Akali

"WHAT ARE YOU DOING FOR THE FIGHT FOR KHALISTAN AS YOU LOT PUT IT? FROM WHAT I CAN SEE YOU ARE THE KEYBOARD SHER'S WHO SIT BEHIND A PC AND STATE THIS AND THAT ABOUT KHALISTAN. SO I ASK AGAIN, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? ARE YOU FIGHTING FOR KHALISTAN? ARE YOU PREPARING FOR A SHOWDOWN WITH INDIA? ALL I CAN SEE FROM THE SANGAT WHO HAVE POSTED ON THIS TOPIC IS A LOT OF HOT AIR!"

what do you want me to show up at your front door with my anti-aircraft gun? maybe i'll mail my home address to you and give you my address in punjab too. what hot air you talking about? what have we done for khalistan, what have you done for india? why aren't you in kashmir right now defending the border? why are you wasting your time on a khalistan topic if it is such a joke and a bunch of hot air? what have you anti-khalistanis done for india, how may singhs you got killed?

are we fighting for khalistan, yeah hor das. asi larr rehe ah, with sikh like you. we're fighting for khalistan not against anyone else but sikhs like you with a slave mentality. we're fighting with education, lectures in universities, in inter-religious conferences. everytime we have a chance to speak before a large inter-religious forum we show teh world the false gandhi-india legacy and myth.

typical anti-khalistan rubbish, what are u doing.....what you want us to be some terrorists like your KPS Gill or something. khalistanis are people who respect human rights. our fight is a fight for the truth, i don't know what your vision of a khalistani is.....

peace out man. your not worth talking to.

Typical. As soon as someone doesn't agree with the idea of Khalistan, they're automatically labelled an Indian lover just as this fool has labelled me. It's probably people like you who go around and give beatings to Sikh's who don't agree with Khalistan (I know many Sikh's who have suffered beatings by Pro-Khalistani's just because they didn't agree with their stance on the subject). Like I stated in a previous post, it would be nice to have a seperate nation for the Sikh's but looking at it from a realistic point of view, it will not occur. India is not a little country no more with no power and it will not do as America tells it to (I'm refering to another topic posted on SikhSangat about how Israel was formed with the USA's backing) or it will not bow to international pressure.

Anyway, at least when I respond to posts, I try and answer all the points made in the post questioning my reply. You just picked on the last part of my post. Answer the rest of the points raised in my post. And on a final note, do not make derogatory remarks on your posts 'YOUR NOT WORTH TALKING TO.' I'm raising questions that I would like answered by people such as yourself. It can be used as constructive discussion. Items you have raised can make me question certain items I believe and you can do like-wise with mine. No need to get like that in a discussion is there?

Narinder Singh mentions that 400 sikhs equiped with old weaponary held off 200,000 troops armed with modern weaponary. I hate to disillusion you but if it was a conventional battle i.e. the sikhs were not in the Golden Temple complex, India would have just brought in the air force to conduct air strikes. What do I ask will you do then?

Another sangat member states that India has many problems with other groups such as the maoists. OK agreed. India has many problems but as soon as any one of these groups launches a full scale uprising against Indian rule where they openly fight against Indian rule in a full manner i.e. launch war, they will be quashed and the world can not do anything about it as a country has the right to protect its sovereignity.

mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan you state that India doesn't have any leader to replace Gandhi and Nehru so should it stop existing as a nation? Bottom line is that India is an established country. They only need people to maintain it however the Sikh Kaum (if there is an extremely remote chance of obtaining khalistan) needs great leaders to fill the shoes of the greats of the likes of Jarnail Singh etc because there is NO Sikh homeland.

You also talk about that the world would do something if Pakistan took over a soveriegn nation. Well I raised points in my previous post about what the world did when Pakistan conducted nuclear tests (actually I mean the lack of what the world did(!)). However, realistically speaking if Pakistan did take over a soveriegn nation such as Khalistan, the world would only apply diplomatic pressure and sanctions as there is too great a risk to chance military confrontation with a nation with nuclear weapons and who has also stated in the past that they are willing to use them if war arose. On the other hand, India has stated that it would never use nuclear weapons unless it was attacked with nuclear weapons first but Pakistan have stated that they wouldn't hesitate to use them regardless.

All the people who have posted comments arguing against me, I ask you one question,

WHAT ARE YOU DOING FOR THE FIGHT FOR KHALISTAN AS YOU LOT PUT IT? FROM WHAT I CAN SEE YOU ARE THE KEYBOARD SHER'S WHO SIT BEHIND A PC AND STATE THIS AND THAT ABOUT KHALISTAN. SO I ASK AGAIN, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE? ARE YOU FIGHTING FOR KHALISTAN? ARE YOU PREPARING FOR A SHOWDOWN WITH INDIA? ALL I CAN SEE FROM THE SANGAT WHO HAVE POSTED ON THIS TOPIC IS A LOT OF HOT AIR!

Dude u sound like a true AKALI, if we have people as pessimistic as u trying to get any sort of political autonomy in Punjab, we've failed already.

I wouldn't be pessimistic if people made realistic demands. Now if someone said that they would want holy city status given to Amritsar, I would back that 100%. If someone said that the manufacture and sale of intoxicants in Panjab was to be banned, I would also back that. These are reasonable demands that can be met if the proper channels are explored.

When pro-khalistani's start saying that they will gain a seperate homeland from India, I would like that to happen but realistically, it won't. Do you honestly believe that India will just hand over Panjab to the Sikh's and say here you go, make Khalistan an independant country? India has a lot to lose from giving up Panjab as it supply's a great deal of agricultural products.

The failure Narinder Singh, started during the first fight for Khalistan during the late 1980's - mid 1990's. People turned on their own and gave up the brave Sikh fighters. The Sikh kom had strong leaders at that time and people who organised the movement, Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, Baba Gurbachan Singh Manochal, Sukhdev Singh Babbar and countless other Shaheeds like the ones mentioned. Who have we got that can fill their shoes and continue the fight?

what soviet era world are you living in akali?

last i looked nations don't just take over other other nations without international scrutiny. Kashmir is considered a vital clash point in the world today, recognized by the west. do you honestly think Mr scholar that the world would just sit and watch pakistan(a known terrorist supporting nation, take over a free punjab which is a couple steps from kashmir?!

seriously, i have heard good anti-khalistan points but your assumptions are absurd. Who is protectintg india from pakistan right now? Are you one of those bharat mata sikhs who thinks having nuclear weapons makes india tough? The day india uses nuclear weapons, china is going wipe india off the face of the earth not to mention america would drop so many bombs in india that even gandhi would shake in his grave.

india has pakistan-phobia and obviously so do many of the bhartiyah sikhs these days. when india became independent china attcaked and nehru had a heart attack. we haven't even gotten khalistan yet and people like you are already wetting your pants. geez get a grip man.

On your point about Kashmir, why do you think Pakistan wants Kashmir to be an independant country (i.e. no Indian or Pakistan administered Kashmir)? And talking about international scrutiny, what did the world do when the US and UK waged an illegal war on Iraq? Let's also talk about India and Pakistan. When the 2 countries conducted nuclear tests, sanctions were placed upon them and were told by the world (namely the US) to discontinue their respective nuclear weapons programmes. Did they? NO! They carried on and amassed more weapons. SO WHAT DID THE WORLD DO THEN? On another note, when genocide occured in Panjab in 1984 and onwards, what did the world do to India then? The bottom line is that the world only acts on nations that are weak and will not or are not capable of doing anything.

Using common sense, India does not need protecting from Pakistan today. India has a far superior armed forces then Pakistan and India's air force is one of the best equiped in the world containing the LCA (which the US wants to replace it's F-16's), Russian aircraft such as the MiG series and Sukhoi. In a conventional war, Pakistan stands no chance. 1965 and 1971 are proof of this. I think it is you who needs to wake up. India has come a long way in terms of military might. China would not like to wage a war with India now because it would be extremely difficult and costly (in terms of lives) to both nations. The saying 'why fight with someone who you know can fight back just as good' springs to mind.

And on your comment about China attacking India in 1960's, Nehru had stated that India would be a peaceful nation. On the strength of this, China took advantage and decided to attack. However, the Indian Army still kept China at bay. China did gain some Indian territory.

Talking about me wetting my pants? I'm just being realistic. The greatest Sikh uprising for Khalistan was immediately after Bluestar and continued on till the mid 1990's and Khalistan still was not obtained. What makes you think that Khalistan will be obtained now when true sikhs are a smaller minority now than they were back then?

im disgusted by the atitude of some keyboard "shers" in this.

how dare you guys judge all the dukh so many shaheeds and their famillies have been through with so much disdain. Shame on you.

i suggest you open your eyes and take a look if you think the brave sikhs who still live in Punjab dont deserve freedom.

Who are you to say who does and doesnt?

I know i may sound very angry, but i just think there is a total lack of respect.

Please forgive my mistakes, as i am but a worm.

Daasan Daas

Glasgow Singh

GuruFateh!

I am in no way attempting to discredit any of the Shaheeds or anyone else who has fought in this battle against oppression but I feel that at this present moment in time, we need to address the issue of Khalistan becoming a reality. I raised points about this in my previous post so would any of the Sangat answer them? Maybe I should have made it clear in my previous post that I in no way inferred any disrespect to the shaheeds. And Glasgow Singh, if you read my post properly, I clearly stated that TRUE SIKH'S are now a minority. Yes they deserve freedom and the right to practice Sikhi in its entirety without any restraints but who will support these true sikhs? I suggest you read my post again and then raise answers to the points that I have raised. Looking forward to your reply.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Sat Sri Akal!

Firstly, most people have lost their Sikh identity. Panjab is the classic example. I'm from the UK and it is also evident here. Many people go about saying they are Sikh's yet partake in intoxicants. Some of these so-called Sikh's also have a kesh etc.

But lets talk about the reality of Khalistan. Dasmesh Pita, Guru Gobind Singh said DO NOT lose this precious gift of Khalsa, once lost, it will never be regained. This is evidant in today's world. Many Sikh's (including those who have taken Amrit, do not abide by the Rehat so Khalsa has been lost today. But a further reality is that let's say that Panjab gets independance and becomes the nation of Khalistan. As soon as this happens, India will wash it's hands of Panjab/Khalistan as it is a seperate country. As soon as this occurs, Pakistan will attack and take over. India will not come to the aid of Khalistan as it is a seperate nation. What I ask the people who demand Khalistan, will you do then? Are you going to fight the Pakistan Armed Forces with your Kirpan's? Some of you will say we will use modern weaponary, but who has stockpiled such weapons? Don't forget, modern warfare has advanced greatly since 1984. The Pakistan Armed Forces are equiped with modern firepower, tanks and aircraft. What would today's Khalistani's equip themselves with?

I don't believe in achieving a seperate nation. It won't happen and even if it did, it would never last because true sikhs are a minority in todays world, we have too many idiots and supposed sikhs in our society today. The fight should be to declare Amritsar a holy city where the manufacture and sale of intoxicants is prohibited as it is in other holy cities in India. Our primary concern should be that Sikh's worldwide follow the true path and not some hocus-pocus superstitious one.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

GuruFateh!

I have seen this documentary and also own the DVD. I say that it is an excellent film and I recommed that everyone watches it. It is superbly made and gives a wonderful insight into Sikhi and especially Guru Gobind Singh.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Sat Sri Akal!

There are many points in Gurbani that show that we as Sikh's are distinct from Hindu's. There are passages in the Guru Granth that do not agree with certain Hindu beliefs. I will give 1 example.

Hindu's believe that God has come onto Earth in a human form and undergo everything that a human has to do, examples of this is Krishan. But in a passage written by the 5th Master, Guru Arjan Dev Ji, he states

'Burnt be the mouth that says God is born. God is neither born, nor dies. He is ever present.'

I will post more points that state we are not Hindu's and these can be used by the topic starter if any of the family members attempt to silence their righteous beliefs!

I don't believe in caste but I have to use caste to get my point across if u know what I mean:

I am a Chamar and I have to say that the Chamar community is one of the most messed up. Looking into the Chamar community I know in Wolverhampton, I have come across so many splinter groups such as Adharmi Brotherhood, Ravidassia. They create so many segregations between themselves and just add to the problems. I remember a few years ago, that the commitee of the Ravidass Gurudwara on Dudley Rd (Wolverhampton) had 2 factions, the Adharmi Brotherhood and the normal. There was so much arguements in the meetings. Rather than solve problems, they just added to them by creating these stupid side groups!

Another example is that last year I grew a kesh and wore a pagh. I also grew my beard. So many idiotic people in my family kept on making silly comments (terrorist, Mr. Singh etc). They make comments and fun out of people yet I feel they should look at themselves.

Some people you can never win over but concentrate on yourself. I say to the person who started the topic:

Don't worry, you have chosen the right path. Follow this path in the fullest capacity and with Waheguru's kirpa, you will overcome all obstacles. I can personally say that since I have embraced Sikhi, I am a better person. I have more control over myself (Man Jeeta Jag Jeet), I do not partake in intoxicants (I used to drink before) and generally I am a better person. It's not just me saying it, my brother, grandparents and friends also say it. So I'll say it again, Be Strong In The Path You Have Chosen, and With Waheguru's Grace, You'll Be Succesful!!!!

Bole So Nihaal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sat Sri Akal!!!!!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Satnaam Shri Waheguru!!

GuruFateh!

I was also bought up believing that I was a Hindu but deep down inside I knew that my family did not follow the Hindu way of life and religion so how were they Hindu? Everyone in the family got married in a Gurudwara. Till this day, there are many people in my family who believe they are Hindu. My classic response to them was 'if you are a Hindu, why didn't you get a bedi wedding (around the fire) in a mandir with a pandit? why did you get married in the Guru's Hazoori?'

I'm also from Wolverhampton and have been to the Ravidass Gurudwara's on Dudley Road and Union Row, Handsworth. But I've stopped going to those Gurudwara's because I feel that they have clearly sectioned themselves away from Sikhi. In those Gurudwara's, the Jaikara is 'Bole So Nihaal, Shri Guru Ravidass Maharaj Ki Jai' and also when the Ardass is done, they have changed the 'Dohira' and there is not mention of 'Raj Karega Khalsa.' I now attend the Gurudwara's on Sedgley St, Cannock Rd and the Wednesfield Gurudwara as they fully follow Sikhi.

I say the best way to combat these people (I had them in my family) is to make sure your Sikhi knowledge is great and you have great knowledge and respect of Gurbani and so you can quote passages from the Guru Granth. Out of my whole family (including massars, massis etc), my Baba and Daddi (grandparents), my brother and myself are the only ones who say we are Sikh. The thing is I know sufficient Sikh knowledge and Gurbani to quote to support my stance as a Sikh but in the game of life, I do not know enough. With Waheguru's kirpa, this can be done and hopefully, I will become an Amritdhari.

On a final note, I will quote Shaheed Jarnail Singh Bhindranwala:

'Hindu pakah Hindu baneh, Musalman pakah Musalman, te Sikh pakah Sikh baneh'

So if people believe they are Hindu's, they should follow Hinduism in a full manner not half and half i.e. go to Gurudwara's, get married in a Gurudwara and then say we are Hindu. I think Bhindranwala hit the nail on the head with that statement.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

GuruFateh!

Could someone please post the translation to this shabad or post a link?

Thanks.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

GuruFateh!

I would like to know the Sangat's opinion on this matter. Ravidass was a Bhagat. The only issue is that certain elements of our community have made him into a Guru, hence Guru Ravidass. This is evident by the Guru Ravidass Temple on Dudley Rd, Wolverhampton and Guru Ravidass Bhawan on Union Row (off Soho Rd), Birmingham.

My personal opinion is that Ravidass was a Bhagat as there was only the 10 Guru's and the eternal Guru, the Guru Granth Sahib. I now quote Bhagat Ravidass's Shabad 'Sachi Preet.'

'Tumre Bhajan, Kahte jamh phasa

Bhagat heth, gaave Ravidassa'

I draw emphasis on the last line 'Bhagat heth, gaave Ravidassa.' This roughly translates to 'Sings Ravidass, the Bhagat.' This was written by Bhagat Ravidass himself and he refers to himself as a Bhagat NOT Guru. So why do some people in our community refer to him as Guru Ravidass?

I have heard people justify the calling of Bhagat Ravidass as Guru Ravidass by saying that he had a large following and that made him a Guru. But didn't the other Bhagat's have large followings also?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

GuruFateh!

This is a must for Sikhs. Gurudwara's should not allow the Guru Granth Sahib to be taken to any place where any disrespect to the Guru can take place. If people wish to have Akhand Paths, Sukhmani Sahibs etc conducted in their homes by a Gurudwara, a granthi should pay a visit prior to the event and see whether the people follow maryada and alcohol and other intoxicants are not used in the house nor are they present in the house.

Gurudwara commitees should play a more active role in these matters. Some of my local gurudwara's have commitees who are not bothered about these sort of things but more bothered about petty squables and have a lot of in-fighting.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

Vaheguru jee ka khalsa, Vaheguru Jee kee fateh

I have a very simple question....is it okay to do ardaas in english? I'm not talking about "formal" ardaas that you do after paat or kirtan....obviously this is read in punjabi. But what if you wanted to do ardaas for a general reason (for example, ask God to help your friend who is sick feel better....this is the best example i could think of...lol).  The reason why I am asking this is because my punjabi isn't the greatest...and I sometimes find it easier to "speak" to God in english.  Also, is there a specific ardaas that you are suppose to do before you eat?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Vaheguru Jee ka khalsa, Vaheguru Jee kee fateh

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GuruFateh!

It's OK to talk, pray etc to Waheguru in English if you can express yourself better. Language is no barrier to Waheguru. He knows your inner most thoughts. Even if you are thinking about Waheguru, he knows. This is the power of the all mighty! This is why man can never fool God i.e. some people give to charity because they think that something good will happen to them. But these people do not realise that God knows their ulterior motives. Giving to charity should be a selfless act where one gives to help another and not expect anything in return.

Also, I feel it's important to be able to speak and read Gurmukhi as this is the language of the Guru's and is present in the Guru Granth. We may read english translations but this can NEVER be as good as the original script of Gurmukhi. Sorry for going on a bit!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

How do we combat Sikhs dating outside the religion? in particular punjabi girls who seem to be easily led astray like sheep by muslim guys who use and abuse them thinking they getting one over the Sikhs.

Is it an image problem? Turbanned Sikh guys seen as too religious and backwards with their dastaars, their kirpan, their uncut hair long flowing hair,etc.

Because I've also noticed on most Sikh marriage sites most girls perfer Sikh guys who are shaved and have short cut hair. Is this a sign of the times? As more and more guys are trimming/cutting their hair to conform to the ideals of most females and modern western thinking society.

Is it simply a process of natural selection, the weak being weeded out and only the strong remain?

Any thoughts?

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Gurufateh!

This seems to be a big problem in today's society. Many males shy away from keeping unshorn hair and beards as this is not seen as normal in a western society. In our own communities (well I've noticed), people look upon you as backward etc if you grow your hair/beard. I have been growing my hair and beard now for a few months as I feel that I am worthy of having a kesh and wearing a turban. Hopefully, one day with Waheguru's kirpa, I will take amrit and become one of the Khalsa Panth. Anyway, members of my own family (not my internal family) have made comments and started calling me 'Sant' etc which annoys me and I combat this by quoting Gurbani and Guru Gobind Singh regarding kesh.

One problem is that people in the UK are to westernised and those of us who want to follow the ways of Sikhi are looked upon as abnormal. However, I say to the Sangat be proud of your Sikhi and wear your turban and beard with pride. When I tie my turban, I feel proud that I am doing so.

A further example is seen on weddings. Many grooms (who otherwise shave and cut their hair) arrive at the Gurudwara wearing a turban and having a beard of some sort (whether it be stubble growth or a shaped-out beard etc). Why does no-one make these comments then? I feel that these people do so because they think that they can be in the presence of the Guru in man's natural form. What they don't realise is that Waheguru is present everywhere and will also be there when you shave or trim your beard of after the Anand Karaj has taken place.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

keep a heavy kara on you at all times as it's a good substitute for knuckle dusters. plus it's less dangerous to carry than a knife.

if they ever talk smack to you face-to-face, then by all means give them a whooping. use your heavy kara, because iron's harder than bone anyday!

remember, don't start a fight, ever. But if someone confronts you head on with hate language, then do teach them a lesson. But remember, if they approach in a group, then think of your safety, attack one of them and flee.

get a nice heavy kara, preferrably one with a pointed outer edge instead of those rounded kinds.

goodluck in battle ( if the need ever arises)

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What a fool you are!!!!!!!!! How dare you say that someone should use their kara as a weapon!! Out of the panj kakkar, the kirpan is what is used for defence NOT a kara!

The stupidity of some people!!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

keep a heavy kara on you at all times as it's a good substitute for knuckle dusters. plus it's less dangerous to carry than a knife.

if they ever talk smack to you face-to-face, then by all means give them a whooping. use your heavy kara, because iron's harder than bone anyday!

remember, don't start a fight, ever. But if someone confronts you head on with hate language, then do teach them a lesson. But remember, if they approach in a group, then think of your safety, attack one of them and flee.

get a nice heavy kara, preferrably one with a pointed outer edge instead of those rounded kinds.

goodluck in battle ( if the need ever arises)

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What a fool you are!!!!!!!!! How dare you say that someone should use their kara as a weapon!! Out of the panj kakkar, the kirpan is what is used for defence NOT a kara!

The stupidity of some people!!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

keep a heavy kara on you at all times as it's a good substitute for knuckle dusters. plus it's less dangerous to carry than a knife.

if they ever talk smack to you face-to-face, then by all means give them a whooping. use your heavy kara, because iron's harder than bone anyday!

remember, don't start a fight, ever. But if someone confronts you head on with hate language, then do teach them a lesson. But remember, if they approach in a group, then think of your safety, attack one of them and flee.

get a nice heavy kara, preferrably one with a pointed outer edge instead of those rounded kinds.

goodluck in battle ( if the need ever arises)

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What a fool you are!!!!!!!!! How dare you say that someone should use their kara as a weapon!! Out of the panj kakkar, the kirpan is what is used for defence NOT a kara!

The stupidity of some people!!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

GuruFateh!

I do not agree with re-marriage in this sense. If your first marriage was in a Gurudwara, then your laava were done in Guru's Hazoori. Being divorced in man's court may make you legally single and able to marry again but does divorce make you single from your spouse in the eyes of God?

Other religions tend to be against divorce also.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

GuruFateh!

It just shows how ignorant some people are. On one hand they say that religion is man-made but how about the laws that are made in the said countries? Who makes those may I ask? Yep, men. So, they have just invalidated their arguement by saying that. They are saying that men made religion hence men made Sikhi so men made the rule of wearing a Kirpan. Those foolish Canadians are saying why should we accept something that has been made by men. So I ask them why should we follow rules of Canada because they are also made by men!

Religion man-made, THE VERY IDEA! HA! Religion was created by God's messengers who came upon this Earth at various times to put mankind on the right path.

Dasmesh Pita, Guru Gobind Singh made Khalsa in Jujhar Singh's roop and made it compulsary for Sikh's to carry weapons. The great deads carried out by Sikhs is shown in history and this is because we are allowed by religion to carry arms and fight injustice and oppression! I would like to ask these fools (and that is what they are) what state India etc would have been in at this moment in time if it wasn't for the sacrifice of the Sikhs!

Gurbani is a precious gift that was given to the world by the messengers of Waheguru. We should not forget that! That is what is important not what some supposed democratic fools decide to do! These same people say that their rights should be protected in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks but I'd like to pose a question. In the UK, attacks took place on 7/7 most likely due to the illegitame war waged in Iraq. This war went against the principles of Sikhi as stated by Guru Gobind Singh 'Our work is not to instigate a clash or make the first move, ours is to give a fitting response to an atack.' Most of the UK public did not agree to the war in Iraq but was there opinions heard by the so-called democratic British Government? Why don't these people send e-mails to their MP's or whatever they have in Canada and voice concerns about voices of the people in a democratic country not being heard?

If someone is an Amritdhari Sikh, they have to follow the 5 Kakkar's without a shadow of doubt! That means wear your kirpan with pride! It is a symbol of our faith!

May Waheguru bless those people who are involved in yet another struggle for the Sikhs!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

That Mark Tully sed unfortunately Bhindranwale wasn't inteligent...Wat the hell he on about? I say Sant Ji inteligent then him 4 sure.

Those others song makers jus made me larf they'll b lyk INDIRA JI ! Ma ar*se "JI".

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Actually you can tell a persons intelligence by looking at the number of languages they speak and their qualifications and not by how much unregulated religious claptrap they profess to know.

I did watch the documentary and unless you were around at the time as a journalist, then most of you who are probaby in your late teens won't really be qualified to judge or comment.

Your views would be based on zero experience, lets be honest about that.

Most firebrand clerics like Osama Bin Laden don't really know spirituality from their backsides, many muslim kids originally thought Osama was a champion, but we all know he's a d***head, sorry for those who support the likes of him, but such self appointed firebrand clerics use religion to further their undemocratic political agendas.

Mark Tully was and is a renowned journalist, he has the qualifications to prove it.

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We as Sikhs do not care whether someone is intelligent in terms of academia etc. These are all worldly goods and will be left here at the time of death. The best education a Sikh can get is to learn the religion and follow the ways of Sikhi. That is what is important. Sangat Ji, don't get fooled and enveloped by Maya! The REAL qualifications will be achieved if one reaches Sachkand!

Anyway, Atheist, who are you to say things about 'religous claptrap'? If you don't believe in religion, that's your choice and yours alone so YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SAY WHAT YOU HAVE!

On the question of Bhindranwale, the sangat just has to listen to many of his speeches that are available on-line and one can easily tell that Bhindranwale was religously intelligent and also socially and politically intelligent!

IN REMEMBRANCE OF A GREAT WARRIOR (SAINT-SOLDIER):

SHAHEED JARNAIL SINGH BHINDRANWALE!!!!!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!!

im from near wolves and wanna help out. who else is??

also anyone willing to be a dare devil should not because that ik niwas has got two mean looking guard dogs!!!!!!

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GuruFateh!

I'm from Wolverhampton but I am currently at Liverpool John Moores Uni. If disrespect of the Guru Granth is taking place in the Ek Niwas, we need to approach them and try and sort it out peacefully. If not, the answer lies in my signiture.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

u guys talk about Ik Niwas, you should c the other Gurdwara on the same street: 'Guru ravidass Temple'. Its all gud and they do consider Guru Ji as their Guru but also Bhagat Ravidass as Guru hence the name of the Gurdwrara, but when they do aarti its like watching aarti in a form of Hindu worship...they blow conch shells, ring bells, wave a thali around Guru Ji which is basically set on fire!!

And they do 3 jaikare: one of them is Bole So Nihal: Guru Ravidass Maharaj Ki Jai?

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GuruFateh!

I know the Gurudwara that you are on about. I've been there a few times. On the birthday of Bhagat Ravidass, they had a celebration day in the hall opposite the Gurudwara and that's where I heard the Jaikara

'Bole So Nihal, Guru Ravidass Maharaj Ki Jai'

I got well <mod-cut> and the main thing was that they only said that jaikara. The commitee members kept on shouting that Jaikara but I made it a point to myself to shout 'Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh' Without Waheguru's grace, none of the Bhagat's or Guru's would have done what they did.

I've seen them do Aarti with a thali but I've never seen conch shells blown or bells rung. Has anyone seen this that has been there recently?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

gurfateh ji!!

sangat ji this topic has probably been bought up a lot of times but iv tried searchin and cant find it.

n e way i was having a conversation with this guy and he says he believes in sex before marriage and i said no its wrong. and he replied why do i need a marriage certificate so that i can do it!!

and i woz stunned i just didnt know wot 2 say becuase i dont really know that the EXACT reason but i do know its wrong.

So could someone tell me the exact reason or show me where in the bani it is

gurfateh ji!!

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GuruFateh!

This guy that said he doesn't need a certificate is clearly mad and has miunderstood the meaning of marriage. Too many people in today's world think that marriage is just a piece of paper and has no meaning. This is where society has damaged us. The marriage of sikh's does not involve paper. The prospective couple are seated in 'Guru's Hazoori' and their lawa take place in the presence of the Guru Granth Sahib and Waheguru. That is marriage not going to some registry office and signing some papers. This aspect is only done to satisfy the law element of countries i.e. so legally, a woman is known to be a certain man's wife etc. But we shouldn't stray away from the fact that the marriage ceremony is the Anand Karaj and that is what is important.

Sex is not allowed before marriage as Guru Tegh Bahadur said. 'Do not venture into another woman's bed, not even in a dream.' If it has been said by a Guru, it should be followed with no exceptions. People who try and justify themselves have no basis for their assertion.

Whilst we're on the subject, divorce is also not allowed. In today's society, it is seen as acceptable to have a divorce. I know a couple who were married for 30 years and then decided to get a divorce because 'they didn't get on.' Divorce seperates a man and woman in the eyes of the law, but does it seperate you in the eyes of Waheguru? In whose prescence you were married?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

GuruFateh!

I was wondering if anyone has the words to the song 'Baba Tera Nankana' by Chamkila? Also, on the same album is a song about the Great Warrior Shaheed Baba Deep Singh. Could someone also post the words to this song also?

Thanks.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

As sikhs we know the importance of the belief in one God.

But Islam also talks about this.

But still Shah Rukh Khan, born into a Muslim family, is married to a Hindu and his children follow both religions.

At home, next to idols of Hindu gods he has the Koran. The most important thing is that "the children should know about the value of God".

copied n pasted from:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4274774.stm

My question to the Sangat is will this be Disrespect to the Siri Guru Granth Sahib if we placed Hindu Idols next to the SGGS, If their is a interfaith marriage between a  Sikh and a Hindu.

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH.

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Gurufateh!

My personal opinion on this matter is that it would be wrong to place idols next to the Granth as Sikhi is against idol worship. However, there are many supposed sikhs who do practice a form of idol worship (i.e. when they start worshiping the Guru's as God's and forget the cardinal rule, That There is Only One God).

It would be confusing for the children as they would be taught from both religions and there would be conflicting ideas such as the fact that the Koran states that Allah made man superior to woman wheras in Sikhi, there is no seperate distinction between man and woman, they are both equal. Being brought up with 2 different religions would affect you as there would be many differences.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!