sikhiseeker

WJKK WJKF AGREED!

WJKK, WJKF Dear brother, Manak sahib is right in the context of the music industry, but my point is from the dharmic viewpoint, samaaj and virsa cannot mix with sikh gurmat as it becomes Mann matt. Also, you did not reply to the post I made to you? WJKK WJKF

WJKK, WJKFWhen you met Diljit Dosanjh, how did you come to the conclusion that he is "panthically aware and fully respects sikhi"?. Did you watch jatt and julliette 1 & 2 and then listen to his song "Kharku" first before making your opinion? I find it completely ridiculous that people try and justify these caste endorsements done by these people and then say support them. I will never support a person who on one hand supports anti-gurmat and then on the other hand has the cheek to sing Dharmic geet! I will never let this person become a role model either. I do agree with you that the issue needs to be addressed within its demand. It's fine if a person believe in their caste, idolise themselves and wanna sing their castes praise and be apart of their caste. However I have a problem when they bring my gurus Nirmal panth into that! Any amrit dhari sikh who endorse this needs to ask themselves "why am I ok with is when it is causes segregation and bad issues within my religion" Also how can you state that Diljit Dosanj has done more for sikhi albeit with a trimmed beard lol, why? The alcohol, women, caste and trimming of the beard becomes good for sikhi then if you simply have put a pagg on? So what your saying is adhere to Man Matt but with a pag on, encourage segregation, booze and girls within young people born into "sikh" families, then after you have done this the dharmic album will flop because people don't wanna listen to this as they want what you did first, but you have made a brilliant contribution to guru nanaks Nirmal panth!? Also your right, the song "Kharku" is not "ok" from the sikh viewpoint, hence why I condemn these singers actions as I try to have a sikhi viewpoint on all things within my life, for me personally everything starts and finishes with my sikh viewpoint. My view point is man mat and it will always win if I give it the opportunity to voice it's opinion. Again, caste and the image portrayed by people like Lembher hussanpuri, miss poojo and Diljit Dosanj should be condemned if we say we are religiously sikh, no amrit dhari should support such actions. WJKK WJKF

WJKK, WJKFPlease dear brother take a look at these lyrics sung by a Mr. Diljit Dosanj in his song Kharku! Kive tod dau koi tera mera pyar ni Mure jatt kharku khdaaaaa How can someone separate us? Jatt Kharku is standing right in front to protect us. Haath vich fadi talwar ni Gut vich soniye Karaa I have a sword in my hand and karaa(steel bangle) on my fist. These aren't based on the traditional stories of panjabi culture, rather a caste based reference associated with sikhi where sikhi denounces caste. Also brother, I read this post you made on a topic about meat " Meat: SikhSangat.com holds an Anti-Meat stand. We feel that eating meat is immoral, unlawful and simply wrong according to the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib jee." It would be great if this view was taken by sikhs in general as in caste is immoral, unlawful and simply wrong according to the teachings of Guru Granth Sahibi ji. Rather than excepting that caste associated with sikhi within bhangra alongside other defaming issues and telling one to try and understand panjabi culture, there should be an anti-stand against caste by sikhsangat.com and sikhs. Sikhi is not a pick a mix religion, as it has been made at present. WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKFSimply showing support to people like bhai Gurbax Singh Khalsa Ji does not undo the caste segregation and bad image bhangra singers like the above mentioned do. The 80's were the 80's, we need to look at what the issues are present day and how that situation will play out in the future. Caste, Alcohol, the image of these singers and the general frolicking around with girls is fine, as long as you do not associate it with sikhi, which is the case now. Panjabi culture is of no value to me, I don't personally care about heer ranjha or any other traditional panjabi love story which traditional bhangra is based on. My heroes and heroines are people like mata gujri ji and shaheed bhai jeevan Singh ji. Also, not all of bhangra music is now based on the traditional panjabi love stories. Lyrical content is simply caste based. Do you appreciate the film "jatt and Juliette"? I certainly don't and hope that rather than support these artists constant contradictions, we should as the SIKH sangat condemn any association with derogatory physical images associated with sikhs and kick out caste. Panjabi Culture and Virsa is one thing, sikhi is another, the two can never mix. The very reason why I condemn artist such as I have stated in the topic is the very point you mentioned. The youth, the wrong message is given at an early age. Basically, alcohol is great, sex is great and your caste is your identity and no one else's matches- WRONG! How can a person who sings that their caste is the best wearing a Kara having camera shots of the sikh symbol of the khanda within the video also featuring again, girls and booze then on another channel be singing a Dharmic geet about our shaheed. Do you really not thing that their is no damage on the youths opinion when listening to their music? What should be done is they should sing songs which celebrates all panjabi's and the healthy panjabi culture and Virsa what Panjab once saw, not the very tools used so that Panjab has become a alcoholic fueled, drug inflicted wreck. Then their positive stance will enable to call these singers as role models and their dharmic geet will be an inspiration for that same youth which they inspire, which then the dharmic geet will also inspire. WJKK WJKF

WJKK, WJKF yea that show is a joke. It's funny how people call it a "SIKH MATRIMONIAL SHOW". The worst thing is they have now got a amrit dhari sister reading the caste based references. What is she doing?

WJKK WJKF, Once again, I heard a sikh brother who greatly inspires me say on The Sikh Youth Show on the Sikh Channel on Sunday night that Diljit Dosanj is doing a great job inspiring people wearing his pag??? Is it just me? Have I gone crazy? Just because someone chooses to wear a dastar while trimming their beird, promoting caste segregation and booze and frolicking around with girls all at the same time of wearing a Kara and claiming he's a sikh....how is this inspirational? Because he's doing it with a pagg on? Is that what dastar di izhat is these days? To me inspirational is someone like Bhai Jugraj Singh ji from basics of sikhi or Bhai Satvinder Singh and Harvinder Singh Dehli wale or K.S Makhan when he was blesse with amrit and became khalsa or even Sardar Roop Singh who won the £250k on Deal or no deal. These silly antics by people like Diljit Dosanj should be condemned not congratulated. I wonder if we will get another dharmic geet track out after one of his caste based films next? Something not to look forward to anyway! WJKK, WJKF

WJKK, WJKFSikhi is a Nirmal panth. People have mocked sikhi and real sikhs who lived by sikh principals like our shaheed since the dharam was born with Shiri Guru Nanak Ji. If this new religion, Ravidassia are now slandering sikhi, it only shows insecurity. What we need to do is look within our dharam and see what the reasons are behind these factions being created by people in our religion such as caste and westernisation and make a change on an individual basis within our personal lives. Only by each and every principal believing sikh will this change take place by doing this, then maybe in our children's lifetime, or our grandchildrens lifetime will we establish the faith of our gurus how it was meant to be. It's like the whole climate change and the wastage of energy issue, if one person shuts of the light when it's not needed it isn't gonna have any effect on the overall wastage of energy however if everyone participated then it will make a massive change! We should adopt this to sikhi and strive for equality. Rather than standing up and dismantling the extremism and fascism within the Ravidassia Religion and educating them on the false beliefs they hold, I feel we should first do this within ourselves and sikhi, as we harbour all of these issues too. How can we educate other faiths when we are so uneducated ourselves? Sikhi is being dismantled within sikhi, the emphasis should be on that. Not a religion made in 2009 as you rightly stated. I hope you can see my point. WJKK WJKF WJKK WJKFDead brother, Please read the post I made to cool water, as I don't know how to quote two posts at the same time lol. WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF, Again, the sikh dharam is equal, but the people who claim to be sikh are far from it. Their is no unity in sikhi. At present it is caste based sikhs which in itself is a contradiction to the religion. These people have never been accepted due to caste issues and other castes claiming caste supremacy over sikhi. Hence why we still have terms like "chamar sikh", "mazabhi sikh" and "jatt sikh". All these terms should not exist once amrit is taken but they do. So I cannot see no brotherly/sisterly love between sikhs. They faced exclusion from so called sikhs and turned their back on sikhi, rather than the people claiming to be sikh. We should highlight the shortfalls within ourselves so we can talk and try to find a solution for the sustainability and progression of sikhi, rather than blame other people on infiltration of this community. The first people who pushed the domino for this domino effect to happen was the so called sikhs, due to their caste supremacy ideology damaging our Nirmal panth based on equality. WJKK WJKF

WJKK, WJKF alil concerned at some of the opinions of this sister, main one being about allowing to let amritadharis do what they will, like for e.g the girls trimming eyebrows and wearing make up. Once amrit is taken, the man or woman is living by the rehat set by the guru, living by gurmat, the point and emphasis being not their Man Matt. A female doing her eyebrows for e.g is man Matt, that person should not of made the commitment if they can not fully commit to the rehat. It's like one day amrit dhari men accepting amrit and still trimming thier beirds or even eyebrows in some cases lol. Would that be ok? Definately not! Amrit is your choice, the choice of living to the rehat and not your Man Matt, defeating the 5 vices which are as hard for both men and women and the rehat being the same for both male and female as sikhi is genderless, ones interpretation should be within the guidelines of the rehat and gurmat, not western society, western culture and the western idea of beauty. I support Harnaam Kaur's stance, she should not have to give up her chance of mukhti after her millions of janam to get to her human for due to the western ideology of beauty. However I feel she has took two steps forward and one step back, with the whole make up and dress sense issue as an amrit dhari is khalsa and a soldier of the guru. Not an fashion advertisement for topshop lol. Same for bit genders, dress beautifully, appropriately and practically within the rehat, as if your amrit dhari, you chose to live by it! WJKK WJKF

Dear "luckysingh99" We're lucky to have a sikh like you lucky Singh, totally agree with you. The fabrication of waheguru and the intertwining souls are very complicated. WJKK WJKF

Yea I agree, kinda off topic, we're not singin from the same hymn sheet.

WJKK, WJKF Dear brother, thanks for posting these shabad from our guru. However again, within the lines of the original topic, "do children take the karma of parents" the shabad you have provided are really not on that topic, He remains dead while yet alive, and redeems all his ancestors. ||1|| This shabad is talking about someone who lives by gurmat, by redeeming his ancestors it does not mean a gurmukh carries their karma...basically all their kul da karma. "They drown themselves, and drown their entire family; speaking lies, they eat poison. ||6||" This shabad is talking about someone who lives their life by Man Matt and the affect their actions in life will inevitably influence their entire family. This is not due to karma, this is due to ones poor decisions and influences made to family while living, like drinking alcohol, smoking tobacco, cheating, encouraging caste etc..... All the other quotes I feel are not related to the topic in discussion. For me and what I understand in my opinion is I can only be accountable for my actions. Why should I be accountable for my Biological father/mother or even the entire kul? We all take our janam due to our previous karmic action. This is our individual chance after millions of janam. If one achieves the state of brahm gian and receives ridhi/sidhi, I believe then one may have the ability to help ancestors but that is another topic in itself. WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF,When people from this caste chak amrit as many other castes did, they were and still are continuously reminded of their pre-caste by people who call themselves sikhs. We talk about inter-faith marriage, yet within the so called mainstream society we still do not encourage marriage within sikh communities due to the wide spread belief of caste, everyone sticking to their own basically. When our panth is Nirmal and the khalsa is pure and equal, people who claim themselves to be sikh have never let other people from other heritages be equal. That is why these people after so many yaers of injustice have split, wrongly I agree, as it is not the religion which is at fault, however the ones who deem themselves to be religious. So after all these years of people calling them chamars, even when they are amrit dhari, they have turned ther back to sikhi, instead of the people who claim falsely they are sikh. Now we are stating that people who are against the progression of sikhi like nirankaris are relating it to their caste? We as the sikh community did this, before anyone else and we still are to other communities. When ones caste is used in a derogatory manner, that community of people will then try and claim that term back, like how Our African brothers and sisters call one another "nig**r" also how Pakistani people refer themselves as "p*ki". When a chamar Chaks amrit, they should of been refered to as khalsa, not chamar sikh. Even today, a khalsa who was from mazabhi decent is still termed as a mazabhi sikh? So again, my point is within mainstream sikhi, were great at giving caste references to our own fold and having the same hierarchy in western countries what stil exists in India. So we should look at what we do as a kaum and how far we take our sikhi, also the defamation of our faith we do within sikhi ourselves and asses our understanding of the equal, casteless, colourless, genderless Nirmal panth of shiri guru nanak dev ji. The reason behind the people of India excepting amrit was the equality it offered under waheguru, this also being the reason why many from the Hindu faith converted to various other religions like Christianity and Islam to break their aste affiliation of the inequality of Hinduism. sagal dhuaar ko shaadd kai gehiyo thuhaaro dhuaar | baahi gehae kee laaj as gobindh dhaas thuhaar |864| O Lord ! I have forsaken all other doors and have caught hold of only Thy door. O Lord ! Thou has caught hold of my arm; I, Govind, am Thy serf, kindly take (care of me and) protect my honour.864. Unfortunately as the sikh kaum, we do not protect one another's honour, we now point fingers at others blaming them for the cracks we helped make. WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF The reason why this has happened is because the supposedly sikh kaum cannot stop affiliating itself with its pride of caste. How many titles of " this sikh" "that sikh" are there? We even go as far to attribute caste to great shaheeds now, who died for the right to live by the sikh principles. So called Parcharaks and historians are fuelling the fire as they state one caste did more kurbani for sikhi than another. Dhan Dhan Bhagat Ravidas anti caste views within his shabads sound at such a volume, hence why they were compiled within our guru, but the so called sikhs of that guru today practice the religion of caste and simply bow down to the SGGS ji as mere ritual now. We should all as sikhs condemn caste, encourage the holy nectar and instead of holding caste close to our hearts, we should denounce our castes and hold strong our sikh bond with our brothers and sisters. Simply a boycott on caste is needed. As we are the parents now, if caste is still present within sikhi when our children become adults, we have no one to blame but ourselves. So if we really believe in the progression and the sustaining of our Nirmal panth, then it is everyone's responsibility and we as parents now should not blame the elder generation, we should educate them as we will educate our children and move forward as our guru intended. WJKK WJKF

WJKK, WJKFGreat post, so much more needs to be done about the caste issue within sikhi, if only people would understand that really caste is simply a job title....nothing to be proud off like a shackle of a slave, holding them back from azaadhi, it is the largest detrimental opinion left in sikhi, which its affect is literally evident and the bases of why the split has happened. Even now, in posts people are still attributing this communities caste, what has their caste have to really do with it? I think we should look at ourselves. I look forward to reading your other posts. WJKK WJKK

WJKK, WJKF Yes. I partially agree with you on that. DAWAH is useless but talk is verbal speech formed from ones mind and if based on the gurus, gurmat and gurbani it becomes sikhi da parchar. If it is self opinion, it is simply opinion. I also agree with you that if one who gives themselves a title of sikh and then has a soft spot for caste, is indeed no sikh as they have not learnt one of the basic fundamental principles of sikih, it does definately come out in the open in the end.....like promoting caste based programs and inevitably becoming that parent, who instructs and misguides their children into marrying within their own caste. All along still claiming their sikhs. Again, please can you clarify what caste has to do with ones karma? Because you still haven't? I have read that you don't read sakhi's, parchar from sants or gianies. So please provide me with a shabad from gurbani concerning the relation to Karam and Jaath Paath, also where guru ji tells us we will take our parents karma on. Please stay on topic and educate me why your view is as such, if I am incorrect in my thinking, please correct me with the relevant shabads in regards to what I have stated above. WJKK WJKF

WJKK, WJKF Dear Mokham Singh ji, I agree that one should earn an honest living however I personally thing this is a separate issue to whether a child takes his/ parents karma on. WJKK WJKF

WJKK WJKF Dear Brother, It feels like you keep moving the goal posts in a way. The original post was about whether a child takes on the karma of his/her parents, from disagreeing with you on bringing in caste within this debate, you now have stated a shabad of our guru ji in reference to the humans psychology? Again, I can not identify your point or understand what this has to do with our previous posts to one another. It's kinda out of context. Also, you did not respond to what I asked and stated within my last post. WJKK WJKF

WJKK, WJKF Dear sister, It's so difficult having to go through the day without having a good night sleep. The only advice I can personally suggest is firstly, look at your daily routine, if your not physically busy enough try and fit in some excersise which will tire you out as you will use up your surplus energy, helping you feel tired before you actually go to bed. If you do already do this and still experiencing distracting dreams, when your asleep having a dream, once the dream breaks and you are back into your own consciousness (even though you will still be very sleepy) DONT HO BACK TO SLEEP....... wake up, maybe go down stairs and have a glass of water, give it a few minutes and then go back to bed. This should break the continuous cycle of the dreams occurring. Also before you go to bed, you should remember Akal Purakh waheguru and say a personal prayer. Also when you wake up from the dream and go back to bed, again take your thought upon waheguru. If the problem still occurs, before you go to bed you could listen or recite the sikh prayer of Kirtan Sohila before you go to bed. This will not affect your Hindu faith, as our guru is for everyone and waheguru is universal and unlimited. Hope this helps sister, update me either way. WJKK WJKF

Dear brother, I think you are missing the point I am making and may have misunderstood my point. Also, I am a sikh, I have no caste, so I do not have a problem, if you look back at any of my topics/posts I'm sure you will see that actually, my posts are 100% anti-caste. As a sikh, I will not promote any organisation/program/person who associates themselves with caste and at the sametime say their sikh, for e.g your topic on the sangat channel "sikh" matrimonial show lol. The problem lies within opinions and past affiliations with sikhs who were once at some point Hindu and still today take pride in their previous caste, where ever I see or read caste being associated with my guru and shaheeds sikhi, I will fight and apose it dear brother. It is my duty and responsibility as a sikh. What I feel you have misunderstood on this topic is that within sikhi, there is no caste, period. So how can one be born within caste due to karmic actions? Dear brother, I feel you are mixing Hinduism and sikhi and coming out with a mixed view. Our path of mukhti, is not the same path as a hindu's path. You quote gurbani in many posts you make, I only wish you could apply gurbani to your acceptance of caste also. Again, with the issue on parents Preaching Mann Matt. I believe it is every sikhs duty and responsibility to preach gurmat, irregards of relation. Just because it's your father or mother who are wrong, it does not mean you should follow them boundlessly breaking your religious rehat and principal with your guru? I would like to ask you a direct personal question, Do you believe in caste and do you thing it has any part/role in sikhi? WJKK WJKF

WJKK, WJKF Dear Brother, Please can you explain to me why you have brought caste within this debate. What is the relevance and connection of caste to guru nanaks dev ji's patti I posted? If you support caste so much, please educate me to where our guru, SGGS ji or any of the Gurus accept caste. Also if you are sikh, how can you be associated with the Hindu hierarchy of caste? If you are a believer of the Hindu caste, then should you not do what the Hindu dharam tells you to do, to be born a Brahman male to gain mukhti and call yourself a Hindu, rather than a sikh of guru nanak? Saying " bad stuff" and being "haraamkhor" to parents is one thing, but explaining to ones parents about gurmat if they are telling you to exist within Mann Matt is another. Would you then also suggest that Guru Nanak Dev Ji should be brought under the above term, as per his relationship with his parents, denouncing the janeu was against his parents will, do you suppose he should of just gone along with the ceremony and obeyed his parents wish? Or explained the gurmat what our father, Akal Purakh wants us to do? WJKK WJKF

Dear brother, Please specify what facts your putting on the table? Also, I am a reader and what I stated was in my opinion, as what you stated is in your opinion. It's just a disagreement on opinion. Lol, you assume every female, grandmother/mother or whatever status, if they are given "freedom" via smart phones/Facebook there all bound to having affairs and running away lol? That's kinda a degrading way to look at it, do you then also apply this same outcome to men? Or just females? WJKK WJKF

What has caste have to do with this issue? Whether they have separated from sikhi or not, why attach a particular caste? It's like if an issue arose with the American sikhs, someone would try and put it down to caste with them too lol. It's so irrelevant.

Dear brother, Please refer to guru nanak dev ji's patti: ਦਦੈ ਦੋਸ੝ ਨ ਦੇਊ ਕਿਸੈ ਦੋਸ੝ ਕਰੰਮਾ ਆਪਣਿਆ ॥ Dadda: Do not blame anyone else; blame instead your own actions. ਜੋ ਮੈ ਕੀਆ ਸੋ ਮੈ ਪਾਇਆ ਦੋਸ੝ ਨ ਦੀਜੈ ਅਵਰ ਜਨਾ ॥੨੧॥ Whatever I did, for that I have suffered; I do not blame anyone else. ||21|| It is self explanatory. WJKK WJKF