singhni84

Haha...will their Sikhi be affected?? Perhaps not if they're both tyaar bar tyaar, Naam abhyaasi, jyot vigaasi Gursikhs. But I doubt any such Gursikhs would be in that type of situation to begin with.

It may very well have been a general question. I don't know. I just think there's not much point discussing it on a Sikh forum unless we're going to discuss it in relation to Sikhi and formulate our responses based on Gurmat principles.

I think we're all discussing in terms of Sikhism. If we're not, we should be.

Just speculating here...but maybe it's because those who engage in a "love marriage" may not have followed Gurmat 100%, so breaking the ardaas and the laavan that bound them together isn't that big of a deal to them if they weren't steadily on the Gurmat path to begin with. On the other hand, someone who follows Gurmat and has an arranged marriage may value the ardaas done to bind them to their spouse, so through hardship and difficulty etc, they stick to their commitment to their spouse and to the ardaas and laavan...so less divorce.

Regaring handling meat: if we consider meat to be like poison for ourselves, how can we serve it to others? If it's poison, what kind of paap are we accumulating by serving it to others?

It's unfortunate that you define success based on what you do for a living alone. At the end of the day, it's really nothing more than a title. A doctor may get more worldly status in this life, but of what value is it in the long-run? How prestigious your worldly job is now is of no value in the hereafter. Concentrate on what really counts. As far as I can judge from the doctors I know, they have very little time for family and for Sikhi. At least in customer service, you have a job at which you can spend your day japping naam or reciting baani, helping people without too much stress, and you work regular hours most likely without having to be "on call", etc. It's kind of sucky comparing yourself to others though. It's bound to cause depression. Everyone is different and has different circumstances. We only see the situations of others through our own eyes but without walking in their shoes....how do you know they're happy with who and what they are? "Is the grass really greener on the other side?" If you're unhappy with your current position though, there's nothing stopping you from changing it. Go back to school or apply for other jobs. Customer service experience can be utilized in tons of different fields, even if it seems irrelevant. Getting a job you like is partially about how you frame your resume and how you portray the experience/skills you possess to reflect relevance to the position you want.

In Canada, we have laws governing how call centres operate. If you don't want them calling you, you simply say, "please take me off your calling list and add me to your do-not-call list." Doing things like hanging up, pretending to be an answering machine, or saying you're not interested simply puts your number back into the system so someone is definately going to call you back to try again. This is because most companies don't dial numbers manually...they're dialing through a computer which requires every call to be coded with an outcome. So whoever calls you will code the call as things like "answering machine" so you'll get called again in order for them to try to speak to a person, or "call again" if they didn't get the chance to complete their spiel because you cut them off or hung-up, or "not qualified" if you don't sound like the actual homeowner. Basically, the only way to get your number NOT called repeatedly is to either get your name removed from the lists (refer to my first paragraph), or to BUY whatever they're selling...in which case they'll stop calling you until your subscription runs out...then they'll start from square one all over again!!

I wasn't saying that there IS a set rule in AKJ to marry only within AKJ. I said it would be common sense to do so in order to marry someone who follows the same rehit as yourself. It isn't about Jatha title, it's about rehit. As for simran on vaaja, I'm not sure what relevance the following sentence has: "I know plenty of amritdharis who do this all time". I'm sure we all know amritdharis who do all sorts of things we'd unanimously classify as "wrong". It's not about how MANY people do something which defines it as right or wrong. Gurmat isn't about the popularity of principles. If Sikhi is indeed sharper than the edge of a sword and finer than a hair, then indeed very few people would find it and walk that line. If you've been taught a technique for japping naam, you should use that technique. Amrit sinchaars held "by" AKJ do not teach abhilakhees to japp naam on a vaaja, so it is wrong to do so when they've been taught otherwise. If you've never been taught a technique for japping naam, then I suppose you can and would ultimately have no choice but to japp it any which way you can.

First of all, what kind of fool takes ONE individual's view and makes it a fact of all facts to represent an entire Jatha of people situated all around the world? Truth, I'll try to reply to your points here: 1) If your friend said, "Oh no I can't [sing], I'm not with this Jatha", does that make it an actual rule of the Jatha that you must "belong" to the jatha in order to sing along?? What nonsense. Think about it -- how would any such rule possibly be enforced? Security roaming around the sangat asking you to show identification before granting permission to sing?? At any rate, if you're referring to Akhand Keertani Jatha (AKJ), their smagams and keertans are attended by all sorts of people, including those who have not received Amrit and those who know nothing about what any Jatha even is. AKJ keertan is unique in that it is Sangatee Keertan -- that is, the ENTIRE sangat sings along. So the claim of your friend that "not being with the Jatha" means you can't sing along to the Keertan is absurd and completely unfounded. 2) In regards to marrying "within the Jatha", it's really only common sense and has more to do with rehit than anything else. Every sincere Sikh who hopes to excel on the path of Gurmat would want a spouse who follows the same rehit as them so that they can work together in the same way towards the shared common goal of meeting Akaal. Two people steering a boat by rowing in opposite directions will surely get SOMEWHERE, but rowing in the same direction towards a unanimous destination will get you there much faster and easier. 3) I don't agree with simran of Waheguru being done on the vaaja and in keertan. The punj pyaaray teach a method of reciting naam and it doesn't include a vaaja, nor is it right to intentionally break apart a shabad with injections of words or pankitis that aren't originally in the shabad. 4) The only time I hear ANY raag keertan in Gurdwaras is if I'm attending a program specifically organized for Raag keertan to be displayed (ie. a raag darbaar) or if I go out of my way to attend to hear a keertani who does raag keertan only. You speak as though Raag keertan is commonplace today and this Jatha happens to be the only one who strays. 5) People have already addressed the Sarbloh/Bibek issue above. Ideally, langar in all Gurdwara Sahibs should be prepared and served by Gurmukhs and served in Sarbloh dishes so that the entire sangat can partake in a single langar. 6) Regarding 24 hour smagams going against rehit...umm...unless your rehit states you should not be engrossed in naam and baani din raat, day and night, then I can't grasp how you can make such a claim. Amrtivela consists of reciting naam, which was apparently what you've stated was occuring at this smagam. Please remind me where this violates rehit. After rainsubhaaees where sangat is up all night reciting naam and baani, when te program ends, everyone does ishnaan and nitnem before sleeping. There's nothing wrong with sleeping in the daytime after doing ishnaan and amritvela. 7) "Rather it is also being used as a political movement." -- If this is true, then I say it's GREAT!!! Who could ask for anything more than the opportunity to be Sant AND Sipahi...and a political movement based on naam and baani with sevaa, simran and amritvela!?! Wicked!!! 8) "For those of you in Jathas....I hope I have struck a chord within you to try to change this mentality." I think it's more important to change this mentality of people who find any little thing to attack a Jatha and Gursikhs who follow rehit and stay coloured in naam. Try to understand before attacking and then you'll realize your attack is nonsense.

No one is born a Sikh. We are all converted to Sikhism before becoming and calling ourselves Sikhs. Initiation into the faith is the very first rehit: "Pratham rehit yeh jaan khanday kee pahul chhakae || Soee Singh pardhaan avar na pahul jo leae ||" (To drink Khanda dee pahul (Amrit) is the primary instruction for the Sikh. He who abandons all other initiations is truly a great Sikh.) - Bhai Desa Singh Rehitnaama.

A little story... Recently, for a wedding, some family members picked up some sweets from a local Indian store where they had never been before, so they weren't known to the store owners or anything. Seeing how stressed my relatives were, the owner let them leave without paying and told them it's okay and they can return when the wedding was over to pay up. The amount of sweets they took from the store was like hundreds of dollars worth, I'm not talking about a box for $2.00. So anyways, the owner didn't take any contact info or anything, but seeing that they were Sikhs, knew that they'd return to settle the bill, and indeed they did the following week. But a Sikh should have such integrity that when people see you, they know you aren't going to screw them over. And a Sikh should always uphold that image. So if you say you'll pay it back, you'll pay it back.

You could do it like "borrowing" or on "credit", ie. take the food and then pay it back as soon as you're able to.

I assume people have submitted info through this service. Can admin confirm and also answer the questions posted here in regards to procedure etc?

"Killah", with all due respect, what the heck is your problem?? If you don't believe, no one is forcing you to, but before you ask it to the original poster, I have to ask you what really is YOUR agenda and what do YOU hope to achieve through your posts?? What a ludicrous accusation. She hasn't said anything about males in general, no generalizations, nor has she shown much frustration or attacked the perpetrators. If anything, you sound too defensive...but I won't bother treading down that path. But please take a moment to explore within yourself why you're so doubtful and skeptical and also why you're so defensive. Again, with all du respect...what kind of an <banned word filter activated> are you?? This isn't something that needs to be confined to just within the bhainjee's on this forum. You can keep your head in the sand as long as you want, but sooner or later, you need to wake up (perhaps grow up) and realize what's really going on around you. The poster didn't really ask for advice. She's simply sharing what happened to her. It could be to raise awareness, a bit of which surely wouldn't hurt you. It would be problematic if the post had named people point blank or given descriptions through which we could all easily identify who she was talking about. But why are you throwing a fit about bandwagons and evidence etc, when she hasn't even accused anyone in particular that we could possibly identify and link to the crime? Again, if you don't want to believe it, don't. You're entitled to your opinion. But don't try to silence others with accusations of false agendas and hatred towards males etc. It's such a typical, yet immature reaction. Grow up.

har naam hamaaraa bhojan shhatheeh parakaar jith khaaeiai ham ko thripath bhee || The Lord's Name is my food; eating the thirty-six varieties of it, I am satisfied and satiated.

Could you please provide details of the procedures you've set and what you've got in mind exactly in terms of outcomes etc.? How will you investigate? How will you prevent future occurrances? What are you really going to do?

It wasn't directed at you. I agree largely with what you've written.

Some general stuff: 1) When replying to topics of a sensitive nature like this, people (Khalsaforce) need to be careful not to out information about the poster which she herself has not disclosed (ie. location). It's not fair to her when she's had the courage to write in the first place and has made the choice to share whatever details she wanted to share. Fear of people finding out more than what one WANTS people to know is one of the leading reasons for why so few victims of this type of assault ever speak up about it. I realize it was probably an innocent slip, but it can be detrimental to no end so please be careful and mindful of people’s privacy. 2) Questioning the authenticity of the poster is beyond idiotic. Do people REALLY doubt that this happens?? Wake up already. For how many years have bibian been claiming that things happened? When will you believe? Honestly, sometimes I think each and every one of us has to experience it first-hand before we believe one another. Sad. Anyways... Bhain Jee (original poster), I believe you and whether you believe it or not, you're not alone. It's good that you have friends you can lean on for support. That's important. But it's not everything. Most women in your position feel a sense of lost power and control. A good way to address that feeling is to act against it, do something about it. It’s in your hands to take control of the situation now. From what I’ve seen, keeping this “within the community” won’t be very productive. Sure, they’ll be ousted from their positions and outed in the community, but along the way to that outcome, you’ll face a lot of what you’ve faced here – doubt. People won’t believe. They don’t want to believe. As scary as it may seem, taking it to the police is the wisest thing you could do. These people who violated you are criminals. They can be dealt with through the community, but will be better dealt with by authorities because authorities know how to take care of you in the process as well. The perpetrators of these crimes against you need to be locked up and kept away from children and vulnerable victims. Once the police have a record of these guys, it can help prevent this from happening to countless others. There’s a lot of help available, to look after you and your needs. Your guilt is one thing that definately needs to go. If you’re in the Toronto area, you can determine what you need and find it yourself from this site: www.211Toronto.ca. It’s a community service directory where you’ll find what you’re looking for, if you’re looking, that is. I work at Riverdale Immigrant Women’s Centre and volunteer in various women’s centres in and around the GTA, so if you are in Ontario or the general Toronto area, you can contact me for direct service (counselling, etc.), or I can refer you to a different service of your choice. Let me know and I’ll provide you with my contact info. You may already know who I am, in which case, drop me a line and I’ll do whatever I can.

Talk about how the marriage signifies the more important wedding with Waheguru and how the couple should work together to strive towards that greater goal of union with God. Talk about the shabad "Toa pallai tendee laagee" and how it isn't the bride grasping the groom's palla, but the both of them grasping onto the Guru's palla. I've also been tempted to point out at weddings that the centre is and always should remain on Guru Sahib. While the camera and video people, the guests and family all run around the bride and groom, we should maintain utmost respect for Guru Sahib in the diwan because that is indeed the centre of the marriage taking place, not the actual couple.

It's messed up in my opinion. You start with the churra and next thing you know, they've tied tiny coconut halves to your wrists. Honestly now, it's just silly. The few weddings I've seen where the girl wears a churra, it's a total pain and nuisance to her. She can't take it off till it breaks off (which can be many many many months) and it usually cuts her hand/arm up. Nasty stuff. Sensibly, it isn't very sensible. It's got nothing to do with Sikhi and I can't for the life of me picture a singhni wearing anything of the sort.

Singhnis should wear a keski that covers their entire head...unless we're going to start accepting Singhs with only half their head covered and the rest of their head/hair bare.

Don't do it!! From what I've seen in similar situations, once you compromise one thing, there's no end in sight. Where will it end? Today you "compromise" by taking off your keski, tomorrow it could be your kes, what will go the next day? It isn't a compromise of any sort. Compromise constitutes accomodation from both sides, not you losing yourself in order to please another. I know it's tough and it seems like this would be the easiest thing to rid yourself of the stress and trouble it's bringing to you, but it really is only the beginning of a long road of trouble that will come ahead. If keski is a critical part of who and what you are, and your future spouse/family is unwilling to accept that, is this really what you want to marry into? You can and should put your foot down NOW before things go any farther. As for those who were supposed to represent you -- if they've failed you, they surely aren't the only ones in the world who can look after your best interests and your concerns for rehit. Before you can expect others to look out for those interests though, YOU need to look after them yourself.

That was easy :D

As a Sikh woman who wears a dastaar, I think saying we should look "like a lady" is disturbing. All Sikhs should look like a Khalsa and a Khalsa is meant to look like the roop of Guru Gobind Singh. Looking like a "lady"...and then looking like the daughter of Guru Gobind Singh, a Khalsa, a Singhni -- these are two very distinct things. Also, I've never heard anyone refer to a non-dastaar-wearing man as a "Sardar", so then how can a non-dastaar-wearing woman be a "Sardarni"? One thing I've always noticed...when people convert to Sikhi from other religions, they have always worn a dastaar (men AND women). It is an essential part of their transformation to becoming a Sikh and seems undisputed in the communities of converted Sikhs. When they convert to becoming a Sikh and join the Khalsa, one of the first things they do is don their crown. It is a critical element of the very identity.

>how fast can she run a marathon? Probably faster than you