Manchester_Sikhi

Maybe it's just me being silly but what does the word KURBANI mean? Is it just GURBANI but spelt like the way they (my parents) pronounce Amritsar (Ambarsaar)??

LOL, trust someone to jump straight onto the negative!!! Of course they are well known for smoking weed etc etc. It was just interesting to see a quote like that in the Bible/Torah, if somehwat vague!!!!

Whilst listening to an internet radio station, I overheard a song being played which focused on the unity of certains teachings between Rastafarians and Sikh, with particular emphasis on the hair (Rasta's also keep the hair and beard). I found an interesting quote from Wikipedia which reads as follows: "....The wearing of dreadlocks is very closely associated with the movement, though not universal among (or exclusive to) its adherents. Rastas believe dreadlocks to be supported by Leviticus 21:5 ("They shall not make baldness upon their head, neither shall they shave off the corner of their beard, nor make any cuttings in the flesh.") and the Nazarite vow in Numbers 6:5 ("All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow.")..... " Just wanted to share that interesting viewpoint with you, I shall look into this idea of not cutting the hair on the head as stated in Leviticus and keep you posted.

I like the way the poster of this thread assumed it was down to Hindus...he/she must be working for the investigation team at the site in India and has concrete evidence it was down to Hindus...correct me if I am wrong though!

Just wondering if it is possible to tie a dhumalla without having a full jura? I've started keeping my dhari and kesh but my hair isn't long enough to tie a jura. How would I get the height on the dhumalla? Any suggestions?

Defining others is An Infringement on Freedom to practice a Faith of Choice Dr (Bhai)Harbans Lal The discussion on who else is a better or worse Sikh is contradictory to the Guru's teachings; Guru wanted us to engage in evaluating ourselves and leave it to the Guru to judge others or to covert others. Sikhs, in their half a millennium of history, yielded neither to pressure nor temptation to convert. Their Muslim rulers tried their utmost to both tempt them with treasury and women, and hunt them for their heads to collect monetary awards, but Sikhs remained steadfast to not surrendering their faith. Similarly, their Hindu neighbors showed them glitters of ancient philosophies and timeless scriptures if they only accepted to be one of their own. Sikhs stood steadfast on their Guru's path throughout these challenges. Sikhs similarly declined to coax any one else in joining either their mainstream or any Sikh sect. I am referring to Sikh sects not for the reason that they are there for recognition - Sikh theology is neither subject to sect formation nor does it favor any sect already existing - I am merely referring to the warring factions being formed among Sikhs either on the basis of diverse interpretation of Sikh history or for reasons only known to mushrooming aspirants of the gurdwara leadership. The Sikh Gurus were content if each one followed their own faith sincerely; they only encouraged people to sort out the true spirituality from rituals and artifacts that had crept into religion with time, or those introduced by cunning clerics who continually plot against innocent people to promote their own brand of faith as a commerce. Then why is it that some khande-de-pahul-dharis are adamant in defining themselves as Guru roop, meaning those resembling the look of the Guru, and their Sehajdhari kinds as less than even a Sikh? Similarly, Sehajdharis in turn are beginning to blame the pahul-dhari as reincarnation of masands and mahants who are responsible for mismanaging gurdwaras and other Sikh institutions for transient gains, either personal or political. We all know that, in Sikhism, Guru roop is not any human form but is exclusively the Guru-shabad. The eternal Guru, Sri Guru Granth Sahib, provides ample support for this assertion. In Sikhe, for any mortal to claim Guru roop would be blasphemy. Further, a Sikh is only the one who wants to be one for reasons very personal to his or her soul; they are usually longing for the light of the Guru's wisdom. One is not a Sikh because one is either born to be so or was coaxed to be one. Similarly, gurdwara mismanagement is not the sole legacy of any one section of the Sikhs. Sehajdharis did their share before the Gurdwara Act was enacted and pahul-dharis are making up their speed now. Neither one is corrupt because of their affiliation; there are black sheep among all. The Sikh community will take care of the current masands as they did in the case of old mahants. We simply have to debar from office those who are corrupt, no matter what shape or form they belong to. Instead we must face the bigger challenges. That is, others must not define us as we do not define them. Sikhs have suffered a lot and are continuously suffering from onslaught of others. Others continually pigeonhole us into either one sect or the other sect of some other faith. Sikhs often detest that treatment and defend their identity with all their strength including their lives. As a result, they would never do the same to others within or outside their fold to define them one way or the other. Our ninth Guru gave his life to defend religious freedom knowingly that religious freedom would always breed diversity of beliefs and practices. Sikhs always remember their Guru's sermon and his sacrifice to defend this principle. As recently as in the year 2000 when Sikh leaders participated in the UN Summit of World Religious Leaders, the Sikh representatives took a lead in making this very point. They contacted, through a memorandum, the UN leadership to stop Hindus to define Sikhs and promised that the Sikhs would never do the same to define others. Their position paper on stopping people from defining each other was accepted for circulation among a thousand or so delegates. I was one of those who circulated the memorandum among delegates in the assembly hall and their staff in the hallways. A resolution based upon the memorandum was moved and passed in the general body meeting at the end of the Summit. It was intended to be incorporated in the guiding principles. This event has brought to the forefront Sikh openness and universality in a positive light. More importantly, it did a world of good to the Sikhs' positive contribution to a world of religious pluralism. Then, has the time not come for all the Sikh protagonists to stop flogging the horse of "differences from other co-religionists" and let the larger purpose of promoting the light of Sri Guru Granth Sahib shine on every one's heart? We will then be known to guide the spiritual future of the twenty-first century. Such a re-appraisal is long overdue because degrading one Sikh in favor of another is now permitting the politicization of what were only the inter-denominational issues. This degradation is a bad publicity of Sikh leadership and certainly a bad influence on Sikh youth. The first essential step in the right direction is to demystify the superficial differences itself. In the teachings of the Guru Granth, there is abundant evidence to back up that a sectarian label on someone never had any standing in the Guru's teachings. All the evidence suggests that our founders cared only for the actions in the life that pursued the human goals of achieving divine consciousness. External differences, minor variations in interpretation of religious history, conformation to any particular ritual, and claim of any superiority over others were never a part of the Guru's vocabulary. Furthermore, the Sikh faith isn't governed by history where it is not supported by their authentic scripture manifested in the Guru Granth. Using any historical event that is not authenticated for the purpose of defining others will be a trespass of the theology eternally immortalized in the Granth and will cause an irreparable damage. We must not allow any one else to impose definitions on us. Dr (Bhai) Harbans Lal is a distinguished Pharmacologist and a recognised scholar of Sikhism. He has been published in all the major Sikh journals. His present interests lie in promoting Sikh Studies in North America.

This is an example of one of those really pointless arguments. He IS a Sikh....maybe not a AmritDhari Sikh, but there are MANY Sikhs who are Sehjadhari. I found this site that may interest some of those who may look down upon those who are hair cut (I was a haircut but now keep my Kesh and beard, my family are haircuts and I respect them and all my haircut friends): http://www.sehajdhari.co.uk/ This guy needs our support, just because he doesnt keep his beard and dastaar doesnt make him any less of a person. Equality describe Sikhi, so why doesnt this apply to people who cut their hair? Come on people, we are not all on the same level in terms of our Sikhi, and Sehjadhari's are those people who will hopefully one day become true Khalsa Sikh, but in the mean time they are taking their time and, through our help, will one day become Khalsa Sikhs. Show are kindness that is at the heart of a Sikh and give this guy support rather them looking down upon him!!!

There seems to be a lot of hesitation around what this person is planning on doing. I think its a great idea! Many people just don't know anything about SIkhi, I'm always getting asked if I'm a muslim... I think by having a combination of ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS of Gurbani (highlighted the beautiful messages within Gurbani) and also some basics principles about Sikhs and Sikhi is a wonderful idea. The argument about printing on paper and discarding is valid to some extent, but in the digital era can you explain what we do with webpages or online media citing Gurbani? How do we dispose of them? To spread the word...and belive me the word NEEDS to be spread (contry to those who think Sikhi is perfectly fine without needing any of us to go out and bring the flock back in)....we need things like this to occur..we need to educate people about who we are and what we stand for. We need to move forward and embrace some changes in our attitudes...change is always good and is natural. If we move forward, change our ideas on how to promote Sikhi WHILST keep try to the principles of Gurmat...whats the issue?????

Let me first empahsie that I am a firm beliver in Sikhi and its values. However, what happened before Sikhi? For those who are stern belivers in Sikhi being the only true way to God....what happened before Sikhi was 'created' by Guru Nanak Ji? I for one belive that Sikhi isn't the only way to reach God...in the sense of adopting the man-made religions of the world. It seems Naam (the divine word and listing for that Naam when meditating, Japping etc etc) is the common link between us but some religions are twisted by men into making less of this particular aspect (aka Christianity). I was just curious to see what those who think Sikhi is the ONE and ONLY true way, think that way? Adding onto this, and its a little off topic, but how many of us are actually proud to be Indian? I'm British Indian....but I feel proud to be Indian. I am aware of the issues a lot of people have with the GOVERNMENT of India....but we have the greatest and most richest culture and community and religions in India dates back thousands of years and its such a great culture/lifestyle that I really think we should make more of it rather then bashing away at how crap India is because of the Government....

Also, avoid things like vege burgers from kebab shops or even chips from a chip shop or kebab shop as these would often have been fried in the same oil as meat/fish. Do not eat Quorn as its got egg in it...avoid most cakes...lol....there is a lot you havent to avoid. Oh, places like Subway too.... Finally, just cause it says the food is ok for vegetarians doesnt necessarily mean its egg free... a lot of vegetarian food is labelled with egg in it so try and either double check for yourself...rather then relying on the V sign....or stick with vegan friendly food labels.

good point, but what if this was a collection or normal house mates...which most of them baring the US folks are...the brit girls are all common as muck!!! What if this was a set of normal people, and there were comments and abuse like that towards a UK-Indian girl.... Granted shes a star, but if you ignore that point (and from the point of view of the others in the house shes a no-body) then we should treat her as any normal person...and from that point of view she does not deserve this treatment.....no body does. But you have all made good points and thanks for the responses.

Thats really the point. I've come across lots of gore making a stand...but only a handful of asian doing so, most of my mates don't care about it, thankfully ketih vaz (MP) has brought it up in the commons, but what are the rest of us asians doing?

Who cares? Big Brother is RUBBISH, I agree.....but the racism and taunts partly because of her race....(partly because its the usual female bitchy thing---without sounding sexist) are totally wrong and injust. But the point i was trying to raise is one of racism....the comments include things some of the female housemates refusing to call her by her name simply because they cannot pronounce in and instead calling her ' The Indian', not eating her the food that she cooked because she doesnt know where her hands have been, shes been apparantly called a "a Paki" which channel 4 bleeped out etc etc The list goes on. As a mainstream TV program they should be doing more to protecting asians and NOT to enhance what we Western Indians have experienced for years whilst being away from the motherland. What makes it all the more prominant is the fact that 14000 people have complained so far, lots of the non-Indian and the Indian government and folks back home have also been complaining about it to the UK Goverment and Channel 4. I just think to sit around and ignore the issue...even though BB itself is RUBBISH....we will be kicking ourselves in the back... Just my 50cents...not linked to SIkhi so sorry for that but just wanted to raise the point of us NOT being passive in life and the fact that we should always make a stand for what is right and prevent discrimination towards ALL people....values I'm sure our GuruJi's would have wanted us to follow.

OK, so it's not linked to Sikhi at all, but just hoped that some of the UK folk here agree with me with the racist/bullying treatment Shilpa is getting the BB house. I've always detested BB but I watched some of those comments by Jade et al and frankly it's disgusting....hope some of your guys send your complaints into Ofcom/Channel 4...there have been over 14,000 complaints so far about it, mainly by non-asian UK people...we should really be doing something too as uk-indians. But anyway, enough of the rant, this is the bit linked kinda linked to this forum, i found this interesting quote from the Indian government about the situation in the BB house: Indian government "apprised" of Shilpa situation Day 15, 10:21 UTC - by James Welsh The Indian government is "looking into all the aspects" of Shilpa's experience in the Big Brother house. "We have been apprised of the matter," the country's minister of state for external affairs Anand Sharma told The Times of India today. "The world knows that India has throughout firmly rejected all forms of discrimination and racism. http://bigbrother.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds11582.html Does the world really know that Indian rejected all forms of discrimination and racism.....i doubt it.....

Yeah, this does sound a little bit suss to me....the topic is way out of the ordinary, not related to sikhi and just weird.... MAybe we have a RSS agent amongst us...hmmm...?!?!?!

Hope you guys realise we are just as bad....aka fighting in Gudware, drinking, smoking, drugs, Beadi's, bhangra displays etc etc etc etc etc need I say any more? It is US who are bathing in the sewers

Think this post is pointless other then to cause more division between Sikhi and other religions...let the hindus bathe in the Ganges....it doesnt harm our Sikhi does it? Why can't we just learn to respect other peoples religions and beliefs rather then running in with guns blazing and hoping to get a few people to follow. It's VERY pathetic.

Just plain stupid...no ifs no buts no need to delve deeper.....just plain damned stupid....!!!!

You should also consider doing thins for weddings, such as flower arrangements, decorations etc....I know it not direclty linked to SIkhi, but my Gursikh fiance is great with her artwork and can do amazing flower arrangements and decorations for wedding halls etc etc...

Hi I thnik you're best bet would be to look at something like DTFBOOKS, which is located in birmingham and they have a good website aswell. You should see what similar and different things you can sell compared to them. They seem to make quite a healthy profit on books and other items printed and imported from India...e.g. books cost 60 RS in Indian and they seel for maybe 6-10 pounds here.... If you could get a good importing system you could get either a great profit going to build your business and make money or sell things dirt cheep and breakeven. A bookshop/CD(Bania/Shabads)/ART PRINTS and artefact shop would be great. Espicially the artwork, I havent seen many Sikhi related artwork shops.

Its hard for us veges you know! I mean much harder then you probably have thought. If you are pura vege....then its best to avoid anywhere involed in frying food...e.g. burgers and chips...espicially chippies...as they probably fry meat and fish in the same fat. Even Subway its damned stupid as they handle and 'grab' the salads with the same gloves that they used to serve up the previous customers 'BLT-meat feast super duper cow sandiwsh'. Same with pizaa places, the roller they used to cut the pizaa probably has been used to cut a meat based pizaa.... It just goes on and on and on.... I have to admit to sucummbing to eating at one of two of the above places and thinking about it, we have to be really careful. LOL, if you are Manchester, just stay away from kebab and pizaa shops...lol...!!!!!

There was a discussion on this forum on this issue of 'alcohol' (used in terms of the chemical group and NOT the intoxicant). Maybe you should read that. Why do people drink alcohol? Why is it prohibitied in Sikhi? (For those who believe it is banned). Its down to the intoxication properties. But with regards to food constituents I don't think there is any need to be so hardcore. I'm not advocating that it is OK to have a bit of sherry or wine in your pasta or something, but spirit vinigar in beans, you are HARDLY likely to eat copious amounts to beans to get intoxicated. I don't think it's a major problem!!! I'm sure there are those that will disagree though!!!!

How can you generalise in such ways? Putting aside what person views we have for RS folk, common says dictates that its the INDIVIDUAL who has the views not the WHOLE....so come on, be accurate in your assertations!!!!

with regards to that book. It might be the one I have, red hardcover called the 52 commandments etc etc.. The book is good but the english is very poor in it and makes it hard to follow at some places. Not sure if its the same book, I will check.

I don't think there is a crisis at all in Sikhi. Yes, there are problems, but not the extent as the poster has suggested. I do think the beadi issue should be sorted out. But not from an act of parliment....imagine how long it will take for such an issue to happen!!! We need to be more proactive in this issue and become more organised. Power is the in the people and numbers and not an act on a piece of paper. Two things we should address, beadi's and thousands of youngester drifting from Sikhi.....there will be many more beadis and many more issue if we don't address the youth of today who will be the leaders of tommorow. Saldy, I'm one of the guilty ones who are too passive....I hope to lend my support for such activities at some point in the near future, with Maharaji's Kirpa.