Kira

25 minutes ago, sitokaur said:

kira,

besides my Kirpan as a Amritdhari, atey Gurbani daily, i am yet to achieve readiness as Bhai Randhir Singh Jio in Jail Chittian, where He tolerated much physical abuse, including attempts to force Sikhi highly taboo meat etc in His Paviterr Puneet Mouth, but Vahiguroo gave Him Jorr to give pappi gora good beating, that made gora resign from job and beg Bhai Sahib Jio on knees_/\_, i am nowhere near Bhai Sahib Jio or any Gursikhs, just love you all Khalsa Soormey as our Miterr Pyareo Guru Parvasa, and doing what i can to share what i know Jio (how i know is His kirpa, if it is worthy knowledge, only time will tell)_/\_Paviterr Charna Bhul Chuk Muaf Gurfathe Vahiguroo rakha ♡♡♡♡♡

Learn Shaster vidya, that's all I can say. Learn Martial arts, anything. Just take precautions. That was the order of Mahakaal and that's the only way we'll reach anywhere. 

Don't take this the wrong way (im not aiming this at you at all, this is a general note) but the Kirpans typically worn are just like the Janyu (sacred thread) worn by the hindus now (this was the bachan of a Sant if I recall right), that's why we need to adapt a bit more.

SO are you now on board for people keeping guns and weapons? 

This topic is ironic in so many ways.

On 12/03/2018 at 11:32 AM, Guest Heera said:

I tried to create an account for convenience but for some reason it never went through. Maybe the mods know, but I tried several times but didn't get a response. Maybe there's a problem or I'm doing something wrong. No idea

check your spams bro, i found my email there.

9 hours ago, monatosingh said:

Well generally getting a hukamnama from SGGSJ is better, there is nothing wrong with taking a cyber hukamnama.

The process is pretty much the same to be honest.

It would be so easy to manipulate a cyber hukamnama, like an entry level computer science student could do it. Cyber Hukamnamas, what next bro? Amrit dispensaries? robots doing langar seva? automatic chaur sahibs?

I dont know man, I mean its easy to tamper with Hukamnamas from the web (algorithms for certain ones to only appear), just to be on the safe side, I'd go and get one from Guru Ji at a Gurudwara. Get a Granthi or take it yourself I mean. If you want to use this medium then feel free but imho its better to go and get one in person.

8 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

was listening to Bhai Ajmer SIngh talking about Sant Attar Singh ji Mastuana wale  and when Sant ji's  sewak Teja Singh was sent abroad to get duniyavi gian at Harvard  after getting his first degree he said that he was filled with ahankar and this broke him from Gurmat , the only way forward for sikhs is to keep well rooted in sikhi whilst getting gian of worldly sphere . When he realised this he reimmersed himself in gurmat and gurbani  and became brahmgiani got further degrees than started setting up the gurdwarey in USA.

so university is the key place for make or break of sikhi  in many ways ...need wider parchaar cycles in unis societies and general campus leaflet drops/street parchaar. We need well-educated gursikhs females especially who will create a new visible role model for younger generations

Can personally attest to this. Uni is just nasty on that front.

6 hours ago, Singh123456777 said:

Sachi gall aa, we are amongst retards lol

 

JATT KHALSA

I wonder if along with morality,  social intelligence is slowly decreasing in Kalyug.

I swear some of you guys dont recognise a joke when its presented to you.

39 minutes ago, Guest Mahakaal96 said:

Sarb Loh granth is still supposed to be kept gupt.

Baba Santa Singhs katha & teeka on Sarbloh should have been kept within the Khalsa/Nihang ranks but after he passed away those looking for monetary gain out the teeka into mass print & sold copies of the katha tapes.

All these moorakhs who are putting up translation sites & videos on Sarbloh Bani are making a massive massive mistake.... only Guru sahib knows what their punishment will be!

Every powerful nation, army, king etc have a secret treasury & weapons etc..... Sarbloh was 1 of ours... those who are parading it in the open (just to look special so people think ‘wow’ he knows Sarbloh Bani) are idiots & fame hungry sellouts!

Thankfully there are several buried gupt items that those who know have never been foolish enough to tell the whole world.

So benti to you Sarbloh seekers.... keep your knowledge gupt & guarded & only discuss with those who have MORE knowledge on Sarbloh then you.

I had a sneaky suspicion it was meant to remain gupt, even while I was reading it, I felt i was trespassing on something majorly important. The entire vibe of the Granth is something else completely.

Celibacy is allowed, there were many many great Mahapurkhs in the Panth who were Celibate (Baba Deep Singh Ji Shaheed for example), but the life of the householder is still optimal. You could (and imo should) find a Sikh groom for yourself, I'm sure there are plenty of connections who can help you out there. As for communities..well they're temporary, you'll find new ones and your family will in time learn to accept your choice as time heals all wounds. Just be strong  and have faith in Maharaj, He's the master of both worlds and he will do what is right for you.

10 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

I'm not a freemason, but a close friend of mine is a past master of a lodge, they definitelty are involved in weird rituals. Not nefarious stuff but weird arti or whatever, not in sync with Gurbani. Mostly people join to enfranchise themselves and make business connections, like joining a fraternity. 

As far as secret Sikh societies I have no idea how you would find them or verify their secret info. 

I think other posters hit the mark by suggesting one join other humanitarian groups not steeped in mysticism. 

Gurbani is the best information out there.  

During my conspiracy nutjob phase (this came before my missionary phase, I am a very phased man) I found all sorts of ways to verify these sort of things. 

For a theoretical secret order within the Panth you'd have several ways of verifying it.

1) Current Brahmgyanis would be aware of it, as they are all knowing. 

2) Guru Ji (if he did start one, again hypothetical, no way in hell do I know what Guru Ji thinks) could easily have given them signed documents which you could easily cross examine with the documentations of more public records where we can see Guru Ji's sign and seal. Plus there would be hints all through the history books, even Loh Prakash Granth is hinted at in Dasam Granth.

3) Most likely they'd be very spiritually powerful and spiritually high members, it wouldnt be far fetched that they could demonstrate some sort of spiritual awareness. This sorta allowed (based on what iv read) in situations where the true Believer is involved. 

1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

buried ? held by the rishis to be given to Guru ji but once that was done , Guru ji entrusted gian to the khalsa and now the Khalsa have spread it further.

The Knowledge was still kept Gupt for 3 yugs, it came out eventually but they were tasked with a secret that later came out on the order of the Guru. My point still stands, it was originally buried so no one knew it even existed.

1 hour ago, BhForce said:

The point is if they aren't up to no good, what's the reason for the secrecy?

If they they are not fully transparent, why in the world would a Sikh feel the need to join them?

OP is referring to Sikh organisations that might exist. For all we know Guru Ji did start a secret group with a select task, He's done it before in Satyug (again Im not saying I know what the Guru is thinking, no one can do that. Only he knows but im hypothesising), in many cases these organisations might actually do some pretty important things. imagine a secret organisation with original manuscripts, told to always remain underground to guard them (every single document written by Guru Ji and his sikhs) would be instrumental in keeping certain parts of our heritage around in some shape of form, look at the state of things now. Dasam Granth is constantly attacked, we have people here who constantly deny historical events written in our books and choose to believe the tales of some modern day sunday sikh.

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If it is conceded that outsiders don't know the full machinations of the Freemasons, can we then agree that Sikhs should not join them?

Dont get me wrong, im not saying Sikhs should join them. We definitely don't know enough about them but if a Sikh style organisation did emerge that was dedicated solely to issues relating to the Panth, it might actually be somewhat beneficial. Afterall there's alot of power in secrecy. 

1 hour ago, BhForce said:

Would you also object to something like the Lions Club? Unlike the Freemasons, the Lions don't use strange symbolism, their origins are not lost to the mists of time (Lions was created in 1916 in Illinois), they don't have secret handshakes or rituals, and they are meant just to be a social service organization, not a kind of substitute religion.

To the OP, I would say, instead of asking why a Sikh should not join Freemasons, I would ask, what's the need to join it in the first place? Just do your social service as a part of your local Gurdwara, or maybe donate to societies (Khalsa Aid, Sevapanthies) that are doing good work. Or join a non-secret social service organization.

What about societies like the 9 unknown men (providing they exist and aren't just rumors) there's surely some things within the panth that were kept gupt by some organisation for reasons unknown to the general. I mean Loh Prakash Granth was buried for aeons by the Rishis on the orders of Guru Sahib.

5 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

no  from Gurbani side you cannot serve two masters and For us Waheguru ji is our all in all . Freemason are the antithesis of sikhi they want to control, cheat the populace deny the Creator , sikhi doesn't ... just because India has this plague doesn't mean we need to join them. 

since when has anything that east india company and angrez done been better for our people ? The first thing they did was burn our books, kill our elders and warriors , gave control of our gurdwarey over to anti-sikh mahants and rob our treasuries

Punjab has been doing international trade since ancient times even sycthians came to Punjab to buy our goldsmiths products ...we don't need them

I don't think that's what OP means. He means societies like the Nine Unknown Men. Sort of like Gupt secrets that only they would be privy to.

The point is there's 2 sides to this verse, Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji showed one side and Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji also showed another side. 

Kundalini Yoga is just yoga to help control the rise of Kundalini Power really, using it as a tool to reach Akaal isn't right but using it to help control its flow and promote a healthy spiritual lifestyle isn't wrong. Heck, in some instances Gurbani is so strong that it starts to move the Kundalini to the point that the practitioner can't really handle it, in these instances this is a handy tool to help control the influx and movement of chakras, providing you don't have a Sant to help you out . 

11 minutes ago, BhForce said:

Thanks for writing all this out on Uggardanti.

Any fair reading of Uggardanti (taking into all the lines, not just the "... dharam Hindu ..." line) will reveal a mindset antagonistic towards both "Hindu" and Islamic paths, seeing Khalsa as the highest path.

Yeah, Guru Ji invokes Bhagauti/Shakti as being the one residing over the Panth.

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The AKJ founder Randhir Singh translated this tuk to mean that Bhagat Kabeer (who is technically not a Muslim but a Sikh as per Gurbani) is saying that this tuk is saying that the ved and abrehamic books are false, however most of the English translations that Sikhs read, seem to suggest the exact opposite.

can you source this btw.

The translations most sikhs are on a whole completely misleading. They're far too Western-centric as a result core principles are totally lost within them.

20 hours ago, guruvah said:

1.None of the denominations you have mentioned have similar maryada or nitnem to start with. Let alone for us to even consider their lineage traces back to Guru Gobind Singh's time.

2. When people claim their lineage goes back to GUru Gobind Singh sahib himself starting them like how Taksal or Budha Dal does. To such extent that both claim "we" were trace back to Baba Deep Singh jee. Then conclusive historical evidence matters, because both lay claim authority & legitimacy in their narratives, maryada, interpretation of Gurmat in many key area.

Evidence matters because in nihangs, what mainstream Sikh see as Kurehit(e.g. meat, intoxicants(marijuana)) have been normalized. Even interpretation of Gurbani is twisted to suit their narrative & bias.

Problem definition/Conclusion: These lineage claims are merely oral claims without any substantive conclusive evidence. 

1) Similar nitnems or Maryada mean nothing. Depending on the lifestyle different marayadas and different nitnems are used, that's common sense. Why would a warrior lead the same lifestyle as a e.g baker. That's why their Marayadas differ but both are Parvan because they lead different lifestyles. 

2) Except there is historical records of it, you can find it in places like Amir Bhandar Steek and steeks from the 19th century, to find records you need to know the various names the oraganisation takes as they change through the courseof history ,Both Samparadayas lay claim to the lineage and both don't refute the other, the opposite actually as both consider each other brothers, there's no conflict there.

Why the hatred for Nihangs? because they eat meat? There's plenty of historical sources that say Sikhs ate meat,  what intoxicants are you talking about? is this about Shaheedi Degh? A universal rehit will and has never existed, due to the fact that there were several traditional organisations within the panth all doing their own seva for it. One can't be applied to the other. "Mainstream" sikhs are also misguided, some believe that all paths lead to God, most wouldn't even know the 5 Banis, so why are you concerned with the mainstream panth. There were several pages on SA about this very issue, I urge you to go and read them. They're pretty good.

I knew a dude (when he was doing bani jaap) that used to heat up while reciting any bani, he never burst into flames but he'd start to sweat and become super super warm, even in cold rooms. He said that in the presence of Maharaj it was 10x worse as the amount of Power coming from the bani and being in the presence of Jagat Guru was too much.

21 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

I don't know if this is what you are looking for but in the Taksali Sundar Gutka there are Rakhia De Shabad which are to be read at night right before Kirtan Sohila Paath. 

Nah bro, thanks though. I'm looking for Banis like the Kavachs, or well. I guess to be more precise, bani that specifically mentions the "kavach" so to speak.

2 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

The oral history argument doesn't hold since neither you nor me have any real proof what the oral history was from the perspective of Buddha Dal and Dam Dami Taksal or how correct the oral history was. Oral history can always add or subtract information as it passes from one generation to the next. Just take the oral history of what happened in 1984 and Santa Singh's rebuilding the Akal Takht from the perspective of Dam Dami Taksal vs the Buddha Dal. They both have a very different perspective of the same event. While majority of the Panth knows the Dam Dami Taksal version is correct. But 300 years from now who is to say which oral perspective was correct? It will be left to future historians like Dr Ganda Singh to analyze and some to a balanced view of the events as he did when he wrote his book on Baba Banda Singh Bahadur.

 

Again you're confusing several things here. Firstly the oral history from both traditions in this situation is 100% the same with some minor details obviously, something that one or the other would be privy too. The "oral" history that you're mentioning regarding the takhat is different from a recount, that is historical explanation. The oral history in the 1984 incident is that Akaal Takhat was destroyed and Baba Santa Singh Ji rebuilt it. The reasons why he did that is with Budhha Dal, Taksal also note that Baba Santa Singh Ji rebuilt it but have a differing opinion on reasons, not the event, both accept the event happened. The history is the same, the only difference is the reasons. Which in this instance is totally and utterly inconsequential since the discussion is if Baba Ji error-ed and fell off the path, which both traditions agree he did. 

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As for the letters, an expert historian who has studied the letters will know if something is correct or not. And that is what Dr Anurag Singh did when he closely scrutinized the letter to see if it is authentic or not to which he came to the conclusion it is not. That is probably why the Khalsa ignored the letters and did not stop it's war effort. They saw through it and kept on till the last conflict in the Fort of Gurdas Nangal. It is only in the this very last and final conflict that the the Sikhs split. Just out of curiosity, do you actually know what was written in those letters? Have you read them?

Sant Jarnail Singh Ji is also a historian and a Brahmgyani, that status alone trumps anything any human historian can say. I have read letters by Baba Banda Singh Bahadur Ji but the ones I read were dated relatively near the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's leave to Sachkhand, that's why I asked you to post the others. As the dates are extremely significant.

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It seems your argument is corresponding to Mahakaal's argument. Of the so called relapse which seems to have been discovered on this very forum since today. The idea that first Baba Jee was good then he went bad but then he went good again right before he became Shaheed. Problem which this is, this argument seems to have been designed to only counter my argument but is not in agreement with SP, PP or any other source which have only vilified Baba Banda Singh Bahadur till his very end.

You really need to read the Granths, they praise Baba Ji. So does Taksal, So does Dal. He was a Panth Soorma of the highest calibre yet they all know he error-ed and fell off the path. This isn't a new argument, the reason you've never heard of it is because you've (im sorry if I sound callous) seem to want to take the words of a human being over that of Brahmgyanis, this was all recorded in the oral traditions, its always been the reason. Even SP and PP both exhalt Baba Ji, even in Shaheedi, until you actually read them with an open mind everything will seem like slander. Just here you tried to insinuate that Sant Jarnail Singh Ji is somehow unaware of what actually happened, that he simply sat down one day, read something and then repeated it like a parrot. Sant Ji was a scholar of the highest degree.

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Let's say if he really did turn bad as you say, meaning he really did became Hankari and called himself a Guru, why did the Sikhs including Baba Deep Singh Ji, Bhai Mani Singh Jee and countless Singhs continue to fight for a bad Baba Banda Singh Bahadur who was pretending to be Guru of the Sikhs? Did Bhai Mani Singh Jee and Baba Deep SIngh Jee not know? What year did he all of a sudden become Hankari and start to call himself a Guru of the Sikhs?

Bhai Mani Singh Ji was busy doing his own seva for the panth. Baba Deep Singh Ji was busy doing his own seva, the only time (that I can remember historically of the top of my head where they fought together was during the Battle of Sirhind, which everyone agreed was part of Guru Ji's order) he was serving the panth with Baba Banda Singh Ji was during the battle of Sirhind, after that he was assigned his own misl and disappears from the , none of them were at or even following under Baba Banda Singh Bahadur Ji, they weren't present during this time when Baba Ji did this. There were plenty of sikhs around that did follow Baba Ji during that period, just like there were plenty of misguided sikhs who followed Baba Ram Rai Ji when he claimed to be Guru.