Nagar Kirtan.

The response was "oh, well it could have happened anywhere."

I pointed out the irony of that answer, and also explained how the Nagar Kirtan increased the likelihood of such an event occurring multiple-fold; but only after a "face palm" moment when I questioned the sanity of the said committee member.

Who needs enemies when.... You know the rest.

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good points jashb. Sikh identity must be promoted over all other identities. A Punjab identity is good too but not if it makes our youth into secularists/liberals. In 1947, the Punjabi identity was destroyed when when the majority of Punjabis(Muslims) decided to kill Sikhs and Hindus of Punjab. After 1947 Punjabi identity was further destroyed when Punjabi Hindus out of communal mindset decided to abandon their mother tongue in favour of Hindi.

There is no such thing as "Sher Punjabi" label that Punjabis are so proud of. It should be Sher Sikh. Before the Sikh faith was born, invaders would invade Punjab and Punjabis would do nothing. Punjabi women were taken as slaves and the majority of Punjabis converted to Islam out of fear and this did not move the Anakhi Punjabi one bit. But when Sikh Dharm was born, only the Sikhs began to give a reply to the invaders in the only language they understood and Sikhs were and are a small minority of Punjabis. During the 1700s, when a Punjabi Hindu youth was brave enough he did not join Hindu armies, but rather he converted to Sikhi and joined the Sikh army.

Even the Punjabi language which now has an official status is only because of the agitations and hardwork of Sikhs. Look at Pakistan which is the only country in the world where Punjabis are the majority but Punjabi language has no official status like other regional languages such as Sindhi, Pasthun or Balochi does. In India, the Hindus of Punjab were the strongest opposers of giving Punjabi language an official status. But for Sikhs Punjabi language is something else. In other states too where sikligars reside who are not even Punjabis, but even they try to learn and speak Punjabi, I've met non Punjabi Sikhs in Nander even they know how to speak Punjabi. The new Sikhs in Madhya Pradesh are also trying to learn Punjabi. Sikhs do this not because Punjabi is some religious compulsion but out of love for the Gurus who spoke this language.

True, but we have taken the pursuit of promotion of the Punjabi language to a next level; where it easily overshadows the importance of the promotion and propagation of the distinct Sikh identity.

The fact is that our culture is NOT Panjabi.

It never has been and never will be. Panjabi culture was created by, and belongs to, the majority muslims of Panjaab. Anyone who seriously believes that Sikhs would create a culture that runs totally opposite to the teachings of the Guru's needs their heads tested.

Moreover, we couldn't have created a Panjabi culture even if we wanted to. Since it is widely acknowledged that Sikhs formed less than 15% of the population of greater, undivided Panjaab, even after the great proselytising success of the Singh Sabha movement; how were we supposed to impose our way of life on the 85+% majority???

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The truth is that we HAD our own distinct KHALSA culture;

But we abandoned it very quickly, soon after we came into massive power in Panjaab, some 30+ years after the misl's were formed on a purely KHALSA foundation;

During the late 1700's, when there was a vacuum of power, created by the impotence of the later Mughal administration, and the frequent absence of the de facto rulers, like Ahmed Shah Abdali, from Panjaab.

Why??? I don't know. I guess the temptation to emulate the Mughals in terms of hedonism and excess was too strong, once the misl's could ruler freely, didn't have to go into repeated hiding, and had considerable proceeds from rakhi money.

So we adopted the muslim panjabi culture (which itself is a local adaptation of the indian mughal culture); which consisted of, though not exclusively; wining and dining, multiple women, excessive sharaab consumption, promiscuity, lots of meat, women wearing lots of make up ("shingaar") and jewellery, and generally having a good time.

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[sikh men getting absolutely hammered, or even drinking alcohol at all, and Sikh women getting dolled up in what was, for back then, the equivalent of mini skirts and tight tops of today, was absolutely, totally f'n unheard of in the early 1700's.

The same insanity was considered 'normal' for Sikhs in the early 1800's.

Look how we fell.]

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Then what happened???

What did we gain from this cultural "advancement"/change???

Nothing.

Absolutely nothing.

The result is all plain to see. We gained nothing, but we lost everything.

At the end of the 18th century, we were, in some ways, lucky to have Maharaja Ranjit Singh. For all his many faults, he was still an exceptionally strong and politically astute leader, the kind that comes around only once in a few generations; and this helped to mask all the deficiencies that were slowly creeping into Sikh society during his dictatorial reign. He was strong, clever and ambitious enough to be able to overcome the smaller misl's, and merge the others with his own through diplomacy, and thus chalk out, a large, united, strong, so-called "Sikh" kingdom.

Albeit heavily weakened by the gradual moral slide/degredation of higher Sikh society, the Khalsa Culture was still kept burning, during this period,by a small, but vocal, and distinct, minority of Kattar Singh Soormeh, the likes of, to name a few; Sardar Hari Singh Ji Nalwa, Sardar Sham Singh Ji Attari, and Akali Nihang Baba Phoola Singh Ji. These heroes acted as a magnet force to slow down the inevitable moral slide, that would have happened even faster, had these Kattar Singh's not been in full public view.

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But, after the Maharaja's demise, chaos ensued.

Especially so within the royal household, where none of the Maharaja's elder sons were able to manage the mess, partly because that's where the hypocrisy and duality, with regards a reinforced "Punjabi" identity, as opposed to a purely Sikh one, started from; where the rot stated.

Children are impacted by adults' changes in behaviour far more than we adults think; the secularism, opulism, hedonism and excess, so adopted by the Maharaja, that is totally alien to Khalsa Culture, had clearly rubbed off on his sons.

Blame the Dogra's or not (in fact; they wouldn't have even been in a remote position of power had secularism not crept into upper Sikh society); the fact is that we weren't strong enough, to retain the empire, in the mid 1800's, even with far better weaponry and far more manpower;

Than we were, to build the empire, in the mid 1700's, with far simpler weaponry and much smaller forces, when we possessed PURE KHALSA CULTURE.

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The rise and fall of Sikh power is directly related to our change in attitudes toward Sikhi, and our resultant abandon of our indigenous Khalsa Culture, given to us by Dasmesh Pita, in favour of the adoption of the foreign ("malechh") muslim "Punjabi" culture.

We make so many excuses for it these days, and try to blame it all exclusively on the Dogra's.

But the fact remains that we wouldn't even have had non-Sikhs (which they originally were) in the Khalsa Raj in. the first place if we had stuck with our own Khalsa Culture, rather than adopting a horrible self-hating brand of secularism, which turned out to be the equivalent of shooting ourselves in the foot.

It's as if Dasven Patshah is giving us a clear and unambiguous lesson.

The question is, Sikhs; are we going to take it?

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Dasven Patshah took a valuable stone (diamond), and threw it into the river.

They asked a Singh, why did that diamond sink?

The Singh answered, because it's heavier than the water, that's why the diamond sank.

They asked another Singh, why did that diamond sink?

The other Singh said, because it went into the water with force, that's why the diamond sank.

Then, Dasmesh Pita asked Bhai Daya Singh (pehle pyare). Why did that diamond sink?

Bhai Daya Singh answered

"Dasven Patshah, I don't know why that diamond sank.

All I know, is just one thing.

That;

Whoever, and Whatever, that left the sanctuary of YOUR Protection, Pita Jee;

SANK TODAY, AND WILL REMAIN SUNK FOR EVER MORE!"

DHAN DHAN DASMESH PITA - PUTRA DA DAANI !!!!!

:)