UKGupt Kaur

The True Guru is the whole part. The stress is put on the True Guru. Who is the true Guru?

Exactly and yet we are busy with other bani besides Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Only Bani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is "Gurbani". The above is a prevert logic fabricated by sex offender kala afghana. Bani of all gurus is Gurbani. Those who do not agree to that should form a separate sect just like nirankaris. radhasoamis. Guru Gobind Singh jee gave "GURUSHIP" to Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee therefore Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee IS "GURBANI" from now on. We metha thek ONLY to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee as its now our "Guru" [Guru = Bani and Bani = Guru.] This is the whole bases of your arguement, but what don't you get. Your have rejected what you proclaim as your base. You reject Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji's Bani and in doing so you have also rejected Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji's Hukam of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is Guru. You can't pick a choose what you want of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji's. So the last 6 pages or so of your rant hold no merit. You could present any Bani from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and it don't matter because where does it say Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is the Guru. The fact you add Kaur to your name comes from Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji. Tell me where in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji it says to add Kaur. Tell me where it say to say Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh. Inder singh, have you attempted vichaar on Gurbani "ikv sicAwrw hoeIAY ikv kUVY qutY pwil ] kiv sachiaaraa hoeeai kiv koorrai thuttai paal || So how can you become truthful? And how can the veil of illusion be torn away?http://www.sikhitoth....asp?ShabadID=1

If true, this is terrible news. "UK Border Force" program which is playing now on SKY2 and does show real life cases of students with dodgy letters from dodgy colleges.

Thanks for bringing this information to readers attention. Its shocking. The pardhan probably does not even know this has been going on!. Hope all will be sorted out this Sunday.

I have spoken to the pardhan of Woolwich Gurdwara 1 calderwood st a min ago. He has confirmed that there is no such langar ban on anyone of any race or religion. He has asked British Sikh Fedaration to either call him or meet him at the Gurdwara to discuss this claim. I sincerely hope that a public retraction together with an apology will be given to Woolwich Gurdwara of 1 calderwood Street.

I can tell you that Woolwich Gurdwara (1 calderwood st) committee has done no such thing.

I have spoken to someone who attends woolwich gurdwara calderwood st woolwich and been told that he saw around 20 students having langar and have not heard of any such ban.!

I hope you do not mean woolwich Gurdwara at 1 calderwood street.!! I have seen for myself non-sikhs having regular langar there and have not heard of a ban of any sorts. Please respond here or by pm and I will call the pardhan immediately.

Exactly and yet we are busy with other bani besides Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Only Bani in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is "Gurbani". The above is a prevert logic fabricated by sex offender kala afghana. Bani of all gurus is Gurbani. Those who do not agree to that should form a separate sect just like nirankaris. radhasoamis. Guru Gobind Singh jee gave "GURUSHIP" to Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee therefore Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee IS "GURBANI" from now on. We metha thek ONLY to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee as its now our "Guru" [Guru = Bani and Bani = Guru.] bwxI gurU gurU hY bwxI ivic bwxI AMimRqu swry ] baanee guroo guroo hai baanee vich baanee a(n)mrith saarae || The Word, the Bani is Guru, and Guru is the Bani. Within the Bani, the Ambrosial Nectar is contained. guru bwxI khY syvku jnu mwnY prqiK gurU insqwry ]5] gur baanee kehai saevak jan maanai parathakh guroo nisathaarae ||5|| If His humble servant believes, and acts according to the Words of the Guru's Bani, then the Guru, in person, emancipates him. ||5|| Though we may read from Bhai Gurdas jee vaarans or Bachitar natak etc , this does not mean that these writtings equal to Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee (Gurbani ie Shabad Guru). The tenth Nanak sanctioned Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee to be our final Guru and therefore we know that to realise Naam (ie God) is to realise God through Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Guru jee gave us Gurbani in the form of Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee as means to directly and easily realise Naam. AKrI nwmu AKrI swlwh ] akharee naam akharee saalaah || From the Word, comes the Naam; from the Word, comes Your Praise. AKrI igAwnu gIq gux gwh ] akharee giaan geeth gun gaah || From the Word, comes spiritual wisdom, singing the Songs of Your Glory. AKrI ilKxu bolxu bwix ] akharee likhan bolan baan || From the Word, come the written and spoken words and hymns. http://sikhitothemax...asp?ShabadID=19 Inder singh has been trying to say otherwise. He is therefore a nindhak going against the instructions that Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee is our final Guru (Shabad Guru/Gurbani). Guru Nanak Dev jee early on made this fact known to us that Shabad Guru is our Guru. If I am not mistaken, Inder singh is also implying that one can only receive naam by 5 piareys. He is basically saying that naam is not everyones right. What he does not know is that naam is already in all of us. Naam is basically synonymous to Shabad Guru, Gurbani, essence and power of God, atma/jyot, hukam, etc etc. jyqw kIqw qyqw nwau ] jaethaa keethaa thaethaa naao || The created universe is the manifestation of Your Name. ivxu nwvY nwhI ko Qwau ] vin naavai naahee ko thhaao || Without Your Name, there is no place at all.http://sikhitothemax...asp?ShabadID=19 Naam is not only in us its also all around us and Naam is basically the Sargun and Nirgun form of God. gur prswdI vyKu qU hir mMdru qyrY nwil ] gur parasaadhee vaekh thoo har ma(n)dhar thaerai naal || By Guru's Grace, see that the Temple of the Lord is within you. hir mMdru sbdy KojIAY hir nwmo lyhu sm@wil ]1] har ma(n)dhar sabadhae khojeeai har naamo laehu samhaal ||1|| The Temple of the Lord is found through the Word of the Shabad; contemplate the Lord's Name. ||1|| mn myry sbid rpY rMgu hoie ] man maerae sabadh rapai ra(n)g hoe || O my mind, be joyfully attuned to the Shabad. scI Bgiq scw hir mMdru pRgtI swcI soie ]1] rhwau ] sachee bhagath sachaa har ma(n)dhar pragattee saachee soe ||1|| rehaao || True is devotional worship, and True is the Temple of the Lord; True is His Manifest Glory. ||1||Pause|| hir mMdru eyhu srIru hY igAwin rqin prgtu hoie ] har ma(n)dhar eaehu sareer hai giaan rathan paragatt hoe || This body is the Temple of the Lord, in which the jewel of spiritual wisdom is revealed. mnmuK mUlu n jwxnI mwxis hir mMdru n hoie ]2] manamukh mool n jaananee maanas har ma(n)dhar n hoe ||2|| The self-willed manmukhs do not know anything at all; they do not believe that the Lord's Temple is within. ||2||http://sikhitothemax...p?ShabadID=4885 If I am not mistaken, Inder Singh is also implying that Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee is unable to provide us with certain things like certain powers (shakti) and therefore demeaning the power of Gurbani. He is implying that Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee's Guru Mat is not good enough or powerful enough that we need writtings like charitar pakhian to provide the missing link to make us "khalsa (pure)" ! Though my intitial comment yesterday may have confused some, Inder singh knew exactly what it was all about hence his reply made not long after. My observations of inder singh are gathered from reading his posts from various sikh sites and over several months.

OH my oh dear!! Is that all you know? Then why to waste time here.Follow whatever you like. Nobody is forcing you to follow sikh protocols. Inder, you STILL have not given valid answers to many of my questions. Khalsaland? do you even know what khalsa means and how we can be "khalsa"? Why are you guys demeaning the power of Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee? You cannot even obey one simple command of Guru jee and want khalsa land!!!

Yet again avoiding giving valid replies.!! Btw you are also assuming that I reject all of the writtings of Guru Gobind singh jee. I would not metha thek to bhai gurdas jee's vaaran nor would I metha thek to charitar pakhian, hakiyats, bhachitar nathak etc etc. Would you? So naam will be found through charitar pakyhian, hakiyats etc? Hmmm!!! I wonder why Guru Gobind Singh jee the tenth nanak even BOTHERED to give Guruship to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee!! Like I said previously, one reply is enough for you. Its people like you ,sobha kaur, gurinder singh mann , inder singh + co. DILUTING and distorting Guru Nanak Dev jee's teaching. YOU are the actual NINDHAKS as per the first post of Mehtabs. I will add this found from sikhitothemax comment page : jo gur kw isK AKwey, Aqy Sbd gRMQ swihb jI dw gurU krky nw mMny, AwpxI mwieAw dy hMkwr ivc glqwn rhy jo gur kaa sikh akhaaeae athae shabadh gra(n)thh saahib jee dhaa guroo karakae naa ma(n)nae aapanee maaeiaa dhae ha(n)kaar vich galathaan rehae One who claims to be a Sikh of the Guru, but does not accept the Guru Granth Sahib as Guru; they will forever remain deluded by their egotistical attachment to Maayaa. Rehatnama Bhai Chaupaa Singh Jee P/S: I would not metha thek to "oral history". So stop trying to turn us into muslims.

OH my oh dear!!

Yet again avoiding giving valid replies.!! Btw you are also assuming that I reject all of the writtings of Guru Gobind singh jee. I would not metha thek to bhai gurdas jee's vaaran nor would I metha thek to charitar pakhian, hakiyats, bhachitar nathak etc etc. Would you? So naam will be found through charitar pakyhian, hakiyats etc? Hmmm!!! I wonder why Guru Gobind Singh jee the tenth nanak even BOTHERED to give Guruship to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee!! Like I said previously, one reply is enough for you. Its people like you ,sobha kaur, gurinder singh mann , inder singh + co. DILUTING and distorting Guru Nanak Dev jee's teaching. YOU are the actual NINDHAKS as per the first post of Mehtabs.

InderSingh, Respect to Manvir Singh. Like I said earlier, it's OK for Manvir Singh and Inder Singh to say that Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave Gurgaddi to Guru Granth Sahib Ji. But it's not possible for UKGuptKaur to say so. Oh dear! I still have to read a valid and logical reply from you. Btw which gurbani was bhai Gurdas talking about here "ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਨਿਤਿ ਗਾਇ ਸੁਣੰਦੇ । kurabaanee tinhaan gurasikhaan gurabaanee niti gaai sunanday| I am sacrifice unto those Gursikhs who sing and listen to Gurbani daily." Was it charitar pakhian and hakiyats , bachitar nathak etc like in the muslim sunnah? Are we muslims? How about this: "ਗੁਰਪਰਚੈ ਗੁਰ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਗਿਆਨਿ ਧਿਆਨਿ ਸਿਮਰਣਿ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ । guraparachai gur jaaneeai giaani dhiaani simarani gurabaanee|" Well Inder?

I still have to read a valid and logical reply from you. Btw which gurbani was bhai Gurdas talking about here "ਕੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਤਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾਂ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਨਿਤਿ ਗਾਇ ਸੁਣੰਦੇ । kurabaanee tinhaan gurasikhaan gurabaanee niti gaai sunanday| I am sacrifice unto those Gursikhs who sing and listen to Gurbani daily." Was it charitar pakhian and hakiyats , bachitar nathak etc like in the muslim sunnah? Are we muslims? How about this: "ਗੁਰਪਰਚੈ ਗੁਰ ਜਾਣੀਐ ਗਿਆਨਿ ਧਿਆਨਿ ਸਿਮਰਣਿ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ । guraparachai gur jaaneeai giaani dhiaani simarani gurabaanee|" ". Resting Guru-ship in the Guru Granth-Guru Panth This Bir was then taken to Sri Hazoor Sahib, NandeR, in 1708 by Guru Gobind Singh jee. I asked you why you believe in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and you quoted Manvir Singh's blog post again. So, why do you believe what Manvir Singh says? Is he a Guru? (No disrespect to Manvir Singh.) Because he writes well and saves me from typing. Sorry, but I don't think that's an answer. I asked why you think Manvir Singh is an authority, and you replied (effectively) that he wrote what you would have written except to avoid typing it. OK, let's just suppose you yourself had typed the paragraph. On what basis can you claim it to be true? Let me note here that ukguptkaur has skipped over 3 points above (need for external validation, epistemology, and 10th Guru's words). Moderators: Please do NOT close this thread. Because all that was needed was one reply to you.

before you write such derogatory language for Dasam granth sahib you need to realize rules of this site in respect of dasam granth sahib. You are not on a kalaafghana site There you go again with kala afghana! derogatory? First its pervert now derogatory? I wrote derogatory for you and not kala afghna .Read my post before replying. You need to use a civilized language for a scripture that is revered by millions. What was derogatory? explain.

Explain then. Also answer this "Tell me inder, do you metha thek to Charittro Pakhyan and Hakayats along with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee in a Gurdwara?."

before you write such derogatory language for Dasam granth sahib you need to realize rules of this site in respect of dasam granth sahib. You are not on a kalaafghana site There you go again with kala afghana! derogatory? First its pervert now derogatory? Tell me inder, do you metha thek to Charittro Pakhyan and Hakayats along with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee in a Gurdwara?.

Did you not understand the shabad? Its from Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee.

". Resting Guru-ship in the Guru Granth-Guru Panth This Bir was then taken to Sri Hazoor Sahib, NandeR, in 1708 by Guru Gobind Singh jee. I asked you why you believe in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and you quoted Manvir Singh's blog post again. So, why do you believe what Manvir Singh says? Is he a Guru? (No disrespect to Manvir Singh.) Because he writes well and saves me from typing.

Read the above again Inder and tell me who is the real pervert and the real nindhak. "ਵਾਹੁ ਵਾਹੁ ਬਾਣੀ ਸਚੁ ਹੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਲਧੀ ਭਾਲਿ ॥ : Vaahu vaahu baanee sach hai guramukh ladhhee bhaal ||: Waaho! Waaho! is the Bani of the True Word. Searching, those who have become Gurmukhs have found it (sggs 514)." This True word is Gurbani and can only be found in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Quote "The terms Shabad, Naam and Bani (pronounced Baanee) are essentially synonymous and refer to the Divine Essence — Divine Word, Divine Name or Mantra. As indicated in the Gurbani (Sri Guru Granth Sahib, SGGS), the Transcendental Spirit perpetually expresses through the Shabad (Naam or Bani). Therefore, the Shabad is God and God is the Shabad. The Guru and God are also indicated to be one and the same. Hence, the Shabad is the Guru and the Guru is the Shabad." This definition of "Guru bani/Gurbani" will not be found in Charittro Pakhyan and Hakayats. Nor would I metha thek to them. quote "During the "Sidh Gosati" (sggs 938), the Sidhas posed many questions to Baabaa Nanak. Three of these inquiries were: "Who is your Guru? How do you become a disciple? Where does this Shabad reside?" Baabaa Nanak responded as follows: ਸਬਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਧੁਨਿ ਚੇਲਾ ॥: Shabad Guru surti dhun chelaa ||: The Shabad is my Guru. By focusing consciousness on this Shabad, I become a disciple (sggs 943)."

". Resting Guru-ship in the Guru Granth-Guru Panth This Bir was then taken to Sri Hazoor Sahib, NandeR, in 1708 by Guru Gobind Singh jee. On 20th October, a day before Guru Gobind Singh jee physically passed away, he asked Bhai Daya Singh jee to bring Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee and do Parkaash (ceremonial opening). Guru jee placed a cocunut and 5 coins in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee and bowed his head before the Shabad Guru and announced that from now on the eternal Guru will be Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee. Guru jee told the Sangat: “With the directive of the Almighty, initiated is the Panth. All the Sikhs are decreed to acknowledge Granth as Guru. Believing in Khalsa, epitomises the Guru as corporeal. Sikhs desirous to achieve me, (may) search in them.”" ??? BTW when you go to Gurdwara, do you metha thek to Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee or Bachittar Natak?

This exposes you. It does not restrict bani to SGGS only. Can you show me? How many gurus sikhs had . Answer that. Do you belive in sikh rehat maryada? expose ? expose for posting Gurbani - you know the one Guruship was given to by Guru jee.! Someone does not agree with you and you label them kala afghana? Posting Gurbani is distorting Sikhee? (btw there is no 'ism' in sikhee) Is this distorting Sikhee? -> " Resting Guru-ship in the Guru Granth-Guru Panth This Bir was then taken to Sri Hazoor Sahib, NandeR, in 1708 by Guru Gobind Singh jee. On 20th October, a day before Guru Gobind Singh jee physically passed away, he asked Bhai Daya Singh jee to bring Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee and do Parkaash (ceremonial opening). Guru jee placed a cocunut and 5 coins in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee and bowed his head before the Shabad Guru and announced that from now on the eternal Guru will be Sri Guru Granth Sahib jee. Guru jee told the Sangat: “With the directive of the Almighty, initiated is the Panth. All the Sikhs are decreed to acknowledge Granth as Guru. Believing in Khalsa, epitomises the Guru as corporeal. Sikhs desirous to achieve me, (may) search in them.”"