DSGj

LOL, wow, you clearly have changed your attitude all of a sudden. And you're repeating the same things over and over again. You keep on saying it's not in Gurbani, and I keep on showing you it is. Stop repeating the same things over and over again. 75% of Sikhi is Dilgeer's idea? Please.... If you know better,,,,what phrase am I looking for...oh yeah, the one you used,,"answer to the questions and stick to the point". I have asked you a couple of times in this thread. WHERE IS SAHIB written? I HAVE SHOWN YOU SRI, DEV, and many more! Where is Sahib, please show it even ONCE attached to the Gurus name. Next you're going to say "don't even write Sahib", "don't even write Guru", "write Professor", "write doctor". LOL.

http://www.<banned>.com/?p=3818 These Missionary/Kala Afghana/Guru Granth Da Khalsa Panth people need to stop being so anti Hindu. They are so anti-hindu that they stretch things so far and bend over backwards so much that it's like a comedy show going on. They need to get a checkup on their mental health. Don't they know that milk represents many different things? Milk represents purity and cleanliness. Milk comes from cows, which are peaceful animals for the most part. Milk is viewed as a valuable product, especially in India where poverty is almost everywhere. Especially in the olden days, I'm pretty sure it wasn't available to everyone. Milk is a sign of royalty/special treatment. Milk is also used to bathe. Egyptian queens bathed in milk for example. Some woman do so to this day as well once in a while. Some woman wash their face with milk daily. etc, etc, etc. The Darbar Sahib floors are marble if I am not mistaken. Some people say use milk to clean marble, some say don't. Some say milk is acidic, some say it's not. Here is some quick links I pulled up: http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg042321386750.html http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/articles/c/cleaning-marble/ http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=34813 http://www.designsponge.com/2013/01/before-after-cleaning-and-restoring-marble.html http://chemistry.about.com/od/foodchemistryfaqs/a/Is-Milk-An-Acid-Or-A-Base.htm For people who claim to want to stay as far away as possible to Charitropakhiaan, I can understand from analyzing their mentality why they would want to stay away from it. Like come on guys... it's milk. Can't you think of anything else other than Shiv Ji's semen? They can't even logically think about milk. No wonder they can't even read Charitropakhiaan with a straight mind.

What are you talking about? You ran out of excuses. Every point I brought up with logical and sensible proof. Up till now you appreciated what I said, and now that I put further proof, you're getting all mad. LOL, please, have some consistency. For example, you said: And you're telling me to look with a broader mind? I'm the one who read the whole article, analyzed it, put hours of research into it. I read every one of everyone's posts word-for-word in this thread. I really don't know what kind of open mind you're talking about. I read what Dilgeer had to say, what you said, what everyone else said. And I answered it. You just ran out of excuses each and every time. And now with my most recent post, it seems as though you have hit a dead end, especially with the Guru RamDas Sodhi argument. That's why you're so mad now. I gave some sort of evidence/proof in every one of my posts. Give me a break, don't be a sore loser. I understand that Dilgeer is your role model and everything, but come on, you can do better than that. And you're right, I can't stand Dilgeer. He's a liar, a hypocrite, 2 faced and much more. If you ever critically analyzed his literature, you would know. But I guess you didn't, because you're blinded by his sweet-talk. For the record, he used to be alright...but for the past 10 years or so, he's done a complete U-Turn in terms of his stance on most subjects in Sikhi. His literature is proof of that. I will save that for another topic. Let's stick to the point in this thread.

He will be at 2 Gurdwaras, one is Dashmesh Darbar in Surrey as you have stated, and the other one is Singh Sabha in Surrey as well if I'm not mistaken. Dhunda has already started in Vancouver if I'm not mistaken, and I heard he's there till the 19th and maybe making his way for Toronto (Ontario) after. Singh Sabha is very familiar with the missionaries as they just recently had this following notice: "Bhai Paramjeet Singh Uttarakhand (Kathavachak) 1/1/1 Bhai Paramjeet Singh Uttarakhand (Kathavachak)coming to Singh Sabha Surrey first time in Jan 17/13" He was there till Feb 10, 2013. So that means Dhunda most likely started yesterday (Feb 11, 2013). Paramjeet Uttarakhand is very similar to Dhunda in terms of Katha style, voice, and body (slim, similar turban style, young, black beard). Dashmesh Darbar Surrey recently had "Bhai Lakhwinder Singh Damdami Taksal" for Katha. So, that Gurdwara seems to be all over the place like many other committees around the world. On one hand you call a Damdami Taksal parchaarak, and then a little while later you call a missionary. http://singhsabhasurrey.com/home http://www.dasmeshdarbar.ca/

Many people do say Guru RamDas Sodhi. But they even go a step further and say Dhan Dhan Sri Guru RamDas Sahib Jee Sodhi Sultaan. Many raagis say Sodhi Sultaan out of love. If you don't believe me, watch/listen to Keertan from Darbar Sahib, there are some examples of this. Usually it is said at the beginning of the Raagi's Keertan turn, while praising Guru Sahib. After searching for an example, I found one. Here is an amazing group. Bhai Jagtar Singh Jee and Jatha. Again, I don't know why you want to remove Dev completely. If someone wants to say Dev, it's fine. If you want to use Sahib instead, go for it. If someone wants to use both, that's great too. If someone doesn't want to use either, then that's their choice. But to say one is "wrong" and the other is "right" is very hypocritical and to go out of the way and make this some sort of major issue is very silly. Dilgeer clearly says that Dev and Sri are wrong and that it should be Sahib. Yet there is nowhere in Guru Granth Sahib Jee where it says Guru Nanak Sahib. Even Bhai Gurdas Jee's Vaars, where does it say Sahib right after Guru Sahib's name? Nowhere most likely. Sahib (just like Dev, Sri, etc) is used for praise. This whole thing is a silly argument by Dilgeer. How are we biased and not giving praise to the other forms of Guru Jee? Every body/name gets utmost respect. Every Gurpurab is celebrated at Darbar Sahib, the other Takhats and main Gurdwaras. Now, just because your local Gurdwara or local Sangat might not show the same amount of affection and love, doesn't mean that it's like that everywhere. Again, it's a non-issue. You will find Gurdwaras with Dev, Sahib, Shah, etc in their titles. Check out this for an eye-opener. There is Gurdwara Baba Nanak Shah and Sri Guru Nanak Sahib Darbar. http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/70415-save-the-historical-gurdwaras-and-temples-of-punjab-pakistan/ https://www.facebook.com/savethegurdwaras These are just two examples of many. Once again, there is no issue. People will say whatever according to their upbringing, environment, culture, traditions, languages, etc. Dhan Dhan Baba Nanak Shah Faqir. Hindu Ka Guru, Musalman Ka Pir. :smile2:

About Guru AmarDaas Jee, I wrote about that in my first reply in this topic. "We are so habitual using Dev that we now can't replace it with Sahib." What is your problem with Dev and why are you so focused on REPLACING it with Sahib? No one is coming out and writing articles saying why you say Sahib. I don't know why you want to change Dev somewhat permanently. From Guru Nanak Dev Jee's birth till now, people have called the Gurus using many different methods. For example. Just their name alone: Angad, Nanak, etc. Part of their full name: Amar (instead of AmarDaas). Their name + Guru: Guru Nanak Their name + Guru + Respect: Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Baba Nanak Dev Sahib Jeeo Maharaj :smile2: (you got a problem with that? Then keep it to yourself, because people can praise the Gurus as much as they want. Trying to create debates and arguements that some words should be eliminated and some should replace others it hypocritical. Sahib and Dev are equally good. But it has been proven again and again that Dev is attached to Guru Nanak in many cases throughout Gurbani and history). It's fully hypocritical of Dilgeer to say that Sri and Dev is wrong, and that Sahib is correct. Please show me anywhere is Guru Granth Sahib Jee or Bhai Gurdaas Jee vaars or anything from that timeframe where the word Sahib is attatched to the Gurus? Unless your agenda is that there is nothing like that, so in the future you will say that we shouldn't say Sahib either. Then one day you will say that we shouldn't say Guru either. One can see through Dilgeer + followers agenda.

Also, as I said earlier in the discussion that Dev and Deo are the same. It is further proved by my previous post: ਗੂਜਰੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ ਕੇ ਪਦੇ ਘਰੁ ੧ ਆਸਾ ਬਾਣੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਜੀ ਕੀ Guru Nanak Dev Guru Nanak Deo they are and mean the exact same thing, just different pronunciations.

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਜਯੋ ਜਯ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਤੈ ਹਰਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਇਯਉ ॥੧॥ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵਿ ਅਲਖ ਗਤਿ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮਦਾਸੁ ਤਾਰਣ ਤਰਣੰ ॥੧॥ ਤਿਨਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮਦਾਸੁ ਸੋਢੀ ਥਿਰੁ ਥਪ੍ਯ੍ਯਉ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦ ਭਗਤ ਉਧਰੀਅੰ ॥ ਸਵਯੇ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਬਾਕ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮਚੰਦ ਜਿਸੁ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਰੇਖਿਆ ॥ ਜਹ ਖੇਲੈ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਾਰਾਇਨਾ ॥੩॥ ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀਉ ਕੀ ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਤਥਾ ਸਭਨਾ ਭਗਤਾ ਕੀ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਸੈਣੁ ॥ ਗੂਜਰੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਜੈਦੇਵ ਜੀਉ ਕਾ ਪਦਾ ਘਰੁ ੪ ਗੂਜਰੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਤ੍ਰਿਲੋਚਨ ਜੀਉ ਕੇ ਪਦੇ ਘਰੁ ੧ ਗੂਜਰੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀ ਕੇ ਪਦੇ ਘਰੁ ੩ ਗੂਜਰੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ ਕੇ ਪਦੇ ਘਰੁ ੧ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕਾ ਚਉਪਦਾ ਘਰੁ ੨ ਦੂਜਾ ॥ ਆਸਾ ਬਾਣੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀਉ ਕੀ ਆਸਾ ਬਾਣੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਆਸਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕੇ ਦੁਪਦੇ ਆਸਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕੇ ਤਿਪਦੇ ੮ ਦੁਤੁਕੇ ੭ ਇਕਤੁਕਾ ੧ ਆਸਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕੇ ਪੰਚਪਦੇ ੯ ਦੁਤੁਕੇ ੫ ਆਸਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕੇ ਚਉਪਦੇ ਇਕਤੁਕੇ ॥ ਆਸਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ॥ ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕੇ ਚਉਪਦੇ ੧੪ ॥

When you have this much descriptive praise for Guru Gobind Singh Jee, these is really no need left to put the word 'Dev' in there. Simply saying "Guru Gobind SIngh" says it all :smile2: . 1. http://www.searchgurbani.com/amrit_keertan/shabad/2124/sathigur_purakh_aganm_hai_niravair_nirala/line/8 2. http://www.searchgurbani.com/amrit_keertan/shabad/850/har_suuche_thukhuth_ruchaaei-aa_sath_sungath_melaa_u/line/14 3. http://www.searchgurbani.com/amrit_keertan/shabad/1880/praan_meeth_purumaathumaa_purukhothum_pooraa_u/line/4 4. http://www.searchgurbani.com/amrit_keertan/shabad/1797/ouh_gur_gobindh_hue_prugati-aa_dhusuve_avuthaaraa_u/line/7 5. http://www.searchgurbani.com/amrit_keertan/shabad/695/gurubur_akaal_ke_hukum_so_oupajiou_bigi-aanaa_u/line/44 6. http://www.searchgurbani.com/amrit_keertan/shabad/968/jaage_singh_buluvunth_beer_subh_dhusut_khupaaee_u/line/10 7. http://www.searchgurbani.com/amrit_keertan/shabad/1738/nij_futhe_bulaa-ee_sathiguroo_keeno_oujee-aaraa_u/line/11 8. http://www.searchgurbani.com/amrit_keertan/shabad/2468/vehi_oupajiou_chelaa_murudh_kaa_murudhaan_sudhaaee_u/line/25 9. http://www.searchgurbani.com/amrit_keertan/shabad/1785/ouankaar_akaar_aap_hai_hosee_bhee_aapai/line/19 10. http://www.searchgurbani.com/amrit_keertan/shabad/1721/naasuro_munusoor_gur_gobindh_singh/line/1

28 examples from Bhai Gurdaas Jee. There are many more from him, it would take me much longer to post them all. 1 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6481 2 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6490 3 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6515 4 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6516 5 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6553 6 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6559 7 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6589 8 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6615 9 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6671 10 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6693 11 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6695 12 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6714 13 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6728 14 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6759 15 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6761 16 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6768 17 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6789 18 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6797 19 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6830 20 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6837 21 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6853 22 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6873 23 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6892 24 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6897 25 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6924 26 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6948 27 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6975 28 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6977

I don't know why you put "Sahib" in bold, as if you are trying to prove some point that 'Sahib' is "correct". Let me explain some more. Look at what Dilgeer wrote: That whole sentence is hypocritical and wrong. Sri/Shri is very much accepted. You will find it used at MANY PLACES throughout Sikh literature/scriptures. The following alone is over 90 references from Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Don't even get me started on references from Bhai Gurdas Jee, Dasam Granth, Sarbloh Granth, and other literature/scriptures. Please read these 90+ references to get a full understanding of how totally wrong "Dr." Dilgeer is and how manipulative his article is in terms of taking advantage of those who do not research and explore Sikhi fully. It is very hypocritical to keep on promoting "Sahib" while saying Shri/Shri, Dev, Deo, Dhan, Baba, Jee, Jeeo, Maharaj, etc are wrong. They are not wrong. They are all acceptable. Let's stop being anti-sanscrit, anti-hindi, anti-brij language, etc etc etc. Just because many words have a Hindu/Hinduism background doesn't make those words wrong or bad in any way. Let's keep an open mind, unlike Dilgeer. ਪੰਨਾ 29, ਸਤਰ 10 ਸ੍ਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 36, ਸਤਰ 3 ਸ੍ਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 44, ਸਤਰ 11 ਸ੍ਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 44, ਸਤਰ 18 ਸ੍ਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 80, ਸਤਰ 1 ਪੁਰਬੇ ਕਮਾਏ ਸ੍ਰੀਰੰਗ ਪਾਏ ਹਰਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਚਿਰੀ ਵਿਛੁੰਨਿਆ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 80, ਸਤਰ 4 ਸ੍ਰੀਧਰ ਪਾਏ ਮੰਗਲ ਗਾਏ ਇਛ ਪੁੰਨੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਤੁਠੇ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 83, ਸਤਰ 2 ਰਾਗਾ ਵਿਚਿ ਸ੍ਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਹੈ ਜੇ ਸਚਿ ਧਰੇ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 92, ਸਤਰ 14 ਸ੍ਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕਾ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 93, ਸਤਰ 1 ਸ੍ਰੀਰਾਗ ਬਾਣੀ ਭਗਤ ਬੇਣੀ ਜੀਉ ਕੀ ॥ ਪਹਰਿਆ ਕੈ ਘਰਿ ਗਾਵਣਾ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 155, ਸਤਰ 11 ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਾ ਉਚਰੁ ਮਨਾ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 247, ਸਤਰ 8 ਪੁਰਖੋ ਬਿਧਾਤਾ ਏਕੁ ਸ੍ਰੀਧਰੁ ਕਿਉ ਮਿਲਹ ਤੁਝੈ ਉਡੀਣੀਆ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 248, ਸਤਰ 16 ਦੁਖਹਰਣ ਦੀਨ ਸਰਣ ਸ੍ਰੀਧਰ ਚਰਨ ਕਮਲ ਅਰਾਧੀਐ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 248, ਸਤਰ 19 ਸ੍ਰੀਰੰਗੋ ਦਇਆਲ ਮਨੋਹਰੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਵਛਲੁ ਬਿਰਦਾਇਆ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 262, ਸਤਰ 9 ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰਦੇਵਏ ਨਮਹ ॥੧॥ ਪੰਨਾ 323, ਸਤਰ 12 ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕੇ ਚਉਪਦੇ ੧੪ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 326, ਸਤਰ 11 ਮੁਆ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਰਮਤ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮੈ ॥੫॥੧੫॥ ਪੰਨਾ 359, ਸਤਰ 11 ਧੀਰਜੁ ਧੜੀ ਬੰਧਾਵੈ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਸ੍ਰੀਰੰਗੁ ਸੁਰਮਾ ਦੇਈ ॥੩॥ ਪੰਨਾ 436, ਸਤਰ 8 ਕਰਣ ਕਾਰਣ ਸਮਰਥ ਸ੍ਰੀਧਰ ਆਪਿ ਕਾਰਜੁ ਸਾਰਏ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 459, ਸਤਰ 11 ਬਿਨਵੰਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਿਲੇ ਸ੍ਰੀਧਰ ਸਗਲ ਆਨੰਦ ਰਸੁ ਬਣਿਆ ॥੨॥ ਪੰਨਾ 462, ਸਤਰ 6 ਸ੍ਰੀਰੰਗ ਰਾਤੇ ਨਾਮ ਮਾਤੇ ਭੈ ਭਰਮ ਦੁਤੀਆ ਸਗਲ ਖੋਤ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 462, ਸਤਰ 15 ਬਿਨਵੰਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਮੇਰੀ ਆਸ ਪੂਰਨ ਮਿਲੇ ਸ੍ਰੀਧਰ ਗੁਣ ਨਿਧਾਨ ॥੪॥੧॥੧੪॥ ਪੰਨਾ 475, ਸਤਰ 13 ਆਸਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 478, ਸਤਰ 6 ਆਸਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕੇ ਚਉਪਦੇ ਇਕਤੁਕੇ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 479, ਸਤਰ 4 ਆਸਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕੇ ਪੰਚਪਦੇ ੯ ਦੁਤੁਕੇ ੫ ਪੰਨਾ 481, ਸਤਰ 15 ਆਸਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕੇ ਤਿਪਦੇ ੮ ਦੁਤੁਕੇ ੭ ਇਕਤੁਕਾ ੧ ਪੰਨਾ 483, ਸਤਰ 12 ਆਸਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕੇ ਦੁਪਦੇ ਪੰਨਾ 485, ਸਤਰ 1 ਆਸਾ ਬਾਣੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਪੰਨਾ 486, ਸਤਰ 5 ਆਸਾ ਬਾਣੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀਉ ਕੀ ਪੰਨਾ 501, ਸਤਰ 6 ਕਰਣ ਕਾਰਣ ਸੰਮ੍ਰਥ ਸ੍ਰੀਧਰ ਸਰਣਿ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਗਹੀ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 502, ਸਤਰ 14 ਆਰਾਧਿ ਸ੍ਰੀਧਰ ਸਫਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਕਰਣ ਕਾਰਣ ਜੋਗੁ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 508, ਸਤਰ 10 ਖਲ ਮੁਗਧ ਮੂੜ ਕਟਾਖ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਸ੍ਰੀਧਰ ਭਏ ਗੁਣ ਮਤਿ ਧੀਰ ॥੬॥ ਪੰਨਾ 524, ਸਤਰ 8 ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਕਾ ਚਉਪਦਾ ਘਰੁ ੨ ਦੂਜਾ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 525, ਸਤਰ 1 ਗੂਜਰੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਾਮਦੇਵ ਜੀ ਕੇ ਪਦੇ ਘਰੁ ੧ ਪੰਨਾ 525, ਸਤਰ 10 ਗੂਜਰੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀ ਕੇ ਪਦੇ ਘਰੁ ੩ ਪੰਨਾ 525, ਸਤਰ 16 ਗੂਜਰੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਤ੍ਰਿਲੋਚਨ ਜੀਉ ਕੇ ਪਦੇ ਘਰੁ ੧ ਪੰਨਾ 526, ਸਤਰ 12 ਗੂਜਰੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਜੈਦੇਵ ਜੀਉ ਕਾ ਪਦਾ ਘਰੁ ੪ ਪੰਨਾ 544, ਸਤਰ 16 ਹਰਿ ਕੰਤ ਅਨੰਤ ਦਇਆਲ ਸ੍ਰੀਧਰ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਪਤਿਤ ਉਧਾਰਣੋ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 546, ਸਤਰ 4 ਬਿਨਵੰਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਮੇਰੀ ਇਛ ਪੂਰਨ ਮਿਲੇ ਸ੍ਰੀਰੰਗ ਰਾਮਾ ॥੩॥ ਪੰਨਾ 567, ਸਤਰ 13 ਸ੍ਰੀਰੰਗ ਰਾਤੀ ਫਿਰੈ ਮਾਤੀ ਉਦਕੁ ਗੰਗਾ ਵਾਣੀ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 695, ਸਤਰ 9 ਸ੍ਰੀ ਸੈਣੁ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 705, ਸਤਰ 13 ਸ੍ਰੀਰਾਮ ਰੰਗ ਅਪਾਰ ਪੂਰਨ ਨਹ ਨਿਮਖ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਵੂਠਿਆ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 705, ਸਤਰ 15 ਮਿਲਿ ਸਾਧਸੰਗੇ ਭਜੇ ਸ੍ਰੀਧਰ ਕਰਿ ਅੰਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਜੀ ਤਾਰਿਆ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 792, ਸਤਰ 6 ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀਉ ਤਥਾ ਸਭਨਾ ਭਗਤਾ ਕੀ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 793, ਸਤਰ 13 ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਜੀਉ ਕੀ ਪੰਨਾ 843, ਸਤਰ 11 ਸ੍ਰੀਧਰ ਮੋਹਿਅੜੀ ਪਿਰ ਸੰਗਿ ਸੂਤੀ ਰਾਮ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 848, ਸਤਰ 6 ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੋਪਾਲੁ ਨ ਉਚਰਹਿ ਬਲਿ ਗਈਏ ਦੁਹਚਾਰਣਿ ਰਸਨਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 929, ਸਤਰ 10 ਬਿਨਵੰਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਿਤ ਕਰਹੁ ਰਲੀਆ ਹਰਿ ਮਿਲੇ ਸ੍ਰੀਧਰ ਕੰਤ ਜੀਉ ॥੭॥ ਪੰਨਾ 929, ਸਤਰ 15 ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਗੁਣ ਨਿਧਿ ਸ੍ਰੀਰੰਗ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਆਦਿ ਕਉ ਆਦੇਸੁ ਜੀਉ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 988, ਸਤਰ 12 ਜਹ ਖੇਲੈ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਾਰਾਇਨਾ ॥੩॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1082, ਸਤਰ 9 ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮਚੰਦ ਜਿਸੁ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਰੇਖਿਆ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1082, ਸਤਰ 14 ਸ੍ਰੀਰੰਗ ਬੈਕੁੰਠ ਕੇ ਵਾਸੀ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1105, ਸਤਰ 2 ਹਸਤੀ ਦੇਖਿ ਭਰਮ ਤੇ ਭੂਲਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਵਾਨੁ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1117, ਸਤਰ 3 ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਸਭਨੀ ਸਹੀ ਕੀਤਾ ਸੁਕਿ ਪ੍ਰਹਿਲਾਦਿ ਸ੍ਰੀਰਾਮਿ ਕਰਿ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਵਿਦੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1138, ਸਤਰ 16 ਸ੍ਰੀਧਰ ਮੋਹਨ ਸਗਲ ਉਪਾਵਨ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਸੁਖਦਾਤਾ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1162, ਸਤਰ 10 ਜਿਹ ਪਉੜ੍ਹ੍ਹੇ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੋਪਾਲ ॥੨॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1162, ਸਤਰ 12 ਜਹ ਪਉੜੇ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਕਮਲਾ ਕੰਤ ॥੪॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1163, ਸਤਰ 11 ਜਾਮਿ ਨ ਉਚਰਸਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ॥੧॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1164, ਸਤਰ 4 ਨਾਮੇ ਸ੍ਰੀਰੰਗੁ ਭੇਟਲ ਸੋਈ ॥੪॥੪॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1194, ਸਤਰ 7 ਮੇਰੀ ਪਟੀਆ ਲਿਖਿ ਦੇਹੁ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੋਪਾਲ ॥੧॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1201, ਸਤਰ 1 ਜਪਿ ਮਨ ਨਰਹਰੇ ਨਰਹਰ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਹਰਿ ਸਗਲ ਦੇਵ ਦੇਵਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਾ ਹਰਿ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਮੁ ਮੋਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1201, ਸਤਰ 9 ਜਪਿ ਮਨ ਮਾਧੋ ਮਧੁਸੂਦਨੋ ਹਰਿ ਸ੍ਰੀਰੰਗੋ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੋ ਸਤਿ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਅੰਤਰਜਾਮੀ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1232, ਸਤਰ 7 ਸ੍ਰੀਧਰ ਨਾਥ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਲੀਨਾ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਜਾਨੈ ਪੀਰ ਪਰਾਈ ॥੧॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1265, ਸਤਰ 14 ਹਰਿ ਜਨ ਬੋਲਤ ਸ੍ਰੀਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਾ ਮਿਲਿ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਹਰਿ ਤੋਰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1292, ਸਤਰ 4 ਸੁ ਐਸਾ ਰਾਜਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਰਹਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1292, ਸਤਰ 7 ਸੁ ਐਸਾ ਰਾਜਾ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੋਪਾਲੁ ॥੨॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1314, ਸਤਰ 3 ਸਭਿ ਬੋਲਹੁ ਰਾਮ ਰਮੋ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮ ਰਮੋ ਜਿਤੁ ਦਾਲਦੁ ਦੁਖ ਭੁਖ ਸਭ ਲਹਿ ਜਾਵਣੀ ॥੩॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1321, ਸਤਰ 10 ਤੇ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਜਿਨ ਸ੍ਰੀਰਾਮੁ ਧਿਆਇਆ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੁਕੰਦੇ ॥੧॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1353, ਸਤਰ 14 ਆਤਮੰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਬਾਸ੍ਵਦੇਵਸ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਜੇ ਕੋਈ ਜਾਨਸਿ ਭੇਵ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1363, ਸਤਰ 1 ਨਾਨਕ ਇਕੁ ਸ੍ਰੀਧਰ ਨਾਥੁ ਜਿ ਟੂਟੇ ਲੇਇ ਸਾਂਠਿ ॥੧੫॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1385, ਸਤਰ 3 ਸਵਯੇ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਬਾਕ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1387, ਸਤਰ 3 ਸਵਯੇ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਮੁਖਬਾਕ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਪੰਨਾ 1388, ਸਤਰ 5 ਸ੍ਰੀਪਤਿ ਨਾਥ ਸਰਣਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਨ ਹੇ ਭਗਵੰਤ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰਿ ਤਾਰਹੁ ॥੫॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1390, ਸਤਰ 10 ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਰਾਜੁ ਅਬਿਚਲੁ ਅਟਲੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖਿ ਫੁਰਮਾਇਓ ॥੭॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1398, ਸਤਰ 6 ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਰਣਿ ਭਜੁ ਕਲ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਕਬਿ ਭੁਗਤਿ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਸਭ ਗੁਰੂ ਲਗਿ ॥੧੧॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1399, ਸਤਰ 5 ਗੁਰ ਅਮਰੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਸਤਿ ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਰਾਖੀ ਪਤਿ ਅਘਨ ਦੇਖਤ ਗਤੁ ਚਰਨ ਕਵਲ ਜਾਸ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1399, ਸਤਰ 12 ਕਾਠਹੁ ਸ੍ਰੀਖੰਡ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਕੀਅਉ ਦੁਖ ਦਰਿਦ੍ਰ ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਗਇਅ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1400, ਸਤਰ 11 ਸ੍ਰੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸੁਪ੍ਰਸੰਨ ਕਲਜੁਗ ਹੋਇ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਦਾਸ ਭਾਟ ਕੀ ਲਾਜ ॥੮॥੧੨॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1401, ਸਤਰ 9 ਸ੍ਰੀ ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦ ਭਗਤ ਉਧਰੀਅੰ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1401, ਸਤਰ 13 ਤਿਨਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮਦਾਸੁ ਸੋਢੀ ਥਿਰੁ ਥਪ੍ਯ੍ਯਉ ॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1401, ਸਤਰ 16 ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵਿ ਅਲਖ ਗਤਿ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮਦਾਸੁ ਤਾਰਣ ਤਰਣੰ ॥੧॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1402, ਸਤਰ 1 ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵਿ ਅਲਖ ਗਤਿ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮਦਾਸੁ ਤਾਰਣ ਤਰਣੰ ॥੨॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1402, ਸਤਰ 4 ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵਿ ਅਲਖ ਗਤਿ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮਦਾਸੁ ਤਾਰਣ ਤਰਣੰ ॥੩॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1402, ਸਤਰ 8 ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਸੇਵਿ ਅਲਖ ਗਤਿ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਰਾਮਦਾਸੁ ਤਾਰਣ ਤਰਣੰ ॥੪॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1402, ਸਤਰ 14 ਸਤਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸਦਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੧॥੬॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1402, ਸਤਰ 18 ਸਤਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸਦਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੨॥੭॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1403, ਸਤਰ 2 ਸਤਿ ਸਾਚੁ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਨਿਵਾਸੁ ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸਦਾ ਤੁਹੀ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਵਾਹਿ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥੮॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1404, ਸਤਰ 5 ਸ੍ਰੀ ਸਤਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਗੁਰ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਚਿਤਹ ਬਸੈ ॥੧॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1405, ਸਤਰ 6 ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਜਯੋ ਜਯ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਤੈ ਹਰਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਇਯਉ ॥੧॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1405, ਸਤਰ 9 ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਜਯੋ ਜਯ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਤੈ ਹਰਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਇਯਉ ॥੨॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1405, ਸਤਰ 12 ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਜਯੋ ਜਯ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਤੈ ਹਰਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਇਯਉ ॥੩॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1405, ਸਤਰ 14 ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰ ਰਾਮਦਾਸ ਜਯੋ ਜਯ ਜਗ ਮਹਿ ਤੈ ਹਰਿ ਪਰਮ ਪਦੁ ਪਾਇਯਉ ॥੪॥ ਪੰਨਾ 1409, ਸਤਰ 15 ਹਰਿਬੰਸ ਜਗਤਿ ਜਸੁ ਸੰਚਰ੍ਯ੍ਯਉ ਸੁ ਕਵਣੁ ਕਹੈ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਮੁਯਉ ॥੧॥

Did you even read my first reply on the first page of this thread? Please read it again. Dilgeer is clearly exposed and is lying again and again. Like I said before, Dilgeer just listed a bunch of literature which he knows that no one is going to go and thoroughly read. It is clearly evident from his clever editing of Prof./Principal Sahib Singh Jee's work. Again, I don't think you read what I say or post. All you keep on doing is turning a blind eye and keep on asking questions. You just want people to keep on answering so that at one point they can make a mistake or slip. And at that moment you will jump in to completely discredit that person. Keep it real. Isn't Guru Granth Sahib Jee enough proof for you? http://postimage.org/image/3oq41at7h/ After Guru Granth Sahib Jee, the next ranked piece of literature and Bani is that of Bhai Gurdaas Jee. Forget ਭੱਟ ਵਹੀਆਂ’, ਪਾਂਡਾ ਵਹੀਆਂ, ਸੈਨਾਪਤੀ, ਕੋਇਰ ਸਿੰਘ, ਕੇਸਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਛਿੱਬਰ, ਸ੍ਵਰੂਪ ਸਿੰਘ ਕੌਸ਼ਿਸ਼, ਰਤਨ ਸਿੰਘ ਭੰਗੂ, ਸੁਖਬਾਸੀ ਰਾਮ ਬੇਦੀ ਅਤੇ ਹੋਰ ਲੇਖਕ. Forget ਵਲਾਇਤ ਵਾਲੀ ਜਨਮਸਾਖੀ, ਮਿਹਰਬਾਨ ਵਾਲੀ ਜਨਮਸਾਖੀ, ਭਾਈ ਬਾਲੇ ਵਾਲੀ ਜਨਮਸਾਖੀ, ਭਾਈ ਮਨੀ ਸਿੰਘ ਦੇ ਨਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਜੋੜੀ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਜਨਮਸਾਖੀ (look how cleverly Dilgeer writes that), ਪੁਰਾਤਨ ਜਨਮਸਾਖੀ. Forget ਕੜਖੇ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹ ਦਸਵੇਂ ਕੇ (ਸੈਣ ਸਿੰਘ), ਪਉੜੀਆਂ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਕੀਆਂ (ਮੀਰ ਮੁਸ਼ਕੀ ਤੇ ਛਬੀਲਾ), ਜੁਧ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਕਾ (ਅਣੀ ਰਾਇ), ਵਾਰ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ ਦਸਵੀਂ ਕੀ (ਅਗਿਆਤ), ਵਾਰ ਭੇੜੇ ਕੀ ਪਾਤਸ਼ਾਹੀ ਦਸ (ਅਗਿਆਤ), ਵਾਰ ਭੰਗਾਣੀ ਕੀ (ਅਗਿਆਤ), ਜੁੱਧ-ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ ਕਾ (ਵੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਬੱਲ), ਵਾਰ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ ਕੀ (ਦਰਸ਼ਨ ਭਗਤ), ਵਾਰ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਕੀ (ਅਗਿਆਤ)ਵਾਰ ਕਲਿਆਨ ਕੀ (ਖ਼ੁਸ਼ਹਾਲ ਚੰਦ). Forget all of these lists that Dilgeer keeps on making up. Bhai Gurdaas Jee's work is arguably first and foremost after Guru Granth Sahib Jee. http://sikhitothemax...p?ShabadID=6409 http://sikhitothemax...p?ShabadID=6411 http://sikhitothemax...p?ShabadID=5621 http://sikhitothemax...p?ShabadID=5855 http://sikhitothemax...p?ShabadID=5983 http://sikhitothemax...p?ShabadID=6067 http://sikhitothemax...p?ShabadID=6090 http://sikhitothemax...p?ShabadID=5611 http://sikhitothemax...p?ShabadID=6482 It's really simple. Like I said before. Nanak is the name of the body. Guru is the Jot/Thought process/Mindset/Teachings/Way of Life. Hence Guru + Nanak = Guru Nanak. Out of respect we say Jee, Jeeo, Sahib, Dev, Deo, Maharaj, Dhan, Baba, etc... It's such a simple concept, I don't know what is such a big deal? It's a non-issue. Just because Dev has to do with Hindi and Hindus doesn't change/mean anything. If you do a little research you would find out that Guru Nanak Dev Jee was also called MANY OTHER NAMES at the VARIOUS PLACES he went to DURING HIS LIFETIME (so you can throw Dilgeer's big list out of the window). https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B39vxC8IGIWFbTlST1ctX2psdEk/edit?pli=1 Some called him Nanak. Some called him Guru Nanak. Some called him Baba Nanak. Some called him Guru Nanak Dev. Some called him Nanak Deo. Some called him Nanak Shah. Some called him Baba Nanak Shah. Some called him Baba Nanak Shah Fakir/Faqir. Some called him Baba Nanak Fakir/Faqir. Some called him Hazrat Rab Majid Baba Nanak Fakir/Faqir. Some called him Jehangir jaman hind lat abd al majid Nanak meaning "The Lord of the time, resident of India, Nanak – the man of God’. Some called him Pir (Peer). Some called him Hindu Guru Nanak To (Tau) Fakir Balol. Some called him Murshid. Some called him Hazrat Nanak. etc, etc, etc Guru Nanak Dev Jee travelled to many places in his life and was most certainly called by many different names/titles by many different people. If you read my first post you would understand. Hence Dev, Deo, etc. Just because DEV and DEO have a Hindu/Hinduism background/root, does not mean or change anything. Dev and Deo are no different than Sahib. Dilgeer is a hypocrit and a liar who wrote that article to try and advance his agenda. Dilgeer said "ਉਂਞ ਸਾਡੀ ਕੌਮ ਦੇ ਲੇਖਕਾਂ ਦੀ ਇਹ ‘ਸਿਫ਼ਤ’ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਅੱਖਾਂ ਮੀਟ ਕੇ ਮੱਖੀ ’ਤੇ ਮੱਖੀ ਮਾਰੀ ਜਾਣਗੇ ਪਰ ਜਦੋਂ ਕੋਈ ਗ਼ਲਤੀ ਵੱਲ ਇਸ਼ਾਰਾ ਕਰੇਗਾ ਤਾਂ ਆਖ ਦੇਣਗੇ: "ਛੱਡੋ ਪਰਾਂ!" "ਤਾਂ ਕੀ ਹੈ?" "ਹੁਣ ਤਾਂ ਬਹੁਤ ਕਿਤਾਬਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਆ ਚੁੱਕਾ ਹੈ", ਵਗੈਰਾ". Maybe he should open his eyes first before telling anyone else that theirs' are closed. And maybe you should open your eyes to read/understand the evidence and material I am putting in front of you.

Thank you very much!

http://postimage.org/image/3oq41at7h/ Someone please post that image in here (and explain to me how to do it for the future as well).

Whose explanation seems like hearsay, madeup theories and you're not conviced by? Dilgeer's or mine?

Let me attempt to explain this in some detail. Please bear with me. First of all, what a hypocrit. He himself keeps on saying "ਗੁਰੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਾਹਿਬ", "ਗੁਰੂ ਅੰਗਦ ਸਾਹਿਬ" and "ਗੁਰੂ ਅਰਜਨ ਸਾਹਿਬ". The key word there is what? "ਸਾਹਿਬ". Why is he adding Sahib? Is it written anywhere in Guru Granth Sahib Jee? is Guru Nanak SAHIB written? Nope. Then if he can add the word Sahib out of respect, then why can't someone else add the word Sri (or Shri) or Maharaj, etc? Purely hypocritical on Dilgeer's part. You see the trend, this whole "Guru Granth Da Panth". Once you start basing every little thing on Guru Granth Sahib Jee, then you might as well change more than 75% of Sikhi today. That's what they want to do. They want to limit your mind to Guru Granth Sahib Jee and not have you read anything else. However in this case, it seems like Dilgeer can't even read Guru Granth Sahib himself properly, let alone understand it. Now before going into it, here is some background. It's a very simple concept. When Guru Sahibs would go around for parchaar (far and wide), they would adjust their parchaar based on the type of people they were intereacting and communicating with. The way they would speak would change as the congregation changed. Guru Sahibs spoke many different languages and within those languages are common words. And within each individual languages are different way of pronouncing words based on ones upbringing and lineage/ancesttry. For example, within Punjabi, Hindi and Urdu are many very commonly shared words, and sometimes they are pronounced slightly different depending on which language you speak. Also, within individual languages there are different pronounciations of specific words. For example, let's take the Punjabi language. You must have in your life at one point heard someone speaking Punjabi slightly different than yourself and pronounce common words slightly different than yourself as well. Well that is most likely because they are from a different area, a different upbringing, or a different caste. Yes I said it. Caste. Even though we don't "believe" in it, it still does make a big difference in one's upbringing and one's experience through family traditions and lifestyle. From how we speak, dress, eat, etc. It all gets affected with caste/lineage. Now, Guru Granth Sahib Jee is the best example of all of this. There is Gurdev, Gurdeo, Dev, Deo, Sev and Seo. It all just depends on where you come from and how you are raised. They are just slight differences but mean the same thing. Let us examine closely what Dilgeer said, he is writing alot at once and it can really confuse the reader. In the first half of his article he keeps on pulling out Gurbani tuks and keeps on trying to show where commas or bishraams go. By doing this he sneakily misinterprets lines on purpose. One prime example: (2 side notes. 1. Notice how he puts Sahib in brackets in an attempt to show his respect. 2. See how he is putting in his atheist views by stating this ਉਹ ਗਰਭ-ਜੂਨ ਦੇ ਦੁੱਖਾਂ (ਦੇ ਡਰ) ਵਿਚ ਨਹੀਂ ਆਉਂਦੇ। He made the translation garabh-joon dukh to the fear of death/reincarnation. Typical missionary mindset as they don't believe in reincarnation or any type of mystical concept.) So, in that line, look at how he purposefully misinterprets and mistranslates it. He says that the "Dev" after Arjan goes with "Guru" which is after Dev. Are you kidding me? I'm pretty sure if the writer wanted to call Guru Arjun-Dev Jee "Gurdev", then he would have just done so. Let's stop making up silly theories. And so we are talking about the writer. Who is the writer? Bhatt Mathuraa. And what did all of the Bhatt's do? They praised the Guru's. Bhatt Mathuraa is praising Arjan-Dev who is Guru. I think it's absolutely ridiculous for Dilgeer to say that Dev with Gur AFTER IT means Gurdev and that "Dev" is with Gurdev and not with Guru Arjan-Dev Jee's name. Dilgeer stretches things so far just to try and prove his point that it makes him look silly. So now for this line he again makes the word Nanak alone and has Guru separate and ਦੇਉ separate. That's just stretching it. Same as the last example. That somehow "Guru" is going to skip the word Nanak to attach to ਦੇਉ in order to mean ਗੁਰਦੇਵ. Who wrote this line? Guru Angad Dev Jee. And it is very clear that Guru Angad Dev Jee is praising Guru Nanak Dev Jee in this line. Dilgeer is really just stretching things to try and prove his point. There are other examples of the Guru's praising Guru Nanak Dev Jee and the path which he started. Here are just some examples: http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=3954 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=4232 If you want to go with that philosophy, then how about Guru Amar? Right? Not Guru AmarDaas. Why not? Many times Guru AmarDaas is referred to as "Amar" in Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Read all of Bhatta-Dey-Saveyey, Bhai Gurdaas Jee Vaars and you will see. Now watch, one of the biggest lies in this article. Just by this next point you will realise how much Dilgeer is twisting things for his own agenda. He keeps on pointing out that it's ' ਦੇਉ ' and not ' ਦੇਵ ' written. In this article this is one of his main tactics. But as I pointed out earlier....ALOT of the time, Dev and Deo are the same thing....Gurdev and Gurdeo are the same thing and Sev and Seo are the same thing. Don't get fooled by Dilgeer. And what about Bhai Gurdaas Jee's Vaars? They make it FULLY CLEAR that it is Guru Nanak DEV Jee. http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6409 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6411 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5621 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5855 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5983 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6067 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6090 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5611 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6482 These two Shabads TOTALLY prove the above theory wrong. Oh look, now he's talking about doing ਨਾਂ ਦਾ ਜਾਪ just to try and prove his point when everyone knows that the missionaries don't actually believe in Naam Simran/Abhiaas. http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=6067 http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=4739 What are you going to believe from someone who says the following in his article: Bottom line is this: The Jot is the same. The Jot was Guru. The bodies names were Nanak.....HarRai, Hargobind...etc. Therefore, Jot + Body = Guru Nanak, Guru HarRai, Guru Hargobind. Out of respect we use terms like Sri/Shri, Sahib, Maharaj, Dev, Jee etc. Therefore, Jot + Body + Respect = Guru Nanak Dev Sahib Jeeo Maharaj, etc... It's not a big deal really. These missionaries are just trying to always stir something up and make small little things into bigger things. And also through these types of small little articles they plant their propaganda seeds into the reader's minds which can clearly be seen from Dilgeer's article. As soon as they see the word "Dev" they start getting all offended and uncomfortable and relate it to "Hinduism/RSS/Baabey", the same way they do with Dasam Granth. It's a non-issue. Keep an open mind and read lots of literature. Dilgeer made this list to back up his theory: It's pretty funny, because most of the time these missionaries go against almost all of the Janamsaakhis, yet look at how many he listed. On top of that he listed much more literature. Yet, I doubt he fully researched or read everything from that list word-for-word. He just listed all of that to make himself look credible in my opinion. What a "historian".

Guru Kartaa HarRai!!! :smile2: http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=10064 Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7 Part 8 Enjoy!

Please let this discussion be based on the original topic. If you want to discuss Guru's Titles, then go to this thread: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/70324-gurus-titlesdilgeers-views/ Thanks

This topic was started in another thread ("2013 Calender.."), and it had nothing to do with that thread. So please discuss it here instead. Tony said: gurdeepsinghjohal said: Let us discuss.

Mod Edit: The problem is posting stuff to their website, not exposing them. I'm sorry you took it the wrong way. It's a long post, but just read it...it might be my last on this site. WOW. OMG. I can't believe you guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This has been happening my whole life. I always go towards the Truth and people try to get put down/bully/silence me. It ALWAYS happens to me. That's like my life. I try and do something good or provide some help, and I always get made to look like the bad guy. First of all, there are many in this Forum who have appreciated my posts and have really given me a warm welcome. And now, all of a sudden when things are getting rolling.....there are some users criticizing me for doing what other users on this forum are really appreciating. And it seems like you MODS have taken their side just because they wrote one line whereas I have been writing long posts full of information. Again, just because someone said I'm "PROMOTING", you're editing all of my hard work and deleting it. COME ON. Am I promoting? I told you again and again, I'm not promoting. It's what the truth is. That information has been circulating the net/newspapers/sangat for years....but there are very few people out there with the work ethic or brains to critically think for a second and connect the dots. I posted all of those links to show how much of an impact they are making through articles/media day in and day out. That trash is exactly the only evidence anyone has about what they do. Anytime anyone brings forth anything, their main excuse is that it is "edited". This is evidence. NOT TRASH. Detectives and researchers are more than willing to go and look in the garbage can for clues. Where's your intellect gone now? You got to get your hands a little dirty if you want some progress. Sangat knows their mindset? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? That's why Bhai Pinderpal Singh Jee gets denied from doing Katha in Seattle by the so-called "Sangat" and Dhunda is welcomed with open arms and honoured. Don't even talk about the "Sangat", because I don't think 99% of you know the severity of the situation. Some people on this forum told me that Darshan is not a factor in india or anywhere really and that he's not even a Sikh. Ask that to the so-called "Sangat". He is alive and well. He still goes around the world and is invited specially all the time. His events are always jam packed in Gurdaras around the world no matter how big or small. He is making a major impact. Stop being so closed-minded. You want an intellectual discussion? Well it's not going to be about Sarbloh Bibek, Nitnem, Simran, Rehit, Maryada, Dasam Duar, Anhad Shabad, Amrit Ras, Amrit Vela, Ridhis, Sidhis. 99% of the youth don't even know the names of the 10 Guru's bodies (let alone in the proper order), and you're telling me you want to talk about some "intellectual and intelligent discussion". Get a grip on reality for once and realise that the world doesn't revolve around you. Just because you may be fine in your path of Sikhi, doesn't mean that the other 99% is. The door is WIDE OPEN for missionary/kala-afghana/rss groups to destroy Sikhi. It's no joke. They come on almost every Punjabi tv show, radio program, newspaper, Gurdwara, banquet hall...you name it. Those of you who are telling me on this forum that you didn't know who Thailand or Ghagga were before I brought it up....well, you would know if you went out of your little sarbloh-bibeki-amritdhari bubble for a second. They have more than 25 solid "parchaaraks" at the moment with many many more being pushed out into the world through their missionary college education. They have went around the world...from the biggest cities to the smallest pinds/villages which none of you "intelligent and intellectual" people would ever care about. I have seen most of their videos and read most of their articles. I know how serious this is. They are causing a major rift between different groups. They are trying to remove everything except Guru Granth Sahib. Well, there goes 5 K's, Nitnem, Amrit, Shastar, many many historical Gurdwaras, lot's of history, lot's of Granths/literature, etc, etc, etc. They are narrowing down the majority of Sikh Sangat to just Guru Granth...and that's where Sikhi will be finished. I mean it. If there is only Guru Granth...Sikhi as we know it today and have known it for the past 300 years will be finished. Because once there is only Guru Granth, they will disect that as well and pick it apart piece by piece. Nihangs/Taksal/AKJ are in the MINORITY. Hair cut, drinking, smoking, eating meat, etc....they are the majority. They own/manage most of the Gurdwara properties around the world. Accept that bitter truth whether you like it or not. Where's your intellect and intelligence gone when trying to appeal to those people and give them a boost into Sikhi? Because the missionaries are sure appealing to them through their sweet talk and parchar. Where is your counter-parchar? Apart from a few seminars, it's non-existant. I have been following this for years. I have seen it unfold. People doubted me when I said that Darshan is with Sarna and RSS and Kala-Afghana and Missionaries. People doubted me when I said that Misssionaries are with Sarna and Darshan and Kala-Afghana. People doubted me when I said Dhunda is one of them too. Now what do we have? We have pictures of Darshan with Kala-Afghana. Jeonwala with Kala-Afghana. Dhunda with Ghagga, Thailand, and others. Dhunda with Darshan as well? Wait.....did I just say that? Dhunda with Darshan? A picture exists? I bet you didn't know that! Because until now, the dhunda supporters have been denying dhunda's links with anyone else. Wellllll, I was going to post that picture in the coming days...but...hey,,, I guess it's not intellectual or intelligent enough for you. Remember me.... because watch in around 10-15 years time what will be the state of Sikhi if the missionaries succeed. Stop being selfish and start thinking about future generations. WAKE UP. And by the way...at the moment...the missionaries are winning and have been for the past 10 years.... You can carry on with your intellectual/intelligent/useful discussions/actions/research now.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/70290-seattle-usa-sangat-denies-bhai-pinderpal-singh-jee-but-welcomes-dhunda-with-open-arms/ http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/70291-bhai-pinderpal-singh-jee-and-bhai-harjinder-singh-sri-nagar-vale-and-others-attacked-constantly-by-missionary-type-groupssupporters/

Mod Edit: Our mistake that we edited this post. Someone reported your post and we mistakenly edited your post. Honest mistake. Sorry.

HAHAHAHA, BEAUTIFUL REPLY! I loved it! That's right, the missionaries just like to put others down and do 'kintu-printu' and be tarksheel and examine every little thing with a magnifind glass. They don't let anyone else live their lives. The missionaries have been against Bhai Pinderpal Singh Jee, Bhai Harjinder Singh Jee Sri Nagar Vale, Bhai Balwinder Singh Rangila and many others for quite some time now. It is because they sing very famous and support Dasam Granth through their Keertan/Katha. It is also because a lot of them are really close to Badal, Badal's family/relatives, Makkar, SGPC, Jathedars, other well-known families and many more. Whereas the missionaries are with Delhi Gurdwara Management Comittee and Sarna and associates. The missionaries bring politics into everything, but they'll never admit it. In early 2012, or maybe in 2011, the Khalsa News website had Pinderpal and Rangila's pictures on their main page header and footer, criticising/making fun of them with some words. I was going to take a picture/screenshot of it, but they took it down only a few days after they had it up.

Here are the videos from last night's special program at Gurdwara Dukh Nivaran Sahib Ludhiana:

http://www.gurmatgian.com/2012/12/26/recording-room-26-12-2012/ Read the comment section too. One person wrote: "Kar deo kam shuroo Guru Granth Sahib Jee dee pooree viaakhiaa daa". Stay alert. Oh yeah, and don't forget to save all of this, including the pictures. Especially the one of Dhunda and Thailand.