Kira

3 hours ago, Guest Singh said:

I’m sure the best reharaas sahib is the Budha Dal one as it contains extra choupais, sevaye and doharas. It has much more dasam bani in there. Surely the one contains the most bani will give u more fruit and knowledge than the shorter version. After all, the more bani we read the better. 

I think we take one look at nihangs doing jhatka and drinking degh so we automatically think (in our opinion) that everything they do is wrong. However, arguably they do the most seva and have kept a lot of the maryada (3 granths, farla, bana, shastar) in tact. A farladhari nihang’s nitnem consists on more than 5 hours of baani. 

Overall the Budha dal reharaas is the best. In daas opinion. 

Bhull chuk maaf

Bhaji you're not wrong there, extra bani is always good. But the extra saloks are there for a reason, they're meant to remind the Dal what they are and what their job is, it is fine to read it however but we shouldn't say one is "the best" when it comes to Rehras Sahib from traditional schools with lineage back to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. The addition of extra saloks is paramount to their own school and so on.

The best way to look it (imo) is that the Taksali one is the bare minimum (just like in all amrit sanchars the 5 Bani are the bare minimum) but it is fine to read another one (providing it is sourced to Guru Ji's time) if it does have more (as more isn't the same as less in terms of the SGPC one).

1 hour ago, TaksalDaSingh9771 said:

Depends on the mahapursh (which samparda they are from). I have never seen a famous mahapursh do the short rehras sahib 

I think the general consensus was that the shorter version is corrupted and invalid. Though I have noticed that they'll all do the taksali one but some might have extra saloks within it. 

3 hours ago, ramneeksingh said:

Can you tell please where it is written that there cannot be a dah dhari guru ?can you please tell :
where it is written that sikh should not believe in any human being living ? Where is it is written in Adi bani or dasam bani?
If somebody can  please tell me then we'll discuss further

 

Where is it written that a Guru lies to his own sikhs? where is it written that a Guru would sit still while his sikhs were hunted down? You're the one asserting the Dehdhari Guru, not us. So the burden of proof is on you. Find proof that Guru Sahib changed his face,with historical sources from the time of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's passing. You wont find it in any historical because it doesn't exist. 

Please refute Poet Sainpati and testimony from the sikhs that actually conducted the last rites of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's physical sareer. 

All you have is old wives tales, I can sit here and make them up as well. 

15 hours ago, sikhni777 said:

Yes please.i have not seen It.

I dont disagree with the above coz demons are souls too. Harnakhakh was a demon too who did bhagt to get a boon of being amar.

Source- Uggardanti bani by Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji

It's important to note that Guru Sahib had infinite power, but getting minor powers was considered very possible (I'd even argue easy for true Gurmukhs) and is blessed to anyone regardless of faith as long as they do Bhagti.

these are the kind of threads that make the sangat seem almost like a functional family.

1 hour ago, sitokaur said:

kira and non existent,

GURBANI REMINDS, NOT TO ARGUE WITH FOOLS!

So I'm a fool for pointing out something that's mentioned in Gurbani? No child, you're the fool here. You're implying that Gurbani is what? wrong? misleading? full of falsehoods? which one? I stated  story that's a part of Sikh heritage (yes because it occurs within Gurbani) and you got your panties in a twist.

Gurbani also tells you that people who do Nindya of Satguru go to the lowest regions of hell. Wonder where that puts you if you're implying Gurbani is wrong. Would you like me to pull up the tukh that mentions Gayasura? 

6 minutes ago, Singh123456777 said:

Hallelujah!!!! Praise Baby Jesus!!! hallelujah

17 minutes ago, MrDoaba said:

He's not a woman bro.

Deflecting are we?

REAL Nihangs keep it on them 24/7!

Maa Durga wont be happy you left her charan for Baba Jesus  

8 hours ago, sitokaur said:

non existent and kira, you both obviously non sikhs, so kindly keep your saints and demons on your forums!

foolish woman. Gayasura is mentioned in Gurbani, is Gurbani wrong now?

7 hours ago, sitokaur said:

Vahiguroo Jio,

how could Brahmgyani Bhai Randhir Singh Jio be wrong about raag mala, when He was told by Guru Gobind Singh Jio vs video produced by Gurduara who sacrifise goats daily and gyani dress like indian dancer, burning fire like hindus.and posted by a mysterious non existent, who cannot make up his mind which Saint he wants to be inspired by Jio_/\_.

And why is singh holding machine gun at end of video, THIS CREEP NON EXISTENT IS ALSO RSS JIO, out to cause trouble, doubt in our Khalsa Panth, and defame us!   PLEASE DISALLOW AND MONITOR HIM AND KIRA JIO

i will not doubt my Khandey Batey Ki Pahul baksheesh experience to know raag mala is not Gurbani

1) Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji did believe in Raagmala, infact this is a well documented fact as its mentioned in an article realised days after his passing. Not to mention Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji also acknowledged Bhai Sahib firmly believed in Raagmala, the only morons that seem to throw his good name out there are the AKJ in an attempt to create more confusion in the panth.

2) Every single traditional school that has lineage back to Guru Gobind Singh Ji all believe in Raagmala, AKJ are nothing more than a cult that can't hold a single candle to them, what lineage to they have? if Bhai Sahib could see them now he'd shake his head. These include the likes of Taksal whom have produced some of the most learned scholars to ever grace this Earth.

3) What's wrong with a machine-gun? that's a shastar. Are you going to cry and complain about pictures of Guru Sahib wearing and carrying weapons now too? guns are constantly mentioned Dasam Bani as well. Are you going to close your eyes every-time it comes up or simply edit it out?

4) the fact that you're throwing out names without any meaning shows your own knowledge on the topic is skin-deep. 

5) What do you have against me? 

1 hour ago, monatosingh said:

A demon that could achieve liberation?
Interesting..

Basically the story was the demon (called Gayasura) did immense tapisya to the point that all of the Trinity came to grant him a boon. He said he wanted the power to liberate anyone he looked at, So they granted it. Didn't take long for them to realise things were getting bad on Earth, since people could do all sorts of immoral things and just go get darshan of the demon to wipe their slates clean. 

So Vishnu intervened and asked the demon to go into the earth, the demon agreed. Vishnu then placed a foot on the demon's head and submerged him into the Earth. 

There's a hindu mandir at the spot. 

I'm guessing liberation was sending people to some heaven. Though you have to admit that's a pretty neat superpower.

18 minutes ago, monatosingh said:

'Power of Liberation'

I just have to repeat and focus on Waheguru everyday and I get liberation..

 

no joke there was a demon that had a power like that. Things got really ugly fast. 

Story from the Devi Purana- Lesson learned is that we should never be proud of our strength and power.

All of Dasam Bani gives Shakti, Power. The entire of Dasam Pita's bani is euology to Akaal Purkh in the form of Kaal Purkh and Bhagauti, basically God in the form of pure power. This power we can use for whatever we wish, doing more Paath/Bhagati, to sustain us through the day and also to encourage us to do good things. Singhs used to use to inspire the will to fight for righteousness back in ye olden days.

In simple terms it instils Power in the reader. 

4 hours ago, S4NGH said:

It's the very last thing you should do before you sleep. Some say you should read it whilst seated on your bed facing your pillow.

Have you any idea where this notion comes from? My parents always told me the same thing, though they always added that it was so I should imagine Guru Sahib sitting at the head of the bed and im reciting Bani by his Charan.

I don't like you too OP

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7aTvhUAeRLAVx8vm/giphy.gif

On 13/12/2017 at 7:35 PM, MrDoaba said:

This is a point of contention amongst some Sikhs. Another time, another place.

Yeah, I take Gyani Ji's work with a pinch of salt in all honesty. 

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Any particular ones which stand out?

ਸਹਸਬਾਹੁ ਮਧੁ ਕੀਟ ਮਹਿਖਾਸਾ ॥ 
सहसबाहु मधु कीट महिखासा ॥ 
Sahasbāhu maḏẖ kīt mahikẖāsā. 
The Lord killed the thousand-armed Arjun, and the demons Madhu-keetab and Meh-khaasaa. 

ਹਰਣਾਖਸੁ ਲੇ ਨਖਹੁ ਬਿਧਾਸਾ ॥ 
हरणाखसु ले नखहु बिधासा ॥ 
Harṇākẖas le nakẖahu biḏẖāsā. 
He seized Harnaakhash and tore him apart with his nails. 

ਦੈਤ ਸੰਘਾਰੇ ਬਿਨੁ ਭਗਤਿ ਅਭਿਆਸਾ ॥੬॥ 
दैत संघारे बिनु भगति अभिआसा ॥६॥ 
Ḏaiṯ sangẖāre bin bẖagaṯ abẖi▫āsā. ||6|| 
The demons were slain; they did not practice devotional worship. ||6|| 

ਜਰਾਸੰਧਿ ਕਾਲਜਮੁਨ ਸੰਘਾਰੇ ॥ 
जरासंधि कालजमुन संघारे ॥ 
Jarāsanḏẖ kālajmun sangẖāre. 
The demons Jaraa-sandh and Kaal-jamun were destroyed. 

ਰਕਤਬੀਜੁ ਕਾਲੁਨੇਮੁ ਬਿਦਾਰੇ ॥ 
रकतबीजु कालुनेमु बिदारे ॥ 
Rakaṯbīj kālunem biḏāre. 
Rakat-beej and Kaal-naym were annihilated. 

ਦੈਤ ਸੰਘਾਰਿ ਸੰਤ ਨਿਸਤਾਰੇ ॥੭॥ 
दैत संघारि संत निसतारे ॥७॥ 
Ḏaiṯ sangẖār sanṯ nisṯāre. ||7|| 
Slaying the demons, the Lord saved His Saints. ||7|| 
 

Sounds alot like the second chand of Uggardanti.

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This is a good point. As far as I know, there isn't any Goddess Bhagauti/Bhagwati in Sanatan Mat per say. I believe it's more of a generic term. I'm gonna get backlash for the way I put this but Bhaguati is almost the Goddess of Sikhi... *runs for cover*. Personification is a sin.

Bhagauti is the a title of Durga/Ad-Shakti in Shaktism so yeah it is more of a title since it also means "deepest power" or "Primal Power"

God if you ever said that to certain people well imagine this to be their reaction. I mean I bet if they ever heard Sarbloh Granth portion where Guru Sahib says the Khalsa's father is Kaal Purkh and Kalika is the mother on whom's lap the Khalsa grows.

no but it is important to note that Bhaugati is the mother of the Khalsa, while Bhagauti and Akaal are the same and one they're different aspects of the same God. Akaal is beyond everything and the base of all of existence, he nourishes and resides everywhere. While Bhagauti is just Akaal but in a more active role.

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Now this makes it even more interesting. We've sort of already discerned that Maa Baala and Bhavani are the Puran Shakti of Akaal (correct me if I'm wrong), but if we are we go with the theory that it is in fact Mata Ji delivering the message to herself, what in your opinion, is the message here for the reader? Not to stray, along those lines?

I think we misunderstood each other. Firstly in the story of Krishna and Arjun, the whole concept was that the person receiving the message was Arjun (he's meant to be us in this sense), while Krishna and Vishnu are the ones who orchestrate this whole Charitar (lets call it this). In the case of Mata Baala, Mata Ji = us, soul etc and Bhavani and Akaal = Krishna and Vishnu. 

So basically they would be separate in this instance.

On 11/12/2017 at 11:43 AM, Big_Tera said:

Yes Islam is just a plagerised religion of Judasim. 

And christianity is nothing but a fairy tale. So many contradictions. Even Chrstians themselves dont belive in their own fait. That is why hardly go to church. Many are agnostic and know their faith is false. 

They try and make it so it looks very authentic. Such having the date -BC - before christ ect. To make it enshrined in the timeline of earth and confuse people. 

If we look further. Christianity was started in the 1st century. So it is precisly 2000 years old. 

It is nothing but a fairy tale. Jesus was not son of god and there was no virgin mary or birth. 

Its a big LIE. 

 

 

 

 

you've never met many christians have you?

not saying whether he did it or not (I don't know) but the audio is pretty is sketchy, could be anyone. Heck an uncle in my Gurudwara sounds like this, I doubt its him.

13 minutes ago, NonExistant said:

Wow. Cant believe this topic is still going. I guess u guys have your dasam duaar open and are probably mahapurakhs by now.

like just about everyone said we're hypothesising what we think happened, we're doing our own flawed interpretations and are not saying its fact. A brahmgyani did say that Mata Baala was MAta Sahib Kaur JI, but we're trying to piece together the story of her being Durga too. 

If you have any information on the topic it would be most welcome bro.

On 08/12/2017 at 9:20 PM, MrDoaba said:

Excellent analysis and observations bro. Very insighful.

Here's my feeble interpretation of it.

A few things came to mind when reading this. Firstly what Agni Dev represents in Indic thought. Agni symbolises sacrifice; it was during a battle in which many sacrifices were made did fire appear, and from this fire Maa Baala was born. It's almost as if she was a boon granted to the world and Dharam or in other words "Akaal Sahai" i.e. everlasting support for those in pursuit of righteousness. Through the sacrifice of Dharam Yudh is righteousness propagated and restored, and seeing as Bir Rass/Dharam Yudh is one of the core messages of Dasam Granth it would make sense.

As you say, she has no lineage from either side, and this ties in with the purity; She (like Gursikhs/Khalsa and Brahmgyanis), has transcended Paap and Punn, she is representative of Shudh Gyaan, a state which upon reaching one realises their only objective is to merge with Akaal Purkh; becoming a Soul-Bride. In order to attain this state one could use the inner Yajna (again being fire) or inner purification analogy, in which the fire of Brahmgyaan destroys doubt, ignorance, and the panj vikaar. In both a real Yajna and a metephorical one, in order to keep the fire burning, the ingedients must be pure. In this case it would correspond to practising and mastering the five virtues as per Sikhi. Finally, the Nirmal Pursh becomes the ultimate sacrifice in the Maha Yajna that is Kalyug, and as Agni is considered messagener/mediator between man and God, the Aatma is transported back to where it came from. OR as Agni Dev is also a witness in marriage ceremonies, here he becomes the witness of the eternal union of said Nirmal Pursh (Soul-Bride) with his Creator.

 

That's actually a really good way of looking at it, I had totally forgotten about Agni dev being witness and what not.

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There is a source which mentions Yajna/Havan in Sikhi, can't remember what it is. And I have no idea if it's metephorical or literal, or both. Many believe it was both but I won't attempt to promote such a possibility here, for obvious reasons. I also remember reading about it in other Indic worship systems once (besides Sanatan Mat)

Metaphorical. I believe it was Gyani Gyan Singh's work. He said Baba Deep Singh Ji did a Havan before battle but it was later explained it was a metaphorical havan where the fire he lit was the fire of Brahmgyan.

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I don't have much to add to this paragraph, I think you've got it spot on especially the part about the 3 guna's. Just a couple of questions. So Kaal Purkh instructs her to wage war against the demons or inner demons as you say, then God assists her to help her destroy the demons too - are these now literal demons (the evil in the world)? If so, is what your referring to Miri-Piri in a nutshell, that one must become Sant before Sipahi in order to avoid the likes of tyranny, unjust actions etc?

Literal and Metaphorical imo. Miri Piri would fall into this line I guess, Mata Ji does Tapisya first and then goes to war but imo both are equally important and have a symbiotic relationship with each other, this will just turn into a what came first proverbial gameplay.

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I'll have a read of it. That's another thing you can thank the Sodhak Committee for removing.

Really the bani is eerily similar to alot of verses in Sri Guru Granth Sahib JI.

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If I had to guess I would say before. Maa Baala is referred to as Bhavani later on in the Charitr, and in the Dusht Daman story Chandi comes for help; so in a chronological sense if Mata Ji has manifested as Bhavani you could assume that it's her who goes to Dusht Daman because I believe Chandi, Durga, Bhavani, Bhagauti are used interchangeably. Maybe Suraj Prakash Granth just chooses to look at from a different perspective, or a more relatable one?

I'd disagree here, Bhagauti is never used for Chandi/Durga/Kalika etc, Bhagauti is a seperate entity as its the Puran Shatki of Akaal. imo there's 2 possible theories for this. Firstly the Bhavani that appeared before Mata Ji wasn't Durga the wife of Shiva but Bhavani the puran Shakti of Akaal, as in the Shakti of Akaal manifested fully. The second theory is that Bhavani later became a title she was given due to the fact she fought like Durga against the demons, Sort of like how people will say certain people are so and so Devta as a way of conveying how strong they are. Heck Indra Gandhi was called Durga (laughable as she got riddled with bullets later on but its an example) and Baba Deep Singh Ji was described as being like Shiva doing the Tandava dance while destroying the enemy in defence of Harmandir Sahib.

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That's an interesting point about Krishan and Arjun. Maybe the answer can be found in Guru Gobind Singh Ji's commentary on the Gita? I wouldn't be surprised if there was seeing as the main theme of Dasam Granth and the Gita overlap somewhat.

This story isn't in the Gita I think, the story happened during or before the Mahabharata, its actually mentioned in Chaubis avatar too. Basically a Brahmin's children kept dying so Arjuna promised to stop Yamraj taking them by standing guard doing his wife's child birth but the child disappears, so Krishna takes him to Vaikuntha to get them back from his Vishnu Saroop and then basically teach him he shouldnt be so egoistical and assume he has a say in these things.

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Maybe the moral of this part of the story is one of redemption in the context of lakh chaurasi and or Karma, a warning of sorts for the reader? Although it would be highly dependant on Bhavani's status throughout the Charitr. I'm just speculating here.

 

The amount of Gyaan one can gain from just this one part of the Charitr and its veechaar has left me astonished I must say.

 

Time to sit back now and wait for the RSS comments and 'Hindu' accusations to start pouring in. *Leaves laptop to go and reapply Kanku and Chandan*

There's alot in every charitar, it's actually gobsmacking to say the least.

On 08/12/2017 at 9:20 PM, MrDoaba said:

Excellent analysis and observations bro. Very insighful.

Here's my feeble interpretation of it.

A few things came to mind when reading this. Firstly what Agni Dev represents in Indic thought. Agni symbolises sacrifice; it was during a battle in which many sacrifices were made did fire appear, and from this fire Maa Baala was born. It's almost as if she was a boon granted to the world and Dharam or in other words "Akaal Sahai" i.e. everlasting support for those in pursuit of righteousness. Through the sacrifice of Dharam Yudh is righteousness propagated and restored, and seeing as Bir Rass/Dharam Yudh is one of the core messages of Dasam Granth it would make sense.

As you say, she has no lineage from either side, and this ties in with the purity; She (like Gursikhs/Khalsa and Brahmgyanis), has transcended Paap and Punn, she is representative of Shudh Gyaan, a state which upon reaching one realises their only objective is to merge with Akaal Purkh; becoming a Soul-Bride. In order to attain this state one could use the inner Yajna (again being fire) or inner purification analogy, in which the fire of Brahmgyaan destroys doubt, ignorance, and the panj vikaar. In both a real Yajna and a metephorical one, in order to keep the fire burning, the ingedients must be pure. In this case it would correspond to practising and mastering the five virtues as per Sikhi. Finally, the Nirmal Pursh becomes the ultimate sacrifice in the Maha Yajna that is Kalyug, and as Agni is considered messagener/mediator between man and God, the Aatma is transported back to where it came from. OR as Agni Dev is also a witness in marriage ceremonies, here he becomes the witness of the eternal union of said Nirmal Pursh (Soul-Bride) with his Creator.

There is a source which mentions Yajna/Havan in Sikhi, can't remember what it is. And I have no idea if it's metephorical or literal, or both. Many believe it was both but I won't attempt to promote such a possibility here, for obvious reasons. I also remember reading about it in other Indic worship systems once (besides Sanatan Mat)

I don't have much to add to this paragraph, I think you've got it spot on especially the part about the 3 guna's. Just a couple of questions. So Kaal Purkh instructs her to wage war against the demons or inner demons as you say, then God assists her to help her destroy the demons too - are these now literal demons (the evil in the world)? If so, is what your referring to Miri-Piri in a nutshell, that one must become Sant before Sipahi in order to avoid the likes of tyranny, unjust actions etc?

I'll have a read of it. That's another thing you can thank the Sodhak Committee for removing.

If I had to guess I would say before. Maa Baala is referred to as Bhavani later on in the Charitr, and in the Dusht Daman story Chandi comes for help; so in a chronological sense if Mata Ji has manifested as Bhavani you could assume that it's her who goes to Dusht Daman because I believe Chandi, Durga, Bhavani, Bhagauti are used interchangeably. Maybe Suraj Prakash Granth just chooses to look at from a different perspective, or a more relatable one?

That's an interesting point about Krishan and Arjun. Maybe the answer can be found in Guru Gobind Singh Ji's commentary on the Gita? I wouldn't be surprised if there was seeing as the main theme of Dasam Granth and the Gita overlap somewhat.

Maybe the moral of this part of the story is one of redemption in the context of lakh chaurasi and or Karma, a warning of sorts for the reader? Although it would be highly dependant on Bhavani's status throughout the Charitr. I'm just speculating here.

 

The amount of Gyaan one can gain from just this one part of the Charitr and its veechaar has left me astonished I must say.

 

Time to sit back now and wait for the RSS comments and 'Hindu' accusations to start pouring in. *Leaves laptop to go and reapply Kanku and Chandan*

will respond to your post later on today bro, I have a meeting with my Pandit uncles. We need to discuss how best to corrupt the sikh youth.