BarinderSingh

Why not raise your own cattle if you are so concerned.

What kind of cars do you drive? Do you know how much pollution is created by farming your veg and fruit at the mass scale it is done today.

Do you know the farming employees are put at risk and are paid very little to grow your veg and fruits.

It is good that people are waking up to the treatment of farm animals. However dont turn a blind eye to the poor farm employee who will get cancer by picking your fruit and veg because he or the 5 year old child is not given proper protection from the toxic chemicals applied to plants.

Not all fruit and veg farmers are the same. Same goes for cattle farmers that produce milk.

I'm actually surprised to read by Bhai Gurdas ji advocating the use of soham hansa mantra instead of Waheguru.

saahi saahi man pavan liv soha(n) ha(n)saa japai japaavai||

They through the flame of breath, mind and the life force, recite and make others recite the soham and hans recitations (jap).

It is saying to do jap of Vaheguru. Read the following lines. The Guru's use many words from older schools of thought but then change the meaning of the words. In the same Vaar Bhai Sahib says to be a Gurmukh and focus on the Gurus feet. In the second Vaar Bhai Sahib says the following.

ieVw ipMgulw suKmnw sohM n smwxw]

eirraa pi(n)gulaa sukhamanaa soha(n) n samaanaa||

The taste of the recitation of Soham in the base of ira, pingala and susumna nerves is not equal to the taste of the elixir of Love.

If you take the first vaar the words to mean soham and hans then he contradicts himself. Looking at the Vaars by taking in all the lines a clear picture is painted.

As I was searching for Dasam Bani on this topic I discovered Vaars of Bhai Gurdas ji tell us to attach ourselves to the Guru's feet (shabad) and the shabad is above the practice of focusing on the third eye. Bhai Gurdas Ji is an accepted interpreter of Gurbani not only by Sikhs, but by Sri Guru Arjun Dev ji.

Let's listen to the Vaars of Bhai Gurdas ji. First one is referenced from here:

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5682

crn kml mkrMdu ris hoie Bvru lY vwsu luBwvY]

charan kamal makara(n)dh ras hoe bhavar lai vaas lubhaavai||

Like the black bee they surrender at the lotus feet of Guru and enjoy the sap and remain happy.

ieVw ipMgulw suKmnw lµiG iqRbyxI inj Gir AwvY]

eirraa pi(n)gulaa sukhamanaa la(n)gh thribaenee nij ghar aavai||

They go beyond the triveni of ira, pingala and susumna and stabilize in their own self.

swih swih mnu pvx ilv sohM hMsw jpY jpwvY]

saahi saahi man pavan liv soha(n) ha(n)saa japai japaavai||

They through the flame of breath, mind and the life force, recite and make others recite the soham and hans recitations (jap).

Acrj rUp AnUp ilv gMD sugMiD Avysu mcwvY]

acharaj roop anoop liv ga(n)dhh suga(n)dhh avaes machaavai||

The form of surati is wonderfully fragrant and enrapturing.

suKswgr crxwribMd suK sMpt ivic shij smwvY]

sukhasaagar charanaarabi(n)dh sukh sa(n)patt vich sehaj samaavai||

The Gurmukhs calmly absorb in the pleasure-ocean of the Guru feet.

gurmuiK suKPl iprm rsu dyh ibdyh prm pdu pwvY]

guramukh sukhafal piram ras dhaeh bidhaeh param padh paavai||

When they in the form of pleasure-fruit obtain the supreme joy, they go beyond the bondages of body and bodylessness and attain the highest station.

swDsMgiq imil AlKu lKwvY ]11]

saadhhasa(n)gath mil alakh lakhaavai ||11||

Such Gurmukhs have the glimpse of that invisible Lord in the Holy Congregation.(11)

In the first Vaar something that sticks out is when Bhai Gurdas Ji says Gurmukhs go beyond the third eye meditation technique by attaching themselves to the feet of the Guru. Also Bhai Gurdas ji explains how to use the breath and mind. Many people in the Panth have lost the plot and started using Kundalini yoga exercises and focus on the third eye point while using the breath and mind. Bhai Gurdas ji is directly disowning such practices and saying to use the breath into reciting the shabad and making others recite the shabad (Gurbani) as your mind focuses on the Shabad.

And here is the second Vaar.

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=5835

gurmuiK suK Plu iprm rsu iCA rs hYrwxw]

guramukh sukh fal piram ras shhia ras hairaanaa||

Even the six tastes (satras) are full of wonder before the Gurmukhs delightful fruit in the form of elixir of Love.

CqIh AMimRq qrsdy ivsmwd ivfwxw]

shhatheeh a(n)mrith tharasadhae visamaadh viddaanaa||

Thirty six types of repasts, getting aweful before its grandeur, crave for being equal to it.

inJr Dwr hjwr hoie BY cikq Bulwxw]

nijhar dhhaar hajaar hoe bhai chakith bhulaanaa||

Even myriads of currents of delight flowing through the tenth gate become full of wonder and fear before it.

ieVw ipMgulw suKmnw sohM n smwxw]

eirraa pi(n)gulaa sukhamanaa soha(n) n samaanaa||

The taste of the recitation of Soham in the base of ira, pingala and susumna nerves is not equal to the taste of the elixir of Love.

vIh iekIh cVwau ciV prcw prvwxw]

veeh eikeeh charraao charr parachaa paravaanaa||

Going beyond the animate and inanimate i.e. the whole world, the consciousness is merged in the Lord.

pIqY boil n hMGeI AwKwx vKwxw ]5]

peethai bol n ha(n)ghee aakhaan vakhaanaa ||5||

Then the situation turns out to be such that as one cannot speak while drinking, the talk of drinking of the elixir of Love becomes divine.(5)

No doubt others commonly known figures in Sikhi have practiced and told others to practice this third eye focus technique, but a Scholar on Gurbani says to go beyond some lowly practices. Attach yourself to the Shabad (Gurbani) and feel the love that cannot be obtained through the third eye focus technique.

Chandi represents bibek budhi (Gurmat) and the demons represent the 5 vices. Lust anger greed attatchment ego. One who takes Gurus mat and gets of the 5 vices and makes them work for him wont be caught up in this net of incarnation.

Very true. Just shows you cannot take the Sant out of the siphia. Although many try to separate sant and siphia when speaking of Dasam Bani. Come to think of it some are confused about this issue because they fail to incorporate both and they believe Guru Sahib is praising the devi.

The english translation says mediator, but vichola in punjabi does not mean mediator. Vichola is best defined as middle man that brings the bride to her husband. And there is only one 'middle' man that can do this when speaking in terms of Sikhi; its Gurbani alone. Only Gurbani (the Shabad) can deliver a person to to their Husband Vaheguru.

Here is the full shabad on ang 964

ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੫

सलोक मः ५ ॥

Salok mėhlā 5.

Shalok, Fifth Mehl:

ਤੈਡੀ ਬੰਦਸਿ ਮੈ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਡਿਠਾ ਤੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਣਾ

तैडी बंदसि मै कोइ न डिठा तू नानक मनि भाणा ॥

Ŧaidī banḏas mai ko▫e na diṯẖā ṯū Nānak man bẖāṇā.

I have not seen any other like You. You alone are pleasing to Nanak's mind.

ਘੋਲਿ ਘੁਮਾਈ ਤਿਸੁ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਵਿਚੋਲੇ ਜੈ ਮਿਲਿ ਕੰਤੁ ਪਛਾਣਾ

घोलि घुमाई तिसु मित्र विचोले जै मिलि कंतु पछाणा ॥१॥

Gẖol gẖumā▫ī ṯis miṯar vicẖole jai mil kanṯ pacẖẖāṇā. ||1||

I am a dedicated, devoted sacrifice to that friend, that mediator, who leads me to recognize my Husband Lord. ||1||

Veer ji, I cannot argue with you over interpretations. We both agree that you have to focus on the shabad which is great! My view is that when you do hear anhad sounds internally at that time you concentrate your dhyaan by listening to the sounds at the trikuti position. I.e bathing at that point. This is no small feat to achieve so we are debating stuff that maybe well beyond our capabilities which is a time wasting exercise.

Like the last line of your post the anhad shabad will take you above the trikuti.

I will finally say I do wish you well in your spiritual journey and I hope which ever path you take it gets you to Waheguru's abode. Follow the "Shabad" and you can't go wrong.

God bless.

The last line is saying Vaheguru is above the third eye point and a person unites with Vaheguru through the Shabad. When I look at Gurbani I look at the Gurmukhi.

The title of this thread is asking the question regarding where to focus. Satguru gives this answer beautifully by saying focus on the Shabad.

Although Gurbani from Sri Guru Granth Sahib has provided the answer not to focus at the third eye point. I will be looking at Dasam Bani later on in the day on this topic and provide any Dasam Bani that speaks on this matter. It important look to fully explore ideas and not rely on 'Gurmukhs' that teach this as the gospel truth without verifying it with Gurbani.

Put everything on the table for readers to see the full image. If you dont want to continue further with this discuss I can respect your decision.

Especially:

'There is no contentment on Gurbani in your post. You are still searching for something that is not there. You have a phobia of Gurbani as the way it is. Gurbani does not need to be changed, you do.'

Sorry to intervene in your criticism Paaji, just wanted maharaj to say:

ਸਭਿ ਕੀ ਰੇਨ ਹਇ ਰਹੇ ਪੰਖਰੂ, ਮੰਦਾ ਕਿਸਹਿ ਨ ਭਾਖੋ ॥੯॥

Become the dust from the feet of others and stay humble, do not call anyone else bad.

Thanks.

Thank you for your advice but I beleive you are being unfair here. Direct this advice of yours toward the poster that repeated called others cactus jacks.

But thank you for your input

No where in that shabad on ang 974 does Guru Sahib say to focus on these points. If you read further into this shabad Guru sahib says I focus on Vaheguru by taking the beej mantra to my heart (I fully focus on the Shabad).

Read Bhagat Naam dev ji's Bani starting on ang 972 to 973 and he says I sing Vaheguru's praises and I am imbued with the shabad.

Read bhagat kabir ji's Bani on ang334 and he even in a more blunt way rips this third eye idea apart. Bhagat ji also says I focus where Vaheguru dwells. VAHEGURU dwells in the Shabad and the Shabad dwells in Vaheguru. Both are one and the same. Focus there.

And here is the stamp that completely disowns the third eye focus idea. On ang 944 by Guru Nanak Dev ji.

ਸੁ ਸਬਦ ਕਉ ਨਿਰੰਤਰਿ ਵਾਸੁ ਅਲਖੰ ਜਹ ਦੇਖਾ ਤਹ ਸੋਈ

सु सबद कउ निरंतरि वासु अलखं जह देखा तह सोई ॥

So sabaḏ ka▫o niranṯar vās alkẖaʼn jah ḏekẖā ṯah so▫ī.

That Shabad dwells deep within the nucleus of all beings. God is invisible; wherever I look, there I see Him.

ਪਵਨ ਕਾ ਵਾਸਾ ਸੁੰਨ ਨਿਵਾਸਾ ਅਕਲ ਕਲਾ ਧਰ ਸੋਈ

पवन का वासा सुंन निवासा अकल कला धर सोई ॥

Pavan kā vāsā sunn nivāsā akal kalā ḏẖar so▫ī.

The air is the dwelling place of the absolute Lord. He has no qualities; He has all qualities.

ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇ ਸਬਦੁ ਘਟ ਮਹਿ ਵਸੈ ਵਿਚਹੁ ਭਰਮੁ ਗਵਾਏ

नदरि करे सबदु घट महि वसै विचहु भरमु गवाए ॥

Naḏar kare sabaḏ gẖat mėh vasai vicẖahu bẖaram gavā▫e.

When He bestows His Glance of Grace, the Shabad comes to abide within the heart, and doubt is eradicated from within.

ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਨਿਰਮਲੁ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਬਾਣੀ ਨਾਮ ਮੰਨਿ ਵਸਾਏ

तनु मनु निरमलु निरमल बाणी नामो मंनि वसाए ॥

Ŧan man nirmal nirmal baṇī nāmo man vasā▫e.

The body and mind become immaculate, through the Immaculate Word of His Bani. Let His Name be enshrined in your mind.

ਸਬਦਿ ਗੁਰੂ ਭਵਸਾਗਰੁ ਤਰੀਐ ਇਤ ਉਤ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣੈ

सबदि गुरू भवसागरु तरीऐ इत उत एको जाणै ॥

Sabaḏ gurū bẖavsāgar ṯarī▫ai iṯ uṯ eko jāṇai.

The Shabad is the Guru, to carry you across the terrifying world-ocean. Know the One Lord alone, here and hereafter.

ਚਿਹਨੁ ਵਰਨੁ ਨਹੀ ਛਾਇਆ ਮਾਇਆ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਬਦੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ

चिहनु वरनु नही छाइआ माइआ नानक सबदु पछाणै ॥५९॥

Cẖihan varan nahī cẖẖā▫i▫ā mā▫i▫ā Nānak sabaḏ pacẖẖāṇai. ||59||

He has no form or color, shadow or illusion; O Nanak, realize the Shabad. ||59||

ਤ੍ਰੈ ਸਤ ਅੰਗੁਲ ਵਾਈ ਅਉਧੂ ਸੁੰਨ ਸਚੁ ਆਹਾਰੋ

त्रै सत अंगुल वाई अउधू सुंन सचु आहारो ॥

Ŧarai saṯ angul vā▫ī a▫oḏẖū sunn sacẖ āhāro.

O reclusive hermit, the True, Absolute Lord is the support of the exhaled breath, which extends out ten finger lengths.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੋਲੈ ਤਤੁ ਬਿਰੋਲੈ ਚੀਨੈ ਅਲਖ ਅਪਾਰੋ

गुरमुखि बोलै ततु बिरोलै चीनै अलख अपारो ॥

Gurmukẖ bolai ṯaṯ birolai cẖīnai alakẖ apāro.

The Gurmukh speaks and churns the essence of reality, and realizes the unseen, infinite Lord.

ਤ੍ਰੈ ਗੁਣ ਮੇਟੈ ਸਬਦੁ ਵਸਾਏ ਤਾ ਮਨਿ ਚੂਕੈ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੋ

त्रै गुण मेटै सबदु वसाए ता मनि चूकै अहंकारो ॥

Ŧarai guṇ metai sabaḏ vasā▫e ṯā man cẖūkai ahankāro.

Eradicating the three qualities, he enshrines the Shabad within, and then, his mind is rid of egotism.

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਏਕੋ ਜਾਣੈ ਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਲਗੈ ਪਿਆਰੋ

अंतरि बाहरि एको जाणै ता हरि नामि लगै पिआरो ॥

Anṯar bāhar eko jāṇai ṯā har nām lagai pi▫āro.

Inside and out, he knows the One Lord alone; he is in love with the Name of the Lord.

ਸੁਖਮਨਾ ਇੜਾ ਪਿੰਗੁਲਾ ਬੂਝੈ ਜਾ ਆਪੇ ਅਲਖੁ ਲਖਾਏ

सुखमना इड़ा पिंगुला बूझै जा आपे अलखु लखाए ॥

Sukẖmanā iṛā pingulā būjẖai jā āpe alakẖ lakẖā▫e.

He understands the Sushmana, Ida and Pingala, when the unseen Lord reveals Himself.

ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਹੁ ਤੇ ਊਪਰਿ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਮਾਏ

नानक तिहु ते ऊपरि साचा सतिगुर सबदि समाए ॥६०॥

Nānak ṯihu ṯe ūpar sācẖā saṯgur sabaḏ samā▫e. ||60||

O Nanak, the True Lord is above these three energy channels. Through the Word, the Shabad of the True Guru, one merges with Him. ||60||

How much Gurbani do you read with concentration? Guru sahib says you need Shabad to be able to do simran with devotion. Reading gurbani as a parrot will cause you to do simran like a parrot. Although you don't feel anything while doing simran, it still is benefiting you. Read Gurbani with concentration if tou want to feel the energy of Simran.

The readers can only decide after correct info is provided which was being hidden from them with your post. Misquoting Sant ji and Gurbani. Posting long winded post that have been ppreviously created to influence people in the wrong direction. There is no openness or willing to look at another view in your post. Thinking out of the box would mean to correctly quote Sant ji. That would be a start. Second step would be to correctly interpret Gurbani. Gurmat is not stuck in your box of devi praising or maya stages of worship you tell others to follow. Gurmat is the water that flows from the bani of the Gurus and only praises vaheguru. Your inability to understand Gurbani and appreciate Gurbani for what it is has caused you to rebel against it. You have forgotten the basic rule of Gurbani and look else where to add meaning to your ideas that are incomplete in themselves. Basis rule is that Gurbani is the truth, be content with this fact and only after this can you interpet Gurbani. You have preconceived ideas that do not agree with Gurbani and then you want to interpet Gurbani. There is no contentment on Gurbani in your post. You are still searching for something that is not there. You have a phobia of Gurbani as the way it is. Gurbani does not need to be changed, you do.

Focusing on the third eye point or other body parts drags a person deeper into maya. Focusing on the shabad brings a person out of ignorance.

The shabad liberates people. These old people wanted to keep the people ignorant so they gave these instructions. A persons intellect does not increase and is dragged further into darkness where these old people that teach this garbage can exploit the common people in different ways.

The focus is on the shabad with the mind and body. If listening to a shabad then focus on what is being said. If reading gurbani then focus on what is being said. If mind is wandering while rreading gurbani then keep repeating the same until minds stops wandering. ALso understanding more of why we are here helps the mind wander less. These are the instructions given by the Gurus. If doing simran then focus on the shabad that is being said repeatedly.

Focusing at the third eye point or other body parts is made up info by people of the past. Its there own failed attempts at trying to realise where they come from. All of a sudden they feel something and they think its a virtue. I am not stopping anyone from doing it. But shinning a light on this false practice.

Now it comes down to Sri being praise.Trying to twist anything to mislead others. Sant ji says Guru Sahib does not praise Chandi (Durga) in Chandi di Vaar or does not praise any devi anywhere. The irony here is that Sant ji specefically choose to disclose this information while doing the katha of Chandi di Vaar. Which shows previously this Bani has been misunderstood. Yet today there are people still trying to force this twisted view of Guru Sahib praising devis.

The above post is not a transcript of the katha done by Sant ji on the matter of Baguati but selected potions that tell quarter of the matter. The same is done when coming to gurbani. They select and cut many lines of gurbani to say Guru Sahib praises so and so devi.

Bachittar Natak akal ustat or Jaap Sahib does not praise any devi. Bring those isolated lines here and your ignorance can be removed. Gursikhs who do not read gurbani with blinders on can answer. Couple of pages of repetition have not proven them right and still the post that presents the bani of Chandu di Vaar in context could not be answered.

Double post

Onlyfive veer,

1. http://kam1825.podbean.com/2013/12/01/the-meanings-of-the-word-bhagouti/ starts from 1.20 before that, he provides insight how they are bhaugti snatan order, provide different meanings, at 1.20 it starts.

You have provided nothing new. Sant ji say exactly what I said before he has said. You have taken his words and misrepresented them because he say Guru Sahib never praised a devi and you say he does.

2. May be but highly unlikely as its pretty consitent with different gurbani context and it make full theological sense as nothing is confined to one thing, its star war weapon fantasy to think akaal purkh shakti is confined to sri sahib/sword only.. We need to stop downplaying and stop hiding behind our hindu phobias.

Your own reference proves you wrong.

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਜੀ ਸਹਾਇ ॥

स्री भगउती जी सहाइ ॥

May SRI BHAGAUTI JI (The Sword) be Helpful.

In this line Sant ji says Bhaguati means sword.

ਵਾਰ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਭਗਉਤੀ ਜੀ ਕੀ ॥ ਪਾਤਸਾਹੀ ੧੦ ॥

वार स्री भगउती जी की ॥ पातसाही १० ॥

The Poem of Sri Bhagauti Ji (Goddess Durga). (By) Th Tenth Kingg (Guru).

In this line Sant ji says Bhaguati means Chandi. Which means Guru Gobind Singh is about to disclose the story of Chandi (Durga). It is not praising Bhaguati or worshipping, but giving the indication what Guru Sahib is about to disclose to the world.

ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਭਗੌਤੀ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਕੈ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਈਂ ਧਿਆਇ ॥

प्रिथम भगौती सिमरि कै गुरु नानक लईं धिआइ ॥

In the beginning I remember Bhagauti, the Lord (Whose symbol is the sword and then I remember Guru Nanak.

In this line Sant ji addresses the people like yourself and those that think like you and says Guru Sahib is not praising Bhaguati. Here Sant ji says Bhaguati means Vaheguru.

The whole recording is onwww.gurmatveechar.com. Under Puratan Katha and Sant jis name.

3. Make sense from sikh historical point of view/shastar nam mala point of view- shastar puja but overall durga cannot be confined to sri sahib only..

3. Good you agree with Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji.

4. Guru maharaj has praised devi/chandi/durga given credit where its due in various episodes in sri dasam guru granth sahib and overall praised devi same way guru maharaj has praised sun, water, moon, earth- sargun manifestations of akaal purkh-karta purkh-creation is in creator (back drop always remains one).

We don't worship devi, we all know that, in fact from gurmat advait sidhant aspect backdrop essence (tat gyan) -Ikongkar-one universal awareness only remains unchangable/unmovable behind everything, rest is all transient/changing/illusory...so don't take all of this too end all or be all, take it as spiritual development process from sargun to nirgun and move on. I relate more towards nirgun antriv eternal arths of chandi dee //...whatever is outside is inside "(bhagat pipa in sri guru granth sahib ji)

4. Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji says Guru Sahib never praises Devi in Chandi di Vaar. Then he goes on to prove that Guru Sahib does not praise any devta or devi by quoting more Gurbani that is read in the Sampooran Rehras Sahib. Sant ji quotes the following:

mY n gnsih ipRQm mnwaUN

I do not praise or hail Ganesh before I start any

task. (In old times, often Ganesh would be hailed before starting any task).

iksn ibsn kbhU M nih iDAwaUN

Nor do I let the thought of Vishnu or any incarnations of Vishnu (i e Krishna) enter my mind incarnations of Vishnu (i..e Krishna) enter my mind.

kwn sunyy pihcwn n iqn so ]

I know of their existence, but I do not ever worship them.

ilv lwgI morI pg ien so ]2]

May my prayers and thoughts always be in the immaculate holy feet of the Lord (the one and only

Then he also quotes again Bani to say Guru Sahib never praised Devi or Devta the following Bani:

pWie ghy jb qy qumry qb qy koaU AWK qry nhIN AwnXo ]

(O God) since I have fallen at Your Feet I do not care for anybody Feet,

I do not care for anybody else.

rwm rhIm purwn kurwn Anyk khYN mq eyk n mwnXo]

I do not follow the religious ways, preached by various religions, believing in Ram, Mohammad, Puran or Quran.

isimMq swsqR bdy sBY bh Bdy khNY hm eyk n jwnXo ]

The Simritis, Shastras and the Vedas lay down different doctrines but I do not recognise any of these.

Gurbani, your Guru says keep your dyaan(focus) on the Shabad. People that say focus on these body points are misguided.

I have no doubts its means sri sahib (starting bhaugti in chandi di // means sri sahib/vahiguroo no doubt) but same sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale mentions in another location bhaugti to have four meanings which mentioned earlier - depending on the context of shabad.

1. You have not provided a reference. Very dodgy on your part.

2. You must have read or heard him wrong.

3. In the context of Chandi di Vaar Sant ji says it means Sri Sahib and Vaheguru.

4. When Guru sahib say don't praise or worship Bhaugti then he is talking about the devi. Which is most likely why Sant ji would say Bhaugti means Bhaugti.

WJKK WJKF

What is evident is the warrior skill base given to Durga mata by Akal Purakh, hence why this entity was able to defeat the other force being demons created by waheguru again, both these creations are from the basis matter of the god partical.

Just how we as sikhs can credit the khalsa fauj with praise of their achievement in and out of battle, is the very same way that we can praise the Durga mata for her undeniable warrior spirit and skill. This gian and shakti for both the khalsa and Durga mata only capable due to Akal Purakh waheguru, the same also for the demons.

Just because you praise someone or something on the boundaries of sikhi is not blasphemy in a sense. I admire the devotion of the prophet Abraham, this does not make me a member of the Abrahamic faith, the very fact that Durga mata fought against demon spirits with whatever advanced weaponry calls for praise of her actions. They deserve our namashakaar and respect for the era in which this occurred within Akal purakhs "theatre" as do the khalsa and many other people around the world like the soldiers who gave their life's in ww2.

WJKK WJKF

I have already addressed this invalid point you made in a prevoius post. Yet you have not addressed what I have said by quoting Chandi Di Vaar the very Bani we speak of.

Why do you call Durga as Durga mata?

1. Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji goes into detail on what Bhaugati means in the begin of Chandi di Vaar. He says first time the word comes up it means Sri Sahib. Second time it means Vaheguru. The recording is on www.gurmatveechar.com

2. Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji also says others say like poster sikhiseeker, akalinihangguptsingh, and now n3os1ngh that Guru Sahib praised the devi (Durga) but he says these people are wrong and quotes Gurbani to say how wrong they are.

Saying Guru Sahib is praising Durga is a miserable failed attempt at trying to add authority to a point Sant ji does not support.

Additionally this shows not only do they not understand the teachers they supposely learn from but they dont have the knowledge to contemplate over Gurbani by themselves. They rely on second hand knowledge that they cannot verify. So this is a dangerous path to walk on when you cant verify anything.

Before this goes completely side ways. Let's start at the beginning of Chandi di Vaar. Simple question. Why did Vaheguru cause the demons to take over the kingdom of devta? Here is the answer.

ਅਭਿਮਾਨੁ ਉਤਾਰਨ ਦੇਵਤਿਆਂ ਮਹਿਖਾਸੁਰ ਸੁੰਭ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥

अभिमानु उतारन देवतिआं महिखासुर सु्मभ उपाइआ ॥

Mahishasura and Sumbh were created for removing the pride of the gods (Indra, Krishna, Rama, etc).

These devta were full of ego and thought to themselves to be the Supreme Being (no one is greater than us). Before this line Guru Sahib says these devta do not understand Vaheguru. Here it is

ਬਡੇ ਬਡੇ ਮੁਨਿ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਕਈ ਜੁਗ ਤਿਨੀ ਤਨੁ ਤਾਇਆ ॥

बडे बडे मुनि देवते कई जुग तिनी तनु ताइआ ॥

The great sages and gods, even practising great austerities for several ages;

ਕਿਨੀ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੨॥

किनी तेरा अंतु न पाइआ ॥२॥

None could know Thy end.2.

Those that say Guru Sahib is praising Durga need to focus on these lines where Guru Sahib says Krishna and Rama received the power from Vaheguru. The praise goes directly to the one that gave the power not the puppets (devta).

ਤੈ ਹੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਸਾਜਿ ਕੈ ਦੈਤਾ ਦਾ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਇਆ ॥

तै ही दुरगा साजि कै दैता दा नासु कराइआ ॥

O Lord! By creating Durga, Thou hast caused the destruction of demons.

ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਰਾਮ ਲੈ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਣਾ ਦਹਸਿਰੁ ਘਾਇਆ ॥

तैथों ही बलु राम लै नाल बाणा दहसिरु घाइआ ॥

Rama received power from Thee and he killed Ravana with arrows.

ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ ਕੰਸੁ ਕੇਸੀ ਪਕੜਿ ਗਿਰਾਇਆ ॥

तैथों ही बलु क्रिसन लै कंसु केसी पकड़ि गिराइआ ॥

Krishna received power from Thee and he threw down Kansa by catching his hair.

ਬਡੇ ਬਡੇ ਮੁਨਿ ਦੇਵਤੇ ਕਈ ਜੁਗ ਤਿਨੀ ਤਨੁ ਤਾਇਆ ॥

बडे बडे मुनि देवते कई जुग तिनी तनु ताइआ ॥

The great sages and gods, even practising great austerities for several ages;

ਕਿਨੀ ਤੇਰਾ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੨॥

किनी तेरा अंतु न पाइआ ॥२॥

None could know Thy end.2.

I have barely walked into Chandi di Vaar and there are clear instructions not to praise these devta/devis. Durga was created to destroy the demons, but what did Durga do. She also fell victim to pride like here counter part Devta (Krishna, Rama). Let's listen

ਪਉੜੀ ॥

पउड़ी ॥

PAURI

ਦੁਰਗਾ ਬੈਣ ਸੁਣੰਦੀ ਹੱਸੀ ਹੜਹੜਾਇ ॥

दुरगा बैण सुणंदी ह्सी हड़हड़ाइ ॥

Listening to these words (of Indra), Durga laughed heartily.

ਓਹੀ ਸੀਹੁ ਮੰਗਾਇਆ ਰਾਕਸ ਭਖਣਾ ॥

ओही सीहु मंगाइआ राकस भखणा ॥

She sent for that lion, who was she devourer of demons.

ਚਿੰਤਾ ਕਰਹੁ ਨ ਕਾਈ ਦੇਵਾ ਨੂੰ ਆਖਿਆ ॥

चिंता करहु न काई देवा नूं आखिआ ॥

She said to gods, "Do not worry mother any more.

ਰੋਹ ਹੋਈ ਮਹਾ ਮਾਈ ਰਾਕਸਿ ਮਾਰਣੇ ॥੫॥

रोह होई महा माई राकसि मारणे ॥५॥

For killing the demons, the great mother exhibited great fury.5.

Durga laughed in pride saying to Indra I will kill the demons. This is a show of pride no better than Krishna and Rama exihibited. Read Bachittar Natak and Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji says Vaheguru sent me into this world and I could not achieve anything without Vaheguru's blessing. Durga did not realize she is just another pond like Krishna in this chess match. After the above pauri the battle between the demons and Durga begins. Why would Durga praise herself before starting the battle? She is part of creation and not the GREAT MOTHER (CREATOR).

One of the last lines of Chandi di Vaar also makes it clear that Durga is not the mother, but the he who created her is the great mother.

ਚਉਦਹ ਲੋਕਾਂ ਛਾਇਆ ਜਸੁ ਜਗਮਾਤ ਦਾ ॥

चउदह लोकां छाइआ जसु जगमात दा ॥

The praise of the mother of the universe spread over all the fourteen worlds.

At the end of the war Indra was crowned again as the king. No praise was given to Durga for her so called warrior skills. It was a drama staged by Vaheguru to show the devta and devis that you are not in charge here, I am.

Seva Simran

Everyone is objecting to your inability to truthfully speak on Gurbani. You have a slanted opinion to favor a devta that was nothing more than a devta. He was not the supreme being, but is a beggar at the feet of Vaheguru's Bhagats. Krishna made mistakes and these mistakes are written in Gurbani. Supreme Being does not make mistakes.

Why would Guru Sahib praise Durga the goddess?

WJKK WJKF

At the end of Chandi Di Vaar it says "Durga path banaya sabay paurian || Fir na jooni aaya jin eh gaaya ||55||

Is the meaning of this literally how its's translated or does it get deeper? Does it mean mukhti or something else?

Sorry if this's been asked before, I couldn't find an answer.

WJKK WJKF

Read the whole bani. Durga as devi is not praised. Vaheguru is not stuck in good and evil like the devta and devi. The bani is praising the source of shakti and the shakti in the form of weapons. Durga, Indra, and demons are the ponds in this chess match. Both sides do not understand the greatness. In the beginning Indra( considered a god; stressing the word GOD) is unable to fight the demons. So Durga is called to fight the demons. If Durga is praised for being a goddess then her other half God (Indra supreme being according to Hinduism) is to be praised. But wait God Indra couldn't fight his own battle. Indra did not make durga to fight but praised and begged durga.

Don't fall prey to these one liners. Look at the whole scheme of things.

There is no divine consciousness/inner voice other than Gurbani in existence and nothing can match Gurbani. It is called wish full thinking to say to another attune to your intuitive divine consciousness. People that believe in this nonsense are deeply stuck in hankar/ego. They have this idea stuck in their head one day with my own efforts I will be able to attune to my divine consciousness and accomplish the ultimate goal (call it mukhti, unity with the One or whatever). Or they have it stuck in their head a religious book or so called divine person, who knows nothing about Gurbani and practices contrary to Gurbani will lead me to this ultimate goal. They twist, turn, beat Gurbani as an evil sword to get others to bow down to these ridiculous beliefs. Not a single soul ever reached the ultimate goal without Gurbani.

The amount of people that tried to reach the ultimate goal without Gurbani cannot be counted on one hand (Krishna, Vishnu, Brahma, Chandi, Durga, Shiva, Udhasis, list is endless). ALL, not one or two, BUT ALL lost their lives in the gamble. Not one single soul made it. Those that spread this, attune to your divine consciousness beliefs have all turned their backs on Gurbani for good. Their fate is no different. Thousands of times, countless times the Guru says ATTUNE to the Shabad (Gurbani), grab the hem of the Guru, bow at the feet of the Guru. Without attuning to the Shabad there is pitch darkness. These holy men in many different disguises are full of ego. They imply to others worship my beliefs, my thinking, my feet. Yesterday they wore Sadhu clothing, today they wear Sadhu, western, eastern, and many other dresses to trick and fool the masses. Where is the Shabad in their voice, not present even by mistake. Tricky is their first name. They pat each other on the back wishing to be followed. In the presence of Gurbani they will hold to their beliefs. The vedas (Upanishads) utter this nonsense of attune to divine consciousness. A student is only good as its teacher. Upanishads failed miserably to give the Shabad. They could not give it and neither did they receive it. How can anything give something when they did not receive it? These vedas teachers put many restraints on spirituality. They couldn't figure out what true spirituality was, but even the spirituality they learned through their studying they put restraints on. They define spirituality into stages. Now the same people in different garbs are trying to do the same with the Shabad. Shabad is not like a physics course. Shabad flows like a river. Those that are blessed connect in the first breath. They let the river take them for the ride.

Anyways enough from this moorakh. Listen to the below pauri and follow it with everything you have. There is nothing in this wish full thinking of attune to your divine consciousness. Vaheguru (Shabad) rest in everyone, but we need the Shabad (Gurbani) to awaken to it.

What these "attune to your divine consciousness" people are doing is saying when you come out of the womb tell me who your father is? Good luck chicken with your head cut off.

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਆਨੇਰਾ

बिनु सबदै अंतरि आनेरा ॥

Bin sabḏai anṯar ānerā.

Without the Shabad, there is only darkness within.

ਨ ਵਸਤੁ ਲਹੈ ਨ ਚੂਕੈ ਫੇਰਾ

न वसतु लहै न चूकै फेरा ॥

Na vasaṯ lahai na cẖūkai ferā.

The genuine article is not found, and the cycle of reincarnation does not end.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਥਿ ਕੁੰਜੀ ਹੋਰਤੁ ਦਰੁ ਖੁਲੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰੈ ਭਾਗਿ ਮਿਲਾਵਣਿਆ

सतिगुर हथि कुंजी होरतु दरु खुलै नाही गुरु पूरै भागि मिलावणिआ ॥७॥

Saṯgur hath kunjī horaṯ ḏar kẖulai nāhī gur pūrai bẖāg milāvaṇi▫ā. ||7||

The key is in the hands of the True Guru; no one else can open this door. By perfect destiny, He is met. ||7||

Chalo, let's move forward :laugh2:

Can you tell us who opposed them?