$ingh $oorma

Which led to Indras death and others was ANGER, while a sikhs main and first job is to defeat these five thieves: Lust, Anger, Greed, Attachment, and Pride.

How are you so sure that it was anger ??..how old were you in 84 ?? reading a few books doesn't make you a historian bai.. you are sticking to your claim dat killin indra was worng..people in this thread have given examples, and you seem to ignore them just by saying times were diffrents then ... you have been ranting one thing over and over again...what does gurbani say about that...feeding your ego is a big sin aswell mitra. you are entitled to think whatever you want, but you are no one to judge other peoples actions.

if you want to seriously talk on this topic, reply to every single thing that others post.. stop singing the Indra song...there are numerous examples where SWORD was the only answer. I respect your thinking..and you should too understand the feelings of the posters. the other posters (including me) cant convince you. and your views have failed to satisfy anyone here.

you have been talking of the politics, acadamics and what not... i really want to know if Indra wasn't assasinated ( going by your thinking), what would be your plan of action against her ??

I would've made peace and encourged sikhs to jaap naam, have bhrosa in waheguru.. It might've taken time but we would have better then we are now. Remember a kill leads to another kill, but in this case kills lead to one kill which evetually led to lots of kills...

And if we are here, stuck in problems it wasn't Indras fault or someone of outcast, Its was our own fault. Its was our own Sikh bhais fault. We let them create antother sects.. We let our panth wander around.. we are responsible for babas today like pehowa etc..you know what makes one bow to pehowa.. being uneducated.. or educated without good morals and deeds.. If we had taksal, we just changed the course of it.. The situation we in now matchs the situation of Christians in midievel times... read histoty, not just sikh history but the history of man... you will learn... a lot. Our gurus were great they just didn't studied sikh pothia, sikh itihaas (as it grew), punjabi but studied everything that was around them.. they studied kuran, veds, learn't about other religions buddism, jewish, jesus etc..they studied everything.. they studied history of whole India...

If guru gobind singh ji would have been like us as we are know, don't you think after killings of thousands of sikhs they would have gotten up and killed Aurangzeb.. instead of writing a letter to him..

Which led to Indras death and others was ANGER, while a sikhs main and first job is to defeat these five thieves: Lust, Anger, Greed, Attachment, and Pride.

did you interview bhai beant singh and bhai satwant singh when coming to this conclusion?

I pity sikhs like you who question mahaan shaheeds of the panth and never question the tyrannical system of persecution and genocide. For you, the best advide is to take out the martial tradition of the sikhs. But this puts indians in a very grave predicament.

1)take out the martial tradition of the sikhs and the khalsitan movement dies.

2) take out the martial tradition of the sikhs and Pakistan is doing Namaaz in the Red Fort the next day.

be careful what you wish for.

people like you with so much academic know how waste your energy on analyzing the deaths of a few Indian tyrants and ignore the deaths of thousands of innocents. Indian house negro sikhs waste hours and hours debating about indira's death but don't spend a minute on the tens of thousands of innocent sikh victims.

read your Kushwant sio, he caters to people like you. Tenu tera kushwant sio mubarak. If our posts are not up to your level of intelligence then wadayiaah.

peace.

What are you talking about? Khalistan..., A different nation for khalsa. A nice one... :D . Remember we don't even know for sure who began the idea of khalistan, if you are going to answer sant jarnail singh ji then don't even mind writing because during interview with BBC reporter sant ji said they don't wan't a different nation..

If you ppl think Khalistan will make it better for us.. then save the PITY for yourself...

If one reads the gurbani and understands it and the history along with it, will notice that the events that took place in past COLLIDE parallely with some base things in Sikhism.

Everything that happens, happens in raja of waheguru, and happens for good. One must always stay in Chardi Kala, Always have a positive, optimistic and buoyant view of life. God is there - He will be your help!

Which led to Indras death and others was ANGER, while a sikhs main and first job is to defeat these five thieves: Lust, Anger, Greed, Attachment, and Pride.

In gurbani its also states that attack (i'm talking about sri guru granth sahib ji here, not dasam granth) your enemy, not with kirpans, not with armies etc but with:- Contentment, Charity, Kindness, Positive Energy (Chardik Kala), Humility...

At the end:- "Some read the Vedas, and some the Koran. Some wear blue robes, and some wear white. ||3|| Some call themselves Muslim, and some call themselves Hindu. Some yearn for paradise, and others long for heaven. ||4|| Says Nanak, one who realizes the Hukam of God's will, knows the secrets of his Lord and Master. ||5||9||"

the guy says u cannot achieve mukti by meditating on gods name. then how do u achieve mukti?

I think thats good point because in sri guru granth sahib ji it says:-

"All the sins of that humble being are taken away, all the pains are taken away, all diseases are taken away. Sexual lust, anger, greed, attachment and egotistical pride are taken away. The Lord drives the five thieves out of such a person of the Lord. ||1|| Chant the name of the Lord, O Holy Saints of the Lord. Meditate on the Lord of the Universe, O Holy people of the Lord. Meditate in thought, word and deed on the Lord, Har, Har. Worship and adore the Lord, O Holy people of the Lord."

But I believe Suleman's point of not meditating is still true. Why? Because we are misinterpretating it. If it is real then a basic answer from gurbani's view and best way to interpret that statement that meditating doesn't leads to mukti, because when we meditate, when we pray we pray with something in our mind. How many of us actually pray without a demand to waheguru... Some ask for good business, job etc? Some for health and good life etc? Did we ever said waheguru grant me naam, grant me your love thats all i need... Did we?

jehdi v gal karo tu gurbani di tuk chuk ke mera sir outa marna. koi engreji v aundi. :D

the guy says u cannot achieve mukti by meditating on gods name. then how do u achieve mukti?

krmI AwvY kpVw ndrI moKu duAwru ]

karamee aavai kaparraa nadharee mokh dhuaar ||

By the karma of past actions, the robe of this physical body is obtained. By His Grace, the Gate of Liberation is found.

Here goes one more Joke Of the Day...

You forgot to read it again...

i said time stays the same, people do different things in the world but timestays the same. i never said man changes time?

ok so we take 2 gurus out now and we have 9 guru's left according to ur peaceful theory. singho take ur kirpan off and keep ur 4 kakkars on.

brother time never changes, its people who change themselves. time stays the same, people do everything in the world. We are sons maharaj guru gobind singh jee, we have more tyrants in todays world then in past times, will u forgive osama bin ladin if he had killed that many sikhs?I wouldn't becasue sometimes death is the only good thing for those kind of people. If there was only forgiveness in todays kalyug then there would been 1000 deaths every day maybe more. U are right today is different world, we have advanced tachnology with superior weapons then past shastars our guru jee had put everything else is same. we have saintsoldiers to finish tyranny everywhere from different religion or at different locations. thats why death is very important for those who deserve death after killing innocent people.U can forgive the killer who killed ur mother father but if someone attacks the panth and our guru or our sangat he is goin to pay for it no matter what.Sri Guru Hargobind Ji, also encouraged and taught his followers, of which a majority joined his army to keep fit and practice Gatka, along with their NITNEM

"Guru Gobind appeared in the world as the tenth incarnation. he recited the name of the creator who is unseen, eternal, and saintliness. He established the Khalsa, a sect of his own, and gave it great glory. Wearing long hair he grasped the sword and smothered his enemies. He put on the breeches of self-restraint and practiced arms. He established the Sikh war-cry and was victorious in mighty battles. thus arose the race of Singhs who wore blue clothes. Gobind Singh! You were both Guru and disciple!"

U were givin quotes about forgiveness, let me give u a quote that dashmesh pita gave us.

"When all other means have failed, It is then righteous to take the sword in the hand."ZAFARNAMA

"The creation of the Khalsa was the greatest work of the Guru. He created a type of superman, a universal man of God, casteless and country less. The Guru regarded himself as the servant of the Khalsa. He said, "To serve them pleases me the most; no other service is so dear to my soul." The Khalsa was the spearhead of resistance against tyranny." Guru sahib jee da khalsa jaunda and hakh lao kaum lai.

This is when we use our swords.

"incident in India, after the prime ministers' death, an eighty year old man was attacked whilst riding his scooter in Delhi by a mass of 3000 people. He was forced to defend himself and so took out his Kirpan (sword) and using his knowledge of Gatka, seriously injured and killed many of his attackers. When the police arrived at the scene the attackers fled, one of the officers present at the attack reported "all I could see was an old man standing sword in hand and numerous dead body's lying around him."

ਗੁਰਸਨਹ ਚਿਹ ਕਾਰੇ ਚਿਹਲ ਨਰ ॥ ਕਿ ਦਹ ਲਕ ਬਰਾਯਦ ਬਰੋ ਬੇਖ਼ਬਰ ॥੧੯॥

How could forty famished persons fight in the battlefield, on whom ten lakh soldiers made a sudden attack.19.

ਕਿ ਪੈਮਾਂ ਸ਼ਿਕਨ ਬੇਦਰੰਗ ਆਮਦੰਦ ॥ ਮਿਯਾਂ ਤੇਗ਼ੋ ਤੀਰੋ ਤੁਫ਼ੰਗ ਆਮਦੰਦ ॥੨੦॥

Your army breaking the oath and in great haste plunged in the battlefield with arrows and guns.20.

ਬ ਲਾਚਾਰਗੀ ਦਰਮਿਯਾਂ ਆਮਦਮ ॥ ਬ ਤਦਬੀਰਿ ਤੀਰੋ ਤੁਫ਼ੰਗ ਆਮਦਮ ॥੨੧॥

For this reason, I had to intervene and had to come fully armed.21.

ਚੁ ਕਾਰ ਅਜ਼ ਹਮਹ ਹੀਲਤੇ ਦਰ ਗੁਜ਼ਸ਼ਤ ॥ ਹਲਾਲ ਅਸਤ ਬੁਰਦਨ ਬ ਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੀਰ ਦਸਤ ॥੨੨॥

When all other methods fail, it is proper to hold the sword in hand.22.

Veera you forgot to read my posts, and you said its the man who changes the time, kiiling your arguemwnt and leading to:- "Means Never Fails, Its the Man Who Does." If you think Kirpan is the only answer at the end, it seems like we have tried "everything", why don't now we just raise our swords for our rights and our freedom... Don't be hotheaded, calm down, time changed because we changed it, because we wanted it to be like this, and now its time to put the time back on track not with swords but with something even mightier..

Never, Never, Never Give-up!!

ok so we take 2 gurus out now and we have 9 guru's left according to ur peaceful theory. singho take ur kirpan off and keep ur 4 kakkars on.

brother time never changes, its people who change themselves. time stays the same, people do everything in the world. We are sons maharaj guru gobind singh jee, we have more tyrants in todays world then in past times, will u forgive osama bin ladin if he had killed that many sikhs?I wouldn't becasue sometimes death is the only good thing for those kind of people. If there was only forgiveness in todays kalyug then there would been 1000 deaths every day maybe more. U are right today is different world, we have advanced tachnology with superior weapons then past shastars our guru jee had put everything else is same. we have saintsoldiers to finish tyranny everywhere from different religion or at different locations. thats why death is very important for those who deserve death after killing innocent people.U can forgive the killer who killed ur mother father but if someone attacks the panth and our guru or our sangat he is goin to pay for it no matter what.Sri Guru Hargobind Ji, also encouraged and taught his followers, of which a majority joined his army to keep fit and practice Gatka, along with their NITNEM

"Guru Gobind appeared in the world as the tenth incarnation. he recited the name of the creator who is unseen, eternal, and saintliness. He established the Khalsa, a sect of his own, and gave it great glory. Wearing long hair he grasped the sword and smothered his enemies. He put on the breeches of self-restraint and practiced arms. He established the Sikh war-cry and was victorious in mighty battles. thus arose the race of Singhs who wore blue clothes. Gobind Singh! You were both Guru and disciple!"

U were givin quotes about forgiveness, let me give u a quote that dashmesh pita gave us.

"When all other means have failed, It is then righteous to take the sword in the hand."ZAFARNAMA

"The creation of the Khalsa was the greatest work of the Guru. He created a type of superman, a universal man of God, casteless and country less. The Guru regarded himself as the servant of the Khalsa. He said, "To serve them pleases me the most; no other service is so dear to my soul." The Khalsa was the spearhead of resistance against tyranny." Guru sahib jee da khalsa jaunda and hakh lao kaum lai.

This is when we use our swords.

"incident in India, after the prime ministers' death, an eighty year old man was attacked whilst riding his scooter in Delhi by a mass of 3000 people. He was forced to defend himself and so took out his Kirpan (sword) and using his knowledge of Gatka, seriously injured and killed many of his attackers. When the police arrived at the scene the attackers fled, one of the officers present at the attack reported "all I could see was an old man standing sword in hand and numerous dead body's lying around him."

ਗੁਰਸਨਹ ਚਿਹ ਕਾਰੇ ਚਿਹਲ ਨਰ ॥ ਕਿ ਦਹ ਲਕ ਬਰਾਯਦ ਬਰੋ ਬੇਖ਼ਬਰ ॥੧੯॥

How could forty famished persons fight in the battlefield, on whom ten lakh soldiers made a sudden attack.19.

ਕਿ ਪੈਮਾਂ ਸ਼ਿਕਨ ਬੇਦਰੰਗ ਆਮਦੰਦ ॥ ਮਿਯਾਂ ਤੇਗ਼ੋ ਤੀਰੋ ਤੁਫ਼ੰਗ ਆਮਦੰਦ ॥੨੦॥

Your army breaking the oath and in great haste plunged in the battlefield with arrows and guns.20.

ਬ ਲਾਚਾਰਗੀ ਦਰਮਿਯਾਂ ਆਮਦਮ ॥ ਬ ਤਦਬੀਰਿ ਤੀਰੋ ਤੁਫ਼ੰਗ ਆਮਦਮ ॥੨੧॥

For this reason, I had to intervene and had to come fully armed.21.

ਚੁ ਕਾਰ ਅਜ਼ ਹਮਹ ਹੀਲਤੇ ਦਰ ਗੁਜ਼ਸ਼ਤ ॥ ਹਲਾਲ ਅਸਤ ਬੁਰਦਨ ਬ ਸ਼ਮਸ਼ੀਰ ਦਸਤ ॥੨੨॥

When all other methods fail, it is proper to hold the sword in hand.22.

Veera you forgot to read my posts, and you said its the man who changes the time, kiiling your arguemwnt and leading to:- "Means Never Fails, Its the Man Who Does." If you think Kirpan is the only answer at the end, it seems like we have tried "everything", why don't now we just raise our swords for our rights and our freedom... Don't be hotheaded, calm down, time changed because we changed it, because we wanted it to be like this, and now its time to put the time back on track not with swords but with something even mightier..

Never, Never, Never Give-up!!

Its ones opinion, we should respect everyones opinion and thoughts. If it bring you more close to Sikhi and Waheguru then its true for you, If you think its bringing you farther apart then its false..

If it helps believe in it, but if it doesn't then disregard it and walk your way out.. and continue..

And if you read carefully some of the topics at sikhsangat, think carefully you will find an answer at the end that "We" are the answer to "Our" problems. If we need something changed we must get a grip of that, instead of hoping that someone else will listen to you or pay attention to our 5-20 men "Jaloos" in nation of millions...

just another bone thrown at sikhs to keep them quiet. they do this once in a while like Manmohan sio's PM position. the master always throws his slaves a bone here and there, but never gives him the meat.

if one sees an air india flight to north india, majority of passengers are sikhs. many western airlines are not letting sikhs wear kirpaans in flights, so it doesn't take a super genius economist like manmohan sio to figure out the financial benefit to indian airliners.

many manmohan sio supporters will take this to be another moral victory when in reality India has shown us it's morality.

Manmohan singh has control of Indian Airlines being PM of the nation, not of the world airlines. If yo are that eager to allow sikhs to wear kirpan allover the world, why don't you rise up, and be one of the decision makers.. if possible bring more with you.. it will only help us..

Its easy to say veera we need freedom around the world, that we want hair cutting incidents to stop, its easy to go out and do a little "jaloose".. which goes all in vain at end. We as sikhs need to rise up and get a grip of things we want changeed for our good.. instead of hoping others to do it for you.

got your PM singh soorma, all i can say is don't waste my time.

you gave your mouse idiom example to me...well i hope you can read gurmukhi because the scanned pages of the book also call sant ji a "bigger pagal(cray man) than budh singh" so you didn't manage to give me an old idiom for that one.

look man. i don't care about your philisophical views about Kushwant, your getting all these posts because you wrote about sikhs deceiving Indira and not doing something better. If you fail to see the error in this then there is no point.

read up on the jeevans and shaheedi of bhai beant singh and bhai satwant singh. you have no right whatsoever to question the actions of these barve sons of the panth. no right whatsoever.

it has been over 20 years "singh soorma" your india still writes that guru tegh bahadur was a dacoit in history books and calls sikhs hindus in the constitution. you talk about the great four...

Hindu's are in power politically, economically, socially, and academically. These four things revolve around each other. If we want to fulfill our demand we must conquer these four ally's.

chalo let's tackle this great theory of yours:

1) politically: Manmohan Sio is the PM of the country. first sikh PM. Tytler was in his cabinet. hasn't magaed to even get a memorial made for 1984 delhi pogrom victims. there goes nunber 1 of your four allies.

2) Economically: Punjab is a economic disaster. The economy of teh country is controlled by the central government. your a learned man and probbaly know that punjab has no right over t's river waters and the electricity pool ignores the demand of power for punjba. chalo, there goes economic power.

3) Socially: The sikh more so the punjabi culture is very dominant in indian society. The social values of sikhs are very well known so much so that the wider hindu culture of bollywood has made it a source of humiliation of teh sikh community. Good luck taking over the social fabric of 900 million hindus with a billion dollar media industry.

4) academically: sikhs have good representation in all professional fields. however, being smart, has never won anyone freedom or rights. look at history. no one claimed to be smarter than the brahmin pandits, but their smartness couldn't stop the mughals from taking their daughters to be sld in afghanistan.

"singh soorma" you've just digged yourself a hole and and now are using the typical indian sikh approach of using "idioms" and other "academic" approaches a la Kushwant singh to impress people to the point taht they will just bow down to your academic "prowess" and accept your argument as a valid option to the accepted struggle by the sikh nation.

good luck.

peace.

There goes another one, looks like you didn't red the topic throughly and just paid attention to bold points. And the 4 allys you showed goes against you, and your post. I am here to encourage that we control those four allys and do good for panth.. If there is traitor controlling those so we should take over... Those times were different. If you are academically strong you can get a proffesional job, stand out in politics and leadthe economy, then see what happens.. a man with good deeds and these 4 allys can bring light to panth again in India, can rule it bytaking over from anti-sikh govt....

If you don't still get it PM me on MSN or AIM.. Just remember its easy to tackle a killer who has no idea then one who's outsmarting you, but still the outsmarter will lose thats the law of nature.. a killer is a killer..

All i want to say again, is Sikhs should rise above the past and get a grip of academics, politics, economy and society.. I said it beofre and will say it again If not now then we will NEVER. you mentioned guru ji being called dacoit in books, whose fault is that, think for a while and you will say its OURS. Why? We were unable to get someone in the board...

All it matters at the end is ONE man...

I just wanted to share my favorite motivational song, Impossible Dream. Recently it got famous because Honda Motors of U.K used it in their commercial, some of you from uk might have seen it. I just wanted to share the song with you, as its very inspiring and motivational:-

Honda's Video of Impossible Dream (Honda Website)

Impossible Dream Audio (Original Version)

To dream the impossible dream

To fight the unbeatable foe

To bear with unbearable sorrow

To run where the brave dare not go to right the unrightable wrong

To love pure and chaste from afar

To try when your arms are too weary

To reach the unreachable star

This is my quest

To follow that star

No matter how hopeless

No matter how far

To fight for the right

Without question or pause

To be willing to march into Hell

For a heavenly cause

And I know if I'll only be true

To this glorious quest

That my heart will lie peaceful and calm

When I'm laid to my rest

And the world will be better for this

That one man, scorned and covered with scars

Still strove with his last ounce of courage

To reach the unreachable star...

Sorry forgot to upload this one...

Below are my favorite pictures:-

The one with Sikh guy on scooter, i have a shirt with that also, little modified.. ppl ask me from where i got it :D & i think the gurudwara picture should be pic of the month...

what is a baba?

someone who prays and preaches the messages of our Gurus?

sounds like a gyani only they don't sit in one place or Gurdwara or commity.

If you are against the babas then you must be against the gyanis.

Randip Singh if you came to preach at a Gurdwara we might have what 100 200 or 300 people there if you advertised a lot.

when a gyani or baba of high avastha is coming we have much much more sangat than you and your friends could ever convince to come to the Gurdwara.

and last but not least, are you Amritdhari?

let me ask you another way: have you given your head to the Guru?

Baba, praying and preaching is a mis interpretation. BABA originally means and meant from back then was a person whose beared is white and is older. It was a word used to respectly call them.. As per Guru Nanak Dev Ji, they were old, there beared was white when they were preaching and people started calling them Baba, thats whay by gurdas ji wrote:- "Fir BABA Geya Baghdad Hu"

Also, I just remembered that there is or was also a discussion at SikhNet, Heres the link:-

Suleman Da Bhoot..

Piari Sadh Sangat Ji,

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

This is not a story, it is a factual account of the deliverance from a 1000 year damnation of a high ranking Muslim cleric by the name of 'Suleman'. The deliverer was Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji, Rahra Sahib.

I am in possession of a copy of this tape which contains a detailed account of the whole encounter. The tape was recorded in the presence of Sant Ji but no verbal interaction between 'Suleman' and Sant Ji is recorded.

For the non-believer, particularly those that do not recognise the existence of the Brahm Giani (and experience tells me there are many!), this tape and the whole account will mean nothing.

It is unclear how the boy came to be possessed by 'Suleman' but the grave urination theory is compatible with common knowledge.

My recollection of the contents of the tape is that 'Suleman', although a well respected cleric of the time, often engaged in issuing 'thabiths' to those that came to him for help in matters of grave urgency.

When 'Suleman' died and reached the court of the 'Dhram Raaj' he was informed of his wrong doing and sentenced accordingly. He would wander the Earth in spirit form for a 1000 years. At the end of this period a Heavenly 'hasti' in the name of 'Isher Singh' would come unto the Earth and bear him release from his incarceration. These are the words 'Suleman' actually used to describe his encounter with the 'Dharam Raaj'.

On the tape, 'Suleman' is asked what religion he would prefer to take birth in. He is heard to reply, 'I want to be born into a Sikh family'. When asked why, he says, 'only in your Sikhi do you have access to a 'murshadh' who under the command of God is the supreme deliverer'. 'Murshadh' is an Urdu word meaning 'spiritual guide'.

In this statement of course, 'Suleman' was referring to the Puran Brahm Giani, which in his particular case was Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji Maharaj.

In my understanding, the tape was made in the UK. Sant Ji visited the UK often, where they would hold divans that, as I recall had an unsurpassed Heavenly quality. Sant Ji often stayed at the residence of a childless Gursikh couple in the Midlands, UK. I believe it was in this family where 'Suleman' was eventually re-born with the Grace of Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji.

The tape is fascinating. 'Suleman' says that he had taken the pavitar dharshan of Guru Nanak Sahib Ji during his physical life. On the tape, he sings a beautiful ballad in reverence to Maharaj Ji. I personally believe that as a result of his encounter with Guru Ji, it was only fitting that one of Maharaj's beloved Saints would eventually deliver 'Suleman' from his incarceration.

I hope this helps in your understanding.

"Brahm Giani ko khoje Mahesur, Nanak Brahm Giani aap Parmesur" - Sukhmani Sahib Ji.

The heavenly dieties are in search of the Brahm Giani, Nanak says the Brahm Giani is in fact the Lord himself.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

Surinderpal Singh.

answer me this bro .. if "forgiving" is ur way of life.. why did our gurus raise the sword and punished those that were doing injustice..

i DONT think i need to give you examples!

dhan dhan sri guru hargobind saahib ji .. miri-piri de maalak!

Time changes, guru ji's times were different and so are ours. If kirpan is the only answer then its been years howmany i think 90-100yrs and thousands of sikhs have been killed, betrayed, why don't we all get together and kill everyone who hates us or whos "Anti-Sikh"... sounds good... Why go to school when we can do anything using kirpan, why go to work when kirpan will serve as a way for money, why??

Just remember we are Sikhs, its our job to learn not to stick with the past, thats why we are called sikhs, the learners. If after all these killings, we haven't learned anything then when will we... If not now then we will never.

Whatever you say, but heres what i wanted to say before, "When all means fail, Its righteous to pickup the sword."

Heres my answer to that as a sikh, all means never fail, its the you who fails, if you fail once try again, and again, and again, but never giveup, trying will eventually pay off... Suppose you wanted to get education but you failed its not educations fault that you failed its yours.. and you should try better next time, if not then sit home in shame... that also sounds good... or just get kirpan or gun walk to the teacher and tell her/him to pass you all the times.. this actually sounds better..

Now concluding, We need to rise above the theory of kirpan. We need to control all four ally's:- Academics, Society, Poltics, & Economy. That was past, now its present, learn how to live in present and carve your and the panths furture instead of making it revolve it around what happened.

Its our choice now... Past or Present??

I know but the soldier part is not that if one kills you should "kill" him/her also. You can kill your enemy in many ways, you can be a soldier in many ways it just doen't has to be the one with gun...

A soldier is a soldier, you can kill your enemy using the above listed four ally's also..

And if you know the tuk, present it... or just mention the translation or any hints...

Killing Enemy in Sikh doesn't means KILL HIM/HER. It means kill their ego for you, etc.. Its us who take things literally that Killing Enemy means shoot him/her... :D

Kill their ego for you??

Thanks for showing us the light mate, I can't believe us Singhs were lost all along.

A good one... should we list it in Joke of the Day...

QUOTE

In order to kill a mouse, (she) distroyed the whole house.

which if you're a little educated and able to think outside the box, means to distroy someone less powerful. In this sentence K.Singh meant that Indra, being PM of India, a lady in power, more power then Sant Ji, she distroyed the whole Harmandir Sahib Complex to bring Sant Ji to "shaheedi". Its a world famous very old "Idiom" from Alexander's time...

I would close this thread by advising every member of SikhSangat to grow-up, think before you 'pop', otherwise just keep you mouth shut, and yes think outside of the box, especially..

You're being naive if you think Khuswant Singh used the mouse idiom without malice intentions.

Using such idioms for Santji is insulting to any Sikh. Besides, he's called Santji other names before, and also in this novel, so don't think it's just an innocent idiom.

It's easy to preach peace and diplomacy sitting in ivory towers. You have not understood the gravity of presecution Sikhs have had to suffer.

Here we go again.. (not really) just read the topic again, and again, and again, until you get something out of it...

It's easy to preach peace and diplomacy sitting in ivory towers. You have not understood the gravity of presecution Sikhs have had to suffer.

The above quoted sentence tells me you didn't read the whole thread and just wanted to stuck your leg in.. That line about ivory tower was written without thinking, as it came from mind, without thoughts, with the flow of anger..

If i want to i can continue, but am a sikh (Its just that line is so stupid to say in this thread), and hope you think before you write, i hope you learn about consequences or in other terms a possible reply, before you say or write something.. May waheguru grant you naam..

Fateh!!

Good stuff Papi. Join the bandwagon with the derawalas. No problem. I didn't take literal translations. I related and took the deeper message. If teaching Gurbani is kirat then why was Guru Nanak doing farming? As for what I am, Guru Nanak knows what I am. If you think i am bad and mean. Safe! If you think I am nice and cool! Safe! If you think I am lost and a fool! Still Safe! It is all safe with me. No worries. All good. Respect for Papi.

This is what i was trying to explain to you papi, "Where there is forgiveness, there is God Himself."

I would suggest go, because you should be socially active. Go to prom with good means, with your parents permission, have fun, but be careful don't do anything Stupid..

Does England has HB-1 or HB-2? Cause lot of people migrate to US on basis of these visas? See if they do then apply on those basis or try applying in US.. who knows you might get lucky :TH:

Alrite heard enuff of u'r <admin-profanity filter activated>..do whatever you feel like doing :TH: ..

You think it was <admin-cut> then why did you take part in it?? Remember people who are bad see everything is bad..

man i never said i would kill. would you stop with the kiling stuff. emi

i'm done here man, enough arguing, wasting my time

"What a Man, Who Changes his Words."

I thought you did learn something, but still nothing went in you, i hope if not me someone else will be able to ..

I know but the soldier part is not that if one kills you should "kill" him/her also. You can kill your enemy in many ways, you can be a soldier in many ways it just doen't has to be the one with gun...

A soldier is a soldier, you can kill your enemy using the above listed four ally's also..

And if you know the tuk, present it... or just mention the translation or any hints...

Killing Enemy in Sikh doesn't means KILL HIM/HER. It means kill their ego for you, etc.. Its us who take things literally that Killing Enemy means shoot him/her... :D

Heres one more:-

PrIdw jo qY mwrin mukIAW iqn@w n mwry GuMim ] AwpnVY Gir jweIAY pYr iqn@w dy cuMim ]7]

Hope it helps..

so by your definition, all our shaeeds dies in vain.

one can kick me spit on me i'll forgive them, buh when they go towards my guru and my sangat, i will not stand by and i will not forgive.

For my guru and for my sangat i will do the same, but killing no, I will make them pay by other means, and will also leave it on waheguru to punish him/her... But i won't play GOD..