liveandletlive

This topic was about sitting with your back towards Guru Granth Sahib Ji. It is developing into a whole new topic.

You get 1 person saying one thing and then another gets up and tries to be cleverer. Unfortunately these days we want things to fit into a box. But not everything does.

Everything comes down to your sharda and satkaar. This is very personal.

I know people who wouldn't download an App with Guru Granth Sahib Ji onto their phone for the reasons stated above. I also would not as i think it is disrespectful. But i wouldn't jump down your throat for doing it as i do not know enough to do that.

We should look at how our elders did Satkaar and how better Gursikhs than ourselves do. There are some examples in my last posts.

We are looking to our Guru for help/guidance/life. Our Guru does not need us. We will gain from our Guru. Not the other way around. We need our Guru. Not the other way around. If you are a beggar then first realise that, then behave as one.

If you think it is ok to sit with your back or download an app then carry on.

If i were admin i would close this topic. I think the initial point has been exhausted.

I said in my first post this is not something to jump up and down about. We shouldn't turn our back to Guru Maharaj where we can help it.

Interesting how you say 'you believe what you want and i'll believe what i want.' But then you then can't help but go back to the same thing again.

This is an issue of Satkaar and Sharda.

Everyone is at different levels.

Trivial as it may seem to you it may not be so trivial for others. It should be dealt with with pyar. Instead we come on here and get all irritated by others opinions and views.

Reminisce on the past is very important. Including the sakhi of Guru Arjan Dev Ji.

Baba Nand Singh Ji respected Guru Granth Sahib Ji as Jaagdi Jot.

http://babanandsingh.../sggs/index.htm

That's a different kind of respect. He didn't turn it into an idolistic worshipping ritual. The Shabad Guru is contained within the Shri Guru Granth Sahib, it holds the word, it is a vessel to carry the Naam.

No one is doubting Guru Sahib is the vessel. We follow examples set by our Guru.

Baba Nand Singh Ji respected Guru Granth Sahib Ji as Jaagdi Jot.

http://babanandsinghsahib.org/sggs/index.htm

<edited>

The more you insult the Religion of others shows you're not a Sikh of the Gurus at all.

The basics of Sikhi is that it does not involve idolatry, what you've said and those that do, are committing a sin. You've turned it into an Idol no better than Hindus.

Jis pāhan ka▫o pāṯī ṯorai so pāhan nirjī▫o. ||1||

That stone idol, for which you tear off those leaves - that stone idol is lifeless

I have read through this whole thread and the first insult to another religion is actually in your post. Nobody else has disrespected another religion.

You really need to calm down.

When did this happen?

Read my second post where i said 'trying to mislead people' not spreading misinformation.

I did not disagree with the Sakhi.

You said you were at Harmandir Sahib and someone got angry at someone for sitting with their feet towards Darbar Sahib. You asked didn't Guru Nanak Dev Ji fight this very thing.

I think you are confused. Like i said before spend less time debating.

I am not here to disagree with Sakhiyan.

Veerji/bhenji please forgive me if I misunderstood. You said that "educated Sikhs were spreading misinformation" Sachseeker said that no matter where u sit your back is towards God. I thought for some reason you were disagreeing with this, I'm very sorry that I had misread.

Also, Beginner, did I say that Mecca was greater? Guru Nanak Ji used Mecca to support his claim, not me.

I think you should spend less time arguing and debating. It seems misunderstanding is very important here.

If you think it is ok to sit with your back to Guru Granth Sahib Ji because God is everywhere then i would love to have what you are on.

Who is saying what guy is spreading misinformation?

I don't see anything on this thread that says Guru Nanak Dev Ji was wrong.

Why didn't you ask the guy at Harmandir Sahib these questions? Why are you asking us on here? I am sure he would have answered your questions.

Like Sarabha Panjab has said deal with the thing there and then.

Brother/Sister I haven't got any argument. Please read my previous post where examples are given. I follow what people greater than me tell me. I am not here to argue.

Not everything has to fit into boxes.

Just an example of Great Gursikhs that many look upto:

http://www.babanands...g/sggs/back.htm

There are many other Gursikhs throughout history who have told us to see Guru Granth Sahib Ji as Jaagdi Jot. Even todays Gursikhs tell us the same.

Guru Arjan Dev Ji Maharaj slept on the floor whilst letting Guru Granth Sahib Ji rest on their own bed.

I would rather listen to them than todays educated sikhs who are trying to mislead people.

No one is disputing that the Bani is Guru and that we must follow the message. The message is the biggest thing. But Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our Guru (not a book or 'it' as you like to refer to them).

Stop trying to break peoples Sharda.

Just an example of Great Gursikhs that many look upto:

http://www.babanandsinghsahib.org/sggs/back.htm

There are many other Gursikhs throughout history who have told us to see Guru Granth Sahib Ji as Jaagdi Jot. Even todays Gursikhs tell us the same.

Was it not Guru Arjan Dev Ji Maharaj who slept on the floor whilst letting Guru Granth Sahib Ji rest on their own bed.

Sachseeker ji i would rather listen to them than todays educated sikhs who are trying to mislead people.

It is not something to jump up and down about BUT we should not sit with our backs to Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. I think most sikhs are aware of this but sometimes mistakes happen.

It is important to have love and respect for your Guru. We should have some peh.

Please refrain from sitting with your back to Maharaj when in their Darbar.

Thank you for the response.

Have you got any idea how many Gurdwaras?

I have been told there are 25 Gurdwaras in Italy. Can anyone confirm or is this about right?

I am told there is about 80,000 Sikhs in Italy.

If you can clarify or confirm your help would be much appreciated.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

How many Gurdwaras are there in Italy?

When did Sikhs first start to move to italy?

How much Sangat is there in italy?

I don't need precise answers, just a rough idea.

I would appreciate any answer to the above questions.

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

I apologise in advance to the Khalsa and Maharaj for any beadbi in my wording or my comments. It is not intended.

So just to clarify as I admit I am a bit slow.

The SGPC (S Gurdwara Parbhandak Commitee) had taken 450 Saroops of Guru Granth Sahib Ji to Italy.

Firstly i personally think it sounds like they have done as much Satkaar as possible whilst travelling (the special vehicles and ship). And i am not doubting the Satkaar issue whilst travelling.

A few questions:

The request was from Italy Gurdwaras?

How many Gurdwaras are there in Italy?

When and who was the first migrant to go to Italy?

Why is it Italy is always linked to Transportation of Saroops. Either it is from india or back to india? And normally it is a large number of Saroops?

Am i right is thinking that we here in UK have a problem with housing Saroops?

I have relatives who have approached Gurdwaras across the UK and asked if the Gurdwara has space for one Guru Granth Sahib Ji's pavitar Saroop, and they have been told no and to ask a different Guru Ghar.

I understand that some countries are isolated and there may be a need for some Guru Granth Sahib Ji Saroops. But why so many?

How many Saroops are being printed per year?

Am i right in thinking that only SGPC can print Saroops?

Are there any restrictions on the sale of Guru Granth Sahib Jis Saroop? Do you buy from SGPC or do they do this as a Sewa?

Are persons vetted or can any person be a part of the sale?

Again I apologise for any offence or beadbi in my comments or wording. I am merely trying to understand and learn about this situation.

I would appreciate any answer to the above questions. Even if you only know the answer to 1 please share.

What is going on at Sikhchannel right now?

Some live programme from India. I don't understand?

http://www.sikhchannel.tv/

I know I am posting this a bit late but I think we all need to be more aware. When these articles get published we should the first to read them and make sure they are correct and also then comment on the articles. Instead uneducated fools start commenting on them and this can have a very negative effect.

Simply typing in the word "sikh" into google usually brings up news articles.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/olympics/article-2064280/London-2012-Olympics-Sikhs-allowed-wear-Kirpan-daggers-Games.html

Akal Takht = Sadi Jind Sadi Jaan

We are 1 Panth and all come under the guidance of Akal Takht. The Panth is supposed to control the Akal Takht.

This is a really nice idea.

Isn't there other Gurdwaras where children take control of Seva?

I think Mata Sahib Kaur Sikh Academy in Ilford is one.

Singh Sabha are you a comittee boy?

Prat.

Thanks for the update.

FYI Sikhs are being asked to remove the Kara at Heathrow Airport. I have personally experienced this recently.

I won't attending Olympics if we have to be restricted in anyway shape or form. I think all Sikhs should boycott is we will be treated as second rate citizens.

So we can't wear our own legal Kirpan and instead have to swap for a smaller one?

Or have i read it wrong?

Hang on damaging relations with who? It does not matter how many backsides we kiss as a community we always get the short straw. Just look at how we are treated in airport securities. We are treated like we have done something wrong when we bloody well haven't.

Damaging relations with Sehajdhari population? I am sure i can spot a few of them amongst the Singhs.

I think most Sikhs understood what the issue is and it is just that some of us like to cry and are not capable of getting the message across.

The problem here is the Dudley commitee. They cried to the press about this. The press latched onto it. No one really cares.

It is never good to behave in a violent way but this is just pure rubbish.

We need to be a lot smarter in dealing with these things and keeping our cools.

There is already a thread on this topic.

This is old news...sensationalist reporting.

Some of the comments made by readers are disgusting. It is also shameful how the whole world thinks Sikhs can drink alcohol.

We need Parchaar But I guess we need to start by stopping our own Gurdwara buildings serving alcohol. Otherwise every shraabi will ask us why it is ok to drink in a Gurdwara building.

I didn't start this topic so we can discuss whether d-day was a good or bad move. I hope that is not what you are implying.

I agree with you that messages need to be clear. I think the jathebandian need to keep everyone informed. As it stands i am a bit confused as to where we are with the whole thing.

Defo everything should be thought through. Maybe we need to consider the american way of security...which is touching our own dastaar and then touching a tissue paper...rather than the swab thing.

We have more chance with the British and Americans than anywhere else in the world. We have to stick together on this issue.

In America you can touch your own Dastaar and then touch a tissue paper thing. That is what we should be pushing for across the globe. Being honest even the swob seems degrading.

But have to back Jathebandis for trying and clearly the Sikh Sangat is willing to stand on this issue.