LegalSingh

Her mother please advise more ??

Her mother is a well known 'beauty parlour' lady on the Soho Road in Birmingham. In Punjab ladies that run beauty parlours have a reputation for being skanks. Hard Kaur's mum did nothing to counter that stereotype.

As for Hard Kaur itself, and I say 'it' because there's nothing even remotely feminine about it that would merit a 'her' or 'she', after being treated as both a bycycle and a joke by UK Asians she left for India to re-invent herself. After years and years of copious amounts of marijuana and alcohol mental psychosis has set in to the extent that she actually believes the lies she has spun. She told the Indians she was a respected 'star' in the UK. The Indians, being the mugs that they are, swallowed the lie hook line and sinker. She went to India addicted to cigarettes, alcohol and weed. Since adopting the position of bollywood bicycle she has since become addicted to much harder substances. She barely knew how to utter a coherent sentence in the English language before she went but these days her English is nothing more than a set of meaningless mumbles. She is nothing more than a sad joke who should get herself checked into a mental institution as soon as possible. Failing that, an arrest in India on the FIR being filed by Sikh organisations might just be the best thing for her mental well-being. It might finally wake the b*** up from her drunken drug-fuelled stupor.

This's in Canada. I don't know what the police are going to do about the fake death threats and the slap... Also the mom had no say in this, the daughter did this with her boyfriend's cousin who's a police officer, her masee and her cousin who's a lawyer. The moms trying to convince her daughter to lift the charges but she won't listen.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Canada has, does it not, have Laws which state that anyone that makes a domestic violence allegation (any violence within the home) cannot then retract those allegations without suffering serious criminal charges from the authorities themselves ? If, as I suspect, that is the case, the girl is now caught between a rock and a hard place. She can't withdraw her complaint.

On the other issue, Canada is a very civilised country. It's not Punjab. If the Police Officer has misused his position there will be serious consequences for him. I don't know if its the Peel Police, Vancouver or Surrey Police but whichever it is, your relation needs to get down to police hq and file a formal complaint. Regardless of whether or not anything comes of it at least he'll be getting the facts relating to the case out there.

But anyhow, Canadian Law operates on basic English common law principles. The man can't be convicted on hearesay. Unless they have written, audio or video proof of him making a death threat the Court cannot find him guilty.

Unfortunately, what sometimes happens in these situations is that Punjabi men in Canada who are relatively recent immigrants receive either bad legal advice or feel pressured to plead guilty when confronted with the choice of a misdemeanor slap on the wrist or the possibility of a serious stretch of jail time. This situation you portray is all too common in Canada. I know because some of my own uncles and aunties out there have been thrown in jail on the say of their own daughters. I know the UK Sikhs love to complain alot but they don't know how good they've got it compared to the situation out where you are.

Update: All of the sex charges have been proved false, the only thing left is that the daughter said he was threatening her and her friends with death threats.

Will the law require her to prove it, or will the fact that her friends are lying with her be enough?

And in your opinion, after this's over, should he make her leave his house and live somewhere else? In a few months when the girl's 18, he technically doesn't have to let her live in his house.

Its hard to answer your questions on the point of law without knowing what country you're in Simranpreet Singh. Here in England, the dad wouldn't have to wait another year to throw her out of the house. The legal age for everything except vote....and I mean everything including drinking in pubs and nightclubs etc is 16. He could have thrown her out last year and saved himself the aggravation. But like I said it's difficult to answer the legal points without knowing which jurisdiction you're talking about. You see, the thing is here in Europe nobody really gets to spend even an hour behind bars in a police station unless its a really really henious crime. In contrast, in North America, the authorities love locking people up even for traffic offences. Indeed, America locks up more of it's population than any other country in the hstory of the world. But yeah...he should throw her out and kick the mum out too while he's at it.

Wow......!!! Just listened to it. This Moranwali man is awesome. I remember listening to his intro to a Jazzy B track a few years ago and was blown away but until now didn't know who it was. This KS Makhann track has echos of that Jazzy B track in that the Moranwali intro was world class awesome but the song itself was average at best, below par at worst. Same with this song. This intro is simply mind-blowingly awesome....Making it one of the best songs ever. But then the actual song starts with ks makhann and its just oh so average at best. I can't wait for the day that a singer with an actual genuine great song uses Moranwali for the intro.

But seriously....the intro by Moranwali, and the acompanying music is simply awesome. One of the best things I've heard in a long time.

Don't know how true this story is.......Sounds a bit iffy to me BUT......there's one thing that sticks out. He became her dad when she was 3 and she's now 17. Throughout her entire life so far he has had responsibility of bringing her up.....teaching her values etc. Throughout her entire life thus far it is this man that the youngster looked to for moral guidance in life. That was his responsibility.

Lets be honest now brothers and sisters.......he's done a pretty atrocious job of it. You can't help but question the strength of his own moral fibre on the back of that. Of course that doesn't make him a sex offender etc, but to bring up a child with such criminal low morals he's obviously done more things wrong than right so far.

Daal AND sabji. I have it all and can't remember there ever having been something in langar I didn't like (with the exception of the onion achar that people keep having these days - it's the most pointless achar ever). Honestly I think our Sikh diet (sabjis and daals) is the greatest, strength-building healthiest diet in the world as long as you combine it with our traditional hard work ethic (or....if you can't work on the farm, regular exercise at the gym). Without the hard physical work however.....it's an unhealthy killer

I doubt the west will become Muslim majority. Atleast not in our lifetime. Christians are more active in doing parchar of their dharm than Muslims are.

We're obviously living in different countries Johnny. In the England I live in far more of the population attend a live football match on Sunday morning than those that attend church. In the England I live Christianity is alive and well only among some poor black African communities. In wider spociety it's become a museum relic. As a practiced religion, Islam is already the majority religion in both England and France. Their sharia laws are already officialy sanctioned and accepted and their halal meat has already become the norm. Despite this, thus far, as far as I'm aware, nobody has beheaded me....nobody has forced meat down my throat.....and nobody has tried to convert me.

The title of the thread can be a bit confusing when you read it the first few times. Originally I thought the title was 'White 3ho Sikhs v Non-white Sikhs', in which case my answer would be as follows : The former have brought millions of people towards Sikhi and the latter have driven millions away.

As it is I don't really have much of an opinion on the matter exept to say that the white 3ho Sikhs have each introduced Sikhi to about 35,000% more people than any of their critics here.

how much did it cost to build this gurdwara sahib?

Just £4 million. But it looks a good £20 million worth.

In contrast, Southall cost £30 million in todays money but looks like a £2 million building.

You haven't elaborated on what 'wrong' things he does but I will say this : Sikhi is not something you can force, lecture or scare someone into. It is, quite simply about feeling the love. I guarantee that if he makes a habit of attending the Gurdwara, getting involved in the children's activities in the Gurdwara etc, he will, before long, get an amazing feeling that will make him want to take even greater steps towards Sikhi without you having to say a word.

Awesome. Makes you wonder where the £20 million (£30 million in todays money) ($47 million) went in the making of the rather bland Southall Gurdwara. But then again, when you remember how most of the money went to the firm of architects of which a daughter of a committe member is employed and who, incidentaly, is married to a white Christian, you get a good idea of why such a large amount of money was spent on a building worth a fraction of the price.

But this Gurdwara in Glasgow is awesome. Never had a reason to visit Scotland before but have now.

^^ Sir, with all due respect, have you (God forbid) witnessed any of your family members facing the kind of diabolical brutality which these "disorganized" and "screaming" people saw with their own eyes and have forgotten what it means to sleep?

You misunderstood my point completely Mehtab Singh. My whoe point was that the suffering widows should have been allowed to tell the watching public of their pain one by one. Their voices and stories desperately needed to be heard by the ignorant watching Indian public on national TV and, for once, they had the ears of the nation. However, their voices were not heard because they were drowned out by the mass of demonstrators. I can assure you that, despite every single Indian media organisation being present, not one single sad story was able to be narrated coherently to the public because their voices were drowned out by their own supporters. Given the 30 years of suffering they have waited to let the world know of their pain that, I'm sure you'll agree, is a crying shame.

I watched those scenes live on the Sikh Channel a couple of weeks ago. I remember thinking at the time how disorganised we are. The entire mainstream Indian media were there and it was a great chance to put our views across to the watching billion Indians. Instead, however, there was chaos. In a typical Indian trait, everybody screams and shouts at the same time. As such, not one single viewpoint was able to be heard eloquently and effectively by the watching Indian public. It showed to me how desperately in need we are of leadership and organisation.

I also watched the many interviews the Sikh Lawyer Phoolka gave on mainstream Indian news. What came across to me was the lack of passion and eloquency in his arguments. There were so many missed opportunities to make great points. As such, it really pains me to say it because I feel he is such a wonderful person who has worked so hard on behalf of Sikhs, I really do feel that he was never up to the job and it is unsurprising how justice has not been served for the victims of the Sikh genocide.

You obviously mean a more artistic approach

No, not neccessarily. When you say 'artistic' you are probably referring to 'art' films, and art films are generally the opposite of neo-realism in that they are sometimes pompous, experimental and strange rather than being true to life. By neo-realism I'm referring to the cinema of Iran today and Italian cinema after WW2. These films are characterised by their usage of real-life non-actors depicting real-life mundane situations. Easy and relatively cheap to make and repeatedly win oscars and international awards year after year......thus giving the outside world a window into the local situation.

'Punjabi' films would (and indeed are) just be poor imitations of Bollywood films. That is because Sikhs in India generally live up to the Bollywood hype. They actually see themselves as 'entertainers' .....to 'entertain' the masses by jumping up and down like performing monkeys shouting the occassional 'chak de' and 'balle balle'. Strangely, the average Sikh in India actually thinks that position in life is actually respeced by the Indians. Because, when Sikhs 'entertain' the Indian masses, the Indians are pleased, the Sikhs there mistake the smiles and pleasure for respect. In that respect you can't blame the Indians for portraying us as slightly stupid because our actions seem to verify that.

Througout our history we have always done better when we have looked north towards central Asia rather than south towards India. We did that during our Khalsa Raj and we did that when looking for Sikh words such as sardar, dastar, ardas, khalsa, nihung etc etc. When it comes to movies we need to do that again by taking inspiration from the neo-realism of current Iranian cinema. Such films would cost less than $100,000 to make and would win international recognition.

I say lets go for the neo-realism because movies such as Sadda Haq, although good because they showed the truth, still contain the melodramatic bad acting etc that turn the international audience off. As 'Punjabis' however, we have a tendancy to be melodramatic. When we make a movie about the Sikh struggle we tend to try and fit every occurrence into the storyline to the point that the story no longer makes cinematic sense. We need to change our way of thinking and realise that with neo-realism a simple story say, for example, of a boy that has lost his school book in the fields and his struggle to find the book, can portray the mass killings of Sikhs in the background. There are better and smarter ways of telling our story.

There is a solution, but the solution will not suit the producer / director / actors of the movie who see it more as a commercial enterprise than the rest of us do. Sikhs need to go from village to village across Punjab with a roving mobile makeshift cinema, showing the movie freely to all. In fact, Sikh groups in the UK, Canada and America etc could organise this quite easily and cheaply. But, like I said, I don't think the makers of the film would allow it.

Change your name to illegalbrahmin because casteist brahmins will love your nonsensical views about castes.

It was a joke showing the absurdities of it all. Next time I'll add a disclaimer forewarning you of a joke because you seem to be incapable of spotting one on your own.

Lets just be thankful they're still called nagar kirtans by everyone in the UK. In Canada they've even changed their names to 'parades'.

Also, lets be thankful that, in the UK, the only flag on view is the Khanda, with even city councils such as Southampton removing the Union Jack from their town halls for the day and hoisting the Khanda instead. In Canada and America it's the Maple Leaf and the Star Spangled Banner that is prominent. Be thankful for the way we have it. Every time, after a nagar kirtan in cities across the world, just read the comments from readers in local papers . The ordinary man and woman in the street has nothing but wonderful things to say about Sikhs and Sikhism. £50,000 or whatever it costs to organise is nothing compared to the genuine interest it brings to Sikhs. You can't put a price on great publicity like that.

I have but 2 gripes with both channels :

1) The extremely poor use of the English langauge in it's written captions that has noticeably gotten worse in recent months.

2) The overuse of a musical backdrop to accompany news featues. That is the hallmark of Indian TV news as Indians are incapable of folliwing news stories without music setting the tone. That kind of Indian dumbing down we Sikhs should we moving away from not embracing. The Sikh Channels should be helping to create a generation that has enough attention span that it can follow news without a soundtrack telling them how to feel about the news story.