Heera Singh

My question about Jesus' childhood hasn't been answered. I couldn't find the answer in the bible.

It is argued by many that He was in India (Kashmir region) and thats where he got ridh-sidh and became Enlightened...

apparently, i've heard about writings of kashmiri's from that time about a long-haired light (brown) skin man from the middle east coming... but that i have no sources for.. jus on hearsay..

It is certainly the Word of God

How do u figure that? As you know, humans are not without sin. So how do u know that the writings compiled in the Bible BY HUMANS were the real teachings of Jesus? Jesus never 'endorsed' the Bible... nor did he compile it... ur argument is flawed by 'blind faith' (in my opinion). Just because the apostles accepted some writings, and they wrote gospels which were input into the bible (YEARS after the 'death' of Jesus), that does not make it Gods word. Anybody could've said 'Jesus said this'. There's no way of knowing what is tru and what is not.

You said u are in search of the Truth; how can you logically think that everything in the bible IS really what Jesus said/preached? How do u know that people did not put their own writings in and proclaim them to be the teachings of Jesus? you do not. Not only that, there is no original text to compare to. That way, texts could have EASILY been tampered with over time.

Not to forget Paul, who didn't know Jesus during his life, but to whom Jesus appeared personally after his return to Heaven, and who recieved all his teachings from Jesus himself in a vision.

Where is there proof of that? Just because he said it, it makes it true? Tomorrow I could say to everybody that Guru Nanak Dev Jee appeared before me in a vision and told me to write more 'hymns' for our Scriptures, does that mean its true? no, not at all. Anybody can proclaim anything.

Logically thinking, Jesus was an educated being. IF God willed, GOD would have made Jesus write GODS word down. Why would normal (sinful) humans be given that task to 'compile' the word of God? doesn't make any sense. The prophet (Jesus) was very able to do that task. Why did man take it upon himself to write a book and proclaim it to be the word of God?

I think a baby that dies has not yet sinned, so it has nothing that disearves a punishment.

But doesn't Christianity believe that all humans are BORN with sin?

That's why only the gospels that were written by people who either had known Jesus on Earth (Matthex, Mark and John) or who were close to the apostles (Luke) were accepted, and also only those who concorded with the teachings of the apostles.

There are a few diff writers in the bible who never knew Jesus... being close to an apostle doesn't make it the word of God..

^^ welcome back.. good to see that you're open to mature discussion

and peacemaker... nobody is making any sort of attacks... he's made comments.. and we're responding to those comments.. and vice versa... this is a discussion, not a debate on who's path is better.

scared him off? how... no threats were made this was a propper mature discussion ... i don't think anything should've scared him off..

Oh Philip philip.. where art thou?

I was thinking that EXACT same shabad when i read the title of this thread...

with Punjabi culture, it almost always ends up with basically 2 families marrying/getting together. So we do need to look at the bigger picture.

isn't that a part of the problem, though? why not exterminate the problem at the source... we're not talking about punjabi culture, we're talking about a SIKH marriage.. and in a SIKH marriage there's no place for caste.. just think of what your Guru Sahib would say..

Frankly, I side with parents on this issue.

thats very unfortunate... i would imagine if u were in that exact same situation u would have a different belief..

It is extra baggage we have to carry of previous generations. God willing, we will be able to get rid of this caste plague within a couple of generation in the future./quote]

no, we do not have to carry it.. we can get rid of it... if we CHOOSE...

punjabi/indian culture has a lot of backward thinking... most in the western world would be shocked (in a negative way) at some of the customs/beliefs these people have...

not to say that there aren't some good ones... but mostly, it really irritates me..

If you can live a pure life, with always love for you fellow human being, and without one single sin, than you can be saved. That's why I believe babies who were born dead are saved, because they haven't sinned yet, so they don't deserve any punishment.

But, christianity believes that man is BORN with sin; so doesn't your opinion go against that belief? Christianity doesn't believe in re-incarnation so doesn't believe in past karma -- so a baby who is dead at birth would not (by beliefe of Christianity) be liberated/saved. -- even before it is actually 'born' there is life in that being; so it would (at one point) have been 'alive' even if it was still inside the mothers womb.

Yes, if you live a perfect life, without one single bad action and even without one bad thought, you will be saved, that's beyond all doubt. But, honestly, is there anyone on Earth who has never done anything wrong ? I don't know for you, but I know anyway for me that I have sinned. And I suppose you're the same. I suppose you've never killed anyone, I haven't either. But, have you never stolen, have you never lied, have you never said anything nasty to someone, or even thought ? I have done each of these things, and I suppose nobody can say he hasn't. The Bible says that all men have sinned, and surely it's true. And God is simply too holy to tolerate only one single sin if His presence, and He is too just to let one single sin, ever so small, unpunished. That's why by human nature all men and womed, me included, are due to Hell as a punishment for their sins. And all the good you can do simply can't help you to please God, because only one single sin is sufficient to be punished.

As Sikhs we also believe that we are of Sin. But we are given this human form so that we can wash away our sins from our past lives (and the current life) and become God-Conscious Souls. We can only wash away our sins by total devotion; seva (selfless service of humanity), simran (mind-focussed meditation), sangat (congregating with like-minded and saintly people), kirat karna (earn a truthful living), vand shakna (sharing your wealth -- i.e. tithing), reading Bani (from our Guru - Sree Guru Granth Sahib Jee), PURE love of the heart etc... However, there are those beings who have over lifetimes washed away all their sins and have become 'God-Conscious' souls (Brahm Gyanee's). There are those enlightened beings who become "Jevan Mukat" (liberated while still alive) -- where they only see God, and they only Live God; and their soul has already merged back with the Lord just like a raindrop merges back with the ocean it came from.

So, mankind is totally incapable to save itself on his own. But that's why God, who loves His creatures and doesn't want them to get lost, did Himself everything that was necessary for our salvation : He came Himself on Earth as a man, Jesus, who was at the same time entirely human and entirely God. Jesus lived, and told people about love for each other, because that is indeed what God desires from us. And Jesus is the only human being who ever lived, who actually never committed a single wrong thing : because He was God become flesh on Earth, He was without sin. But He hadn't comme to instaur a religion on Earth, and to teach his followers forever on : He came in the purpose to die for us, in ouyr place, to take on Himself the punishment of our sins. Jesus died on the cross, and He suffered the punishment that you and me diserve. But He became alive again too, and by His resurrection He has wone the victory over death for ever on. And after this He went back to Heaven, but He will come back on Earth at the end of time, to judge all men's deeds.

Do you have any source that says Jesus is the only one who lived who did not commit any wrong? I could say the same for our Gurus... Again, ur thoughts come from the bible; and the bible is not the Word of God, but the Word of Man... there's a BIG difference!

This is a beautiful Bible verse you've quoted here. In fact it's a key verse for the whole message of the Gospel. God created man, but man has sinned, most religions in the world agree on this point. But because he loves us so much, God sent us what He had the most precious : His only Son, a part of Himself, Jesus. Jesus was God Himself who became man and lived on Earth.

This is what confuses most people; If Jesus was God's Son, how can he be God himself? and if he is God himself, why is there the concept of the 'trinity'? The concept of the trinity (father, son, and holy spirit) is separating the 3 entities, but you have said they are both one and the same? the concept of the trinity was only brought forward more then 3 centuries after the passing of Jesus at the council of Nicea

Also, I don't think any faith has any right to say that their prophet was the 'only' or the 'last' etc...

And He came to die on the cross for the sins of the whole world, for yours and mine. And so today, everything who believes Jesus died for him personally, and who accepts His sacrifice for his own sin, has all his sins forgiven and can be sure he is saved.

so is that to say that as long as a person believes Jesus to be his/her saviour, that they will be saved? seems too convenient, doesn't it? Your beliefs come from a scripture that has been altered and changed many times over history... in fact, there are no original scriptures... not to mention the original scriptures weren't even written in English; they were translated to 2 or 3 other languages before the english translation was even written -- and we all know that translating from one language to another, a lot of meaning is lost....

not to mention, there are a good number of people who believe that Jesus didn't even die on the cross... but thats a whole diff topic altogether...

point being, ur basing your beliefs from a book that was:

1. not written by Jesus

2. has no original/authentic source

3. has been altered/mistranslated over centuries

4. has many errors and contradictions

5. was compiled decades after the 'death' of Jesus

6. based on the 'vision' of some self-proclaimed saints

A tru seeker of truth will do logical research on things like this -- btw, nowhere am I denying or downgrading the being of Jesus - if he was in front of me right now, i'd Kiss his feet... however, I don't believe that the Bible is a proper/tru depiction of the message that he spread and the way he lived his life... don't get me wrong, there's a lot of good things, but a man made book cannot be called the word of God; its the word of MAN...

I have believed this about 7 years ago now, and since this instant I know, beyons all doubt : if I die now, I will be saved, not because I am better than other persons, I know I indeed am a sinner, but because Jesus has already took on Himself the wrath of God against me for my sin, and has taken on Himself the punishment for everything wrong I've done. But there also the other side of the message : everyone who doesn't believe in Jesus remains under the wrath of God because of his sins (except, of course, if you suppose you've never sinned at all, but I don't think anyone here thinks this of himself ), and will go to Hell if they refuse to believe until their last breath. Including Sikhs. This is not a menace, it's just a warning.

This is exactly what missionaries use to go and convert people (and i'm not saying ur a missionary or anything). But they go around and tell people "as long as u believe in Jesus, u'll be saved"... umm.. okay, so I can be an alcoholic, a druggie, a rapist etc.. but as long as i believe in Jesus i'll be saved? sounds too convenient for me... doesn't make any sense.. u have to do some logical thinking on this... when christianity first started it was very controversial and in many places 'illegal'.. once it became legalized they had to find a way to spread it fast... in my opinion, this is what happened.. in that time there was a lot of religious tension in places.. and for them to get the most followers they had to tell stories... one of them being 'Jesus died for your sins', another being "believe in Jesus as your saviour and u will be saved"... most people would probably be like "dang.. i don't have to do anything and i can be liberated? sign me up!!!"... logically speaking, it wouldn't come down to that...

Everyday is to be devoted to God... not just one day of the week... that is why a Gurdwara is open 7 days a week; our Guru's taught us that there is no 'holy' day of the week.. every day is to be used as a day of worship; morning, afternoon, and night...

whether u do that worship at home, or at temple/church/mosque or any other building of worship, the point is to still do that worship on a daily basis... having a building of worship is mostly just a means to have a group of like-minded people come together in a congregation and do their worship together as a group -- being around like-minded people helps us on the spiritual path because we feed and learn off eachothers positive energy...

by placing the bibi in front are u inferiorizing the singh?

may be they shud go sidebyside,

no wait, the one would be closer to maharaj and one further, dammit

one cud sit on the others shoulders...

but then they'd be higher up as well, again, not fair

maybe they shud make maharaj do the laavaa around te couple?

but that wud be blasphemous

they shud put an antigravitational field around maharaj, and then the couple can orbitaround instead of walking the laavaa

THIS was hilarious.. but also puts things into perspective.. its all about how you look at things.. the hidden messsage i got from this post is that equality does not mean the same... and it depends on what mindset the person has..

well seing as you talked about Sant Bhindranwale, i would like to say that Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale said that women should go in front of men in Lavaan, there is no difference between man and women, they are equal

wrong.

hope this answers your question.

note Sant Ji also describes those people who kickstart these sort of pointless debates and controversies as Naastiks. when we look at Sikhi we shouldn't bring our own westernised mindset with us. women were being treated like dirt in the west when our Gurus taught that they should be given respect.

good points... there's too much stress put on pointless debates and not enuff on productive things..

Years ago Shanti Kaur questioning Harbhajan Singh about the practice of having the Palay (the shawl) wrapped over the Mans shoulder, and the woman holding it from behind as the man leads the woman. She thought this was some old non Sikh practice and was wondering why we do this. Especially from the aspect of why the woman had to be in the back and following the man (being subservient).

The first answer that Yogi Bhajan gave Shanti Kaur was, Well, someone has to go first.(chuckle) But he was just testing her, and of course she wasnt satisfied with that answer. When she pushed the point, he replied, It is all in your point of view. You see the woman following the man subserviently. What I see is that marriage is a carriage in which the husband and wife ride to Infinity together. The horse is in front and the driver sits behind and holds the reins. He was teaching her that people filter things through their own frame of reference and that it is not “this or that but that there are many levels of meaning.

very good story... and good meaning behind it..

just to add.. the whole 'husband going first' thing isn't only a part of indian culture... for example, when a native couple walks, the husband always walks first ahead of the wife... they do this because the husband is supposed to be the protector of his wife (and kids if they have)... so if anything were to happen (for example a bear pops outta nowhere) then the husband would be in a position where he would be able to protect his family and his family would be able to go to safety..

make of it what u will... but personally i still think its the husbands/fathers job to fend for and look after his family... i would much rather myself put into harms way before my wife..

dude.. is this what u do with all ur spare time???

btw... a lot of profanity in this video.. i would suggest it be removed from this site...

Lord have mercy on the babies...

I was asked this past weekend as a joke "Singh, what ticks you off?"... after thinking for a second I said half-jokingly "indians!"... not so much a joke anymore..

and to tec9 bhaji, lol, u say sikhi is not a religoin? lmao are u joking buddy? "sikh ek vakri kaum eh" the words of sant jarnail singh ji(who's nitnem was 151 jap ji sahibs)...... and here u are, obviously some bigtime bhramgiani or something who thinks sikhi is not even a religion. wake up man. wake up!

he's actually right... sikhi is NOT a religion.. it is a way of life... do u know the meaning behind that statement by Sant Jee? a lot of people were saying Sikhism is an offshoot (a part of) Hinduism.. Sant Jee said no, we are a diff path then them.. Sikhi is istinct... in fact, we shouldn't even refer to it is "sikhISM", since "ism" denotes it as a 'religion' so to speak... I think it was Bhai Vir Singh (or Prof. Puran Singh) who said "I have No religion, but I am a Sikh"...

Sikhi is a way of life...

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh!

its very simple... who's gonna marry you, him, or his parents? if he's willing to drop this because his parents "don't want" sum1 of a diff caste, then he doesn't deserve to be with you... its as simple as that.. .

if he's got the guts to stand up for what he believes in, then he'll continue to this path of marriage with you.. if he doesn't, then he's not really a singh (in my opinion) and he doesen't deserive 'ur hand' in marriage...

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh!!

yeh. it happens... depending on the area it can be common...

i kno that singh (novtej singh) in the video... he told us all about it..

halo

don't take the risk just for a salaee... i used to get away with it when travelling, but one time i was comin back from india, and i had a stopover in chicago... i went through detectors and my kara's set the beeper off.. so the guy sat me on the side... and used that wand thingie to check all over.. he got to my dastaar and it beeped and gave me this kinda surprised look.. (i keep my salaee at the back of my head under my dastaar - behind my ear) so anywhoo.. i was thinkin to myself 'oh crap'.. and i looked at him.. and i'm like 'oh its the metal in the comb that i have in my hair'... he was kool, he's like 'okay thats fine' (i guess he knew we wore kanga's) and he's like 'i'm jus gonna feel ur turban with my hands, just think of it as a head massage'.. i jus laughed and said okay, and he didn't (thankfully) feel the salaee and i was on my way...

point being.. don't take a chance... this guy was really nice and kool.. but u never kno when ur gonna run into sum1 who's jus had a bad day or sum1 who's racist or whatever... and it can get u into a lot of problems for nothing..

I would be using email services but not a lot... i wouldn't be using any messenger type services... but the MP3 player/recorder stuff is huge for me... obviously STTM functionality is a bonus... vid/cam i don't use much anyways so thats not really that important to me; as long as it has the functions... right now i'm leaning towards the HTC Touch..

i've never seen the HTC diamond... i'll do some research on that...

and i wouldn't really get the iphone, just too expensive for my blood...

keep the comments coming everybody.. thanks!!

legally he can't do that.. he has to give u notice to leave at least 2 weeks or 1 month in advance.. depending on the laws where u live..

don't go anywhere just yet... he can't evict you for no reason... call the police..

this is exactly why all Sikhs should be firmly educated, so that when people DO come up to us with rubbish, we know what to say (and also how to say it - politely, with respect)

These questions are answered in Katha Sukhmani Sahib by Giani Thakur Singh Ji

can you provide the link, please?

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh!!

as Lowest bhenji said... before u make any decision, make it an informed decision... it seems u know the 'jist' of what Sikhi tells us, but u've also said ur not thoroughly knowledgeable about the path of Sikhi... one thing i would suggest before you make any decision is to completely understand why we do what we do... why we believe what we believe.. and why we live the way of life that we live... the word "Sikh" means learner or disciple.. so, IF you see urself as being a Sikh, then u will make the utmost effor to learn the ways and the why's...

if u are really a seeker of truth you will find out the answers to all your questions and you will make a completely informed, logical, and practical decision... if, after you've done all your 'research' and what not, you truly feel that you do NOT need to keep your hair, then that is your decision... at the end of the day, its your relationship with God... its between you and God and nobody can judge you or anything...

take the time to contemplate your decision... obviously its a big decision.. so make it an informed one... if u don't take the time to learn and contemplate, then posting here will really be a waste of time for both urself, and those who are posting responses...

the rest is up to you... its your relationship with God... so make a decision that you truly feel as right...

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee Fateh!!