One Man Army

very interesting debate. what is pow?

bump!!

Poster!

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Amrit vela kirtan darbar this sunday morning, from 4 till 6! then nitnem follows with Asaa di vaar. Guru Har Rai ji Gurdwara, west bromwich!!!! same as above, let everyone know!!!

the onli muslim i knw mahraaj ses he wudnt trust is arungzeb in zafarnamma. read it, mite clarify things, searchgurbani.com

organise it bro!

:wub: Pritam Singh Khalsa :TH:

GURFATEH

There will be an amritvela program at Siri Guru Har Rai Gurdwara, West Bromwich, UK everyday from now on, 4 til 5am Naam Simran, 5 til 6am Nitnem. Can everyone please come and attend! The tragic lose of the 3 Gursikhs has woken everyone

Gurdwara Guru Har Rai Sahib

126-128 High Street,

West Bromwich,

West Midlands

B70 6JW

0121 525 3275

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=126+High+S...loc=A&hl=en

has n e 1 heard of a baba deep singh ji film coming out 2mro in the uk??? any info on it????

what area in england??

pritam singh, it is obvious that you only know one side of the story, you should try learning the other side as well before posting lies on the internet

umm what other side?? :wub: ohhhh u mean the pro raag mala bani side. :wub:: yaaa lets hear that too then :TH:

But you should read sant gyanee gurbach singh's arth of raagmala, raagmala guru hai, and i once read somestuff writeen by amritpal singh of www.amritworld.com that pretty much proves all the argument given by pritam singh to be wrong. I'm not sure where i read it tho, but if i see it online, i'll post it here

people are always posting stupidness abouthow alam wrote raagmala, without knowing anything who alam was.

and pritam singh is talking about the saroop recited by Guru Gobind Singh Jee out of memory......did unot ever think that if anyone knew where this saroop was that there would obviously be no arguement about raagmala.

and if every bani in guru granth sahib has its author stated at the front, then i guess japjee sahib isnt bani either.

The point im trying to make is that you sholdnt read a couple articles on the internet and come to a conclusion and think you must be 100% right, true gurmukhs such as Sant GUrbachan Singh, Bhai Veer Singh, Sant Isher SIngh, Baba Nand Singh, Baba Bir SIngh, Baba Jawala Singh and contless others all believed in raag mala. Do you thijnk these gursikhs were stupid for believing in raag maalaa? DO you not think they had legitamate reasons for belkieving in it? Then ,maybe you should learn their reasons as well. The kamaee they did in one life, we would be fortunate to do in 1000 lives.

On this subject it is always one word against another.

We all know Mahala pela composed JapJi the Raagless Bani, and Ik Oankar is the Mool mantar. In your case if alam didnt compose it then who did????? The bir from GuruJis memory was hidden or destroyed to further hide the Raag Mala evidence.

You say from all the books and websites and I cant have a personal conclusion but then you say your Amritpal Singh website to be the facts????????? Different Gianis have different opinions and questions. Different websites have different opnions and questions. Different books have guess what? different opinions and questions.I never called anyone stupid over the issue Gianis or papis, I just think it should not be included because it does not fit because Dhan Dhan Guru Arjan dev Ji Shaheedi has the Shabad in all birs. My point is we can onlyadd up the pros and cons and which ever one is heavier will be what the Authority states as fact, and not from our input but from a comitee of GurSikhs chosen by the panth so there is no corruption but a serious court hearing about what the panth should do and say besides just blindly going about knowing there is somewhat of an issue that divides people from within. Once they drop a no matter what hukam for eternity about the issue there is going to be contraversy.

I would completely follow the official hukam with no questions asked!!!!!!

I bow to the shabad Guru

the fact stil remains veer ji that that is Guru mahraaj. If u believe thats Guru Sahib sitting their then do you really think that some next random person could come and sneak raag malla in? or alter Guru Sahib in any shape or form? thats Akaal Purak! theres nothing more powerful or greater. my view is based purely on belief, that that is Guru Gobind Singh ji sitting their. no one has the power to alter anything on mahraaj. no ones as powerful as Guru Sahib.

Puratan guru granth sahibs should be kept in a special museum that could be created just for them. where there are large beds with huge chananis and guru granth sahibs are there. Perhaps if someone wants to see, they can do parkash of saroops, or even have the saroops on manji sahibs like around in different rooms and perhaps a granthi singh that walks around and can do darshan of each for visitors etc..

that would be something..

i dont agree with burning.

i have heard that many sant deras are finding puratan saroops of guru sahib without raag mala and doing saskaar which is wrong. This has been going on for over 20 years I think. and this is exactly the kind of accusation that will go around if we do keep doing saskaar of puratan birs.

Am I the only one wondering why a Puratan 17th Centuray Saroop doesn't include Guru Tegh Bahadur Sahib ji's Bani :T: :T: ?

I'd guess this saroops is Larrivaar?

These Saroops need to be preserved, as well as othe rPuratan Saroops in ONE PLACVE, only THEn can the issue about Raag Mala be solved, and proper Respect for Maharaj be kept

bhull chukik maaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Rag Mala wasnt in the back of any Adi Granths or in the Kartapur Bir after Guru Gobind Singhs revision of the Adi Granth to the Guru Granth. The closing of Guru Granth Sahib is Mundavani Mahala Panjavaan and then a salok. Rag mala has no place being slowly evolved and snuck into Sri Guru Granth Sahib to confuse the panth. The raagnis etc do not corespond to the Raags and raagnis in Guru Granth. I personally beleive that Rag Mala is in no way Gurbani. [[There are 31 pure raags and 6 mixed raags in Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Out of 37 raags, 12 raags do not find any mention in Raag Mala. There are as many as 59 raags and raaginies in Raag Mala which are not included in Sri Guru Granth Sahib.]]

dont know where u get yourinformation from but the actual hand written saroop of Baba Deep Singh ji has ragmala in it, i have seen it with my own eyes!at Damdama sahib. the saroop is authenticised, and has been checkd against all the other saroops written by Baba Deep Singh ji, as well as the panj granthi written by him. do you really think that any one has the power to come and stick an extra arm or leg (extra ang) on Guru Sahib? mahraaj has alot more power then that. that some outsider can come and modify him!wheres the prosa in Mahraaj?

i thought your ment to keep a sri sahib infront of you, and something else aswel, a coconut or something. dno! find out full maryada before starting

sorry for late reply, in india at moment....

i fink lion child was misunderstanding whats being said. i was saying higher status as in a greater value, nothing to do with some people being on different status, but the value it should have to a gursikh. s the same principle with your dastaar, do you see your dastaar as jus cloth?? or do you give it a higher status.... jus the wording used. i fink you get the idea

khalistan_zindabaad goin wooooooooooooooooooooooo

people take it waaay too far, it's really just cloths, it's not like a god or kakkar or something that is higher than all. The gurus did wear it, but did they say their style of clothing was better than everyone elses, no, cause there is little point to it. Of course you can wear it, even i want to put it on one of these days, will i feel as if i am higher than others no? would i treat it as something that can't be touched? no.

wow! amazing to see how highly we fink of banaa!! just cloth!! Banaa is more then just clothes my friend. its the uniform of Guru Sahib. and the uniform of his Sikhs. when wearing bana you are representing Guru Sahib. you are in Guru Sahibs form. it has alot higher status then just clothes. I know people who have done over 125,000 chaupai sahibs in there life and are aged less then 30 and they wont wear banaa because they dont feel that they are worthy of seeing them selves as true Gursikhs. i know many Gursikhs that are doing a lot of paath a day, and still dont wear banaa. do not underestimate how much of a high status banaa has in sikhi.

In reply to the penji that said about the banna and war. the fact is you dont have a choice when in war weather your going to be cut or not. im not saying anything about going to war and wearing banaa. i was sayin about going to the toilet and then doing maharaajs seva without having a shower or changing clothes. n im relating this to banaa as a singh in banaa should always be ready to do mahraajs seva. you have a choice if you go toilet and then do mahraajs seva.

i agree wid all you anti hi5's. i think its jus pow, n Gursikhs shouldnt b on it

gona b an excelent 5 days. i gota feelin this mite be the best camp yet. brilliant site, activities, and a huge amount of people coming!

people wear 2 kareh to represent handcuffs to God. its a constant reminder that your bound to vaheguroo.

the thing is all though a lot of sangat came, there was no where near as much as there should have been. this is Guru Sahib. the only important thing on this planet. lets treat Guru Sahib the way he should be and at any other place when any type of beadbi takes place by attending!! every sikh should be present, whether you amrit dari or not, we all still owe mahraaj everything. no matter what plans we have made for that day. there is nothing more important then stopping Guru Sahibs beadbi! just look how sick these things are getting, Guru Sahib in a suitcase!!! So to all sangat please take out the time to come to stop beadbi next time it is arranged to go down. there is so much beadbi happening, and it is our duty as well as our right to stop them!

forgive daas if said anything wrong or offended anyone.

thanks for that penji

lol yeh rite. childish comments man. bhai sahib, like i said, its down to your own satkar levels. nufing to do with hindusim. if u feel its fine to take a crap n then do mahraajs seva, that up to you. i personally think thats beadbi and feel that utmost levels of cleanliness should be maintained around the king of kings. akaals puraks form. and who said anything about a remote control button. your obviously totally missing the point on what is being said, or may be im just not explaining properly.

bhaji your entiltled to your view but please dont start with the childish your a hinuized sikh blah blah blah.

Gurfateh

read all the post, how could that be terrorism if the hostages are hugging and thanking and speaking of the greatness of the hijackers. this isnt an hijacking in the way we used to seeing. it was a hijacking for attension for the injustices that was occuring. it was one of the only ways to get attension from abroad for the events occuring in amritsar. as all media attension was blocked of, aswel as people leaving and entering punjab! they wanted america to see what was happening. we are totally against the hijacking of a plane, and killing 100s, but this is a total different concept

By the way this is an offstem of the post titled karkoo's!

the guy in brown dastaar, khalsa ji is bhai harjinder singh

just to add on to Gurpreet Singh

There are accounts from hostages that these guys where so great that when letting the hostages go, the hostages where hugging and thanking them for how great they where treated by the hijakers. The accounts also published in pakistani newspapers included reports that the hijakers would offer food, and blankets to the hostages, and even provide food and milk for all. they explained the purpose for the hijaking to hostages, and that they did not intend to hurt any one, apart from a army guy that was on the plane in 84 i think, this was because he attacked them, so he was beaten up.

these singhs are true examples of karkoos, they acted without any doubt for the sikh kaum. they didnt kill innocents.

There actual intentions in 81 was to have Sant Jarnail Singh ji Khalsa released from prision on false allegations, and in 84 was to let the world know of the attack on Sri Harmandar Sahib due to stoppage on media attansion. Both planes where intended to reach America to let the outside world know. as far as i can remember one plane was landed in lahore for refueling, but was then finally compramised by false promises.

VJKK VJKF,

Yes please post the pictures and videos as soon as possible.

I sincerely hope the Swiss Govt doesn't extradite them .

bhai sahib, unfortunatly this will be the case unless action is taken. we may need to organise protests and demonstrations to show the swiss govt that there is outside support for these people, and they are not alone. The hijakers, in switzerland are having a positive effect on the country through sikhi parchaar, and generally attempting to arrange charity events. they are working with great charity leaders of the country (theres one guy whose name i cant remember but is ment to be the equivalent of bhagat puran ji is to us, as he is to the swiss) who these singhs are working closly with to help charities. a demonstration for world peace took place in switzerland when we actually visited, cold drinks and food was distributed in a main town centre, as well as kirtan being performed. there is a great shortage of sikhs in switzerland and the hijackers are paying a great contribution to the upholding of the community there. there are 2 main gurdwara there which are being run and held together by them.

It was amazing to talk to these people. even tho they have hardly anything left, including even a passport, they do not regret there actions one bit. even when asked if they would like to leave switzerland they remain set in there principles that they would rather die then run. sikhi is truely the greatest thing they value. a great example of how all sikhs should be.