bally712

that horse is on the same level as the shelves where all those books on grammar, spelling and prose reside.....your missive's are all in text speak, like some street hood in west london, why do you do that? Youve been educated, you must surely be able to spell? Put your point across in english. my reply wasnt a challenge and not emanating from some self perceived higher standing. But surely if one wants to put their views across on a religious forum – whatever that be – it should be based on some kind of education? Otherwise whats point? If it has no gravitas its a pointless view, based on a knowledge base of zero. And Im not having a go at you, listen theres bare people out there that spout nonsense on forums because – well – because they can. Why should I give any time to consider your views? Your job (and mine) Is surely to put up a compelling argument, get people who read this great forum thinking, cause some kind of combustion in those cells in their heads to make them think, consider, reason – otherwise whats the point? ps. u talk about khalistanis changing your views? Good, im glad,. But then havent you wanted to get the other side to the story, If only for balance? What about Babbar Khalsa? You read about them? their aims? If not, why not? Why is their philosophy distinctly different to Khalistanis or any other sikh organisation come to that? Had you seen their reps that day you met the khalisatnis would you be a fully paid up member of the BK now? I can only assume yes. Listen, to be honest, I only used to come to this forum to read the views of the members originally and im gonna revert back to that status because I cant get into discussions with people that havent a broad view of subjects – its a futile exercise. Anyway, chardia kala my veera, all the best

hey listen rebel, if youre in your mid 20s that means i am less than a decade older than you are. and its not me "crying" as you put it, frankly man i dont really gove a stuff whether people have prejudices or strident views as long as they are based on some kind of knowledge, education and awareness of history: the world didnt begin on the day me, you or anybody else was born. You mention aarti of the GGS (which by the way i dont agree with and i have only ever seen once in a gurdwara) like some chamar/ravidassia exclusive practise when theres documented evidence that the jatt used to do it after consulting their personal bahman soothsayer back in the day until it was considered a faux pax, though its still done nowadays in punjab when people have 'pahht' at their jatherih - fact. fair enough you say you didnt know who ravidass was, but what about kabir?what about dhanna? what about namdev et al? i wasnt around when they were walking on this earth but i still tried - and still am trying - to learn our history. age aint no excuse. read, educate, question, summarise and THEN propogate. Anyway this has gone well off topic but i hope the sentiment still resonates, chardia kala

'Sardar' RebelSingh...i see you are a fellow Lutonian? i must say your knowledge of gurdwara (and associated histories) in Luton is razor sharp......! Back in the day there was no gurdwara and maharaj di bir was brought to the old beech hill school every sunday, then money was raised by EVERY caste (esp members of the (democratic Indian Workers Association) and a gurdwara was purchased on the Portland Road. In the early 80s with more and more punjabis being resident of Luton the old prejudices came through - not from the old timers i stress - but more from the newly arrived and then the Chamars (or hindus as you quaintly put them) bought a place of worship in 1984. Lets bring it back to the present day, i go to both gurdwara and i'll tell you something, apart from the fojjees very few english born youth go to both gurdwaras - its a common theme. But to disparage the Ravidass gurdwara in Luton is plain wrong. There are many old time (paihleeah - as they say in punjabi) families that attend there and when its a main occasion it gets full up, just like any other gurdwara out of the main hubs of southall, slough, brum, leicester and wolves. itd be good to have a face to face conversation with you bcos youre the new generation - and the future of sikhi - and itd be good to get like minds together; just a suggestion, Chardia Kala

caste? substitute the word for trade and then it takes on different connotations; the farming family, the carpenter family, the leather goods family etc etc, these things dont go and wont soon either BUT with education we should realise that there is no 'higher' trade, just trades and if we still judge other or ourselves on what our forefathers were well then thats just ignorance. get over the whole status thing and then we can have equality in the truest sense. The english have surnames that reflect their families trades from a century ago - Cooper (barrel maker), Tanner (leather goods) ad infinitum - but it dont mean they think any less of each other. i'll leave you with this - not an original thought by the way, i musta heard this told to me but its stayed with me - when the muslin goes to hajj he sees men of different colours, backgrounds, statures and trades but they all pray as one. Us? we just go and create seperate gurdwaras and fragment our community further and further. Sad but true

SSA Aren't you guys missing the point here? "Caste based" gurdwaras have predominately come about due to restrictions on the right to worship/right to be on the committee/right to have a voice in “higher caste” dominated gurdwaras; isnt the edict thats been given saying that those “higher caste” gurdwaras should be changing their policies rather than starting saying that Ravidass, Ramgharia, Batra etc gurdwaras should be the ones changing? Just like when FTSE 100 companies want to change their culture they make a concerted effort to change the mindset of their senior mgt team first and allow time for the changes to permeate throughout the rest of the organisation, surely then in this case the changes to the culture at the top of the pyramid first,and more crucially being seen to being adopted and then all will follow?