$ingh $oorma

How are you so sure that it was anger ??..how old were you in 84 ?? reading a few books doesn't make you a historian bai.. you are sticking to your claim dat killin indra was worng..people in this thread have given examples, and you seem to ignore them just by saying times were diffrents then ... you have been ranting one thing over and over again...what does gurbani say about that...feeding your ego is a big sin aswell mitra. you are entitled to think whatever you want, but you are no one to judge other peoples actions. if you want to seriously talk on this topic, reply to every single thing that others post.. stop singing the Indra song...there are numerous examples where SWORD was the only answer. I respect your thinking..and you should too understand the feelings of the posters. the other posters (including me) cant convince you. and your views have failed to satisfy anyone here. you have been talking of the politics, acadamics and what not... i really want to know if Indra wasn't assasinated ( going by your thinking), what would be your plan of action against her ?? I would've made peace and encourged sikhs to jaap naam, have bhrosa in waheguru.. It might've taken time but we would have better then we are now. Remember a kill leads to another kill, but in this case kills lead to one kill which evetually led to lots of kills... And if we are here, stuck in problems it wasn't Indras fault or someone of outcast, Its was our own fault. Its was our own Sikh bhais fault. We let them create antother sects.. We let our panth wander around.. we are responsible for babas today like pehowa etc..you know what makes one bow to pehowa.. being uneducated.. or educated without good morals and deeds.. If we had taksal, we just changed the course of it.. The situation we in now matchs the situation of Christians in midievel times... read histoty, not just sikh history but the history of man... you will learn... a lot. Our gurus were great they just didn't studied sikh pothia, sikh itihaas (as it grew), punjabi but studied everything that was around them.. they studied kuran, veds, learn't about other religions buddism, jewish, jesus etc..they studied everything.. they studied history of whole India... If guru gobind singh ji would have been like us as we are know, don't you think after killings of thousands of sikhs they would have gotten up and killed Aurangzeb.. instead of writing a letter to him..

did you interview bhai beant singh and bhai satwant singh when coming to this conclusion? I pity sikhs like you who question mahaan shaheeds of the panth and never question the tyrannical system of persecution and genocide. For you, the best advide is to take out the martial tradition of the sikhs. But this puts indians in a very grave predicament. 1)take out the martial tradition of the sikhs and the khalsitan movement dies. 2) take out the martial tradition of the sikhs and Pakistan is doing Namaaz in the Red Fort the next day. be careful what you wish for. people like you with so much academic know how waste your energy on analyzing the deaths of a few Indian tyrants and ignore the deaths of thousands of innocents. Indian house negro sikhs waste hours and hours debating about indira's death but don't spend a minute on the tens of thousands of innocent sikh victims. read your Kushwant sio, he caters to people like you. Tenu tera kushwant sio mubarak. If our posts are not up to your level of intelligence then wadayiaah. peace. What are you talking about? Khalistan..., A different nation for khalsa. A nice one... :D . Remember we don't even know for sure who began the idea of khalistan, if you are going to answer sant jarnail singh ji then don't even mind writing because during interview with BBC reporter sant ji said they don't wan't a different nation.. If you ppl think Khalistan will make it better for us.. then save the PITY for yourself...

If one reads the gurbani and understands it and the history along with it, will notice that the events that took place in past COLLIDE parallely with some base things in Sikhism. Everything that happens, happens in raja of waheguru, and happens for good. One must always stay in Chardi Kala, Always have a positive, optimistic and buoyant view of life. God is there - He will be your help! Which led to Indras death and others was ANGER, while a sikhs main and first job is to defeat these five thieves: Lust, Anger, Greed, Attachment, and Pride. In gurbani its also states that attack (i'm talking about sri guru granth sahib ji here, not dasam granth) your enemy, not with kirpans, not with armies etc but with:- Contentment, Charity, Kindness, Positive Energy (Chardik Kala), Humility... At the end:- "Some read the Vedas, and some the Koran. Some wear blue robes, and some wear white. ||3|| Some call themselves Muslim, and some call themselves Hindu. Some yearn for paradise, and others long for heaven. ||4|| Says Nanak, one who realizes the Hukam of God's will, knows the secrets of his Lord and Master. ||5||9||"

I think thats good point because in sri guru granth sahib ji it says:- But I believe Suleman's point of not meditating is still true. Why? Because we are misinterpretating it. If it is real then a basic answer from gurbani's view and best way to interpret that statement that meditating doesn't leads to mukti, because when we meditate, when we pray we pray with something in our mind. How many of us actually pray without a demand to waheguru... Some ask for good business, job etc? Some for health and good life etc? Did we ever said waheguru grant me naam, grant me your love thats all i need... Did we?

krmI AwvY kpVw ndrI moKu duAwru ] karamee aavai kaparraa nadharee mokh dhuaar || By the karma of past actions, the robe of this physical body is obtained. By His Grace, the Gate of Liberation is found. Here goes one more Joke Of the Day...

You forgot to read it again... Veera you forgot to read my posts, and you said its the man who changes the time, kiiling your arguemwnt and leading to:- "Means Never Fails, Its the Man Who Does." If you think Kirpan is the only answer at the end, it seems like we have tried "everything", why don't now we just raise our swords for our rights and our freedom... Don't be hotheaded, calm down, time changed because we changed it, because we wanted it to be like this, and now its time to put the time back on track not with swords but with something even mightier.. Never, Never, Never Give-up!!

Veera you forgot to read my posts, and you said its the man who changes the time, kiiling your arguemwnt and leading to:- "Means Never Fails, Its the Man Who Does." If you think Kirpan is the only answer at the end, it seems like we have tried "everything", why don't now we just raise our swords for our rights and our freedom... Don't be hotheaded, calm down, time changed because we changed it, because we wanted it to be like this, and now its time to put the time back on track not with swords but with something even mightier.. Never, Never, Never Give-up!!

Its ones opinion, we should respect everyones opinion and thoughts. If it bring you more close to Sikhi and Waheguru then its true for you, If you think its bringing you farther apart then its false.. If it helps believe in it, but if it doesn't then disregard it and walk your way out.. and continue..

And if you read carefully some of the topics at sikhsangat, think carefully you will find an answer at the end that "We" are the answer to "Our" problems. If we need something changed we must get a grip of that, instead of hoping that someone else will listen to you or pay attention to our 5-20 men "Jaloos" in nation of millions...

Manmohan singh has control of Indian Airlines being PM of the nation, not of the world airlines. If yo are that eager to allow sikhs to wear kirpan allover the world, why don't you rise up, and be one of the decision makers.. if possible bring more with you.. it will only help us.. Its easy to say veera we need freedom around the world, that we want hair cutting incidents to stop, its easy to go out and do a little "jaloose".. which goes all in vain at end. We as sikhs need to rise up and get a grip of things we want changeed for our good.. instead of hoping others to do it for you.

chalo let's tackle this great theory of yours: 1) politically: Manmohan Sio is the PM of the country. first sikh PM. Tytler was in his cabinet. hasn't magaed to even get a memorial made for 1984 delhi pogrom victims. there goes nunber 1 of your four allies. 2) Economically: Punjab is a economic disaster. The economy of teh country is controlled by the central government. your a learned man and probbaly know that punjab has no right over t's river waters and the electricity pool ignores the demand of power for punjba. chalo, there goes economic power. 3) Socially: The sikh more so the punjabi culture is very dominant in indian society. The social values of sikhs are very well known so much so that the wider hindu culture of bollywood has made it a source of humiliation of teh sikh community. Good luck taking over the social fabric of 900 million hindus with a billion dollar media industry. 4) academically: sikhs have good representation in all professional fields. however, being smart, has never won anyone freedom or rights. look at history. no one claimed to be smarter than the brahmin pandits, but their smartness couldn't stop the mughals from taking their daughters to be sld in afghanistan. "singh soorma" you've just digged yourself a hole and and now are using the typical indian sikh approach of using "idioms" and other "academic" approaches a la Kushwant singh to impress people to the point taht they will just bow down to your academic "prowess" and accept your argument as a valid option to the accepted struggle by the sikh nation. good luck. peace. There goes another one, looks like you didn't red the topic throughly and just paid attention to bold points. And the 4 allys you showed goes against you, and your post. I am here to encourage that we control those four allys and do good for panth.. If there is traitor controlling those so we should take over... Those times were different. If you are academically strong you can get a proffesional job, stand out in politics and leadthe economy, then see what happens.. a man with good deeds and these 4 allys can bring light to panth again in India, can rule it bytaking over from anti-sikh govt.... If you don't still get it PM me on MSN or AIM.. Just remember its easy to tackle a killer who has no idea then one who's outsmarting you, but still the outsmarter will lose thats the law of nature.. a killer is a killer.. All i want to say again, is Sikhs should rise above the past and get a grip of academics, politics, economy and society.. I said it beofre and will say it again If not now then we will NEVER. you mentioned guru ji being called dacoit in books, whose fault is that, think for a while and you will say its OURS. Why? We were unable to get someone in the board... All it matters at the end is ONE man...

I just wanted to share my favorite motivational song, Impossible Dream. Recently it got famous because Honda Motors of U.K used it in their commercial, some of you from uk might have seen it. I just wanted to share the song with you, as its very inspiring and motivational:- Honda's Video of Impossible Dream (Honda Website) Impossible Dream Audio (Original Version) Lyrics Are As Following:-

Sorry forgot to upload this one...

Below are my favorite pictures:- The one with Sikh guy on scooter, i have a shirt with that also, little modified.. ppl ask me from where i got it :D & i think the gurudwara picture should be pic of the month...

Baba, praying and preaching is a mis interpretation. BABA originally means and meant from back then was a person whose beared is white and is older. It was a word used to respectly call them.. As per Guru Nanak Dev Ji, they were old, there beared was white when they were preaching and people started calling them Baba, thats whay by gurdas ji wrote:- "Fir BABA Geya Baghdad Hu" Also, I just remembered that there is or was also a discussion at SikhNet, Heres the link:- Suleman Da Bhoot..

Time changes, guru ji's times were different and so are ours. If kirpan is the only answer then its been years howmany i think 90-100yrs and thousands of sikhs have been killed, betrayed, why don't we all get together and kill everyone who hates us or whos "Anti-Sikh"... sounds good... Why go to school when we can do anything using kirpan, why go to work when kirpan will serve as a way for money, why?? Just remember we are Sikhs, its our job to learn not to stick with the past, thats why we are called sikhs, the learners. If after all these killings, we haven't learned anything then when will we... If not now then we will never. Whatever you say, but heres what i wanted to say before, "When all means fail, Its righteous to pickup the sword." Heres my answer to that as a sikh, all means never fail, its the you who fails, if you fail once try again, and again, and again, but never giveup, trying will eventually pay off... Suppose you wanted to get education but you failed its not educations fault that you failed its yours.. and you should try better next time, if not then sit home in shame... that also sounds good... or just get kirpan or gun walk to the teacher and tell her/him to pass you all the times.. this actually sounds better.. Now concluding, We need to rise above the theory of kirpan. We need to control all four ally's:- Academics, Society, Poltics, & Economy. That was past, now its present, learn how to live in present and carve your and the panths furture instead of making it revolve it around what happened. Its our choice now... Past or Present??

Kill their ego for you?? Thanks for showing us the light mate, I can't believe us Singhs were lost all along. A good one... should we list it in Joke of the Day...

You're being naive if you think Khuswant Singh used the mouse idiom without malice intentions. Using such idioms for Santji is insulting to any Sikh. Besides, he's called Santji other names before, and also in this novel, so don't think it's just an innocent idiom. It's easy to preach peace and diplomacy sitting in ivory towers. You have not understood the gravity of presecution Sikhs have had to suffer. Here we go again.. (not really) just read the topic again, and again, and again, until you get something out of it... The above quoted sentence tells me you didn't read the whole thread and just wanted to stuck your leg in.. That line about ivory tower was written without thinking, as it came from mind, without thoughts, with the flow of anger.. If i want to i can continue, but am a sikh (Its just that line is so stupid to say in this thread), and hope you think before you write, i hope you learn about consequences or in other terms a possible reply, before you say or write something.. May waheguru grant you naam.. Fateh!!

This is what i was trying to explain to you papi, "Where there is forgiveness, there is God Himself."

I would suggest go, because you should be socially active. Go to prom with good means, with your parents permission, have fun, but be careful don't do anything Stupid..

Does England has HB-1 or HB-2? Cause lot of people migrate to US on basis of these visas? See if they do then apply on those basis or try applying in US.. who knows you might get lucky :TH:

You think it was <admin-cut> then why did you take part in it?? Remember people who are bad see everything is bad.. "What a Man, Who Changes his Words." I thought you did learn something, but still nothing went in you, i hope if not me someone else will be able to ..

I know but the soldier part is not that if one kills you should "kill" him/her also. You can kill your enemy in many ways, you can be a soldier in many ways it just doen't has to be the one with gun... A soldier is a soldier, you can kill your enemy using the above listed four ally's also.. And if you know the tuk, present it... or just mention the translation or any hints... Killing Enemy in Sikh doesn't means KILL HIM/HER. It means kill their ego for you, etc.. Its us who take things literally that Killing Enemy means shoot him/her... :D

Heres one more:- Hope it helps..

For my guru and for my sangat i will do the same, but killing no, I will make them pay by other means, and will also leave it on waheguru to punish him/her... But i won't play GOD..