Gupt daasan daas

yes rsingh i can read gurmukhee

and if u wish to ask me questions u kno my msn

add me

cause this thread is gettin old and tired

same with u khalsa fauj

andyone wants to teach me somethin, my msn is gven

bhula chuka maf

rsingh, if i did use taksal as one of my main arguemts, then thas a huge mistake on my part, and please show me and i apoligise if it did

and btw, i was posting articles from panthkhalsa

no neccesarily i agree with everythin

but it had some good points

which real taksali, which i dunt y doesnt use his real name, condisering its obvious who he is, shud answer every banee thuk given from akj org and the other articles

y do u keep on attakiing taksal with lies, y dont u just answer the banee thuks?

and r sisingh je, ya ure names randeep, my name simranjot singh

happy?

and we also got another singh on this jfreind, who i dunt kno y doesnt use his real id

and please dont give me crap about needing meat to be strong

i kno many strong singhs, prob stronger than a lot of meat eaters

these singhs workout and everything

so thas a pure lie u need meat

btw, i REALLY wanna leave this thread, but everytime i wanna u talk more crap

and if u wanna see me readin gurbanee, come down to gurughar and well do bhagthee together

u can help get my avastha up since ure a such a sant

u kno how to contact me

anytime singh sahib

btw, the bad thing about meat is mostly eating it

consuming it

its hard for the mind to remian sucha, pure

and ue vices r stirred up

and bhaagt kabeer je clearly says whoever eats meat will go to hell

and we have daal and rotee, y do we need to eat meat?

there are many thuks given

no one on this thread has been able to prove an of them to not be agasint meat

now if u wanna, then go ahead

but y do u first discuss jo rath peevhi maansa, then change it and go to meat, then start attcking taksal

i dunt see where u gettin these connections from

ive said on this thread before, halaal is kureight

but even chatka shud be avoided because to keep ure mind pure, u shddunt consume meat, even banee says this

just read this thread

many banee thuks have been given

if u still wish to eat meat ok

thas ure choice

but my final answer is, look at banee thuks, look at hukamnamai, u stil dont belive then wat can anyoone do

us till gonna make escuses then wat u gonna do

if u will never belive, do sehaj paats and take hukamnama

and guru je will tell u wat he wants u to do

bhula chuka maf

Some of the meat consumers try to justify their act through the hunting incidents by Guru Ji. They get false impression that if Guru Ji used to hunt animals, probably they used to eat their meat too. But various sikh scriptures witness that guru ji used not to hunt for eating. We read in many verses written by Guru Ji themselves, Bhagats in Guru Granth Sahib Ji which strictly and clearly instruct the sikhs against killing animals and eating their meat. It also does not fit with philosophy of "having mercy on creatures of God" and "Sarbat da Bhalla". Guruji clearly says mercy is mother of religion and without mercy the spirtual light can not be ignighted within anyone.

"Dhaul Dharam Daiya ka poot" in Japu ji Sahib.

and

"Nirdaiya nahi joti ujala" in Ramkali M. 1 page 906.

From the details given by Guru ji themselves about some of hunting incidents, it becomes very clear that the hunting used to be done to free their former followers or Bhagats from the cycle of death and birth as animals. Let us have a closer look on some of the huntings done by Guru Jis:

1. The hunting of a wild pig in Wadali (Amritsar) by Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji Maharaj:

The incident has been described in "Tareekh Guru Khalsa at pages 488 - 489). One landlord (farmer) came to Guru ji and reported that there was one very dangerous wild pig in his sugarcane field. Since last few months this was a burdon to people of this area, it detroyed their crops regularly. Many people tried to kill it but failed. Guru ji along with Panda Khan, Bidi Chand and Bhalan went for hunting this pig and killed it. Farmers were very pleased at this. At the time of his death this pig's soul started singing praises of Guru Ji. On being asked by Bhai Bidi Chand, the soul replied:

" I used to be sikh of Guru Arjun Dev ji and used to live in Beerh Baba Budha Sahib ji (near jhabal in Amritsar; now there is beutiful Gurudwara built there, the sewa of this Gurudwara was undertaken by Baba Kharak Singh Ji, a well revered sikh octogenarian saint) to serve Baba Budha Ji. When Mata Ji (wife of Guru Arjun Dev Ji) went in horse baggi to Baba Budha ji with a wish of son, Baba ji said "Guru ke mahala noo kidron bhaajarh pai hai". I did not like this comment of Baba Budha Ji, I got upset with Baba ji and passed some hot remarks to Baba Budha Ji. He said, "Soor vangu ghur-ghur karda firda hai, soor hoinga". Means you are groaning like a pig, and will become pig. Then I was scared and held the feet of Baba ji, and cried for being freed from pig "Juni". Then he blessed me, "The great son from the same Mata Ganga will free you from pig's body and will grant you Mukti (from cycle of birth and death)."

According to the above account GuruJi killed the above pig to grant Mukati to the former sikh of Guru-Ghar and he did it according to promise given by Baba Budha Sahib Ji. This hunting was by no means to eat pig's meat. It may be added here that Baba Budha Ji was honoured with service to Six Guruji,s and was loved very much by all of them. It was according to recognition of his spirtual level, that sixth Guruji sent Mata Ganga Ji to him for fulfulling her wish of a son -- Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji.

2. Hunting of a lion in Dhaulpur (Rajasthan) by Sri Guru Hargobind Singh Ji:

History tells that Guru ji had to stay overnight in Dhoulpur on his way to Gwalier along with King Jahangir. The residents of Dhoulpur complained to King Jahagir about a dangerous lion living in a forest near Dhaulpur. They requested that they may be freed from a constant danger from this lion by killing the lion.

Jahangir prepared his men for this hunting and took Guru Ji with him. Inspite of all efforts by King's persons the lion some how progressed near to king himself, then king asked for help to Guru Ji. Guru ji without any delay came ahead to combat the lion, and asked the lion, "Kal yamun! I give first chance to you to attack on me, use your full strength so that you don't repent it later on". The lion attacked first and Guru ji saved himself and then attacked with his sword and killed the lion.

Later the King and others asked Guru ji about the lion being called as "kal yamun" by him. Then Guru ji answered, " I know him from many "Yugas" and he was waiting for me here since long time. In "Doapar Yuga" when Krishna Ji killed Kans, and then defeated Jarasand for seventeen times. Eiteenth time Kal Yamun abbetted Jarasand against Krishna Ji. Krishna Ji then had to leave Mathura and take shelter in the cave of Rishi Manchkund. When Krishna Ji reached the cave of this rishi, he was asleep. Rishi Manchkunda had a blessing that just by looking at someone, he could burn him. Krishan ji put his safron coloured cloth on the Rishi and hid himself in the cave. Manchkunda followed Krishna ji to the cave, and thinking that the person under the cloth was Krishna ji, he woke up Manchkunda rishi. When manchkunda looked at him, the Kal yamun got burnt to death. Manchkunda repented at this death and asked the way to be freed from the sin which he earned by killing Kal Yamun. Krishna ji arranged a great "Yagia" (it was a religious act in Doapar) by building 68 "Kunda,s". Upon being requested by Manchkunda rishi that Kal Yamun might also be granted "Mukti", Krishna ji said, " I will grant him Mukti in Kalyuga".

So according to the promise given by Krishna ji in Doyapar Yuga, Guru Hargobind Singh Ji granted Mukti to Kal Yamun.

At present there is a Gurudwara at the place where Guru Ji had hunted the lion in Dhaulpur. This hunting was done near to hindu temple of Manchkunda. This place is situated about 3 km west to Dhoulpur city and Gurudwara's name is "Gurudwara shri Sher Shikaar Sahib". Many of the Krishna's follower in Rajasthan (India) regularly arrage fairs at this Gurudwara and sing praises of Guru ji, they consider him reincarcenation of Krishna ji.

3. Shri Guru Hari Rai Sahib Ji -- a strange hunter

At page 594 of Tareekh Khalsa it is mentioned that Shri Guru Hari Rai Ji was very compassionate and mercyful at heart. He used to do hunting but he had issued special instructions to his men about not killing any animal. He used to catch the old, week and sick animals. He had kept hundreds of such wild animals, the proper care as far as their treatment and food was concerned used to be undertaken, and then the animals used to be left free in forest after some time. This is also supported by Mahima Prakash (Sakhi 167; pages 545-546, vol. 2), as it is written there:

"Pun Daiyal Shikaar chad aave, sikh surbir sang gur dhave, ban pasu pankhi khed bas kare, kou na maare, jeewat maare, grahe mo rakh palana hoi, khan pan dukh tine na koi, bhaye ikatra kaii lakh hazaar, pasu pankhi bagh bilian siar."

The writer of Mahima Prakash is of opinion that whenever Guru ji killed some animal it was for relieving animals from extreme pains or for spirtual freedom of the animals considering their good deed during previous births.

"Jab kabhu Shikar kash mare, mano mukat karta ko mare"

Once Guru ji saw a rattle snake who was in extreme pain and in old age. He was being eaten by ants and was shaking his head and tail with pain -- as if he was requesting Guru ji for help. Guru ji killed this snake with arrow and relieved him from pains as well as cycle of death and birth (Mahima prakash, vol. 2 page 563).

4. Shri Guru Gobind Singh Ji hunted a rabbit near Nandedh (presently known as Shri Hazoor Sahib Ji):

Once a rabbit was running across a field near to the place where Guru ji was sitting. Guru ji killed the rabbit with an arrow. The rabbit finally fell and died at the place, where now Gurudwara Shikaar Ghaat has been built.

On being asked by sikhs, Guruji revealed the details. Guru ji said the rabbit used to be Moola Khatari during time of Guru Nanak Dev ji. Guru ji once went to his house to meet him. Moola hid himself in his house and told his wife to tell lie to Guru ji that Moola was not at home. As Moola's wife told the lie to Guru ji, Guru ji (knowing the truth) said a salok:

"nal kirada dosati koorhe koorhi pai,

Maran na jape moolia, aave kite thai."

(salok M. 1, page 1412 in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji)

After this Guru ji left his home, Moola got bitten by a snake and died. People put Moola's body on a cot and brought to Guru Nanak Dev ji, and requested to forgive him. Then Guru ji said he will have to enter diffrent "Juni,s" due to his acts, but I will grant him "Mukati" in my 10th swaroop in Kalyuga.

Mahima Prakash and most of other sakhis give detail about the above hunting of the rabbit by Guru ji. None of them says that Guru ji ate this rabbit's meat after killing him. It is mentioned in all of these that Guru ji killed this rabbit to free Moola as per Guru ji's promise and grant him "Mukati".

We also have many other sakhis about of Guru Gobind Singh ji like --

(A.) Mukati of a bear who used to distributor of Prashad in Guru Arjun Dev Ji's darbar.

(B.) Hunting of a "Ghoghar" who used to be king. He became ghogar due to curse of a <admin-profanity filter activated> girl to whom he had raped.

(C.) Hunting of a Crow, who used to be sewadar in Langar of Guru Gobind Singh ji and used to remain upset and irritated all the time with sangat while doing sewa. Due to curse of a sikh of Guru ji he had to become crow.

(D.) Hunting of a Quail (I think "Tittar" in punjabi) who used to be a farmer. The farmer had taken loan while swearing by the name of Guru ji that he would return the loan to other person. He did not fulfill his promise. So guru ji caught him, removed his wings and left before a falcon (this falcon was a trader who had given loan to the farmer) to balance the account of that birth, and fulfilling his duty as witness (because the farmer had sworn by the name of Guru ji while getting loan).

(E.) Removing a doubt of Pandit keshav Dutt at Naina Devi Mountain:

Guru ji went on hunting and killed many animals. Guru ji brought and put all these dead animals near to "Havan Kund". Pandit Keshav Dutt was surprised at this act and objected to it. As Pandit Keshav Dutt questioned Guru ji about killing all those innocent animals, Guru ji revived all those animals and let them walk in diffrent directions back to jungle. Then Guru ji explained to Pandit Keshav Dutt that he searched for these souls (animals) to whom he wanted to grant "Mukti" (which is attainable with Jap-tap otherwise). Now he would have to find them again, because they have missed one great chance of salvation (Mukti) due to Pandit Keshav's objection. Pandit Keshav understood the real motive, and asked to be forgiven for his ignorance.

As is mentioned in Gurubani, "satguru sikh ko ji naal saware, satguru sikh ka halat palat saware" (sukhmani sahib ji). Means Guru Ji always helps his sikh for betterment of his both worlds -- this world (Halat) and next world (Parlok or Palat). Even when sikh enters diffrent "junis" (of lower animals) due to his misdeeds, Guru Ji has mercy on him. He finds him in that "juni" and grants him a stage which otherwise is attained by rishis after spending centuries of meditation and innumerable other religious acts.

It is not justice with our Great Guru ji,s to say that they killed animals to eat their meat. When someone says Guruji ate meat, he commits a sin of blaming guru ji of "Avar updese aap na kare". Because Guru ji in their bani have prohibited clearly the eating of meat. They never allowed meat in their Langars. We can find some historical Gurudwaras with their own dairy farms and agricultural land attached to them because wheat, rice, vegetables and milk products used to be produced in them for being used in Langar. None of Gurudwara has Goat farm or poultry farm attached to it !! If Guru ji used to eat meat they would have raised these animals too.

TO SUMMARISE AND UNDERSTAND THE BASIC CONCEPT BEHIND HUNTINGS:

To understand correctly, why guru ji used to hunt, we can equate (to some extent) Guru ji to a judge in worldly courts. A Judge gives death sentence to some person after looking at all his past records. Death penalty by a judge does not mean that anyone can kill to a person without being aware of anything about his or her past. The Guru ji knew about "Yugas" of previous births of a soul, as is very evident from above sakhis. The Guru Granth Sahib ji witnesses about Guru Ji's such vision over past, present and future -- called in Bani as "Pardrishti". On the basis of that vision The Guru ji's used to grant "Mukti" to diffrent animals. It was not for the purpose of eating their meat.

It is written in Dasam Granth too about the huntings. But no where it says it was for eating their meat. Neither these huntings should be considered mercyless acts, because in fact Guru ji used to grant them Mukati out of mercy towards them, sometimes even ignoring their misdeeds. Moreover Guru ji is bestower of life and death and Mukati, he could kill and then revive .... do we fit in this category ?????

bhula chuka maf

In hukumnamas collected by Dr. Ganda Singh jee and published in his book "hukumnamas" each one of Satguru Hargobind Sahib's hukumnamas state "guru guru japna janam savar sangat dee kamnaa guru pooree karraygaa. Sangatee da ruzgaar hog, ik daasee rahinaa. Maas muchee day naray nahee avanaa." Please examine the last line. Clearly it says not to even go near meat or fish. This can't be just a hoax because all hukumnamas collected issued from Satguru jee bear this order.

Bhai Gurdas jee, whose banee was called the key to SGGS by Satguru Arjun dev jee says:

Sheeh pajooti Bakkari, maradi hoie harh harh hassi, Ak Dhatura khadian kuh kuh khal ukhal vinassi, Maas Khan gal wad ke, haal tinada kaun hovassi. (Vaar 25-7)

Means the goat says, "I was eating Ak and Dhatura plants (weed plants found in India) for whole of my life, to which no body else liked to eat. And even then I am being brutally killed and my skin being ripped, What will happen to those who cut my throat and eat my meat?

At some other place, Bhai Sahib talks about goat being cut by butcher to be eaten :

"kuhe Kassai Bakkari, lai loon seekh mass proyia" Hass hass bole kuhidi, khade ak haal eh hoyia, Maas khan gal churi de, haal tinada kaun aloyia" (Vaar 37-21)

Means: Goat is being killed, cut into pieces and salt being spread on the pieces. While being killed goat says this all happened to me while I was just eating Ak plant (weed found in India's desert fields). In last line goat puts a question, what will be the fate of those in the court of god who cut my throat with a knife and eat my meat?

Bhai Gurdas Ji in Vaar 31 gives strong warning against eating meat. He said, due to some good doings in previous births, Pootna (a witch who tried to poison Krishna Ji) was forgiven. But don't take it as that act of poisoning others is acceptable. And due to some pious acts in previous births and grace of Lord, Sadhana the butcher was forgiven (there is mention about him in Gurubani too, later on he became bhagat). But it should not be interpreted as, that killing animals and eating their meat (word "Bhanga" here) is acceptable. Please read the following lines of Bhai Sahib Ji:

"Jekar udhari pootna, Wihu pialan kam na changa, Je Kassai udharia, jeean ghai na khaiye Bhanga" (Vaar 31-5)

(Thanks to www.panthkhalsa.org for these quotes).

In SGGS banee which none of us can deny, there are also lots of tuks that say it is important not to eat meat. "Kabeer, jee jo maraahi jor kar, kahitay hai jo halal. Daftar daee jab kaid hai, hoigaa koun havaal" Meaning, those that used force and kill and call it halal, after going to the court of god, what will be their state? Here it may be argued that this tuk relates to halal, but think about it. Isn't force used in killing any animal for meat? Banee says "Parthai saakhee mahaa purakh bolday, saanjhee sagal jhaanai" meaning, what mahaapurakhs say applies to all, not just who they are specifically talking too. Here this line is addressed to Muslims, but it also applies too all who eat meat. . "Kabeer joree keeay julm hai, khaitaa naao halaal. Daftar laykhaa mangeeay tab hoigo koun havaal". Also, "Kabeer, jor keeaa so jolm hai, lay jabaab khudai. Daftar lykhaa neeksai mar muhai mohai khaii” meaning it is evil to use force and kill, god will certainly take you to task for it. When you must present your deeds in the court of god, you will face blows to the face. And "kabeer, bhaang maachulee suraapaan, jo jo praanee khai, teerath barat naym keeayai sabhai rasaatal jai” here Kabeer jee clearly states eating meat, fish and liqour is wrong and religion is not possible while eating these. "Bayd katayb kaho mat jhootay, jhoota jo na bichaarai. jo sabh mai eayk khudai kahit ho, to kio murgee maarai." meaning, the Semitic and Hindu scriptures aren't false, false is he who does not reflect on them. If they say that there is god in all, then why do you kill a chicken? Finally, Bhagat Kabeer jee says "Kabeer, khoob khaanaa kheechree jaa maih amrit loan. Hayraa rotee kaarnay galaa kutaavai koun” meaning it is good to eat kicharee (mixture of rice and pulses), that has been tastefully prepared with salt. Who should risk having their throat cut (in the after life) just for a meal of meat and bread?

Mercy is of utmost importance in gurmat "daya jaanai jee kee kich pun daan karai" from aasaa dee vaar tells us to have mercy on all living things. Guru jee also tells us "dookh naa dayee kisai jee, pat sio ghar jaavo" give pain to no living thing. go home with honour. Athsath teerath sagal punn jeey dayaa parwaan: Going to the 78 places of pilgrimage, of greater merit and acceptance is having mercy upon living things.

I could give hundreds of tuks on the importance of mercy in gurmat. There is no mercy in killing an animal if there are hundreds of other things we can eat. Plants feel no pain, they don't move or squirm when we harvest them. I know a screaming goat can feel the pain when I kill it. Plants have no nervous system. Plants are a life form that can't feel pain. Animals are not as such. Many brothers/sisters may say that Maas Maas kar moorakh jhagray shabad makes meat ok. No. This shabad tells the sanyaasees that vegetarianism is not a religion. It will not bring muktee. It criticises those who wish to call vegetarianism the greatest religion. I could translate this shabad and show this, but I'll leave it for now. If someone wants though, I would be happy to translate all shabads that meat eaters want to use for support and show that they don't even begin to support meat. I hope I haven’t hurt anyone's feelings and just wish everyone would be brave to find the truth and then accept it.

bhuls chuka maf

nic post from akj.com

yo randeep singh

first of allt he singh sahib thing in my post was towards another post, not ures

it had nothing to do with u

and star shud just use his real id, no need to hide, we all kno who u r

u need to go and read more actual books from taksal, not just surf the net and see wat it says

taksal says halal is kureight

but says u still shudnt eat chatka unless there is dharam yudh, no food, etc.

and AKA TAKHT HAS CERTIFIED DAMDAMI TAKSAL AMRYADA

taksal has been certifid by akal takht, its oinly idiots on internet psting crap

u seriously need to gt off internet and go read banee, and actual books printed by sant je, and see wat taksal says are 4 kureights

y not listen to sant kartaar singh jes katha on i kirtan on 4 bujjar kureight and see wa they say

banee vaar vaar says meat i wrong

check tapoban.org for many articles on this

and when they heck did this turn on taksal?

this topic was on jo rath peevhi

and just like wa missionaries do, one someone actually counters there arguments, they change to something else thas stupid

before opening ure big mouth u shud be careful of wat ure gonna say

taksal has done enough for the panth

once u do wat it has done then u can talk

but u havnt done jack except go on internet and talk crap, and baseless lies

and if u keep on opneing ure mouth for nindya of taksal, which i dunt kno WHERE taksal came into fromt his whole topic or wher i use taksal said so as an argument, but if u keep on saying crap u better be ready to back up wat ure saying in real life

u critice which is eazsy to do

but y dont u try to even do 1/4 of the seva taksal has done for the panth

u forget al the shaheedis its given?

allt he parchaars its done?

the millions that have took amrit?

the santhia on gurbanee?

the parchaar agasint gov?

who the heck r u to questin taksal

wat have u done for the panth, aside form sit behhing a computer and talk crap about a panthic orginazation

u live in tronto

if u really wanna ask questions

theres enough taksalees around

y dont u go straight to bhagath je and ask?

y dontu go to joth prkash and ask the singhs there from taksal?

y do u talk crap on internet?

y dont u really go to the singhs

ure in tornto, where theere are more than enough taksali singhs

go and ask ANYTIME

bhula chuka maf

vaheguru, im sure the camp will be craz

the one in tronto is always kool

im sure bc ones gonna be amazing

everyone shud try to attend

bhula chuka maf

yo no offenc but i dunt think maskeen was anywhere near sant nand singh es avastha, or baba gurbachan singh jes, or baba ishar singh jes, or the countless other sants avastha who say no

so using maskeens aid so as a argument aint gnna hold

and ya i kno maskeen supported meat, thas y he was kicked out of malton, of course hes gonna say it

and if u want to starrt with sants, then bring it here please veer je

and if sahib singh writes something its law?

perhaps he is WRONG? as ive seen sometimes i disagree with his trnlation

r singh

karamath isnt possible?

yo seriously

im askin SERIOUSLY

have u READ guru granh sahib je?

have u READ bhai gurdaas jes vaaran?

have U READ sikhi ithihaas?

if u didnt, u really need to because they all show all types of karamths are possible, and do happen

and WHER have i use taksal as my main argument on this thread?

wat the heck, ur making no sence

ure just making up ure own stuff

if u wish to check where akal takht has said ddt maryada ok, go get the actual book witht he khalsa maryada written by sant gurbachan singh je

and u will see in it

at least i saw in the coopy i read

ill do one better for u

ill photocopy, im gettin the book to buy anyways, so ill send it to u over pm

man y the hell do u like making up lies

seriously

y u like lying

or ure reaaally confused

taksal has not said whoever eats meat is not a sikh

it recoigzes halal as kureight

but it also strongly says dont eat chatka unless in jang, etc u heard the thing

and who is mking them bigger than guru je

by them, i mean sants

guru je himself in hukamanama has ordered to stay away from meat and fish

in banee many coutles times it says dont eat meat

bhagath kabir je says he who eats meat goes to hell, becuase meat stirs up kaam and other vices

it also says many times in banee not to kill animals

the shabad posted on this very thread supports fact not to eat meat

a vegie diet is best for bhagthee

and y shud we kill somethings mother or father

man bane vaar vaar, over and over, says dont eat meat

guru jes sants say dont eat it

guru jes hukamnmai say dont eat it

but like is aid before singh sahib

u dont belive me, k

do contunius sehaj paats and take a hukamnama

w.e guru je tells u to do do tha

they kno best

bhula chuka maf

wat about u

u do the same thing

and wat the hell

banee, hukamnai, all say dont eat meat

ad on top of that, gurmukhs say it to

well ya ure somene who has no faith in gurmukhs

let alone baba nand singh je, u also questioned bhai randheer singhje on another thread and then were shown u were wrong with banee thuks

and who cares is u belive

u also said soe messe dup stuff on tha bhai randheer singh je thread

o this is lies, this is lies

but banee and sakhees wa shown to prove tha those expiiernces were tru

its ure choice

y dont u do wat they did

see wat they saw

and tell us if its a lie

like i said

we shud all try to do contunius sehaj paaths

and beg guru je for a hukamnama

we shud try to do many hours of abiyaas a day, immersed in bane and simran

and beg guru je for answer

if we really want asnwers that badlyan ull find out for ureselves, were all the singhs lying, craz, or were they truly telling the truth

and banee and hukamnamai from guru je himself show that meat is not allowed

bhula chuka maf

veer je

i already said in my above post

i dont agree with everyting on tha site

and bhagath je is someone who is immersed in gurbanee

go meet them and ull see

and bhagath je has a lot of gian

if oly u wud go and ask these questions straight up

and if they give u an answer u will see

better yet, go ask for santhia

then u will seee

bt the banee, hukamanama, cannot be ignored

in prem bhagth prabh lagee on sant baba nand singh jes jeevan, one shud read the section written on meat

this book is written by sant jagjit singh je harkhowal wale

it has many good points

banee, hukamnamaai, gursikhs, wat more do u need

bhula chuka maf

first of all

no one said dasamgranth is guru

no one said it shud be seated beside guru granth shaib je

show me wher i said tha

and many times ive rea dbanee in story format

have u read about bhagath prehlaad jes stoie in gurbanee?

all it does is reteell the story

and does any of the crap u wrote have anything to do with the topic at hand?

who said buliding more gurgghars is good?

we have enough in my opinion

we need more parchaar daas thinks

who has 3 -4 jathedars, r u talkin bout taksal

taksal will have only one jathedar, sant je

as per order of baba je

u gonna call baba je a liar, go ahead

im agaisnt people who become jathedar by force

im agasint lying

im agasint killing humans

where have i supported in any of my posts that i support killing people,etc

jeeba da svaad, but ure killing a innocent animal?

wat bout its kids

do u really have no pyaar for vahegurus animals also?

i agree water, etc. have animals too

but to survive we must eat them

do u need lambchops to survive

no

even eating plants is a must to live

thas y we eat them

but tokill somethings mother, father is nt right

reminds of bhagath fareeds jes sakhee

when they were hunting

killed a mother deer

and they stopped eating meat and did ghor tapisya

becaue they saw the animals childrren go up to it, and bhagath je though who will give the children its milk now, etc.

and meat is not good for panj dooths

banee countles times saysmeat is wrong

everyime we think of stupid escuses

in banee it says whoever eats meat will go to hell

guru je issued a hukamanama,s til here, tha says dont go near meat and fish

how can u still say meat is ok?

and guru je hunted to make animals mukhth, anyone who dies by the hand of guru je is mukhth

and as for bhagath je

ive known these missonaries

all they do is try to convicne u to say meat is ok

stuf like tha

this is wrong, ure brhaman

this is bipran ke reeth

everythings bipranke reeth

but y dont they go to baba jagjit singh je and ask him the question when he gets here?

they dont want answers

they only want to change ure thinking

bhagath je is a gurmukh of the highest avastha, he has devotd his whole life to reading banee, understanding it, and most important, practicing wat it teaches, which a lot of us lack that quality

meat isnot to be eaten in sikhi

http://www.info-sikh.com/PageM2.html( btw i dunt agre with all the tranlations on that site, some are wrong, but some r right)

guru jeshukamanama forbids it

banee forbids it

i agree halal is kureight

but even chatka meat shud not be consumed

but if u dont belive wat ive posted, which most likley u wont, ok

then do a sehaj paat and take hukamanma

follow watever guru je tells u to in hukamanma

bhula chukamaf

and veer je

im only tellin u about buddhism from wat ive learned fromwat ive read and wat ive listend to them say

one buddhist rep at a erelgion conf was asked wat happenes after death

he laughed and say les wait and see

ull find out when u get there

and i kno tha buddhist dont belive in ahell afterlife either

they belive hell is only here

and well if i cant beliv eGURBANI

then i cant blive anything

and one cant doubt th power of gurbanee

when reading it

and the power in naam

at least daas cnnot

the power is immense

and so yes, u can see right no

RIGHT NOW

y do we need to wait

and if banee says it, then it is truth

bhula chuka maf

veer je the akal takht maryada isnt panthic either

not all jathai were invloved, and some stuff it says GOES AGASINT EVERY SINGLE JATHA INT HE PANTH

so it isnt really a panthic mryada

and akal takht has veen said taksal is one of the panthic maryadas, ull see tha in taksal book it says this maryada is verified by the akal takht

so even akal takht itself doesnt say tha u have to follow our maryada or thas it

and best thing is to look at fact that banee says to stay sabath surath right? and we shud keep the form of the khalsa

i mean khalsa mero roop hai khaas

like for jobs and stuff ya everyone understands

even sant ishar singh je did for army

but for heck of it

prob best to leave it untied

looks better too

bhula chuka maf

veer je

i agree tha bones and meat have nothing to do with that shabad

and tha is a mistranlation on the singhs part who made tha site

so , the singh made a mistrnalation

everyone is bhulanhar

maybe he hasa reason that we dont kno

from wat I kno, thas wrong tranlation

and its not ALL of takal making that trnaltion

its one singh sahib

and other guest guy

first of all

bhagath je is much more knowledgable then missionaries out there

for our own jeebs taste, we twist gurbanees aarth to suit ourselves

and wat the heck do u mean gurbanee doesnt have stories

seriously people writing here, have u EVER READ GURU GRANTH SAHIB JE???

its FULLL OF STORIES MAN

u better go read it

and for trnlasting

it doesnt work like english

it isnt word for word trnaltions

punjabee is diff from english

guru jes sayin

if the clothes of the qazi are made impure by the blood of the chicken

wat about the peopl who consume blood, how will there minds be pure?

bhula chuka maf

umm, yes it shud be leift open and untied...

please read post above ures

bhula chuka maf

khalsa fauj je

look

jo rath peevhi mansaa

i agree that jo is one

rath is blood

peevhi is to drink

aand mansaa is humans

sooo jo rath peevhi mansaa

those humans who drink bloood

and rsingh je, when i meant i wasnt sure, was because i might miss 1 or 2 little detials

not that im making a bunch of crap up

if our clothes are polluted and unclean when blood touches them

unpure

guru je says o qazi

how can those humans who drink blood have a pure mind??

if our clothes are stained by blood, wat about our mind when we eat the blood of another animal?

jo rath peevhi maansa thin kio nirmal cheeth

it doesnt say maansa DA

or the blood OF humans

it has nothing to do with drinking HUMAN BLOOD

but if we look fromt he above thuk

how can thosse who drink blood have a pure mind?

it is talking bout the qazi, who complains his clothes have been stained by blood, but guru jesays wat bout those who drink it, how can there mind be pure?

bhula chuka maf

how did u get tha trnlation

im doing it from punjabee to

jo rath peevhi mansa think kio nirmal cheeth

jo rath peevhi mansa

the human who drinks blood

thin kio nirmal chet

how can they have a pure mind

if u REALLY dont belive me, BEST person for aarth, khalsa fauj je, u kno who, bhagth je

:wub:

bhula chuka maf

if U PLAN on taking amrit, READ GURBANEE, have started reight

u are sehajdharee sikh

if u are amridharee and follow reight, u are a TRU SIKH

:wub:

hope tha helps

bhula chuka maf

jo rath peeveh maansa thin koi nirmal cheeth

how can th human who drinks blood, have a pur mind?

how has takal misinrpeted this shabad?

this is not only in sikhi dharm but many other dharms

and this has a sakhee behind it

i dunt remeber 100 percent

BUT

there was guru nanak dev je and bhai mardana je

and there was this qazi doing halaal

and the chicken started running around and blood got all over his clothes

and then the qazi had t change it or something cause hes like they impure now

so guru nanak dev je said if ure clothes are impure because ther is blood on them, then how cn ure mind be pure if u drink the blood of that animal, meaning eatting meat

and show daas the place where taksal has misinterpeted any shabad

taksal is known in the panth for one great thing

shudh banee and the best santhia

bhula chuka maf

swbq sUrq isDw dwVHw ]

kwT dw kMGw kysIN cwVHw ]

"The complete form of man is with a beard, which is left untied. The Kesh are combed by this person with a wooden Kangha."

Amritdharee Singhs are to keep their beards open and untied.

from

www.damdamitaksal.com

howeer, some circumastances like some jobs force us to tie our dharees

thas acceptablle

but to tie it just for th heck of it isnt allowed

bhula chuka maf

remeber vaheguru has many names

:wub:

bhula chuka maf

veer je

one must be pure form in and out

jeeahu nirmal baahro nirmal

one who is pure from out, wears bana, but has no banee will not meet akaal

but one must also follow reight too

as guru je himself has said

guru je

:wub:

bhula chuka maf

the day the khalsa gives complete power to panj pyarai, and are tru gursikhs is when guru je will help us

only panj pyarai can rule khalstaan, with guru granth sahb je

even sant attar singh je said the day khalsa gives all authority to panj, all its affiars will be in order

we must become gursikhs first, and have a country built on the principles given to us by guru gobind singh je

then that country will be invincible

bhula chuka maf

khalstaan can make a law

if cops see u even in canada, messin with flag, ure in trouble

its a coutnry for GURU JE

we shud fly his NISHAN SAHIB

the same one guru je took into jungs

and used as his flag

its been made by guru je as the flag of the khalsa

and ya, when we get khalstaan, laws can be made to prevent beadbi

bhula chuka maf

i understnad veer je:)

but to really understnad if sant je was congress, we must look at sant je himself

and look at wat they did, aske for, etc

and we will see if they were gov or not:)

bhula chuka maf

but thas y guru je gave SANTHIA

if we cudnt understnad banee, therw wud be no point in guru je giving it to us

thas y guru je started places to give santhia

and tha is a buddhist attitutde again

we shal see when we get there

but y shud we wait to kn

when guru je has left us the answers

and when gurmukhs such as bhai sahib randheer singh je

and pretty much all sants and gurmukhs say that there is a narak?

and when banee itself sayss it, y do we doubt it?

bhula chuka maf