Jaspaul Singh

There are frequent amrit sanchaars, I can get you direct contact number.

Email me: jaspaulgavria@hotmail.com

Liveeeeee Saturday morning ASA DI VAAR

http://www.sikhvibes.com/livebroadcast

liveeeeeeee

Sanjha Smagam

one more hour !!!

http://www.sikhvibes.com/livebroadcast

we are now LIVEEEEEEEE

http://www.sikhvibes.com/livebroadcast

Smagam starts THIS Thursday !!!!

Audio Recordings are now going up (will all be up shortly): CLICK HERE

Pictures: CLICK HERE

Enjoy :D

Singh ji.. it was not us who including bhagat sahibans bani in Guru Granth Sahib ji, but it was guru saahib himself, Dhan Guru Arjun Dev Sahib ji!

Yes I do know him.

He was a member here but he was banned by mods from this site and a couple other sites. Are you sure he still a member at sikhawareness?

He was banned for what? He was banned for using vulgar language for dasam granth sahib.I hope

Jaspaul ji you agree that he asked for this.

I entered into discussions with him on wahegurunetwork on Dasam granth. He fled from there also.

Let me say that he knew nothing about the meaning of myth,metaphor and symbolism used extensively in Dasam granth sahib. Example is myth of creation in Bachitra natak. Myth is never reality.

Yes he is still a member on sikhawareness. Please bring him in.

No I dun agree wit his remarks.

Im sure he is reading this as he does visit this forum.

There are more ways to have a free debate. Here you will have admins censor everything along with many young temper-minded kids. If you want a good mature debate between knowledgable people, then maybe create a blog where the debate will happen between only a few chosen individuals?

Yes I do know him.

He was a member here but he was banned by mods from this site and a couple other sites. Are you sure he still a member at sikhawareness?

From past experience, nothing good comes out of 'online' discussions. Best is face to face.

I know this "Khalsa Fauj" he is based in Toronto and he wants to have a real discussion with knowledgable sikhs on sri dasam granth. And jus to clarify, my views are pro-dasam bani.

Are there any such sikhs in around Toronto that will except his call?

Which Amolak Singh Jee? There are two.

Yes, Amolak Singh jee (Australia) is here in Toronto rite now.

Starts this FRIDAY !!!! :D

Vaheguruuu...good initiative!

BUMP !

3 weeks to go, please submit in your camper forms !

Canadian eyewitness recalls bodies 'everywhere, everywhere, everywhere'

It has been 25 years, but Inderjit Singh Jagraon talks about his experiences inside the Golden Temple in Amritsar, India, as if he just walked out of the complex

ROBERT MATAS

From Saturday's Globe and Mail, Saturday, Jun. 06, 2009 09:02AM EDT

It's been 25 years, but Inderjit Singh Jagraon talks about his experiences in early June, 1984, inside the Golden Temple in Amritsar, India, as if he just walked out of the complex. His voice quivers as he recounts the horrific scene: dead bodies everywhere, everywhere, everywhere, he repeats. Men with open bullet wounds and limbs missing; floors awash in blood and water.

Mr. Jagraon recalls running from gunfire. The man next to him was shot and fell forward on his head. "He died in my hands," Mr. Jagraon said in an interview this week. "He did not move. I left him where he was. I ran away." Everyone was trying to find a place to hide, like mice. "We ran from room to room," he said.

Mr. Jagraon, who is now married, the father of three daughters and living in Toronto, was a 19-year-old student in 1984, in his second year of studies in civil engineering in his hometown of Jagraon, about two hours away from the holiest shrine in the Sikh religion.

He was active in the Sikh Student Federation, a group considered to be a terrorist organization by the government of India. The group was involved mostly in educating people about the Sikh religion, Mr. Jagraon said. But they did more than that and some members paid a price. "Anyone asking for their rights and justice [at that time] was beaten up or killed, and their voice ... quieted," he said without elaborating.

On June 1, 1984, he heard that government forces had killed a number of people at the temple. He went with a friend to find out what was happening. No one stopped them from going in, but once inside the temple complex, he was unable to leave.

The Golden Temple is actually a collection of religious halls, offices and dormitories. Armed terrorists were in the central temple building. Mr. Jagraon stayed in a dormitory called Guru Ram Das Sarai. He says he was not involved in the fighting. "I was a student, a young kid; I was not trained to do all those things," he said.

The shooting and explosions began around 4:30 a.m. on June 4, his second night at the temple, and continued into the next day. He recalled a voice on a loudspeaker around 5 p.m. on June 5, saying whoever wants to come out would be allowed to leave. He stayed but others went. He saw them being beaten with steel rods as they stepped out.

The exchange of fire ended on June 6. Mr. Jagraon was taken into custody that night. He had fallen asleep and was awaken by a soldier pointing a gun at his chest. Soldiers lined up hundreds of people. He was left sitting for hours with dead bodies on the floor nearby. He recalled seeing people die from their wounds, after asking soldiers for water.

He was eventually put on a bus and taken to a camp in an isolated location. He remembers the intense heat. People went crazy for water, he said. He saw an army tank point its barrel and shoot some of those people. He estimated around 60 people were killed.

He was held in a high-security prison until March, 1989, convicted of fighting against the Indian army. Mr. Jagraon came to Canada via Kenya in August, 1991.

"Now everything is okay," said Mr. Jagraon, who works as a realtor. He continues to support the goals of the student federation that led to his troubles. "I am a well-wisher of all those organizations who seek Sikh rights," he said, "but I'm not really involved in any [of them]."

"When you look at Rwanda, the whole world knew what was happening and was shaken right to the core," Kirpa Kaur, a member of a group called B.C. Sikh Youth, said earlier this week. "So few people know about [the attacks of 1984] and they perceive it as a story brought up needlessly."

She believes human-rights violations that occurred 25 years ago continue to sting because those responsible for the actions were never punished. "As Canadians who have deeply emotional and social connections to the injustices that happened in Punjab, we would hope that the Canadian government would support us in fighting injustices, in helping us indict those who clearly have been found guilty... [by non-governmental organizations]," she said.

The government of India sent the army into the Golden Temple compound in the first week of June, 1984, after years of deadly skirmishes with militant Sikh leaders fighting for Sikh rights and Khalistan. Government officials said their goal was to dislodge terrorists who had turned the religious hall and adjacent buildings into an armed fortress.

The assault coincided with a religious pilgrimage that had drawn thousands of Sikhs to the site on June 3 to pay homage on the martyrdom day of the fifth guru, Arjan Dev. Most were trapped in the compound after Indian forces launched continuous artillery bombardments and mortar fire. Unable to flush the terrorists out, the army stepped up its attack on June 4, sending infantry into the compound.

The deadly exchange of fire with Sikhs armed with machine guns, rifles and pistols ended on June 6. A government white paper says 493 people, including religious leader Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, were killed. Non-governmental groups say as many as 10,000 people, mostly innocent pilgrims, were killed and priceless historic artifacts, including religious books and historical documents in the library, were destroyed. Bodies were cremated without notifying relatives and without autopsies. No official records of cremations were kept. Many Sikhs perceived the attacks as calculated assaults on their faith, culture and identity.

The events fuelled the secessionist insurgency. Radical fringe groups championing the Khalistani cause found themselves suddenly in the mainstream. In Canada, less than a week after the assault, thousands of angry people marched in protest in Toronto, Winnipeg and Vancouver, vowing to avenge the attack on the Golden Temple. Effigies of Indian prime minister Indira Gandhi were stabbed and burned. Some carried placards with slogans such as "Death to butcher Indira" and "Indira Gandhi dead old meat." An Indian flag was set on fire on the steps of the Manitoba Legislature.

Ms. Gandhi was assassinated four months later. In June, 1985, Sikh radicals had explosives checked onto two flights from Vancouver. The explosions on opposite sides of the world caused 331 deaths.

This year in Canada, events are considerably quieter. The World Sikh Organization held a dinner in Ottawa on Thursday for parliamentarians, community leaders and members of the Sikh community. Public forums are being held throughout June in several cities on how the events of June, 1984, shaped the Sikh community.

In downtown Vancouver, a group of Canadian-born, religious youth are holding a vigil today. Earlier this week, members of the organizing group spoke to The Globe and Mail about the changes within their community since 1984. Following Sikh tradition, the women in the group wished to be identified by the family name Kaur and most of the men identified themselves only as Singh.

Some said they believe many of their generation are unaware of what happened in 1984. "The only reason my history-12 class knew anything about it was because my teacher asked me about it," said Paneet Singh, who was born six years after the assault on the temple. His Grade 12 history textbook had only two paragraphs on the events and his teachers did not elaborate. "It is not as though it is going to be on a final exam," he said.

Their parents' generation was hesitant to talk about 1984 after the Air India bombing. Those who spoke up were tagged as extremists or terrorists. Many remained silent and over the years became apathetic, the members of B.C. Sikh Youth said.

However, the youth are indifferent to the charge of promoting Khalistan. They say the accusation is a myth intended to divert attention from the injustices. "Our main concern at these events is strictly human rights," said Jagjit Singh, the main spokesman for the youth group. Kirpa Kaur, a recent graduate in psychology and social equity, said some of the youth may be supporters of Khalistan. "But these events are about fighting injustice and [the secessionist movement is] absolutely irrelevant to what we are doing."

Prabhroop Kaur, 21, has been going to annual vigils for events in 1984 "ever since I can remember," she said. Her parents instilled in her a strong commitment to justice. "They sat me down and told me what happened. We were supposed to fight injustice everywhere.... We grew up with that. We see clearly injustice and we have to do something about it."

Gurdit Singh, 25, a college student in human-resource management, identified "an education gap" between his parents and himself. His father was a farmer in Punjab and his mother was a high-school teacher. "They talk about it, but they had more raw emotions, more anger built up inside them. They did not know how to proceed, what to do next."

Some parents accepted what the Indian government told them. Paneet Singh said his mother left India in 1986 believing that Sikhs brought the assault upon themselves, as the government of India says. His mother told him the extremists had to be flushed out of the temple and the government had to restore order.

But the younger generation has more tools than their parents to find out what went on in 1984. "The ease with which we can go and find records, find third-party accounts, is exponentially bigger than what our parents would have been able to do, if they had the knowledge base and skills to do it," said Perpinder Singh Patrola, a 31-year-old lawyer. "We have resources that did not exist 15, 20 years ago. We may feel emotions, but we can move beyond raw emotion and look at actual facts and figures, and present it - without reducing it to something that is purely emotional."

Research has shown that stories they were told about their history were often not true, Kirpa Kaur said. "We have to do a lot of work ourselves to figure out the true story."

Shining a global spotlight on what actually happened is a step toward having justice done, she added. "Living in a country as Canada, which claims to support so many human rights-type initiatives, we say it is time to support us in fighting against injustice."

*****

Q&A

What happened?

Prime Minister Indira Gandhi sent the Indian army into the Golden Temple in Amritsar in the first week of June, 1984, to flush out militant Sikh leaders who were using the religious compound as their headquarters in a campaign of violence against their critics, the police and state institutions.

Why did the government send in troops at that time?

The Indian government moved to restore law and order after a lengthy string of killings, arsons and lootings that it said threatened the stability of the state. Violence had claimed the lives of 410 people and injured more than 1,180 in the two years before the attack, according to a white paper on the Punjab agitation dated July 10, 1984. More than 775 violent incidents were recorded in the five months prior to the attack.

Who were the religious

militants?

The political leadership in Punjab province had a lengthy list of grievances with the central government built up over several years, ranging from disputes over surplus water rights to concerns over issues related to the Sikh religion. Sectarian violence erupted in 1978, with fundamentalist Sikhs embracing secession as the most effective way to protect their religion. The troubles escalated in 1981, following several killings, the hijacking of an Indian plane by Sikh extremists, and rallies by the All India Sikh Students Federation calling for the creation of Khalistan. After the head of the student group was arrested in July, 1982, fundamentalist leaders moved into the Golden Temple complex and turned it into a fortified encampment.

Were only religious militants killed in the assault?

The military assault coincided with a religious pilgrimage that had drawn thousands of Sikhs to the site. The militants were in dormitories on the compound as well as in the religious halls. Hundreds if not thousands of pilgrims were caught in the crossfire. Shekhar Gupta, a correspondent with India Today, wrote in a report published Aug 15, 1984: "As the army got sniped at from a number of rooms in the parikrama [a walkway around the pool that surrounded the temple] and the sarais [dormitories ], the troops just threw grenades into the rooms. 'People were dying on both sides,' recalls an officer, adding, 'and there was no time to find out who was inside a room.' Some of the pilgrims also died of thirst. Many died of the fires which broke out."

Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nation...article1172044/

Live Broadcast.................. Please?

Good Idea, but it should be more organized. All you should go in bunches/groups, sit together and have banners. It will be more effective!

Excellent.

We got an email about this earliar, we are thinking of using them for kids at an upcoming camp!

Lesson #1

No matter how great a seva initiative mite be, there will ALWAYS be those that dun approve of it, find negativities over positives, or keeping looking to want more!

Sikh Channel, keep up the great work

Im not from UK, but any big seva like this requires HUGE funds.

The question to ask oneself, are you contributing any dasvand? Will it be enough?

There is nothing wrong in advertising and giving recognition to those that contributed. They may not be all sikhs, just trying to get their business recognized, and if it means well for both sides then why not? They may be generous next time around and give double the amount! This is what marketing is all about. If you dont have funds for the channel, theres no way it will run unless you have someone with you with $$.

Yes, the layout can be changed, and I believe "Sikh Channel" Sevadar already said in another thread that they are going to be bringing it up with their sevadars.

He also said they are lacking sevadars. Why not get up, and attend their meetings and be part of their organization?

Vaheguruu ji ka khalsa, Vaheguruu ji ki fateh

Pyare Veerjeeo,

As I noticed there are so many views on this topic but yet to be one response, this moorakh will make an attempt to answer your questions

First and foremost. A sikh, you would agree your guru is none other than Dhan Guru Granth Sahib jee maharaj. 10 gurus are from Guru Nanak Dev jee to our pita Guru Gobind Singh jee. You believe in the amrit di dhaat which was blessed to ALL sikhs on 1699 vasaikhi by our pita jii. He blessed us with this initiation ceremony into the khalsa and ordered all his sikhs to obey all basic principles of sikhi from Guru Nanak dev jee along with other conditions that an amritdhari should and should not do after taking amrit.

Brother, a flowing beard is what identifies us to our father. Our father flowed his beard out proudly. We should not be judgmental amongst other youth who wish to live their life in this form you talk about.

These youth that are in 'bhana' all the time, one humble request to you and others, PLEASE do not 'assume' things. Assumptions can kill all of us. We start thinking and thinking and assuming and concluding things that we get away from REALITY. I urge you to talk to them, get their reaction and perspective on things. (Im not saying you are making assumptions, but just stating the obvious)

Yes veejee, guru sahib DOES understand our situations but it doesnt mean that if my work place says you must cut your hair, you would it haina? There are compromises and then there are BORDER lines. There are many ways you can adapt to wearing your kirpan and still goto work. If your work place is not being cooperating and using racial indifferences, please contact authorities ASAP.

Your not wrong to hold these views. Others live another type of jeevan and it all depends on how one is brought up. You may see them as 'extremists' as the western or even apnai label them, but others will look at them as 'premi vale'. Always filled with love for guru sahib and continually doing seva. Yes there are MANY youth that do it for show, arrogant, egoistic, BUT, brother lets look and concentrate on our own lives rather on pinpointing on others. Im not saying you are, just stating the obvious again

About sants, there is a lot of respect given to sants in bani but they come in VERY few numbers. If you know someone and all he preaches is love for guru sahib, love for bani and ONLY about SIKHI, then you are very lucky to have had someones sangat

Im farely new into sikhi as well, dont know too much about the udhasis/nirmala but read a little bit about them. I wont be able to comment here. But yes, we should all live in harmony!

Hope that helps veer, please dont take my comments to heart.

Ok, I got a question for you all...

What is the difference between a Punjabi or a "Sikh" that is already on the wrong track, going out clubbing, waisting his or her time getting high or drunk, and completely against the teachings of sikhi, how they different from anyone that converted?

We have already lost them. Bringing them back to sikhi is the same thing as in bringing anyone back from ANY side other than sikhi. They have already made up their minds.

I wanted to clear this up with everyone that we shouldnt be seeing that them converting is wrong, but we were wrong not to do something for them BEFORE they were sidetracked. If an amritdhari, guru ka sikh has converted, then thats a big deal since he was a 'practising sikh'.

A person that is already not into sikhi, not living as a sikh, we have already lost him/her LOOOOOONG time ago !

Other than that, YES, we should be doing prachaar, YES, we should be doing seva to stop these conversions, YES we should be educating the youth and YES I agree it is majority the PARENTS FAULT for not educating their youth!

Just my two cents worth ...

Please include the link to the live stream

They can be arranged when there are enough abhlaakhis. There might be one in hamilton area end of june/beginning of july. I can get you a contact number, you can email me at singh.jaspaul@gmail.com or PM me here.