Sarbloh

The guys from the sraboh punjab website and sas are the most chardi kala of the higiest order.

They doing stuff against all the odds. I belive what they say. U dont cos your scared of the truth.

I have made efforts i have passed on info to more than 200+ girls on hi5 on whats going on.

I also this week found ou that k2k is occuring in Malaysa.

Here we go again!

Right my 2 cents worth! Fabricating stories, exaggerating situations, inflating numbers, misleading information is not parchaar. I will be accused of a personal attack here but creating an ID ‘sikh youth uk’ does not authenticate your anti-muslim and antagonistic view. SAS sole role seems to be influencing or convincing young Sikhs into thinking that being Sikh means accepting Muslims are the enemy. These are not the signs of Chardi Kala but of narrow-mindedness.

Glad I got that of my chest!

Who Is Jaswinder Singh Ubhi? :D

Some links to media reports on Ubhi.

http://www.panthic.org/news/124/ARTICLE/2893/2006-11-15.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1515544,00.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/coventr...ire/4442166.stm

http://onlinenews.warwickshire.police.uk/a...118diwaliupdate

This one paragraph letter from Vedanti is not worth the paper its printed on. This "matta" has not got the approval of the Panj Takht Jathedars, has not been agreed by the Akal Takht Panj Pyare and is in complete contradiction to Rehit Maryada documentation.

For this to be a valid prerequiste for marriage then everyone will have to take amrit before an anand karaj. Even those who are amritdhari because there is no evidence for then being Sikh. Being Sikh is not identified by your passport LOL its the roop and jeevan Guru Gobind Singh has precribed. Read the Rehit Maryada document. If the passport has Singh or Kaur but the bride or groom trim their hair, doesn’t that go against the Akal Takht Rehit Maryada aswell??

The Akal Takht Maryada of agreeing and passing resolutions is not a one man decision. The letter would have refered to the document or article within the Rehit Maryada where it has been decided that Singh/Kaur on a driving license or passport is required, or it will refer to the day and time when the 5 Jathedars met and the agreed outcomes from that meeting.

I am somewhat baffled at the contradictions that this document poses. In my view this is incorrectly being presented as a Hukumnama . There is no mention of the approval of the Sri Akal Takht Punj Pyary or Punj Takht Jathedars which would be written in the text of the Hukumnama. Referring back to other official Hukumnamas (check the Gursikhi Rehat section of this forum) you tend to see a date and confirmation of consensus by the Punj Pyaray or Punj Jathedars. In addition, as Akash has stated above, there is no reference to the specific section within the Akal Takht Rehat Maryada, regarding acceptance of a Sikh is by simply changing ones personal documents (such as driving licence or passport) to reflect Singh/Kaur in their name. The Akal Takht Rehat Maryada would need to be revised in order to support this.

I am in contact with some Singhs in Amritsar, who are unaware about the contents of this document. They will speak to Bhai Satnam Singh (one of the Punj Pyaray of Sri Akal Takht Sahib) in order to gain clarification. I hope to have some feedback later today.

you cant change people on the inside for them they should want to do that for themselves............i find too many people use that excuse of ''its better to be a sikh on the inside than to look like one on the outside'' they dont realise its bloody hard to be a proper sikh on the inside whereas i find its easier to look like one on the outside, i.e. keeping hair, or is it just me....

A big problem in my eyes is the low valuation given to the Anand Karaj “ceremony” by Sikhs themselves. There are evolutionary stages in a Sikh life complemented by a small number of ceremonies. The naam-karan (giving the worldly first Name), the amrit-sanchar, the anand-karaj (marriage), the antam-sanskar (death). For a Gursikh the Anand Karaj should go beyond a worldy a marriage vow, it is not just about procreating and producing the next generation.

In this time of diminishing appreciation for Sikh teachings, the Gurdwara and Maryada has been left open for abuse by “Sikhs” themselves. Prabhandaks and Priests are after the extra income stream associasted with the wedding industry and are not focusing on the real value of a Sikh’s lifestyle. Just looking back 30 years or so ago, you would find more value was given to Sikh ceremonies and Sikh beliefs. Over a fairly rapid period of time the adoption of modernity and non-Gurmat values have taken over the community resulting in a dilution of Sikh values. Sikh maryada is being crafted to make life easier for our devolving community, where once Amrit was staunchly preached; today the topic is very delicately handled so as not to offend people. Anand Karajs are seen by many as a ritualistic act performed for the sake of it without any consideration or thought being given to the betterment of our own lives or society in general.

Many of these people who think they are born in “Sikh” families drink alcohol, cut their hair, don't believe in God, and may even practice un-religious activities. When they get married they tie big red turbans, grow temporary beards and hold big swords. The men and women decorate themselves and spend thousands of pounds on decorations, but they are failing to decorate themselves in the love for a Gursikhi Jevaan.

How many people on this forum actually see the Anand Karaj as the union of the bride human soul with the husband God?! Participating in the laavaa(n) is an exercise of faith. You are thinking about your commitments to Guru Ji and you do parkarma (walk around Guru ji) therefore publicly showing that your life is centered around Guru Ji. If you refuse to learn the akhars of the Gurmukhi alphabet or have no intentions of taking Amrit, do not carry out your nit-nem, do not wish to keep your kesh, do not follow any rehat, do not make any attempt to know who the Sikh Gurus are etc. then participating in the Anand karaj and walking around Guru Jee is a mere ritualistic act driven by cultural and family pressure. I bet the majority of our own community fall in this category.

I do not agree with Sikhi being based on formalities of simply adopting Singh or Kaur as a middle name or signing a piece of paper declaring allegiances to Sikhi. This does not in anyway compensate for a real tangible Gursikhi Jevaan which is our only aim. Many people will simply sign these “contracts” to just have their Anand Karajs performed. Why can’t these Prabhandaks attempt to implement real, life changing, practical commitments such as learn and recite 100 Jap Ji Sahibs within 10 days or wash the dishes at the Guru Ghar for 30 days. These kind of commitments help bring us closer to real life Sikhi not the text book/internet forum Sikhi which we so easily adopt.

Nobody should be forced or emotionally blackmailed to implement Sikhi in to their lifestyle, however Sikhi it is not a "Sunday school" or a verbal commitment, it can only be experienced by living it.

What does the Guru Ji book say about the hair topic, or is it purely from teachings of Guru Gobind Singh Ji?

Not sure what you mean by the Guru Ji book and not sure if you are being sarcastic (?) but as Sikhs we believe the teachings of Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj and Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj to be the same. If you see any contradictions then start learning and reciting Sri Jaap Sahib, Sri Tav Prasaad Swayay and Sri Benti Chaupai Sahib.

Sikhs should keep khesh.

It has been stated that khesh is power. Hmmm.

So what is God trying to tell you when yours falls out in your early 20's?

You are not worthy of a Sikh spirit?

As you can tell I am not very learned, but I am confused. Enlighten me, please.

We need to be comfortable with our Kesh in whatever natural form and whatever natural quantity. The keeping of Kesh in its natural state is regarded as living in harmony with the will of Waheguru, it is a mark of dedication and group consciousness, showing a Sikh's acceptance of God's will. My personal opinion is don’t get too bogged down into any natural hair loss issues as it will only act as a distraction. Just maintain a well balanced lifestyle.

maran munsaaN soori-aa hak hai jo ho-ay mareh parvaano. ||3||

The death of brave heroes is blessed, if it is approved by God. ||3||

naanak kis no baabaa ro-ee-ai baajee hai ih sansaaro.

Nanak: for whom should we mourn, O Baba? This world is merely a play.

(Ang 580)

taken from http://manvirsingh.blogspot.com/2007/08/in...tory.html#links

The Sweetest Revenge

TIME Magazine, Posted Monday, Apr. 27, 1953

Sardar Tara Singh had no cause to love the Moslems. For two bloody centuries his Sikh people had fought them for mastery of the Punjab in northern India, and in those wars, many of his ancestors died martyrs' deaths. One of them, Bhai Mani Singh, fell into the hands of the Great Mogul Aurangzeb, who first chopped off Bhai Mani Singh's fingers, joint by joint, then lopped off his limbs, one by one. Another, Baba Sukha Singh, died under Moslem knives after assassinating a Moslem chieftain who had turned the Sikhs' holy Golden Temple at Amritsar into a brothel.

Under British rule, Sardar Tara Singh and his Sikh compatriots lived in uneasy peace with their Moslem neighbors. But when the British left and India was partitioned, religious violence broke out once more. Five million Sikhs abandoned their ancestral homes in west Pakistan and fled to the East Punjab, and an equal number of Moslems fled westward. Fanatics on both sides organized themselves into bands and killed as many of the fleeing civilians as they could. White-bearded Sardar Tara Singh shook his head over this massacre of the innocent.

"Kill Her!" From one such slaughter Sikh warriors returned to Tara Singh's village of Sunam, now in India, with a seven-year-old Moslem girl. Her name was Hasan Bibi, and she stood tense and terrified among them while they debated what to do with her. "Kill her," advised a Sikh refugee from Pakistan, "just as they slaughtered my children in Lahore." A man of piety disagreed: "Convert her to our holy religion and let her marry a brave Sikh boy when she comes of age."

But Sardar Tara Singh put a protective arm around the girl. "I will treat her in a way which will bring the sweetest revenge upon the wicked Moslems." he said. "I will bring her up as a Moslem, and restore her to her relatives when she grows up. And she will be as pure as the white snows of the Himalayas. That will teach the Moslems that a Sikh is pious in peacetime, just as he is invincible in war."

For six years little Bibi lived in the brick and clay house of Tara Singh, playing with his grandchildren, helping his ailing wife with the chores. Tara Singh himself taught her to read and write and to worship according to the faith of her ancestors. Bibi was the only Moslem among the 5,000 Sikhs of Sunam.

Meanwhile, the unrest in India subsided, and Sardar Tara Singh began his search for Bibi's family. Her father, Fateh Ali, seemed to have disappeared, and Tara Singh, despairing of finding him, requested the Indian government to ask the government of Pakistan to find a suitable Moslem boy to marry her when she reached the legal age of 15. Sardar Tara Singh was prepared to bear the expenses of the wedding and give Bibi a dowry, just as he had done for his own three daughters. Then the word came that Bibi's father was found at last, at work as a shopkeeper in Pakistan.

A Cup of Tea. Last week Tara Singh and Bibi journeyed to a town near the Pakistan border to meet him. Bibi was afraid, for despite her careful Moslem upbringing, she had absorbed some Sikh prejudices. "If I go to a Moslem household," she cried, "I shall have to bear the offensive smell of tobacco and eat beef!" But Tara Singh loaded her with presents and new clothes and reminded her of her duty.

When Fateh Ali arrived, he embraced Tara Singh with tears in his eyes. Then they went to a restaurant to celebrate the occasion with a cup of tea. At the sight of a Sikh and a Moslem sitting down together, a murmuring crowd began to gather outside, and the story of Bibi and her foster father spread quickly among the Hindu villagers.Later, when Bibi and her father had bounced safely off to Pakistan in a jeep and Tara Singh had boarded a train to return home to Sunam, everyone was still talking and arguing over this amazing happening. On the train, one man, who did not recognize Tara Singh, vented his feelings. "A Sikh who repays the wickedness of the Moslems by a generous action like that," he exclaimed, "deserves to be shot." But Sardar Tara Singh only smiled quietly.

Half a world away, aroused Frenchmen still argued the case of Robert and Gerald Finaly. Both boys, sons of Jewish parents, had been baptized as Roman Catholics after their parents died in wartime concentration camps. Earlier this year they were spirited across the Spanish border by zealous Catholics to prevent their being returned, by a court order, to Jewish relatives (TIME, March 16). Moderate-minded Frenchmen hoped that the children could be put in the care of a theologically neutral group until a higher court rules on the appeal of their Catholic foster mother. Meanwhile, the Finaly family addressed a public appeal to the older boy, Robert: "Listen, Robert. Listen with your mind and your heart. Today, April 14, 1953, is your birthday. Now you are twelve years old, already a man, or almost a man . . . Do not listen to those who would make us out an enemy . . . Wherever you are, write us . . .". From across the Pyrenees came not a word.

Ignorantly we Sikhs can be accused of being "idol" worshippers too, because the majority of us pay great deal of homage to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, i.e. perform meaningless rituals, pay empty respect, keep Guru Ji’ saroop wrapped and covered in the best of silk rumallas and all. To the uninformed this looks like Sri Guru Granth Ji Maharaj is being treated like an IDOL by Sikhs, but if that’s all we (Sikhs) are willing to do than we as Sikhs are treating Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj's Saroop as nothing more than an idol, just like an idol of Raama or Krishna.

Forget what Hindu images portray and look what our own relationship with our Guru Ji portrays. Are we just bowing to an idol or are we giving up our lifestyle, our Jevaans to our Guru? Are we implementing Shabad into our lifes?

Anti-Sikh preacher barred from temple

KAREN BURKE - 23 August 2007

A PREACHER has been barred from speaking at a Hindu temple after fears he could disrupt the harmony among faiths in Redbridge.

Members of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, Albert Road, Ilford, held an emergency meeting after they were told a man reputed to hold anti-Sikh views had been booked to speak there.

Sikhs were in communication with the temple throughout Monday, alerting members to the dangers of allowing the preacher to go ahead and members cancelled the booking, due to have taken place on Tuesday from 7pm until 10pm.

Goodmayes ward councillor Satnam Singh said the preacher, who goes by the name of Maharaj (meaning God-like) Tarlochan, had come over from India to tour the UK.

"This guy comes from India from a simple sect," said Cllr Singh.

"He booked the Hindu temple in Albert Road, but the management did not know who this guy was at the time.

"He was in Leicester for a booking last week and the Sikh and Hindu communities got together and contacted the police.

"I have not heard him speak, but he is reputed to be anti-Sikh."

Cllr Singh said a preacher, who voiced the same anti-Sikh views as Tarlochan, was shot by two young men at a gathering outside the area 10 years ago.

Tarlochan uses the dead man's name, Darshan Das - said to be his father - after his own name.

"Tarlochan is seen as divisive and we don't want him disrupting our community relations," added Cllr Singh. "He would walk away but we would carry the can."

Swarn Singh Kandola, general secretary of Sikh group Singh Sabha London East, said: "I am really happy that after all the contact, the Hindu management cancelled it. They should be congratulated."

Raj Chanan, chairman of Vishwa Hindu Parishad in Ilford, said: "I booked him because somebody came to me and said he wanted to book the hall for a spiritual discourse.

"I understand from a number of organisations that this is a disruptive man and he shouldn't preach at the temple because he would cause disharmony.

Event on 21st August in Ilford was canceled.

Event on 22nd August in Oldbury was canceled.

Not sure about event planned for today 24th August in Reading. UPDATE WOULD BE HELPFUL

Event on 25th August in Coventry has been canceled.

Not sure about event planned for Southall on 26th August. UPDATE WOULD BE HELPFUL

Event on 27th August in Leicester is believed to be canceled.

Ilford was canceled.

Jagtar Singh Ji,

It is very encouraging to see an active response from local Prabhandak committees, Sikh councillors and other Sikh organisations regarding the tour of this individual.

What would be even more uplifting is to see these same Prabhandaks, Councillors and Sikh Organisations taking the same active stand against the beadbi of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Saroop within banqueting halls and hotels. Also the same kind of active stand from our leaders against the use of alcohol, meat, tobacco and dance music within Gurdwara complexes would be most appreciated. We don’t need to always wait for an anti panthic cult leader to tour the UK, there are dozens of real life issues going on at the moment where involvement from local Sikh leaders would go a long way.

Question here comes down to :

- does she promote that she is a sikh(whatever you defaniation of sikh)? if no? then why you getting ticked off?

- if maclom, mcleod write books on their level of understanding of sikhi and our sikhs read them then whats wrong with this lady?

- did anyone know if sri singh sahib yogi bhajan took khanda da amrit or not? do some research you be suprised, his background is from udasi, had udasi vidya gurdev. so if he is given singh sahib title by sri akaal takth jathedars, then why you people playing with maryada card?

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...ighlight=bhajan

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...ighlight=bhajan

- if one argues, she didnt took khanda da amrit amrit(whatever your defination of amrit is), i argue back, did bhagats like kabir, ravidas, namdev, baba farid, bhagat pipa, sain, sadhna, gangka papan, raja janak, trilochan, dhanna whose writing we have in sri guru granth sahib and bow down to everyday took khanda da amrit? they took amrit from their gurdev(guru's) and thats exactly what she has done, she is keshadhari, she took guru dikhya from sant delevar singh ji from nirmale samparda.

if sri guru nanak dev ji was here today in physical body, he would shake his head in disappointment looking at the sikh shariavaadis.

Read full sri guru granth sahib along with bhai gurdas ji varan, sri dasam granth sahib, sri sarbloh granth, show me one place where gurus have limited to elite groups(amritdhari) to do parchar. I for one regards gurbani as enteral truth and atal not maryada which was made it to be sri akaal takth maryada in 1935 by man made scholars. Each maryada that people follow- be it taksali, nirmale, udasi, nihangs, tatkh maryadas should be equally weigh based on gurbani first then rehitnamas not other way around.

Those who like to play maryada card in this thread, the fact there are still some major confusion among sikhs on maryada card you playing about, the fact there are still some major dis-agreements among sikhs on sri akaal takth maryada. advise to all of you who want make an issue out of this non issue go on solve those internal issues first instead of bickering that she shouldnt parchar of sikhi despite she is not even claming to be an sikh and but doing parchar of beautiful garden of sikhi planted by sri guru nanak dev ji(10 jots).

Final question to all- imagine if some keshadhari gori who is sikh academic, doing massive but right parchar of gurbani/sikhi along with other mystic traditions of other dharams, which impotent sgpc leaders failed to do every part in punjab and abroad, would you still play this maryada game card trumphet? i can guarantee of those even who have hinduphobia, 110% will support her in this parchar. there is no question about it, i dont need answers, i ll already know it, i want everyone to ponder upon this question and seek the answers within yourself.

At the end of day, who you guys fooling, this has nothing to do maryada, you people are pujari of cham(cham dristh wale/outer apperance) not innner gyan(bhram drist), your attitude will change according to who you see and deal with, just because this excellent parcharik(anandmurti gurma) wears sadhu livaaj adapated by hindu sadhus who got your buttons pushed, had she been keshadhari gori?? this person who created the thread, probably be the first person be all over her- taking pictures/writing articles/making positive threads about it

Like to make a final post by sharing this sakhi of raja janak who is been given "gurmukh" title in gurbani:

Once raja janak had dream that shook him, after waking up since his dream was soo intense that he couldnt figure which is reality? the dream state? or wake state? to solve this riddle, he invites maha rishi, sadhus of india into his darbar to help him with his dubta, no one could help him, its been months, after a while , raja janak condition news reached to this kid name(asthavaka) who was disabled as he walked you could see 8 folds in his body occuring yet he was bhramgyani, he went to darbar to solve raja janak riddle, when he went to the darbar all the hypocrites pandits, rishi were there, started laughing and making fun of his condition, who in the world this disable kid who can hardly walked with 8 folds in his body can solve this highly delimna raja janak going through, at that point - this kid spoke to raja janak- who are these people? raja janak said i call these people to solve my delimna, ashtavak replied, this people who are chamars(cham dristhi wale) who looked at my outer apperance instead of gyan- laughed/mocked this condition, how could they solve this riddle, this people dont have bhram dristi nor they have gyan,, asthavak at that point gave atamik updesh to raja janak, solving his month long delimna and all these hypocrites hung their head in shame.

i think this sakhi, especially part of hypocrisy of pandits/ maha rishi applies to some people on this thread as well.

Namastang,

Read your interesting and enlightening post. I don’t think there is any persistent conspiracies against a “purataan” set of beliefs which you always seem to be defensive about. You obviously have a greater understanding than most of us of methods and theories of Dharam. I agree that there are numerous variations in Dharam and we are all experiencing (and will carry on experiencing) different scenarios in our jeevans which on the surface may lead to the appearance that contradictory guidance is being given.

But shouldn’t we be more streamline in our thinking. i.e. sing from the same hymn sheet? If on one side the Sikh Dharam say to take Amrit and keep Punj Kakaars, then on another side representatives of the same Dharam put across that Amrit and Kakaars are not needed and offer an alternative outlook then all we are going to do is cause even more uncertainty and confusion within our Sangat.

A Sikh radio station or a Gurdwara stage are all platforms which must be responsibly used to promote Sikhi. A Panthic platform should be representative of the Panth as agreed by the Panth. At this stage in time, the only way this works is through Sri Akal Takht Maryada. Whether we personally agree to it or not, for the sake of unity we have to appear to connect under this unifying maryada. We need to remain distinct under this banner and accept the basic guidelines set out irrespective of our differences. If Shabad Guru, Amrit, Punj Kakaars and Khalsa Rehit is a basic agreeing feature under Sri Akal Takht Sahib then as responsible members of our community we must ensure we promote that. The front man/woman nominated by the Sangat as a medium to promote Sikhi, in my view, must be visibly and vocally adherent to Sri Akal Takht Sahib maryada in the least.

I don’t deny that this Bibi Ji has a deep understanding of Sri Jap Ji Sahib. I remember once being blown away by Osho’s (Bhagwan Rajneesh) translations of Sri Jap Ji Sahib. Fact is, that although they are/were fine kathakars they are not representatives of the Khalsa jeevan (the reni-beni), which is what Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj specifically prescribed for us. That’s where I believe we need to be careful.

http://newspostindia.com/report-12314

Indian Sikhs Visiting Lahore Over Gurdwara Row

THURSDAY 23RD OF AUGUST 2007 A delegation of Indian Sikhs is planning a visit here following the takeover of the Bhai Taro Singh Gurdwara by a group that claims it to be part of a Muslim saint's shrine.

The delegation from the Delhi Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee will probe the matter, said the Daily Times quoting reliable sources.

Meanwhile, as the dispute snowballs, the Evacuee Trust Property Board (ETPB) in Lahore has ordered the demolition of 18 shops close to the gurdwara to provide a separate entrance to the shrine of Pir Kaku Shah, a Muslim saint whose tomb lies in the Sikh temple premises.

The Pakistan Sikh Gurdwara Prabhandhak Committee chairman Bishin Singh has said that they would hold a meeting within a week to discuss the issue.

Sohail Butt, the leader of the group occupying the gurdwara, has threatened to resist if the government and Sikhs tried to stop them from entering the shrine.

He said followers of the saint have painted the temple dome green and started offering evening prayers.

They have also started reciting the holy Quran in the shrine on Thursdays. He said the followers had urged the government to allow them to visit the shrine daily, instead of Thursdays only.

The gurdwara is situated near Naulakha Bazaar here and has been maintained by the ETPB.

According to an insider, the occupants took over the gurdwara after a former gatekeeper of the shrine claimed to have received the 'divine' instruction from Pir Kaku Shah. The gatekeeper has since been transferred by ETPB.

Sikhs are a small minority in Pakistan, where a number of shrines belonging to their faith are mainly located in Punjab and the North West Frontier Province (NWFP).

In an editorial this week, the Daily Times sought early official intervention to 'evict hooligans' who it said had 'occupied' the gurdwara.

It urged an early end to the dispute and warned that it could become 'as explosive as Lal Masjid' -- a reference to the military assault on the Islamabad based mosque and seminary complex in which over 100 people were killed.

actually after reading all the comments I have to admit I kind of agree with cyber babbar on this one, why ??? well sukh sagar don't do themselves any favoure (the uk one), they seem to think they can do what they want and associate with who they want too, wheteher or not they fit the definition of sikhi, she isn't saying anything that hasn't been written by the great gursikhs of the past, the real problem is people don't want to educate themeselves or read, rather just listen to mp3s or audio tapes, we should all be khojis of gurbani and not rely on anyone, the problem is that what she might say seem's right, where is it really coming from ??? i don't know but if she truly love's gurbani and sikh why not adopt her real name and accept Gurubani as her Guru ??? people stop being so naive when it come's to these issues, there are plenty of Sikhi related material that sukh sagar could use but no they always like to adopt the new FAD or cool thing....

I do agree with you. The issue mentioned above also stands for the acceptances of members of dehadhari groups (namdharis) who are allowed to perform kirtan on Gurdwara stages. There has to be a high level of responsiblity on who we allow to be visible front men/women within our own platforms.

Good to see some involvement from the local Gurdwara committee took. Perhaps that's why the issue was taken seriously by the Hindu committee.

There are numerous anti-panthic groups/dehdhari groups who openly tour the UK without any resistance, namely Namdharis, Radhosoamis and Nirankaris. Some even perform kirtan and katha openly on Sikh Gurdwara stages. It would be good to see these Committees also take the responsiblity of this, particularly if this is within a Gurdwara itself.

According to ***anti-sikh website not allowed***., Delhi Gurdwra Comittee have stated that the claims are false. As per Delhi Gurdwara Committee, two SIKH factions are fighting for control and one faction called in Goonda reinforcements.

Anyone been to Windosr castle lately? If so was yoi asked to remove your kirpan when you was security checked.

Did the person remove their kirpan to get in?

There are a small number of indoor venues within the leisure and entertainment industry that do not allow you in with a kirpan (if detected). It really depends on the security at the time. Some places seem to have metal detectors but are selective in picking groups of individuals.

Best to contact your local Sikh activist group and get them to liase with the management of the venue. Best contacts tend to be Sikh Federation UK, British Sikh Federation, Sikhs In England, British Sikh Consulate etc or even your local Gurdwara committee.

Gian Dhian Kichh Karam Na Jana

Sar Na Jana Teri

Sabb Tey Vada Satgur Nanak

Jin Kal Rakhi Meri

I know no Gian (Divine Knowledge), Dhian (Meditation) and Karma philosophy (virtuous deeds).

I do not know your true greatness.

But I know one thing that my Satguru (True Guru) Nanak is the Greatest of all,

Who has protected me in this Dark Age (Kalyug).

Sri Guru Granth Sahib (Ang 750)

“Rakhi” (protection) is not in a piece of string that you tie round your wrist. Sabb Tey Vada Satgur Nanak, Jin Kal Rakhi Meri!!

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive...7/21/c8871.html

World Sikh Organization raises Sikh Shrine occupation issue with Pakistan President

OTTAWA, Aug. 21 /CNW Telbec/

- The World Sikh Organization has learned of

the occupation of Gurdwara Bhai Taru Singh at Naulakha Bazaar, Lahore by

certain "hooligans". These individuals have also denied Sikh visitors access

to the Gurdwara Sahib and have apparently defaced the shrine as well.

The situation is of great concern to the Sikh community worldwide.

Pakistan is home to many historical Sikh shrines such as the birthplace of

Guru Nanak Sahib at Nankana Sahib, Punja Sahib at Hassan Abdal and many

others. Thousands of Sikhs come every year to worship at these shrines. The

Evacuee Trust Property Board has been looking after Sikh Shrines in Pakistan

for 60 years now. It is of great importance to the Sikh community worldwide

that Sikh shrines continue to be protected and access is ensured for all those

who come to pay their respects.

The WSO has written to President Musharraf of Pakistan asking him to

intervene and ensure that Gurdwara Bhai Taru Singh be restored to the Sikhs

and the "hooligans" be prevented from re-entering. The WSO trusts that the

Government of Pakistan will move quickly to resolve the situation and thus

help to build an even stronger relationship with the Sikh community worldwide

WSO International President Ram Raghbir Singh Chahal said, "Sikhs accord

respect to all religions, and in turn expect that their religion be respected

and the Sikh Shrines be protected."

For further information: Jasbeer Singh, Media Relations, (780) 457-3333,

Cell. (780) 235-6000, magmaint@hotmail.com; Amanpreet Singh Bal, (905)

567-1795, Cel. (647) 224-0000, asinghbal@gmail.com

after readin all that article thing iswell i STILL don't get it.... how is that making fun outta Sikhs?? I don't even get how its a 'joke'.....someone break it down in SIMPLY terms pleaseee!!!!

The Sardar (Sikh) character is commonly portrayed as an “amusing fool” in mainstream Indian society who is usually the butt of most jokes. The jokes usually focus on the Sardar having a lack of common sense and a rural type personality. The 12 O’clock scenario has been adapted as a joke in modern Indian society, where a Sardar is supposed to go nuts when the clock strikes 12 O’clock. There are numerous other examples of offensive Sardar jokes out there revolving around an assumed lack of intelligence of the Sardar and his community.

yep its true even got picshttp://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?p...0-8-2007_pg13_1

Is there any release from PSGPC or any other Sikh groups in Pakistan? There is still a Kharkoo base in Pakistan with the likes of Wadhava Singh and others who seeked refuge in Pakistan. Anyone able to find how the Sikhs in Pakistan are dealing with the issue and what urgent support we can give from over here?

this is false news and part of the Hindu propaganda their is press release coming tommorow by psgpc explaining and clearing this issue

Please post the press release as soon as it is released. I have googled the for the press release from PSGPC but not found anything yet. The only press release today is from the Indian News Premier Agency.

http://www.ptinews.com/pti%5Cptisite.nsf/0...E5?OpenDocument

Statement demanded on seizure of Sikh shrine in Pakistan

New Delhi, Aug 22 (PTI) Members in the Rajya Sabha today asked the Government to immediately take up with Pakistan the issue of capturing of the 300-year-old Sikh Gurudwara in Lahore.

Raising the matter during Zero Hour, Tarlochan Singh (Independent) said members of the Sikh community were agitated over the matter.

"The Government of India should take up the matter with Pakistan and ensure that the Gurudwara is returned to the Sikhs," the former Minorities Commission Chairman said.

Congress member M S Gill wanted the External Affairs Minister to look into the matter and make a statement in the House. PTI

There's some history to this situation going back to 1935-40. See below.

http://www.sikhcybermuseum.org.uk/history/ShahidGanj1935.htm

Shahidganj Agitation

Tussle between Sikh and Muslim Communities (1935-40)

Marked culmination of the tussle between Sikh and Muslim communities in the Punjab for the possession of a sacred site in Lahore upon which stood Gurdwara Shahidganj (shahid = martyr, ganj = hoard, treasure) in memory of Sikh martyrs of the eighteenth century and which the Muslims claimed as having been the location of an historic Islamic site. The Gurdwara is located in Landa Bazar midway between the Lahore railway station and the Delhi Gate at the site known earlier as Nakhas (Persian nakhkhas, meaning a marketplace for the sale of captives, horses and cattle taken as war prize). This was the place where thousands of Sikhs, including the celebrated Bhai Taru Singh, and about 3,000 captives of the Chhota Ghallughara campaign (1746) were executed or tortured to death. Here Mu'in ul-Mulk (Mir Mannu, in Sikh chronicles), governor of Lahore during 1748-53, raised a building shaped like a mosque sitting where the muftis, Muslim judges, gave their summary judgements after giving their victims a straight choice between conversion to Islam and death. Almost invariably the victims chose the latter. Close by was the place where Sikh women and children were kept in narrow cells to meet slow death through hard labour and starvation.

The Nakhas, long soaked with the blood of martyrs, became for the Sikhs a sacred spot and, after they came into power in Punjab during the 1760's, they established a gurdwara there which they named Shahidganj. Since then it had remained in the possession of the Sikhs as a sacred place. Soon after the annexation of the Punjab to the British empire, one Nur Muhammad filed a case in 1850 for the reversion of the "mosque" to him as its rightful owner, but it was turned down as the court was not convinced of the genuineness of the claim. Similar claims raised in 1854 and 1883 were also dismissed on the ground that the place was no longer a mosque but a gurdwara. According to the Punjab Government Gazette Notification No 275, dated 22 December 1927, the shrine was listed as Gurdwara Shahidganj Bhai Taru Singh. The Muslims again contested the Sikhs' claim to their "mosque" but the Sikh Gurdwara Tribunal, established under the Sikh Gurdwaras Act, 1925, in its judgement dated 20 January 1930 determined that the place was the property of Gurdwara Bhai Taru Singh.

The Muslims went in appeal, but the Lahore High Court in 1934 upheld the verdict of the Gurdwara Tribunal. The local Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee, Lahore, got possession of the Shahidganj in March 1935 and decided to replace the old mosque-like building with a new one. The bulk of the clearing work having been completed by 7 June 1935, the demolition of the old building was taken in hand on 8 June. It continued uninterrupted for 20 days, but on 29 June a Muslim mob tried to enter the premises and, although they were successfully checked by the inmates, the Deputy Commissioner of Lahore, Mr S. Pratab, stayed further demolition. The political climate in the country was already charged with communal passions aroused by the Communal Award of 1932. The Sikhs, considering that, after the decision of the courts in their favour, the reconstruction of the Gurdwara was their natural and legal right, resumed the demolition on 8 July despite the stay order. This was resented by the Muslims, but the government did not use force to prevent the demolition, for the reason that the "Sikhs in taking this action were not committing any criminal offence." In fact Sikh leaders had asked many Akalis to leave the city and sent out instructions to different centres not to send any more volunteers to Lahore. The tension did mount, but Lahore remained free from any communal incidents. On 2 December the government passed a general restrictive order under Arms Act, 1878, banning the carrying of swords and kirpan. The Sikhs resented the restriction on kirpan which was, one of their religious symbols, and launched an agitation against the ban on 1 January 1936. The ban was withdrawn on 31 January 1936.

Meanwhile, the Muslims had filed, on 30 October 1935, a fresh suit for the possession of the Shahidganj "Mosque". Though the suit was dismissed on 25 May 1936, an appeal was filed in the High Court. The Shahidganj issue temporarily receded into the background partly owing to the impending elections to the Punjab Legislative Assembly under the Government of India Act, 1935. In April 1937 the Unionist party representing sections of Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs formed the ministry under Sir Sikandar Hayat Khan, who claiming his ministry to be neutral in character, made it clear to the Muslims that their claim in the Shahidganj case could not be accepted arbitrarily. He promised to strive for an amicable settlement of the problem and appealed to the parties to the dispute not to do anything which might worsen the communal situation in the Punjab. The Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee, an elected body representing the Sikh people, unanimously passed a resolution at its meeting held on 10-11 March 1938 affirming that no compromise was possible on what it considered a vital religious issue. Meanwhile, the legal battle continued. The Muslims' appeal filed in the High Court was dismissed on 26 January 1938, and a further appeal to the judicial Committee of the Privy Council met with the same fate on 2 May 1940. This virtually ended the dispute.

yep its true even got picshttp://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?p...0-8-2007_pg13_1

Is there any release from PSGPC or any other Sikh groups in Pakistan? There is still a Kharkoo base in Pakistan with the likes of Wadhava Singh and others who seeked refuge in Pakistan. Anyone able to find how the Sikhs in Pakistan are dealing with the issue and what urgent support we can give from over here?

http://www.newkerala.com/july.php?action=f...ws&id=55136

Muslims groups occupy Sikh Bhai Taro Singh Jee temple in Lahore

Lahore, Aug 20 :

The ownership of Bhai Taro Singh Jee temple in Lahore's Naulakha Bazaar has become the centre of a confrontation between the Sikhs and Muslim hooligan groups, which have allegedly taken over the temple's ownership.

The Sikh community has alleged that local Muslim hooligans, who are getting support of Evacuee Trust Property Board (ETPB), have taken control over the temple and have debarred them from entering inside it.

Representatives of the Sikh community said that the hooligans had stopped them from entering the premises for the past two months.

Muslims first prayed for saint, Pir Shah Kaku, and then started offering Asr and Maghrib prayers and started holding Quranic mehfils at the temple, the Sikh groups said.

According to Daily Times, Sikhs' religious symbols has been removed from the temple and Islamic slogans of 'Ya Allah' and 'Ya Rehmatul Alimeen' had replaced them. A plaque giving details of the pir's identity had also been put up on one of the walls.

The daily also spoke to the leader of the occupants of the temple, Sohail Butt, who said that they have taken the step (to occupy the temple) in their personal capacity "for the welfare of the Muslims community."

He admitted that the former guard of the temple had seen a dream where Pir Shah Kaku "had urged him to keep the Sikhs away from the temple".

He added that they are trying to ascertain the pir's date of death, and "once done we will hold a yearly urs in celebration."

Meanwhile, Sikh groups said that they were protesting against hooligans' activities and have urged the ETPB, but to no avail.

"After the temple's dome was painted green, the committee wrote to the then ETPB additional secretary Izharul Hassan against the violation of the temple's sanctity, said Dr. Mampal Singh.

He alleged that hooligans had claimed the shrine for themselves and that the ETPB had told the committee it would resolve the issue within a month.

"They haven't done anything yet and the hooligans are tightening their grip on our worship place,' he added.

However, EPTB refutes allegations levelled by Sikh groups.

ETPB chairman Lt Gen ® Zulfiqar Ali Khan told the daily that the trustee is in charge of the temple and Muslims go there to pray for the saint, while Sikhs go there for their worship.

"There is no plaque of the saint or other plaques inscribed with Islamic slogans inside the temple. Vested quarters are trying to put a negative touch to the issue, but ETPB won't allow them to do so," he said, adding that they are trying to maintain a status quo.

The locals in the area have disputed the claims of the hooligans stating it is not authentic.

"They want to make money from the devotees and in this process have violated the sanctity of Sikhs worship place," a local said.

--- ANI