T_Singh

Veer/Bhain Agiaan Andhera With all due respect to your post and a little summary of orgs which I had mentioned. I totally understand what you have stated in your post that certain individuals are not working together, or are criticisng other, etc. Although I agree with you with the fact we should support groups which are active and ofcourse we should however, as you have mentioned in regards to groups not working together. When one group does a press realease or an event, another will slate the group not just on internet or to Sikh/Punjabis; but also to non-sikhs MPs etc. This is where we as a community look dis-organised and as mentioned earlier giving mix signals etc. Hence the idea of an emergancy committee where all will be invited to work together in a crucial time of the panth have ONE voice; if however whatever the reason the person cannot stand to be in a room with another individual or be part of it. Then fine, at least the person has been asked but themselves rejected. Also Veer/Bhainjee the idea was to get individuals from these organisations who are most active, well spoken and good writing skills to come together for the emergancy committee; with all due respect to the elders of the organisation I certainly do not think it would be many of the elders possibly some; and in reality it is the some of the elders that have the problems with other elders, maybe the naujawans from these orgs could work together... If the ALL the elders can not stand together for our panth then possiby it should be an emergancy committee done by active naujawans. In-put is good, lets stick to thinking about going forward put differences aside and put a cease fire on every thing else

If we could possibly be in much contact with our MPs in regards to many issues, but again they need to be finally channeled through a voice rather than MPs tending to say we get mix signals from the Sikh community. If an active org took on an issue which naujawans could get together to compile a report (i.e. Racist attacks from wider community) or a report to Scotland Yard in re: Other community orgs targetting Sikh women and vunerable males as a mission, this could be done through surviellence and again compiled as report to be presented. Assisting Sikh VCOs (Voluntary community orgs) to shape and assit them in funding to get our youth of Streets/Gangs (i.e instead of the Ideas of others orgs how to tackle gang violence we can shape our own youth)Bringing the issue of Sikhs in Pakistan being targetted to MPs doors... These are just the top off my head...

Veer Gagandip Singh, Please do keep the sangath updated of this meeting and which other organisations had been approached so that we can know who is on-board. The idea which we had was that, it would be best to get the most active, good speaking and writing Singh/Singhni from each SIkh representative body on board for the emergency committee then to dedicate at least a year, to attempt to get rid of the clutter which is causing so much divide amongst our beautiful path. Sometime I have seen that their has been many issue's that get left under the carpet or completely ignored by some of our organisations which represent the Sikhs (With all due respect to them too) i.e. Sikhs in Pakistan how would we have felt if we had been there. UK Sikh do need to bring this forward. The Afghani Sikhs are very respected and a Religous community too, however they havent fully opened up to main stream UK Sikhs. This could be infact because that they are used to being a close knit group and not trusting anybody (I feel we could have done more as a community during their time of emigrating). There are many issue which we as a community tend to not tackle; however we have to get out of our old ways, and not expect to leave the next person to deal with it. Issue's like Babbu Maan which I had seen so many post in regards to the topic are pointless. Lets pick up a book, learn history, politics, Sikh history, Abhiaas, Keertan and be active in shaping our communnity. You can also PM me.

With so much going against the Sikh Panth (clashes with Punjab Police, Sikhs being killed), Ragi Darshan issue, Muslim-Sikh issue in UK, Mistaken Identity by the wider community, media protraying a Sikh joining the BNP, hell bent gianis, justice of the widows of 84 Massacre, restoration of heritage and gold of Harmander Sahib, most importantly to unify us (ekta) etc. A few of us have been thinking that an emergency committee is needed and should be created to commit and dedicate at least a year to recitfy issues and begin to start rectify others whilst being in constant communitcation with the sangath and communicating with wider organsations and government. It should not be just one organisation doing this. An emergency committee inviting a member of all other orgs to work together instead of against each other to rectify or to atleast start to recitfy all these issue that are going against us. This emergency committee should be the voice of ekta of UK sikhs (as it should have a member of active org on board) which can present their opinions or voice to the Akaal Takhat Sahib (instead of having different voices being presented through different channels and different opinions being raised) which leads to confusion delay and nothing being done. UK active orgs which I can think of at present: DDT, Nishkam, BSSF, Sikh Federation, BOSS, AKJ, Dal Khalsa, BSCF Possibly their could be more please list if you can think. They all be approached inviting a member to be on the emergency committe board Some of these orgs may over-lap and may have individuals that may not see eye to eye, however the invitation will be open to all and they all need to put their feelings aside for the sake of the panth. This emergency committee will have nothing to do or affliated with one jathebandi rather an to attempt to put pressure on govt that all Sikh groups have come together in a emergency group to assit for you to listen and take us seriously. Please let me know of your thoughts and speak to organisations that you may belong to.

1. One of the few reason we cover our hear is because historically when one shows respect or believe that they are in the presence of God, they will cover their head. i.e. Jews will cover their head when going to the synagouge; Chirstain used to do this practice and Muslims too when they would pray (Orthodx Greek chirstains still cover and grow their hair). Another example with history can be seen from the biblical story of when Moses spoke to God on the moutain the first thing God had said to Moses that 'you are on holy ground take off your shoes and cover your head' From here one can see that historically believing that you are in the pressence of God, communities would cover their head. Now for a Sikh we believe this with full faith, we believe that we are always in the pressence of God hence One of the reason we cover our beautiful Kes. I will let others continue with other reasons. 2. Muslims do believe in demons, Devil etc. However they believe that there has been on 'on-going' war between the Devil (who is an Angel the fallen Angel) and God for a very long time. This doesnt make sense to me; God is the Almighty, the creator of all and the destroyer of all. If Akaal Purkh and 'Devil' was in this so called war and it really was going on; Vaaheguroo could destory the 'fallen angel in a blink of an eye' because no one can be more powerful than God itself. In Sikhi yes but they are all in accordance with Gods creation not against him in a war. i.e. look at the story of Suleman the Ghost; about mukhti and the chaursai lakh joons etc. I'll let you dig on some homework here... 3. We're not really concerned about how the world ends, more about if were doing our abhiaas, being a good Gursikh to go home in Sachkhand (not some heaven) Sackhand is above heaven, where God resides and only a selected few will get their. Were not scared of death infact when one takes amrith they have accepted death already so the world ending is not one of our main concerns because had it ended tomorrow and we have taken amrith and lived by gursikh asools they we have nothing to worry about. 4. I haved read some snippets although can not remember from the top of my head. However let my answer of number three be repeated here. My sincere aplogies for not giving you a full answer here. Although I Hope it has been some help. Let me assure you here, that with all due respect to Abrihamic fatiths, nothing is more beautiful and infact more truth than Sikhi. When you will get older you will see that they are just carbon copies of each other and they put each other down and also full of many untruths. Again let me say I'm trying to say this with the most respect as much as I can. I do not want to slate another faith as being a Sikh I can not do that. But I do not want our youth who are still young and have much learning to do start to research other faiths before reading Sikhi and realising the power of satguru. Please take time to read Sikhi, before you begin to dwell on others. I have to go to sleep. Apologies if I have offended anyone.

After hearing how Sikhs are getting treated maybe we should join the protest. Would Sikh Federation or anyother Organistion join with this organistion in a collabrative effort. I have been urged by the vice chariman to do a joint effort rather than just Christians. If both Sikhs/Christains do something together it could get the voice heard for both of the communities... Dear all, We are holding a protest on the 19th December 2009 to campaing for Equal Rights and Parity of Opportunity, an end to persecution and justice and compenastion for victims of religious intolerance in Pakistan. We are seeking partnesrhip groups from all faiths to support our campaign and aware of the significnat persecution of Sikh minorities in Pakistan. We beleive a collaboration could be of great benefit to both our communities and would like to hear from you. Only recently the City of Gojra (near Faisalabad) was razed to the ground and 9 people killed when religious fanatics attacked their city. The City of Sumbrial had a similar fate without deaths. Perpetrators of crime have not been brought to justice and the inhabitants of these cities are still in fear of their live and threatened daily. The list of atrocities is ever increasing.... Please follow this link to learn more about our group : http://britishpakist...n.blogspot.com/ This one explains about our protest: http://britishpakist.../good-news.html If you could broadcast this protest through any of your media activities - or if you would like to collaborate with us please advise Kind regards Wilson Chowdhry Vice Chairman of the BPCA

I was just about to put this on Sikh Sangat as a new topic when I read this topic. This is very upsetting and something needs to be done maybe if we attend below and sign the petition that will be a start. I havent really seen our major leaders or organisations doing too much in regards to this. The Vice Chairman has pleaded to me that please Sikhs attend lets do a joint effort. Maybe we should please see below: ------------------------------------------ Dear all, We are holding a protest on the 19th December 2009 to campaing for Equal Rights and Parity of Opportunity, an end to persecution and justice and compenastion for victims of religious intolerance in Pakistan. We are seeking partnesrhip groups from all faiths to support our campaign and aware of the significnat persecution of Sikh minorities in Pakistan. We beleive a collaboration could be of great benefit to both our communities and would like to hear from you. Only recently the City of Gojra (near Faisalabad) was razed to the ground and 9 people killed when religious fanatics attacked their city. The City of Sumbrial had a similar fate without deaths. Perpetrators of crime have not been brought to justice and the inhabitants of these cities are still in fear of their live and threatened daily. The list of atrocities is ever increasing.... Please follow this link to learn more about our group : http://britishpakistanichristian.blogspot.com/ This one explains about our protest: http://britishpakistanichristian.blogspot.com/2009/09/good-news.html If you could broadcast this protest through any of your media activities - or if you would like to collaborate with us please advise Kind regards Wilson Chowdhry Vice Chairman of the BPCA

I have been reading some replies on here regarding this topic. It is my personal beliefe that if Bhai Ranjeet Singh did wear a kalgi he should not have and looking at the video he IS letting members of the sangath bow down to him, which is completely against the basic teachings of gurmat (A Singh/Singhni greet each other with gurus fateh) Whether it is a sant or a moorakh like me I personally believe we should not wear a kalgi (even on wedding days) as we regard, and the sangath have called Guru Godind Singh Jee Kalgi-walyia out of love. On the subject of Sants; it goes without saying that at present time, there is only a handful of true sants; there is only a handful of true gurmukhs-gursikhs. A true sant would be a great gursikh like, Baba Jarnail Singh; he would NOT allow anyone to bow to him in the pressence of Guru Jee, or like Baba Harnam Singh who followed everything in according to Sikh principles. A true sant would not even take or want such a title of sant due to their humility and gurus teaching - that ALL is Gursikh Bhai/Bhain. One should approach each other with the title of Bhai. (for elder/wiser/high spritual Jeevan Gurmuukhs - Bhai Sahib/Baba Jee is acceotable) Who else could be greater than Shaheed Baba Deep Singh Jee, yet out of respect we have the title Baba Jee for him. The Four Sahibzade all have the title Baba. Even at present there have been great gurmukhs who live up to the title of Sant, but always have been called Bhai Sahib or just Bhai i.e. Bhai Jeevan Singh, Bhai Anokh Singh (bhai sahib was very spiritual) I am not anti-sant I have much piaar for Baba Harnam Singh/Baba Jarnail Singh (as you can see that they did not care about such a title/did not even want that title and lived and breathed Sikhi till their end) They are great inspiration for someone like me. But I think that a true sant would not care for that title, and everyone should be just they way Guru Gobind Singh Jee left us with, all Bhai/Bhains Brothers/Sisters in one big family and thats what we should be calling each other regardles of his high status (if they have a high spritual status Bhai Sahib/Baba Jee should be fine as we have seen with our own great gurmukhs from the past) Hope this did not offend anyone. Guru-Fateh