SSD

Then that's great because the couple will both be Sikhs and give each other sangat and support, it's not an ideal world anyway so I would expect that the in-laws views would be put on the backburner by the couple. Happened in my situation

Are your in-laws non-Sikhs? Not judging you if they are or aren't, I just don't understand this particular Hukam, even if they're born into a Sikh familiy are they Sikh? No, a Sikh is by practice not by words or blood.

Generally I have seen sikh males prefer to marry within the sikhi.. ..The reason is They carry the sikh identity..and they don't want to lose it.

I'm not sure you've seen a lot of matrimonials, where it says clean-shaven please(so called "Sikh" matrimonials) even within this website, I've seen people say that they would prefer non-Sikh at birth women. Sikh men are also to blame for their preferences in a woman who waxed(which by itself creates discrimination towards Gursikh women).

Hypocrisy doesn't promote Religion.

Nowdays there is a big difference in what people preach & practice.

Nobody will follow, unless you lead by example.

that explains Christianity and Islam, but fails to realize Sikhi, because Sikhi is about practice(which is why we have a nitnem).

There is also the tired statement quality not quantity. What this has led to is that Sikhs have not told anybody about their religion and numbers have reduced in real terms. This has led to parents not telling their kids about Sikhi and losing them. Also during the Singh Sabha and Akali Lehar in the 1900-40 the Sikh numbers increased when active parchar. Under Indian rule Sikhs have declined as the Govt sees Sikhs as a threat and have contained them. Parcher is slowly starting again , let's hope it works.

the things about parchars(not Jugraj Singh) is that they only really preach to the people who have already known about Sikhi, such as family, friends, or they saw some sant and want to be like them, but for average society, they have no idea what it is? You can only be interested in something if you know it exists. "Sikhi is the best kept secret in the world", everyone can apply Sikh ideologies to their lives such as Naam Jappo, Kirat Karao, and Vand Ki Chacko. But not everyone will become a Sikh because it probably isn't for them(Maryada and Amrit), but certainly everyone should be living a lifestyle of Naam Japna as it can change someone.

Traditionally when a woman married she took on the traditions and beliefs of the family she married into. This is why to maintain Sikhi and to keep the faith alive and pass it through future generations a female Sikh should marry only a Sikh male. It is difficult in an extended family where the woman will live with her husband's parents as well as her husband;s brothers and sisters for a number of years for her to keep her faith distinct if they all follow another faith. The family will also probably have rituals which they follow which are not in line with Sikhi such as idol worship etc. Being married into the family will entail her having to take part in their rituals.

On the other hand a Sikh man who comes from a strong Gursikh family would not be under the same pressure because if he marries a non-Sikh female then traditionally the girl would be integrated into the Sikh religion and the rites she would be taking part in would be the same as her Sikh husband.

Obviously the above is not 100% given today's nuclear families and married couples leaving their parents home after marriage but the Hukum needs to understood according to the time when it was given.

what if the husband agrees to accept Sikhi, but the in-laws do not?

You sadly can't combat it, it's a trust issue with the Sikhs, their family were probably drunkards, abusers, or they just have in-fighting. The Sikhs are a highly respected group in any society, even in some racist areas. I've seen people say,"The Sikhs are the only non-Westerners I respect" or "I wish Sikhs ruled instead of the Jews", or "If I could believe in God, I would be a Sikh", we are respected by the societies we come from; however, the families of the individual aren't very respected. Let us take 3HO for example, they are trying to follow Sikhi with their little yoga(if we excommunicate with them based on this, we should excommunicate all the Nihangs for Bhang consumption). We argue on stuff we already know the answer to. Such as Raagmala, chairs, and meat. Did Bhai Fauja Singh argue on Raagmala when he and some Taksalis went to give Shaheedi? Why is this an issue now? Did the Nihangs who gave Shaheedi argue on meat? More importantly did the Babbar Khalsa argue on whether you believed Amrit was about Mukti or Naam? We've started thinking on non-issues.

just so you know, these non-issues only became an issue when Indria Gandhi had the plan to destroy Sikhi, the Indian government put these issues in place, even when the Akal Takht Maryada already is very clear and optional on most of these issues.

I found out about this particular Hukam from Jugraj Singh's video http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd1oXui2ctQ from 9 min to 11 mins.

sorry ill edit it out

thank you for changing it.

our history of martyrs have shown the path of truth and justice. We have so much pride in history (not self-pride) but in what our Gurus and Shaheeds did for us that if we Sikhs see our own leaving due to money tactics or comfort let them leave. Every year the Khalsa grows and grows and Kalyug gets deeper and deeper. Christianity is just a label now to be honest they have lost complete control. Muslims on the other hand don't challenge the status quo unlike Sikhs. Let alone Sikhs aren't afraid of dying for the truth. We have a whole bloody path of shaheeds to show that.

Please use a more respectable adjective than bloody, the Gurus have given so much to create one Panth and one Khalsa:Punj Pyare.

Well its been quite a while now since the issue has been in the public eye. With all the news stories of Sikh Girls and Boys leaving the faith.

I was wondering now after all the awareness campaigns and education that has been given out ie via social media and websites.

Has it made a difference are we seeing less Sikhs leave the faith?? Im not just talking about those who convert to other religions but Sikhs who have basically become agnostic and don't believe in any religion which seems to be the trend of modern society.

If so how to combat this?

How I see it is we have a big problem of vulnerable families that are so broken. outsiders can easily take advantage of the kids. ie the parents are so busy fighting each other. that the kids are rebelling and getting up to all sorts.

the way I see it there are many families that have a nuclear family structure. And if there are no strong leaders in the household. The family will eventually crumble. this will lead to the kids leaving the faith also.

You sadly can't combat it, it's a trust issue with the Sikhs, their family were probably drunkards, abusers, or they just have in-fighting. The Sikhs are a highly respected group in any society, even in some racist areas. I've seen people say,"The Sikhs are the only non-Westerners I respect" or "I wish Sikhs ruled instead of the Jews", or "If I could believe in God, I would be a Sikh", we are respected by the societies we come from; however, the families of the individual aren't very respected. Let us take 3HO for example, they are trying to follow Sikhi with their little yoga(if we excommunicate with them based on this, we should excommunicate all the Nihangs for Bhang consumption). We argue on stuff we already know the answer to. Such as Raagmala, chairs, and meat. Did Bhai Fauja Singh argue on Raagmala when he and some Taksalis went to give Shaheedi? Why is this an issue now? Did the Nihangs who gave Shaheedi argue on meat? More importantly did the Babbar Khalsa argue on whether you believed Amrit was about Mukti or Naam? We've started thinking on non-issues.

"Do not given a daughter's hand to a clean shaven. Give her hand in a house where God's Sikhi exists, where the household is not in debt, is of a good nature, is disciplined and knowledgeable." Hukam 38 of 52. It is true that Nihangs did intermarry with Muslim and Hindu women during their Chackarvarti(not sure if its still true). I also think that we have to ackwoledge that men and women despite being equal are just not the same. I really wanted to know these points because it (Hukam) says daughter and not son. Please someone explain it to me(only after reading the Hukam) and tell me if it has 2 sides.

"Do not given a daughter's hand to a clean shaven. Give her hand in a house where God's Sikhi exists, where the household is not in debt, is of a good nature, is disciplined and knowledgeable." Hukam 38 of 52. It is true that Nihangs did intermarry with Muslim and Hindu women during their Chackarvarti(not sure if its still true). I also think that we have to ackwoledge that men and women despite being equal are just not the same. I really wanted to know these points because it (Hukam) says daughter and not son. Please someone explain it to me(only after reading the Hukam) and tell me if it has 2 sides.

Missionaries have one job and that is to convert using tactics food or money and say that turn your life for example Christ. Look at Christian missionaries around the world even in Punjab. They use dirty tactics like money to bribe people in their faith and even tell them keep the pagh and dhari and be a Christian. All missionaries use their own religion to comfort the needy but don't lead them to becoming one with the Divine since all religions beside Sikhi have a rough path on doing that. We are lucky to have the GGS but we should be more worried about quality than quantity as remember what Guru Gobind Singh said 1 Sikh=125,000 not because of physical strength but because because of our faith in the True Guru SGGS.

I understand quality not quantify, but if no one is willing to die for Sikhi, it's just a religion people can step-on. Like Christianity is way too easy to step-on, as is Islam because they both would be too afraid of "shaheedi" while the Sikhs aren't going to let the Guru be insulted and become SHAHEEDS!

The guy who called is Kamal Verma

AMRITSAR: Police have traced the threat call made to Golden Temple manager to an unemployed youth, who used a stolen SIM card registered in the name of a woman from Uttar Pradesh.

Police told TOI that the SIM card owner told cops that she had given the mobile for repair. The shop owner gave the SIM card to one of his relatives in Delhi who used the mobile phone to make the call to the manager of Golden Temple.

It is learnt that the police are bringing the relatives of the person who made the call to Amritsar for further investigation.

A person had made a threat call to the manager of Golden Temple asking for cash last week. Following the threat call, police had strengthened security for Golden Temple and also carried out search operation of hotels and sarais situated in the vicinity of Golden Temple.

Amritsar police commissioner J S Aulakh said cops were carrying out investigation, primarily it appears to be the work of some antisocial element.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/City/Chandigarh/Threat-call-to-Golden-Temple-manager-by-jobless-youth-Police/articleshow/42851348.cms

? You trust the Police!? I'm not sure you remember 1984, it was the police killing Sikhs?

No one with the exception of the Jews faced the kind of persecution the Sikhs faced which would explain why we are both in small numbers. Had Sikhs not faced any persecution since the period of the Gurus, then very likely Sikhi would have spread all over Asia. Islam and Christianity faced very minor persecutions until they managed to spread(usually by force), nothing compared to what the Sikhs had to face who were literally struggling for their very survival. At one point during the 1700s, there was just a few thousand Sikhs left! Still Sikhs managed to come out on top and become rulers of Punjab.

I still do have to say that it's very impressive for a group that's been persecuted often. The Mughals did believe that Sikhi was gone for a while and went back their own little thing. Bertrand Russell(An atheist) said "If some lucky men survive the onslaught of the third world war of atomic and hydrogen bombs, the SIKH religion will be the ONLY means of guiding them.

It has the capability, but Sikhs have not brought-out, in broad day light, the splendid doctrines of their religion, which has come into existence for

the benefit of entire mankind." This is the guy that disproved the Abrahimic religions and even destroyed Hinduism and Bhudhism. He said that it was great for all of mankind. ALL

The growth of our young faith was stunted by the severe persecution we faced at the hands of Muslims. Read Tauzke Jahangiri in which Jahangir himself says he did the Shaheedi of Guru Arjun Dev Jee because many Hindus and Muslims were becoming His followers. Sheikh Ahmad Sihindi who is considered a Mujadid Alf e Thani(reviver of Islam of the second millennium) by the Muslims was alarmed at seeing the growth of Sikhi as he has written in his Maktubat or collection of letters. He then conspired to have Guru Arjun Dev Jee become Shaheed through Jahangir.

After Guru Gobind Singh Jee, Sikhs faced genocide after genocide. It was literally a crime to be a Sikh back in those days. Any Sikh who was caught alive was killed immediately through beheading and his head was presented to the Mughal and later the Afghan authorities for reward money. So when Sikhs managed to finally become masters of Punjab despite this horrible persecution, Sikhs were no more than 5% of the entire Punjabi population. During Maharaja Ranjit Singh's era, Sikh faith began to spread, but still Sikhs were a minority within the Sikh state itself because Sikh rulers no longer actively spread Sikhi among the masses as they should have. If they did do parchar then at the very least central Punjab would have become a Sikh majority area.

After Punjab was conquered by the British, again Sikhi began to decline because the newly converted Sikhs who had converted during Sikh Raaj began reverting to their old faiths. During Singh Sabha movement, Sikhi again began to spread all over Punjab and had Singh Sabha movement not faced the stiff opposition from the Arya Samaj movement in Punjab at the time, it is very likely that all Punjabi Hindus would have gravitated towards Sikhi.

Punjab isn't even as big as the Christian or Muslim expansion though, didn't Guru Nanak go 87,000 miles on foot. If the Khalsa is ever going to fully Raj they need the whole world because Agai Rayi Na Koi. We can't have some enemies..

The reason I am asking this is because in that much time for other religions they got so much done. Christianity got Europe; Islam in 500 years got Arabia. Bhudhism in 500 years was very well spread out into southeastern Asia and Japan. So if these religions got so much in 500 years, why have we failed as followers of the highest Guru to even get outside of Punjab? Our Gurus aren't lower than these are other men!

Why are people surprised this happens?

Saw this video. Not sure if it gurbani or not. Its seems like its just raag with some stuff added to it but then again I'm not sure if its a single line of gurbani being repeated over again. I don't believe it is because at the beginning of the video bibi ji says that this mantra was used by yogi's.

Can anyone shed some light?

most likely it's a cultic mantra, very similar to Radha Soami special 5 mantras.

I would personally rather die than to see Sri Darbar Sahib destroyed. And to go into the 8.4 million lives than to see it just gone.

Missionaries have exploited the world. They don't really care if they love the religion, they just will refuse to give you food if you don't convert.

Yhats Sikh can go... What is the problem with going to this airport?

he could be asking about kirpans?

The Baba Farid Jee whose Bani is in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the one who was Gadhi Nasheen or custodian of the seat of the 12th century Baba Farid the Afghan. His name was Sheikh Ibrahim or Sheikh Brahm. Since he was the spiritual heir to the sufi order of Baba Farid of 12th century, he also used "Farid" as his Takhalus

if you read the first paragraph it says,"Baba Farid, as he is commonly known, is heavily quoted in Sikh scriptures, giving him a unique place of honour within Sikhism" it also says he was born in Punjab, not Afghanistan. https://www.google.com/search?q=sheikh+farid&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari this was my exact google search, it is possible he did meet Guru Nanak, but that would most likely be his Nirgun form (Waheguru or to him, Allah)

Also we should remember that Guru Gobind Singh Ji said that the Guru had 3 forms when speaking to Bhai NAND Lal:Nirgun, Sargun, and Gurshabad.

Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee is Gurmat. There is no Gurmat without Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee.

Before the Bhagats came to Gurmat, Bhagat Ramanand Jee was the Guru of most of the Bhagats. The transformation happened because they all came to the Sharan of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji. This is supported by the pre Singh Sabha era literature of the Sikhs.

what about Bhagat Farid? He came in the 12th century, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fariduddin_Ganjshakar

For me its about choice and ethics. I became veggie after a 'eureka' moment on a survival course. I could catch, skin, gut and eat animals for food and/or live off vegetation. I couldn't actually come to killing a sentient animal just so that I could eat, when there was a choice, I made a decision to live off the vegetation (of course if there was no vegetation then I would have to face that question).

When I got back to civilisation, meat just seemed unnecessary in a world of plenty.

Besides the sikhi aspect of eating animals, I think the 'you are what you eat' argument is important. Would Guru Ji approve of the way animals are treated so that we can get our food today? This relates to both meat and things like milk. If you look at the way farming works today most people would question what they ate.

The worst example I've seen is in the Panjab, with milk from the local village producer. I had a look around and they were injecting drug after drug into their livestock, there was no method to it, they just thought more medicine/drugs = better yields/livestock. Of course all this junk ends up where? in the milk we had delivered and drank.

Today it shouldn't just be about 'what' you eat but 'where' it came from and 'how' it was produced.

Guru Har Rai cried when he killed a flower, so we should ackwoledge we will kill little creatures but we should have Daya and not be massive on purposely doing something wrong.