Into the Light

I've just received a text that a rep from NSYF will be on BBC Asian Network today between 2 to 4pm.

As Nihal's show is 1 to 3pm, it is more than likely that the disccsion will actually take place between 1 to 3pm.

Those of you not at work, please keep the rest of us informed on how the show is going and whehter jasminder calls in. I'm more than happy to txt in but i can't tune it

Sajjan Thag was a serial killer but then became an important Gursikh leader after being reformed by Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

Very interesting point as this also applies for Bhumia Chor, Valee Kandaree & Kauda Raksh, who also transformed into Gursikhs. People can change and from what it looks like, Harbinder Rana appears to have changed...who are we to judge him on a crime he has already been sentenced for?

I'm not going to stick up for Sangat TV but i will say that what you've just said about Santgat TV not promoting the June 1984 Rally last year is exactly what sikh Channel did in the first year they opened....they refused to discussion/promote Kalistan/June Rally.

Sikh Channel quickly realised that if they want to retain support for the sangat they need to cater to the wants/needs of the sangat. Hence why Sikh Channel the year after started promoting the Rally. This could also be true for Sangat TV now. I say just appreciate that Sangat TV are now promoting the Rally and 1984/Sant Jee.

There is a huge list that we can say about Sikh Channel too...all in all in my opinion both are good in their own ways. Both have made huge blunders eg Sangat TV with the riots & Sikh Channel with cancelling Kam's show.

The lists are endless for both...but having said that the lists for the positivity of both are endless too. I personally know of a mona born and bred in the UK that became a Amritdhari just by watching both channels.

So, allow the conspiracy theories and either get involved in the Channels to bring about change or live with it!!!

Talk without action is cheap!

Interesting point raised by NEWSINGH99

What i've learnt from Muslims is first they learn to read the Qu'ran, next it's to memorise portions (or all) of the Qu'ran and then finally learn the meaning of it all. Just learning the recitation of the qu'ran is a course in itself. So a muslim who works will sign up to a 2yr or 4yrs course to learn how to recite the Qu'ran and memorise it. Only then do they have the option to go go to learn the meanings of the Qu'ran, which is another course that must be signed up to. These courses follow are Curriculum based approach, so starting off with words that frequently appear in the Qu'ran and then building up from there rather than just starting from the first page of the Qu'ran and working there way through it all. There are ways to effectively teach people and to understand the Qu'ran and this is done by starting off with easy and frequently seen words.

I think we need a similar sort of model too. From what i have seen in the UK is that most Santhiya (or Santha) classes, just teach the recitation of Gurbani with a few simple arths done by the Ustaad -this is not the fault of the ustaad - i just don't think the demand for arths is there just yet..but it is getting there now.

I think we too have to have to devlop such courses like the Muslims, but that will only happen when there is a demand for such classes. I can see the demand for Santhiya is increasing year on year but there doesn't seem to be enough Ustaad's (teachers) to fill the demand of teaching the meaning of Gurbani in an organised way...something similar to a course and having a curriculum.

My Muslim work colleague informed me that each Mosque in my city has a minimum of 5 teachers (what we call santhiya ustaads) and in his own Mosque there are 40 teachers teaching such courses. When i asked him about where the teachers have come from, he said 90% of all the teachers in his Mosque are UK born and as a result can effectively communicate with their students. It's quite interesting as santhiya seems very similar to the Muslims courses as they like sikhs start off with Letters and vowels (eg Pentee & Muharnee) and will reciting they need to know where to pause (eg Jakmee/Vishraams) and when to put in nasal sounds or not (ie bindi's).

We need to start a similar sort of approach too - Punjabi schools will NOT inspire kids to become Gursikhs but santhiya classes will - i know because i went to a Punjabi school for 7yrs which had 300+ kids and then later on went to learn santhiya (and still am) and i know how much difference santhiya had made in my life in just a short space of time.

But I think even santhiya classes need to be made into a courses and formalised where there is structure and testing but this will come with time...the demand seems to be there now, we need to focus on getting or creating Ustaads (teachers) now.

i heard it may not happen this year as there may just be a sevadaar camp...

i'm sure someone from BOSS will be able to confirm what is true on here though

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Thanks...i too sent in a text!

i'm at work when the show goes on, so never get to listen to it live...but if anything objectionable is ever said in the future, please do post it on here so ppl like me can text in and give our views too...Thanks

whats the number to text in?

That's not even an appology!!!

I too rate Lord Singh for taking this matter up though. I still think Sikh Council UK or Sikh Fed Uk should pursue this matter further though as it will send a very strong message.

For the past year or so I have been reading alot on sikhi and my passion for it has grown. I naturally started feeling like I

should keep my hair but have never had the strength to do so. Is there any advice anybody could give me? Im 22 and have a

shaved head at the moment and am unsure whether it will grow fully, is there anybody else in my situation?

For the past year or so I have been reading alot on sikhi and my passion for it has grown. I naturally started feeling like I

should keep my hair but have never had the strength to do so. Is there any advice anybody could give me? Im 22 and have a

shaved head at the moment and am unsure whether it will grow fully, is there anybody else in my situation?

Bro, just the fact that you have a desire to keep your Kes is kirpa in itself!!! But i would advise you to get regular Gursikh sangat as without sangat taking the step alone can be hard but not impossible. Sangat will keep you motivated to stay on the right path...All the best bro!

The Singh on Nihal's show you've mentioned is Navreet Singh and the Gurdwara is called Guru Hargobind Sahib Gurdwara in Coventry

i think a balance is needed. Rebel Singh is correct that english parchar should be introduced into Gurdwara's on the stage, even if it's only a 30min slot once a week on Sunday. Also i agree that all Gianni Singh's should have a good grasp of English too, this way they can do parchaar, outside of the Divaan where they could be approached by Gorae or western born punjabi youth...as there's alot of dukh out there and ppl do tend to turn to the Gurdwara but sadly they don't get any help...this is where a Granthi Singh should be able to help, in English if needed.

That said, i also agree with the other side of not losing Punjabi either. Firstly, there are words in Gurbani that just can't be translated into English, you can only try to get it close...thus the true message can easily be lost. And also Katha done in Punjabi is just too sikk...the passion - WOW!!!

The key here is balance...we do need English in the Gurdwara but at the same time punjabi must be maintained. The problem today is, there is no balance whatsoever...hence why our youth aren't being engaged. As another Singh said, we can't keep waiting for the committee to find the English parchaaraks...why? because there really ain't many at all...that's a fact! We're all waiting for someone else to do it...don't..be part of the solution (as said earlier)

i agree with the comments...when did Gatka become a sport for the amusement of people...so that they can see a tamasha? That's what circuses are for!

I have no respect whatsover for these new brand of gatka teams that go on shows for abit of glory at the expense of the panth!!!!

Bhesty is the only word that come to my mind!

However the person i know is quite upset after sending them replies but they dont post his letter upo and have edited most of it. He was actually thinking of making a website directly in responce to islam to sikhism.

any ideas??

Bro, i too would so get your mate to create his own website....the more the better!!

could you ask, why we can't remember our past lives at all yet our karam are based on the actions of previous lifes?

Is the concept of reincarnation in Sikhi different to sanskara in Hinduism?

Now everyone seems to have become a Sher...but these same people didn't have the guts to say anything to Baba Jee's face when he was here!

Are Heaven/Hell actual places? If Hell is an actual place for paying for ones sin, then why is there a need for reincarnation then as reincarnation is for paying back sin?

What's the difference between Heavan & Sachkhand?

Is Sachkhand an actual place?

Why do Nirgun Upshaks say there is no Heavan/Hell?

I'm not sure if i agree that Gadaffi would have helped the Sikhs...please find attached a picture of Indira & Gadaffi along with their families.

What date is 1880 bikarmi year in Western Calendar date?

The colour black, which some Sikhs seems to have a hatred for ( :blink2: ) was introduced into Gurmat in the Early 1900's in the Babbar Akali movement, where our forefathers sacrificed their all for us to live today. They wore this colour as a sign of protest and their blood and shaheedi cemented the colour back into our physche and into our lifestyles. It is an insult to their shaheediya if Sikhs today mock the colour black (which some do).

In honour of their sacrifices, the Guru Roop Khalsa Panth added a 4th colour to the Khalsa Panth to adorn...which was black, the other 3 being white, blue & kesri. The Guru Roop Khalsa Panth are just that, Guru Roop and have the authority to do so...so pls don't fall into the trap of a small minority that say black is forbidden as it is not!

it says in gurbani the baby is doing simran for 10 months, if thats the case then wasnt the soul their from the first day?

Spot on...this notion of the soul enters the babies body at day 120 comes from Yogi Bhajan. This notion is not found anywhere in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee as Sikhi doesn't support this statement.

i really enjoyed reading that Bhai Sahib...keep up the amazing work!

I must be honest that i personally struggle with reading history in Punjabi as sometimes the language used doesn't captivate me...so i look forward to reading your translation in Englisf of Kavi Sainapti writes about Guru Jee.

Those that read Gurbani will know that Satguru and Bhai Gurdas Ji (from Bhai Sahib's Vaars) tell us that Sri Chand is not to be idolized in anyway. Infact we are told Sri Chand did not recieve Mukhti;liberation (Bhai Gurdas ji Vaars).

Pajee, could you please share the pangtee with us please.

Thanks

I've noticed all of this and more as well. My take on this is to take it with a bit of understanding from their perspective. The best thing to do imo is not to go on a witch-hunt and to just approach the issue slowly with education.

I think recently Gurumustuk Singh mentioned Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Bhindranwale in one of his recent videos as well (I can't remember which one it was) but the key is slow and steady with understanding. I can understand what perspective they're coming from, whether or not it's correct, i don't know.

Bro, the video you are referring to is by Bibi Shanti Kaur Khalsa on Vaisakhi. She's very panthic minded and has seen the panth go through harsh times (even 1984) hence why she actually knows what she's talking about. Shes very well read especailly on puratan granths and can quote Gurbani to back what she's saying....i personally like her and have for years.

It's Guruka Singh's views i don't agree with...he's waaaaay to happy clappy and def some i call a pick and chooser when it comes to Sikhi. He is the one that mocks the Khalsa for not being without their Panj kakkar at all times, in his video he had ridiculed the idea that we take our kachera off one leg and put the new kachera on. His latest video on idol worship is just ridiculous...you just have to watch it to.

Sikhnet, i'm sure you'll be reading this...keep up the really good work but please do more video by Bibi Shanti Kaur, atleast she knows what she's talking about!

WOW - that's amazing seva!!!

Bro, why wait for them to go? Why should that stop you acting? The elder generation do not understand the younger generation, so you can take a 2pronged attack, by reasoning with them and also joiing the committees at the same time. If there were 10 of you committed to sewa at gurdwara, then the next time a committee is to be made, you ALL give your names in, and even if half of you get selected, then thats great, if none get selected then you should brung the issue before the sangat.

Also try talking to the elders, and asking them not to join the committee this time, as there is important work to be done.

FIGHT YOUR CORNER!!!

You have to the same right to be in the committee as anyone.

Chatanga is right...don't give up. The only way to bring about change is to get involved. The biggest obstacle in my personal experience that i've seen with youth is they'll turn up one sunday, want a meeting with the committee to start a new project. The problem with this is that regardless who you are the youth have to build the trust of the elders first...this is the key! Once the committee trust you, i guarantee you, you will face alot less challenges. I can't say that all committee members are very warming to youth. The best way to win over committee is to choose only one seva and do it consistantly. Don't get involved in any form of politics...choose a seva that only youth can do like Sikhi To The Max seva. All committee's want there to be a screen on sundays and Gurpurabs...be consistant with it and trust me you will eventually be listened to...why? Becuase they'll see you're committed and not a threat. That's how i did it, i stayed completely away from any form of politics and build up their trust. Now i'm involved in the education at the Gurdwara and co-Head teacher at the Punjabi school (my focus being Gurmat while the other Head teacher is punjabi). We have 110 students in the punajbi school from 5 to 17yrs old.

Your commitment and dedication can will the hearts and minds of even stubborn committee members.

If you've had previous run-ins with the committee then building their trust will be harder..i was lucky that i never had any previous run-ins. I'm not saying it's plain sailing for me now, i still have issues/grievances with the committee but they know that my seva is needed...so they have to compromise too (as do i).

Just get involved and leave the rest with Guru Sahib! Don't be discouraged when your slandered...because you will - but just keep your head in the charan of Guru Sahib and the rest Guru Sahib will handle.

Best of Luck!