Sa1nam

Satkaar (in the religious sense of the word) for Guru Sahib only. The rest are guilty until proven innocent. You'll save yourself many crises of faith and pangs of existential angst.

Not quite where Guru stands on this, but i understand where your coming from

Sant Gurbachan Singh Jee had utmost respect for Bhai Randhir Singh despite very minor differences in rehat.

In Sant Jee's writings and Katha many times you can hear Sant Jee referring to himself as the dust at the feet of those Gurmukhs that keep Rehat and are Guru-Valey.

Below is a poem written by Sant Gurbachan Singh jee on Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh jee in Gurmukh Parkash:

ਦਿੱਹਲੀ ਮੇ ਰਕਾਬ ਗੰਜ ਕੰਧ ਢਾਹੀ ਫਿਰੰਗੀ, ਸਿੰਘ ਸਾਵਧਾਨ ਜਾਗੇ ਸੀਸਾਂ ਤਾਈਂ ਲਾਵਨੇ ।

In Dehli, foreigners (the British) tore down a wall at Gurdwara Sahib Rakab Ganj, the Singhs ( Bhai Sahibs Jatha) became aware of this and were ready to die to protect the Gurdwara Sahib.

ਭਾਈ ਰਣਧੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਸੀਸ ਦੇਣ ਆਪ ਗਏ, ਕੰਧ ਉਸਰਾਲੀ ਫੇਰ ਮੋਨੀ ਘਬਰਾਵਨੇ ।

Bhai Randhir Singh jee went himself to give his life and protect the Gurdwara Sahib,

ਸੰਤ ਰਣਧੀਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਨਾਮੁ ਲਿਵਲਾਈ ਜਿਨਾਂ, ਕੀਰਤਨ ਅਖੰਡ ਕਰੈ ਮਨ ਤ੍ਰਿਪਤਾਵਨੇ ।

Sant Randhir Singh jee is a Naam Abhiyaasee Gurmukh, and does Akhand Keertan to his heart's content

ਸਤਰਾਂ ਸਾਲ ਜੇਲ ਕਟੀ ਸਰਬ ਲੋਹ ਬੀਚ ਛਕੈ, ਧੰਨ ਗੁਰੂ ਪਿਆਰੇ ਮਨ ਤਨ ਰੰਗ ਗਾਵਨੇ ।।੭੭ ।।

For 17 years he was imprisoned but still kept a strong Sarbloh Pehra, Great and Blessed are those beloved Gumukhs that are physically and mentally imbued with the love of Akaal Purakh.

The ones that have nothing better to do argue over minute and frankly unimportant points in the grand scheme of things. The majority of Singh's in India do not discuss this nonsense, it was the hot headed youth in the West that stoked these subjects all over the forums and in little groups in Gurdwarey, with no end result and nothing to show for it. Empty vessels they say make the loudest noises.

Ignore and continue with main principles of Sikhi and you'll be fine. I can say all this as I used to have blinkered thinking in the past as well, but that was haumai getting in the way. Get on with everyone and take all the positive elements but no need to disrespect other Singhs or their rehat.

Sorry to say baji but your own argument has flaws in it, it wasnt these so called youngsters who started any controversy or were challenging what is and is not gurbani it was Bhai Randeer singh jee.

Im in no way bashing any group, akj or other, just when looking at facts and statement there is a right and wrong answer, There is no dualism in Gurbani

Maybe this is a wake up call for everyone who put people on pedestals and later find out there not the people who should have been there in the 1st place.

Sat-kaar is only given to Sants and people of higher avaatas in Sikhi

"Hukam n jaapee khasam kaa kisai vaddaaee dhaee"

There is a clear definition by Guru shiab on who he would lay his own head to. Its someone who knows and has been to Nirinkaars desh

I've read similar articles, there does seem to be a correlation between intelligence and religious belief

"A survey of Royal Society fellows found that only 3.3 per cent believed in God"

"A separate poll in the 90s found only 7 per cent of members of the American National Academy of Sciences believed in God"

Imo most people who believe in there own brand of religion dont actually belief in the tenets of there religion, in the 2011 census 59.3 down from 71.7% in 2001 identified them selves as christian.

From the 100% of only 32 per cent of the census “Christians” believe in the resurrection of Jesus. Only 35 per cent could pick out the correct answer to “What is the first book of the New Testament?” when given a 4-way choice of Matthew, Genesis, Acts, Psalms. When asked why they had ticked the Christian box, only 28 per cent of those who did so said it was because they believe the teachings of Christianity. The most popular answer to that question was, “I like to think of myself as a good person.” What? You ticked the Christian box because you like to think of yourself as a good person? Are you serious? Do you think atheists, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists don’t think of themselves as good people?

Great we need more Gursikhs like this questioning these so called leaders of our Faith, the slow decline of sikhism has gone under the radar

Well its simple one of the groups has to be right, but the way our culture works we do not openly disagree with people we believe to be esteemed gursikhs, also imagine if we come to a agreement that Raag Mala is Bani, the whole Akj movement would slowly fall apart, as if Bhai Randeer was wrong on this what else could be wrong about.

The best way to go about this is to follow Gurmukhs who have reached Nijghar these are true Gurmukhs, by the definition of Gurbani. Not so easy to find, gurbani says there are 1 in a million but the way to know a fake from a true Gurmukh is told with gurbani.

Well this is extremely inconsistent, they allow people from the Nirankari cult to do kirtan on the stages within Guru Ghar, or people with cut hair and or may eat meat, but we ban Bhai Balbir Singh from doing so. If there is ruling against him it should apply to all the rule breaking Sikhs, start with the high profile ones first, eg. Bhai Baljit Namdhari.

Yes Read Sidh Ghoosth, though also read Anadh shaib

a clean spoon :D

Sorry for the hiatus, busy with worldly distractions

Thank you to everyone who replied back

My reason on starting this topic was to get peoples insight on what you believe about religion, as science's drive is to also to come to a understanding of the universe and to move our knowledge further for better or for worse.

So my question is, Have you come across something in your field or in general that contradicts your belief in religion or faith, if so how did you square it mentally.

After reading most of the post and watching the Vid there is something there to discuss and for the "right" people i.e a lawyer to maybe take up the allegations, though a forced kiss isnt going to hold up in a court of law.

This may have taken place but having this group of people representing her doesnt help her case as it feels as they have made up there minds and are now in the process of spreading what they believe to be the proof, rather than being a neutral body, i give some respect for being there to help this Bibi in her time of need right or wrong.

Due process is needed here especially with such a high profile figure

Hello Sangat jee

Im interested in a conversation with any fellow sikhs who have Graduated in the Sciences about there subjects and there thoughts on Religion

@someone I can understand someone would want to ask his or her fellow sangat about some mental issues, but its best to get Expert advice from a doctor in your local area, best not to talk to your family just yet they may not fully understand.

If you are interested in what Guru Bani says about the mental state it should be calm without noises "thoughts" doing Path/Simran

I'll be tracking this topic if you reply back, the sangat is here for you and ill do my best to answer any question i can.

Vaheguru