Kira

2 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

I think you should try and spend some time understanding the poetic form.. It is written in poetic form to stop people taking things literally but to encourage contemplation.. I suppose guru sahibs best efforts we still don't understand 

there was nothing poetic about it, he literally said Guru Nanak Dev Ji melted into thin air.  Bhai Gurdas Ji's poetic verses are kept separate from his historical ones, you would know that if you read them.  The prose used here was literal, and the evidence is in the proverbial pudding as it describes the journey, the encounter and the delegation. 

The same thing is written in Bhai Mani Singh Ji's janamsakhis and Bhai Bala Jis ones too I believe.

1 minute ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

I wasn't there,  so I don't know.  but I doubt  he melted into thin air.. He wasn't a jadugargh and spoke vehemently against such things so I find it hard to believe that he would have.. Do you believe that he did? 

Bhai Gurdas Ji said he did, And Guru Arjun Dev Ji put his seal on his work. So both of them are liars then according to you?

2 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Haven't thrown out any scriptures bro.. Ggsj is a path to  truth. Mool mantar the most beautiful articulation of truth.. The definition against which everything measured 

That's not answering my question, did Guru Nanak Dev Ji melt into air and disappear infront of a congregation no less, and travel the entire universe?

1 minute ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Love it.. I don't think you would ever understand the esoteric knowledge bestowed upon us.. You want easy answers. You want to outsource your own capacity and understand what truth rather than seek for yourself.. If you did spend some time doing that you would realise that being so dogmatic and exclusionary is not the way of nirankaar! 

Don't deflect my questions. Guru Nanak Dev Ji melted into thin air and in less than a second went everywhere in the universe, did that happen or not.

The Knowledge of Akaal will come to me when he deems me worthy (if ever), my mind has evolved. In fact if i look back at my earlier posts im a completely different person in terms of what I believe because unlike you, I evolved depending on what was presented to me. The way to Nirankaar is what Guru Sahib said in his bani and his Rehitnamas, I'm happy following them. You're free to follow your own mind, all you've done so far is thrown out every scripture that doesn't agree with you. No big.

1 minute ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Make your mind up bro was he there or roop 

He gave them Darshan so yes he was there. He only went to meet them and thus it was done. Just as Bhagat Prahlad was saved by Narsimha, after his work was done. He was gone. Thus Guru Sahib gave them amrit and Darshan (as they wished) and simply assumed their nirgun form once again.

2 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Enough of this nonsense. If it don't fit it can't be true. If truth is akaal then The application of logic to discern truth is the only way to eliminate falsehoods, you don't seem to grasp the essence of bani if you don't understand that 

You wanted sources and you got them. Baba Deep Singh Ji fought without his head, by your logic (since that doesn't fit with the "conventional" truth) that was a lie and never happened. Guru Nanak Dev Ji took Pir Dastagir's child all through the cosmos, that's defying the speed of light thus breaking scientific "law". I guess that didn't happen, but wait. Bhai Gurdas Ji said it did, so who will you believe? are you calling Bhai Sahib a liar?

There's a relic in the house of a muslim family that Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave them, it lets in milk but whenever anything else is put into it, it pours it out from its holes. Guess that's all false too. I could go on..but really.

Just now, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Baba farid lived 350 years before guru nanak dev ji and Bhagat kabir was born over 150 years, Bhagat ramananda was born before kabir ji I could go on 

Truth the pursuit of truth is the sikh way 

And I've already stated Guru Nanak Dev Ji gave them Darshan and then Amrit. Why is that hard for you understand? Guru Nanak Dev Ji isn't bound by time, he is Akaal Purkh. He can do whatever he please. Puratan sources state this, but let me guess. They knew nothing...but wait now we have Sukhvirk! the one sole champion who will revive Sikhi which conveniently died out completely after the 10th Master left his earthly form!

1 minute ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

What Puratan Sources are you referring to 

Suraj Prakash Granth, the Twarikh Guru Khalsa and also the oral history recorded by Taksal.

1 minute ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

They don't overlap lol try researching going beyond the lazy tropes you want to propagate.. You can shout and bad mouth me as much as you like but you will not find one scholar of sikh history who would agree with you.. Not one 

Bhai Vir Singh Ji stated this, so did MahaKavi Santokh Singh Ji, both of them are gems in terms of gathering Sikh History. So save me the tantrum. If you want links then I'm happy to show you, but I doubt you'll read them.

Just now, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Lol 

Yeah I should just nod my head at let you speak falsehoods.. I have said nothing against Amrit.. If anything you are by devaluating it 

I see what you are doing here though, create a outrage and deflect attention away from the fact you don't know what you are talking about.. 

Right little Donald trump.. 

So all the Puratan Sources that say Guru Nanak Dev Ji met Bhagat Kabir Ji are wrong? all the Brahmgyanis who also said this all of them are wrong? all the historical texts where I bet you quote history from, all of them are wrong? 

Right. 

See you're the one calling me names here, you've yet to cite an actual source. I'm still waiting. 

Just now, Sukhvirk1976 said:

No he wasn't.. The compositions of Bhagat farid in the ggsj predate guru nanak.. I know your world may be collapsing around you but it is the truth.. Well established historical fact..! You just want to reinforce your narrow perspective, 

The Farid you keep babbling on about is Farid the first, the one in Gurbani is Farid the second. My world is perfectly fine, their timelines overlapped. I even sent over a link in the old thread, one you clearly didn't open (which was written by a Sikh historian). One you even made me find you the exact page on.

Seriously, all you've demonstrated is you have no love for learning. I've sent links but its apparent you didn't even open them.

1 minute ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Drank Amrit? What physically? Who administered the Amrit? 

Feels like a Windows pc breaking down.. Computer says no... 

Guru Nanak Dev Ji did. You know you're literally showing everyone here how much disrespect you have for Amrit as a whole. So much for being a Sikh.

Just now, Sukhvirk1976 said:

No no.. I don't think you understand the concept of shabd guru! 

Bro don't keep introducing more philosophical terms and expect us to be bamboozled.. You very clearly don't know what shabd guru is 

So please explain to me what it is. Also please cite Puratan sources to back your view up. 

1 minute ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

No not kapish.. 

Let's explore a even more explicit hypothesis, did Bhagat kabir dwell in sach khand 

After he drank Amrit and became one with God, yes he dwelled in Sach-Khand. Just like everyone else, after they drink Amrit and meditate with God.

Just now, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Just making it up as you go along.. Sheikh farid who's compositions are in ggsj preceded guru nanak dev ji by about 300 years.

WE literally give you evidence that he was around during Guru Nanak Dev Ji's time. I swear it's like you're purposely trying to look dense.

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Yes guru nanak dev ji met the inheritor of the silsila, and further more what about Bhagat ramanand, kabir? 

Like I said before, Guru Nanak Dev Ji (also known as the Shabad Guru, Akaal Purkh himself) has been around since the dawn of time, he met them alright and gave them amrit. Why is that a difficult concept for you to get into your head? it's literally the introduction into the modern day SGPC Reharas Sahib.

1 minute ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Just answer the question.. Do you believe that someone can only achieve mukti and dwell in sach khand if as you quite clearly said  "of Guru Granth Sahib Ji now" 

Like I said its easy to cast aspersions on me and not actually clarify.. Just take it on the chin bro.. 

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Only with the help of a Satguru can one reach God, and the only Satguru around (ever) has been th Shabad Guru in the form of Guru Granth Sahib Ji now.

Anyone that takes refuge with the Satguru as I said there, can achieve SachKhand. The only Satguru around as of now is Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Kapish? 

6 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

May I be so humble and suggest that before trying to grapple with deep philosophical concepts and using them as tools to bamboozle people, talk down to individuals and belittle them you yourself spend some time on understanding logic.. SATNAM, making self contradictory statements is a telltale sign of not applying logic and rationale.. 

May I also be so humble as to suggest maybe go back to the basics. Go read some of the Puratan texts, I've referenced them multiple times for you but its like you have such a huge ego you refuse to read or even acknowledge them.

The concepts are easy enough to understand, if you can't understand them. Then do let us know, we'll be happy to send you to reliable sources from Sikh literature to help you.

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Bringing Sargun and nirgun into the conversation about your very clear assertion about mukti, sach khand and how it can only be realised through guru Granth Sahib ji as it is now speaks volumes. Your basic point means that gurus before adi Granth compilation are excluded not to mention the bhagats.. 

And again, its like talking to someone who can't read. You tried this very thing with the Sheikh Farid thread, and got evidence thrown at you in the buckloads. The Bhagats all took Amrit from Satguru Nanak Dev Ji, this is mentioned multiple times in multiple sikh sources. Their Darshan was different and unique.

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It also means you believe in the exclusivity of knowledge and only those party to said knowledge are able to find truth.. Which sounds remarkably like brahmanism.. 

To you it would. The irony of this is you never touch a single source that doesn't agree with you, you can't even read Gurmukhi yet you're sitting here lecturing others on what is and what isn't a Sikh. 

49 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

Sargun, nirgun wow don't even go there.. 

It's an easy concept to understand, Im more than happy going there but the reason you wont is because it flies over your head.

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This is what you wrote based on your articulation here guru nanak dev ji is excluded.. This is your definition not mine.. Don't get all giddy with me because you are incapable of speaking shudh.. 

Let's just be clear what it is you are saying.. Do you retract your statement of 'guru Granth Sahib now' or does it apply.. If you stick with it then logically you exclude guru nanak dev ji.. I'm just asking it was your proposition not mine.. 

Guru Nanak Dev Ji is  the Shabad Guru, Where have I suddenly excluded him? its only in your warped mind that I somehow excluded him. I really don't need to get "giddy" with anyone, you're coming on a Sikh forum to try and propagate but your credentials are what now? you've not read any Puratan sources, I bet the most you know about Sikhism is from those kids story books. 

Guru Nanak Dev Ji is the Shabad Guru and the Shabad Guru is God. If that's a difficult concept for you to understand then maybe you need to go and read more.

47 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

You fancy yourself as the Usain Bolt of sikhi?

No, I'm making a statement based on facts. Amrit was always the first step, without it all else is meaningless.

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So you believe the ceremony itself is transformational, easy peasy... Interesting seems contradictory to the overall principles of sikhi.. I never had you down as someone who would advocate rituals as a path to enlightenment.. I'm genuinely surprised 

 

Go and read the book I sent to @GurjantGnostic , The fact that you think its a meaningless ritual really goes to show how much respect you have for Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

Just now, GurjantGnostic said:

Cool veer ji. That's why Im asking. I'm learning still. It's just not my first rodeo with people who think they have the one and only way. 

Hit me with the bani. I love reading bani. 

I'll give you something simpler bro. Read this.

http://www.vidhia.com/Bhai Randheer Singh Ji/Meaning-of-amrit.pdf

It's a life changer and its in english, if you want the Punjabi version I can send a link too.

2 minutes ago, N30S1NGH said:

Time to open your mind aperture to vast expansive consciousness and smell the coffee, i know ego likes to have sense of security, oh i am amritdhari- i have automatic sachkhand express liberation card!

No one said that bro. Amrit is the first step, you need to walk before you run. 

13 minutes ago, GurjantGnostic said:

The Amrit required, that I've read about so far doing sehajpaath, is the Amrit of the Naam. 

Total devotion, love and sacrifice to the One. Being absorbed into the light of the One. 

 

of course Naam is required. But there was a reason why Charan Pahul was started, one can sit here and recite bani all we wish, but we require a Satguru to take us to God. Satguru is Akaal Purkh, by drinking their amrit we're becoming theirs and theirs alone. 

30 minutes ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

So by your own logic guru nanak dev ji didn't reach sach khand 

Lol

Maybe go back and learn the concept of Sargun, Nirgun and how it interlinks with the Shabad. The fact that you don't seem to even know who or what Guru Nanak Dev Ji was is a sign of just how daft your attempts to seem reasonable are.

1 hour ago, GurjantGnostic said:

So you're saying only Sikhs, specifically Amritdharis can get Mukhti? 

There's wisdom in every religion, all the prophets who came before Satguru Nanak Dev Ji can take their followers far...but not to Sach Khand. Only with the help of a Satguru can one reach God, and the only Satguru around (ever) has been th Shabad Guru in the form of Guru Granth Sahib Ji now.

1 hour ago, Sukhvirk1976 said:

The nihangs would make them eat pork!? I've never heard that do you have any sources for me to research? 

 

Of course you dont know what source its from. 

Prem Sumarag Granth