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Many Thanks for the images 'Shivaji' - very much appreciated - welcome to Sikhsangat.com ! Freed

I don't know if this is the right place to ask but does anyone have any images of Shiva or other Indic Gods with beards ? I have been looking for images with beards - is there any reason or tradition as to why most are depicted without beards ? Most images of Shiva follow this pattern ; This shows a Trident with Shiva as 'Ardhanari' - half man half woman (A bronze from the Chola period 1000-1100 (South India)) *From the collection of the Cleveland Museum of Art, Ohio. The only image I have been able to find is this Bronze Mask of Lord Shiva , discovered during the reign of M. Ranjit Singh by General Court at Peshawar in 1834. It dates from the 5th century and is now in the collection of the Bibliotheque nationale Paris , having been given to the French King by General Allard. Lord Shiva is shown with a full beard. * taken from Maharaja Ranjit Singh, Lord of The Five Rivers - Jean Marie Lafont - OUP 2002 Does anyone have any other images of Shiva with a beard ? I would be really grateful if you could post them Many Thanks Freed

Gurfateh ! The simple answer here is that traditionally a 'Palki' is for transporting Guru Sahib respectfully from one place to another. A full size Manja (Bed) is used for Sukhasan - and for Prakash Guru Sahib is 'Braajmaan' placed on a Manji Sahib - small low cot/bed. This is still maintained at Darbar Sahib. There is no 'Hindu' / ritualistic / or other kind of reason - it is plain Darbari Rasm / Royal custom that is universal to all Royalty - If you look at the Queen of England - She arrives in a Golden Coach - (Palki) - Her arrival is heralded by Trumpets (Narsingha) - She sits on a throne (Manji) with attendants always present (Chaur Sahib and Granthi) All her subjects bow to her and no one turns their back on her (Matha Tek - Dandot) - they walk backwards to show respect. Above her head there is a Baldaquin - a rich canopy (Chandoa). There are set times for audience - outside of these times she retires to her private quarters, where she may give private audience. (This is like Prakash - Prakash in the Sheesh Mahal -and then Sukhasan) The Darbar of Guru Sahib is a Royal Darbar therefore you have the markers of Royalty - The Nagara- royal drum, The Narsingha - Royal Trumpet . Royal Musicians - Raagis. Even the Architecture of Darbar Sahib is Royal, akin to a Palace - with an area for Public audience , for private audience (Sheesh mahal and the upper floor Pavilion) and a place to retire (Kotha Sahib). It's all about respect and Royal Protocol - the level of 'display' depends on the situation - for example when the Queen goes hunting - protocol is still maintained but at a less formal level - So there is no Canopy etc - but at a formal occasion like the State opening of Parliament there is full protocol and all traditions are maintained - Trumpets, coaches, regalia and crowns. THe queen is welcomed and seated on a throne higher than everyone else and everyone faces her and no one especially 'Black Rod' turns their back on her - and No one leaves until she has finished her speech, no one leaves before she leaves - the same as Hukumnama and Sukhasan). All this is true of Guru Sahib, the level of Darbari Rasm is dependent on the situation but bare minimum is 'Carried on Head with Romallay and Chaur Sahib'. Guru Sahib is the King of Kings and Darbar Sahib is their Darbar - in no way am I saying the Queen is on the same level as Guru Sahib - I am just giving the reason for the 'Darbari Rasm'. A Sikh bows their head only to Guru Sahib and a Sikh only recognises the Darbar of Guru Sahib. Freed

These following images have a Punjabi Theme A funeral procession - note the flags and band - this would suggest the funeral of an Elder - who had lived a long life and left behind many great-grand children - in Punjabi called 'Sohne di Pauri charna' - 'having ascended the Golden Ladder' - A time to celebrate and not mourn, as they had been blessed with such a long fruitful life. I believe this is a scene from the Legend of 'Sohni Mahival' - you can see Sohni crossing the river using a clay pot A court scene - with an English Judge Pehlwaan - wrestlers A Pehlwaan wrestler with a 'Shamla' hanging from his turban and a 'Kentha' around his neck The Akhara Vices and Addictions The Stereotype of the Punjabi is that he is of 'Moti Akal' and fond of a drink - in other words a 'bit thick ,slow witted and an alcoholic' - these next images are interesting as they highlight some of these traits - I don't know if they are intended to be humorous but I think they are ! ( apologies if any offence taken - but you can see that 'Nasha' and 'Amlies' and the related behaviour are not a new phenomenon!) Sharaabies - the perils of too much drink and the related 'misbehaviour' ( an insight into the roots and an indictment of the casual violence and spousal abuse that plagues Punjabi Society) Addicts and addiction - Amalies and Posties a 'Mujrah' - dancing performance Indic Themes a lithograph depicting a triumphant Durga riding a tiger escorted by Hanuman holding a flag -- I have included this image as it gives the name of the printer of the lithograph, in Amritsar. Also the flag is very interesting - it is very similar to the one in the lithograph of Darbar Sahib, posted above earlier. These last two images are extremely interesting - while it is not clear who all the individuals are - I think these may be 'propagandist' or at least trying to - to use the vernacular - 'Big Up' certain individuals and agendas The first shows Sir Donald Friell McLeod, Governor of the Punjab, surrounded by admiring Sikh elders - note how he is seated on a throne with a Chaur and angels or devte with garlands,circling his 'haloed' head - an attempt to use Indic themes to show his postion - real or imagined. This image could be seen as even more controversial - here you can see the Ten Guru Sahiban depicted - as well as Maharaja Ranjit Singh and his family. You also see Langar being made and served - You can also see 'Ragra' being performed. However the painter has also shown Sir Donald - seated on a throne. Directly under the Guru Sahiban you see what appears to be Sodhi Bhan Singh and family - decendents of Prithi Chand (Brother of Guru Arjan) known as 'The Minas'. ( Though I could be wrong) The whole picture seems to be an attempt to show the real or imagined influence of these individuals. This is what makes the picture very interesting - you can see similar attempts to show the influence or prestige of individuals in illuminated manuscripts of The Guru Granth Sahib - namely the Sodhi Bhan Singh manuscript in the N. Delhi Museum. It shows the power of imagery - and the way it can be used to bolster postion and elevate an indivdual's 'prestige' or attempt to provide legitimacy to a 'postion' or 'lineage'. Extremely interesting - please post your views ! I think I'll stop there - enjoy the pictures - and please post your views - they are greatly appreciated ! Ranjit Singh 'Freed'

GurFateh ! Here is a wonderful and interesting collection of images from the Wellcome Collection. The scope of the Wellcome Collection is vast and wide ranging covering almost everything. The images I am posting cover Sikh, Punjabi and Indic themes - they are watercolours, gouache paintings and hand tinted Lithographs and woodcuts from the Late 19th Century. The hand painted woodcuts and lithographs are particularly interesting as they were mass produced and sold as souvenirs in places like Amritsar for your average person to buy - perhaps the first time inexpensive art was available to the masses - a forerunner of the inexpensive calenders and prints that pilgrims and tourists buy today - I think every Sikh household must have one of those pictures of Darbar Sahib which is a central framed picture with a hinged frame on each side with a painting of Guru Nanak on one side and Guru Gobind Singh on the other ! Here are the pictures Images of the Guru Sahiban Guru Nanak Guru Gobind Singh Darbar Sahib - hand painted lithographs - Note the Nishan Sahibs - they show a number of different symbols Maharaja Ranjit Singh Akali Phoola Singh Sikh People Battle scenes Sikhs fight against the British Sikhs in the British Army

Desert Diwan - Mesopotamia WW1 The Memorial erected by The 35th Sikhs battalion in 1894 - located in the Darshani Deori Amritsar. It reads - "Eh chakar paltan number 35 Sikh ne tareek 16 (?) April 1894 mutaabak 5 Vasaakh san 1952 Nu Siri Darbar Sahib Amritsar da darshan karan di ar Ishnaan karan di yaadgar vich Ardass karaiya " The Saragarhi Memorial Sikhs in France WW1 Pipe Band Second World War - A Sikh Soldier escorting prisoners of War 1941 Memorial to Ranjit Singh - Sikh Regiment - Kranji , Singapore And to finish another favourite image - Sikh boys boxing , (Army Cadets ?) from the 1940s. Note how the boy on the right is wearing a proper 'Reb' Kacchera Hope you enjoyed the pictures Ranjit Singh 'Freed'

Gurfateh Old Soldiers As the famous line from an old army ballad says "Old soldiers never die, they just fade away." - here is a collection of some of my favourite military images. Most military images are very stiff and formal, staged photographs in regimental formations - my personal favourites are the informal shots which show the day to day life of a soldier. This is perhaps one of my favourite images, from perhaps the late 19th century , it shows a Sikh soldier in 'Civvies' - off duty - but still wearing his regimental Pagri Badge (a chakar and Bhagauti). He wears a large tall dastar - the 10 yard army 'safa'. It shows how his beard is tied very clearly - tied upwards and it appears without the use of any 'Fixo' - today it is more common for the beard to be tied 'downwards' as in it is tucked under rather than upwards. I love the 'cheeky' smile and the salute - a great image. These next two images reflect the fascination many have with our Kesh and Dastar - It shows Harnam Singh of the 4th Sikh also in his 'civvy' clothes before and after washing and drying his hair.It is from the Desert campaign of the First World War in Kantara, on the east side of the Suez canal in 1914. More images of 'ablutions' Time for 'Tiffin' Veterans at the Delhi Durbar Wonderfully staged images of Sikh Gunners A Felice Beato image of some of the first recruits to the British Army Gallipoli - WW1 The trenches Mountain Battery Jerusalem

I am not a 'Mona Hater' nor do I want to get into the 'Who can do what ' at the Gurdwara debate - but as 'Namastang' has said, it's all about the 'message' especially in Western Countries . In the early 1980s (1981 I think). The US army stopped Sikhs from wearing Turbans. Sikhs had previously been allowed to serve wearing Turbans - In 1950, President Truman had allowed an American Sikh conscripted in the Army to retain his hair unshaven. The US army amended its dress code in June 1974 to allow beards and native religious head dress. The 1981 law outlawed turbans and skull caps etc. The American Sikhs - especially the so called "Gora" Sikhs started a 'Morcha' or campaign to reverse the law. There was a high level law suit - when it came to giving evidence all was going well for the Sikhs until the US authorities produced the 'Pardhans' of several Gurdwaras - All Monas - and said if it is not important for the guardians/leaders of your 'Temples' to wear turbans , why should we allow them in the Army ( or words to that effect) The case crumbled - I don't have any references for this - I will try to look for them - But I think you get my point.

I was right about the 'Peht Pooja' wasn't I Balait Bhai Sahib ? I think this is the one you're looking for ; http://www.redveg.com 95 Dean Street, Soho, London, W1V 5RB Tube * Tottenham Court Road 0871 971 3554 :lol:

Just to avoid any confusion - and any kitchen disasters ! here is a conversion table for tsp (Teaspoon) and Tbsp (tablespoon) for the N Americans 1/5 teaspoon = 1 ml 1 teaspoon = 5 ml 1 tablespoon = 15 ml 1 fluid oz. = 30 ml 1/5 cup = 50 ml 1 cup = 240 ml 2 cups (1 pint) = 470 ml Once again hope that helps ! Freed

Gurfateh ! Dear Khalsa 123, I have a vague memory from some of your posts that you are from Canada - apologies if you are not ! - so I guess you don't have Tescos or Holland & Barrett ( England is very 'Veggie friendly' - unlike much of N America) Here are a few sites with recipes that might be of some use to you ( and of course to other Veggie members of SS - Peht Pooja ( 'worship of the stomach' seems to be a favourite pastime of some members - yes you know who you are - all those posts about Mr Singh's Pizza ! :lol: ) I am guessing you will be avoiding eggs so have included vegan sites as well http://www.happycow.net/vegetarian-recipes.html http://www.vegguide.org/location/view.html...amp;new_query=1 http://www.veg.ca/ http://www.veganforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11 Many 'western' vegetarians will eat free range eggs - so many recipes include eggs - Vegan recipes do not have eggs - Many posts on SS ask about how to bake cakes without eggs - here is a good site which has recipes which substitute eggs for bananas ,soy milk etc - It is a UK site so the measurements are in UK standard 'Tablespoons' not N American 'Cups' - but I'm sure you'll figure that out or at least your Mom/ Mum will ! http://www.vegansociety.com/html/food/cate...ery/eggfree.php Hope that is of some use. Enjoy! Freed

Gufateh ! Here is another version especially for children - I posted it before - in this thread : http://www.sikhsangat.com/content/Gursikhi...Sikhi-For-Kids/ Enjoy Freed

Gurfateh ! Last weekend I went to Elveden - the country estate once owned by Maharajah Duleep Singh - It is a tradition in our house that all visiting relatives get a tour of London and Cambridge (including Elveden) - it is probably the reason why I have such an interest in Punjabi History, Museums, paintings and the like (Thanks Dad !). I have always wanted to see the interior of Elveden Hall - the closest I have ever got is looking through the windows and the gardens (as you know Punjabis never take any notice of 'Private Property' 'No Entry' and 'enter at own risk' signs !) Here are a collection of Photographs that show Elveden Hall as it was when Duleep Singh bought it , his renovations and the later additions. The photographs also show the famous paintings that hung in Elveden Hall - a constant reminder of more grander times and past glories. The Maharajah bought Elveden Hall ( located in Suffolk near Thetford) in 1864 - for £105,000 - the money raised by a loan from the India Office at 4 percent interest. It was a sprawling sporting estate of some 17 thousand acres -it rivalled nearby Sandringham (The Queens estate) as one of the best places to hunt and shoot - Duleep Singh was rated fourth best shot in Britain. The original building was quite plain - Duleep Singh practically rebuilt it in Italian Renaissance style - but the inside was based on the Mughal Style of the Lahore Fort. The Drawing room was styled after the Shish Mahal - the Hall and main rooms decorated with Indo Persian / Mughal arches and pilasters. The famous Dussehra painting of Ranjit Singh's Darbar hung in the Hall and a copy of Winterhalter's portrait of Duleep Singh in the Dining Room. Elveden was sold by Duleep Singh's trustees after his death in 1894 for £159,000 to the Lord of Iveagh - the Guinness Family (yes - as in the 'Black Stuff') they still own the estate. **Black and White photographs from The Collection of the Thetford Library. Elveden Hall in 1863 The renovations made by Duleep Singh Duleep Singh Standing in the portico of Elveden Hall Elveden Hall 1877, Lord Frederick Fitz-roy, Lord Leicester, Duke of Athol, Lord Dacre, Prince of Wales, Lord Rendlesham, Lord Holmesdale, Lord Balfour of Burleigh, Maharajah, Lord Ripon, Lord Westbury, Sir R. Beauchamp, Capt. Goldingham The Interiors The Main Hall - showing the famous August Schoefft 'Dussehra' painting of Ranjit Singh's Darbar on the right and a portrait of Duleep Singh by Capt. Goldingham on the left. Both paintings are now in the Princess Bamba Collection in the Sikh Gallery of Lahore fort the Schoefft and Goldingham paintings The Dining Room - with a copy of the F X Winterhalter's portrait of Duleep Singh above the fireplace the Winterhalter painting The sitting room of Redneck Farm on the Elveden Estate - you can see the August Schoefft portrait of Maharaja Sher Singh - seated on the Golden Throne - hanging on the right as well as a portrait of Ranjit Singh. the Schoefft painting - now also in the Princess Bamba Collection The hall The drawing room The dining room Elveden Hall as it is today - the Dome and extension were added by Lord Iveagh The Gravestones of Maharaja Duleep Singh his wife and son at St Andrews church on the Elveden Estate as they are today Hope you enjoyed the post Ranjit Singh 'Freed'

Gurfateh ! Some pictures and a short clip of Snatam Kaur at Sri Guru Singh Sabha , Southall - 9 Sept 2007 I didn't manage to get a picture when her eyes were open ! Click Link to View ; http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...74&hl=en-GB Enjoy! Ranjit Singh 'Freed'

Gufateh ! Dear 'Bundha' Ji, Is this the painting you are referring to ? This painting by Devender Singh is part of a series of paintings that form a well known 'Comic' type book published by the Dharam Prachaar Committee of the SGPC and the Punjab and Sind Bank in 1977 - "Nikkian Jindan Vadda Saaka" - a comic book style telling of 'Saka Sirhind' for children The series of around 40 paintings tell the events of Saka Sirhind - the comic was a favourite of mine and helped me learn to read punjabi as a kid. The Paintings may not be to everyone's taste but they are very uplifting images - 2 of my favourites are these ; The Sahibzadas enter the court of Wazir Khan - they are made to walk through a small door - but they enter feet first - thereby not bowing to oppression , literally and metaphorically The Sahibzadas 'Gaj Ke Fateh Bulaai' The Shahidi painting is heart rending and not very uplifting when seen without the context of the other paintings.- but I guess that is the point - underlying Sarbans Daani Guru Gobind Singh Ji's statement of 'Chaar Muey ton kia hua - Jeevat Kai Hazar' I get a similar feeling when I see Satwinder Bitti's videos on Saka Sirhind and Saka Chamkaur This image of 'Dekh Ke Undith' , the Shahidi image of Sahib Baba Jujhaar Singh Ji and the words 'Bijlee payee Liskan Mardi eh - Disdi payee Laash Jujhaar Di Eh' - always bring tears to my eyes. But I think these sort of depictions are important - especially for children - they show how powerful images can be. In the case of Bitti's videos - many may not like them - but the depiction of the exchange between Mata Ji and Guru Gobind Singh using the 'Panj Piarey' to show the voice of Guru Sahib is a very powerful one. Videos Saka Chamkaur http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...54&hl=en-GB Sahibzadey - Exchange between Mata Ji and Guru Sahib http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...30&hl=en-GB I know many may not like such cartoons and comics but I think they they are important for children who are not always interested in or understand Dhadhi Vaars or are too young for books. They spark an interest or get them asking questions which is always a good thing. Whether they get answers to those questions is a whole other discussion !! Hope I haven't rambled on - and there is some point to what I've said Freed

Gurfateh ! Did anyone record Bhai Balbir Singh's Kirtan ? It was gorgeous - even the Granthi Sahib - who usually leaves half way through when his 'duty' is over - stayed behind to listen - so there were 2 Granthi sewadars sitting behind Guru Sahib ! The Kirtan was so beautiful I forgot to record it - A big Benti - if anyone recorded it - Please upload/post it ! Many Thanks ! Freed

An Engraving from 1831 A woodcut from 1874 Ishnan 1903 Baba Atal Tower late 1800s Amritsar schoolboys 1903 "Fakirs" Amritsar 1903 Postcard early 1900s Sri Akal Takht early 1900s http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1102/akaltkt5gshh7.png Birdseye view 1950s - note the clock towers are not white washed.Also the City comes right upto the parkarma - the bazaars back onto the Akal Takht. Today these historic bazaars have been demolished in the Government 'Galiara' project. Inscriptions above the doorways of Sri Darbar Sahib Northern entrance - An expression of gratitude for the blessing from Guru Ram Das to be able to perform sewa of Darbar sahib and a benti for the continued 'BolBala' of the Khalsa , seva by Maharaja Kharakh Singh Kanwar Naunihal Singh and Bhai Sant Singh Giani - dated sambat 1896 (CE 1839) Southern entrance - The first verse from Vaar Sri Bhagauti Ji Ki - Patshahi 10 ( Chandi di Vaar) Main (Western) entrance Mool Mantar - and commemoration of the 'Daya' of 'Sri Maharaj Guru Sahib' in giving the opportunity to perform sewa of Darbar Sahib to Ranjit Singh - dated Sambat 1887 (CE 1830) Enjoy the pictures ! Gurfateh ! Ranjit Singh 'Freed'

Gurfateh ! Here are some more Showing the Gothic clock tower built by the British after demolishing the Bunga that stood there - later this tower was demolished to make the Clock Tower entrances we see today The Kar Sewa of 1923 The visit of the Prince of Wales in 1905 Raagis with Taanti saaj - 1903 Raagis The view in 1903 from the Baba Atal Tower The view from the upper storey of the Darbar Sahib 1903

Gurfateh ! Here are a selection ; from CE 1865 from CE 1870 From CE 1875 These are all from around CE 1903 Akalis on the Causeway that leads to the Darbar Sahib Akalis standing under the Darshani Deori A Nihang Baba seated in the courtyard between the Darbar Sahib and The Akal Takht These pictures show the Darbar Sahib without the 'Jangley' or 'dividers' which I believe were brought in around the 1950s/1960s. Hopefully one of these is the picture you are looking for - If not give a more detailed description of the picture and I'll see if I can find it for you. Gurfateh! Ranjit Singh 'Freed'

Gurfateh ! Getting back to the original topic as 'Menu Ke Patha' has requested - here is another image of the painting. 'BulldozerWarga$ingh' asked where it was from - the painting is from the collection of the Government Museum and Art Gallery , Chandigarh. It dates from the late 19th century and it's style is that of the 'Punjab plains'. The painting depicts Guru Nanak and Guru Gobind Singh seated and flanked by Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Ganesh and Devi. In the centre you see Shiva's bull Nandi.

Gurfateh ! Sant ji left their physical body on 26 August 1975 , Wolverhampton UK Here are some Pictures Arrival at Heathrow Airport 1975 2 days before Sant Ji left their physical body Aakhri Darshan The 'Jal Parwa' in the Satluj River - near Bagaur Sahib Gurdwara Punjab Some short video clips Sant Isher Singh Ji Rara Sahib Wale Hitchin, UK 1974 - 'Me Jan Tera' - Includes the glorious 'tune' (sorry I don't know the correct term) Sant Ji would play before kirtan - It is Hypnotic - it was my first introduction to Sikhi. http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...67&hl=en-GB Dharna - "Maia Vich(i) Udasi" - Sant Isher Singh Ji Rara Sahib Vale - Luton, Bedfordshire UK - 27 June 1975 http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...61&hl=en-GB I was at this Divan - if you look carefully you can see me at the front ( not very clear but my Mum recognises my rumaal covered Joora! ) - I was very little but I still remember it - That divan was a momumental moment in my life. I learned the names of the Guru Sahiban from the Guru Ustotar, Sant Ji would sing after Anand Sahib - it is still one of my favourites - (as kids we would call it the 'Dhan Hai' Shabad ) Gurfateh Ranjit Singh 'Freed'

Gurfateh ! As Jassa Singh Ji has said many sources say Guru Nanak wore 'Seli Topi' and it was Guru Hargobind Sahib who said - it is time to put the seli topi in the Toshekhana (treasury) as I will now wear a Turban and 2 swords , Miri and Piri - thereby starting the tradition of wearing the Turban. This view is not accepted by all sections of the Sikh community and is seen as controversial, many argue against the Guru Sahib's wearing Topis. The Sodhi Bans - the family of Guru Ram Das Ji (through the line of Prithi Chand, eldest son of Guru Ram Das and brother of Guru Arjan Sahib ) - claim to have the Seli Topi of Guru Nanak Sahib as well as other relics such as the Pothi and Mala of Guru Nanak Sahib. These relics are kept at Pothimala in GurHarsahai (Dist Ferozepur Punjab) - They are put on public display on the first day of Bikrami Samvat every year. (Indian New Year) - The seli topi is worn by the current 'Gaddi Nashin' or heir on that day. Here are some pictures of the Seli topi in the possession of the Sodhis This picture shows the Seli topi encased in another protective topi This picture shows the Seli topi - made of silk - which the Sodhis claim is the original worn by Guru Nanak The Pothi and Mala - the Sodhis claim belonged to Guru Nanak Jaswant Singh Sodhi - wearing the 'seli topi' All this is controversial and is uncomfortable for some Sikhs. I am just posting the pictures for the sangat here to see - It is up to you to make up your own minds. - I have no particular agenda or view which I am trying to push . The Pothimala Building dates from AD1745 and has some great examples of Wall & ceiling murals and woodwork which depict Sikh and Hindu themes as well as themes from Punjabi culture such as Heer Ranjha and Mirza Bhul Chuk Maaf Ranjit Singh 'Freed'

Sikhs in Britain -'Sada Gravesend' Gurfateh ! I have finally got hold of a copy of Peter Bance's 'Sikhs in Britain' - after an epic struggle due mainly to the vagaries of the Royal Mail ! It is a great book - chock full of wonderful photographs http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sikhs-Britain-150-...8455&sr=8-1 One of my favourites is this one An adorable picture of young boys making 'roti' in 1950s Liverpool - on a coal range. The picture reminded me of my Dad's Tai and Taiya - they came to England in around 1950. They were old school 'salt of the earth' pure hearted people. They couldn't read or write (Punjabi or English) and spoke only a few words of English. They were the most kind and generous people ever - they worked hard and sent money back to the family- nothing was ever too much trouble for them - every one was welcome in their home and even though they didn't have much they shared what they had willingly. Anyway getting back to the picture - My Dad's Tai always used the Coal fire to make 'rotian' - I remember going to their house and her cooking Saag (in a frying pan ) - with at least 2 pats of Anchor butter used in the cooking - then another 1 to drizzle on top and another 1 used to butter the roti - those Punjabis must of kept the New Zealand economy afloat with the amount of Anchor Butter they ate ! She always cooked the 'Makki diyan Rotian' on the coal fire in the lounge ! - you were special if you got to eat straight out of the frying pan !! My Dad's Tai felt totally at home in England - they lived in Gravesend - which she always called 'Sada Gravesend' (our Gravesend) My dad lived in Gravesend - Cutmore Street - for a while when he first came to UK in 1960 and worked in the Paper Mill. Gravesend was always a 'Sunny' place to me, we would always go in the Summer - for the famous kabbadi 'Tournament' - Tai's house would be full of people and we would go to the seaside - one time at the seaside - on one of those famous Punjabi impromptu mass outings - 30 people crammed into 3 cars ! - I remember going with my dad to the Ice crean Van and him asking for 30 ice creams - and the icecream man looked at us like we were from outer space - you mean you want 30 ice creams? - then he saw the very colourful crowd of Punjabi Mums Dads and screaming Kids behind us ! At the risk of sounding like an old timer - if you tell kids today about those times - they don't believe you People had outside toilets usually at the end of the garden , a lot of people had no bathrooms - I remember going to see relatives in Leicester and going to 'Public baths' for a bath where the lady measured out the bath water ! - they had gas lamps in their house -a bit like Bunsen burners - which my uncle would turn on full to make what he called a 'Flame thrower' ! No one had central heating - only coal fires or Gas if you were posh ! - I remember being really scared of the soot covered 'Coal Man' who used to make deliveries and would hide from him. I know I sound like a grandad but I remember when we got our first Fridge and when we swapped our Black and white TV for a Colour one. My dad is full of stories of how he shared a house in Southall - and they had shifts for the beds and floors - first back from the night shift got a bed - when he went to work the day shift came back to a warm bed . Anyway if you want more nostalgia buy the book - for more about 'Sada Gravesend' - watch the film I've posted below - If you're from Kent you'll recognise loads of faces. It tells the story of Pier Road in Gravesend the official blurb : Synopsis The story of how a typical street (Pier Road, Gravesend, Kent) in an ordinary English town gradually changed from being completely white to predominantly Indian. Told though individual stories, these personal experiences of immigration mirror some of the changes that have taken place in British society during the last half-century. As the new arrivals moved in and established themselves, local residents in turn welcomed, feared and accepted them. At the same time, different generations of Indians strived to assimilate, integrate and ultimately establish their own identity. It's a great film - about 50 mins long - it's called 'Sikh Street' and was shown on Channel 4 in 2002 Click to watch http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...28&hl=en-GB "I remember when it was all fields 'round here'" - 'It wasn't like that when I were a Lad'' Thank you and goodnight ! Freed

Gurfateh 'Gurbar Akal' Bhai Sahib ! Here are the uncropped pictures as promised : August Schoefft's famous 'Dussehra' painting of Ranjit Singh's Darbar A mural from the 'Temple of Bairagis' - Ram Tatwali Dist. Hoshiaarpur M. Ranjit Singh's 'Sowaaree' - cast in silver by 'Garrards of London' A gilded panel from the entrances of the Baba Atal Tower A 'Marwar' (Rajasthani) painting of Guru Gobind Singh's journey to Deccan dated around 1770-80 A folio from Sri Dasm Granth - Jaap Sahib from c1870 The darbar of Ranjit Singh c1830 M. Sher Singh seated in the Shish Mahal Lahore Fort - painted by August Schoeftt 1841 M.Ranjit Singh Listens to Gurbani with the Darbar Sahib in the Background - painted by A. Schoefft 1841 Watercolours of William Carpenter 1854 Sardar of the Kanhaiya Misal - S. Jai Singh - pahari painting by Nainsukh c 1775 'Indian Scenes and Characters' by A Soltykoff 1859 - depicting the Raj of Maharaja Sher Singh Enjoy ! Freed

Dear Dancing Warrior ji, Here is an interesting picture, it shows Dessay Singh, in around 1870 - he was in the employ of the Nizam of Hyderabad as a Police officer. Macauliffe (1909) writes that there were 12 hundred Sikh troops in the Nizam's army and over 300 police officers. Dessay Singh wears a small dumalla with Tora and Chand - but he also wears the clothes of a man of some standing together with a 'kentha' necklace and what appears to me as an earring. His beard also appears to have been rolled and tied. What do you think, is it an earring ? **Important note - I am in no way disrespecting Rehat Maryada - all organisations agree that piercings are not allowed and no Sikh is allowed to have the blessing of amrit whilst wearing piercings . I am just discussing individuals and pictures from history. As we all know adherence to rehat is a very personal matter.** *Picture from Warrior Saints (Madra & Singh 1999)