Singhstah

I don't know who you are and I don't know what you are talking about but I know your name because you share it on gurmatbibek.com....

Bit odd, how did you make the correlation between Uttam Singh on Gurmatbibek (which, yes, is me) and this account? Funny, you don't deny being singh154 but then say you don't know what I am talking about. Fine, as you please, carry on with your falsehood, I didn't expect much better from someone who makes false allegations about others.

Yes, Guru Gobind singh ji was well aware of what saas giraas simran was. But it is not the same technique as akj do that has been modified as I have explained in my previous post. You talk about Bhai mani singh knowing this technique but wouldn't have all of taksaal, nihungs, nanaksar known about this by now? How come only AKJ seem to know this. You got to remember akj was started only 60 years ago? So it is impossible for them to make such claims.

Well Sant Teja Singh Ji quoted a particular historical text saying Bhai Mani Singh said what it was he said. This source was much older than akj. That is the main point here.

I think we will just go on in circles regarding the technique, so no point carrying on with it. Anyone with an objective and sincere mind will be able to look at all the facts and see the truth.

Also bhai teja singh, bhai randhir singh are not authoritative sources. They were not there during guru ji’s time.

You will see that I did not quote Sant Teja Singh Ji's (please note this is not teja singh bhasaur) words, but him quoting the sources of sau sakhi and Bhai Mani Singh Ji, both of which are older than AKJ, which flies strongly in the face of your claims that this technique was invented in the last 60 years.

Even bhai randhir singh received naam differently and then later on he learnt this technique and taught the panj pyarea what he learnt. Ok fair enough about the jumping but I meant to say was it does happen.

Naam drir used to happen in those amrit sanchars as it does now, it was only that particular amrit sanchar in which the maryada was broken, which was exactly why Bhai Randhir Singh made note of it and expressed his upset, as the maryada of panj pyare giving and explaining the technique of naam was broken. This in itself is the exception which proves the rule. Bhai Sahib certainly did not teach anyone the technique as he himself has written an entire chapter clearly in the book Gurmat Naam Abhiyaas Kamayee that only the Satguru (i.e. panj pyare) can perform naam drir, you have made this up out of nowhere that bhai sahib taught the panj pyare what he learnt. And strangely, earlier you were saying Guru Ji did not teach this technique and now you are saying that he learnt it. Please be consistent. Either Bhai Sahib made it up or he learnt it. If he learnt it then who other than Guru Sahib did he learn it from?

It's good you read bhai randhir singhs works but you can't just base all your sikhi knowledge on his writings ji.

You yourself stated that you do not know me, therefore I do not see how you can come to a conclusion that I base all my 'sikhi knowledge' on his writings, 'ji'.

Uttam Singh Ji, my aim is to highlight how there are differences in the panth and why we shouldn't be attacking others who stand out

So very interesting coming from yourself!

What I meant when I said Guru ji didn't give naam like this was if you read puratan sources or talk to ginai Thakur singh damdami taksaal, Sant Jagjit Singh harokwal and even Sant ajit singh hansali you will notice that nowhere in history did guru ji give naam in that style to the panj pyarea.[/b]

This was introduced only in the last 60 years by Bhai Randhir Singh ji because amrit sanchaars before this period never mentioned no such tecnique of giving naam like this

Bhai Thakur Singh, Bhai Jagjit Singh etc. are not authoritative sources, just because they may not be aware of its earlier existence does not mean that it is not puratan. The very reason you wouldn't find the technique written in full is the fact that only the Panj Pyare are allowed to impart this method, but it has certainly been passed down seena baseena. Gursikhs before Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji certainly japped naam in such a way otherwise a panj pyare which could impart this technique would never have been able to have been formed! And how they did naam jap in such a way was they were taught to do so when receving amrit.

As for it only being introduced recently by Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Ji (the title given to Bhai Sahib by the Panth), I share the following;

Sant Teja Singh wrote the following on the naam technique:

"The method of reciting naam (naam japan dee jugath) has been passed down from Gursikh to Gursikh. But this daas has only seen it written in two places. In Sau Sakhi its says that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj tells Mata Jeetho Ji that the tip of the tounge (jeeb di teesy), with force (jOr naal), should touch the roof of the mouth (thaloo naal), and at all times keep saying Waheguru Waheguru.

Shaheed Bhai Mani Singh, the one who sat and listened to the recitation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji by Sri Guru Gobind Singh himself, in Bhai Gurdas Ji's 'yarwee waar' in 'sheeha thay gajan dee sakhee', has written that when our breath goes in we should say 'Wahe' and when our breath goes out we should say 'guru'"

I have not read it myself but have been told that Prem Sumarag granth also contains the exact technique.

Also if you ever get a chance to talk to Bhagat kabir Ji's followers (Bhagat kabir panthis) they also mention how bhagat kabir ji attuned to saas graas simran, which is very different to the recent akj method. .

I don't understand what relevence kabir panthis would have to this discussion considering Bhagat Kabir Ji became a Sikh of Satguru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj, while they themselves have not followed the footsteps of those they claim to be devotees of. Certainly any technique followed by a different panth would be different to that of the Khalsa Panth.

What I meant when you see some sangat in akj jumping up and down is that they breathe in so vigorously whilst reciting naam that they jump up and down or side to side. I can show you a video on youtube if you want a demonstration of this movement.

Jumping up and down means to lift yourself off the ground. Part of someone moving is very different to this. It is not taught in any amrit sanchar organisd by Akhand Kirtani Jatha to move from side to side, in fact a recent statement by the AKJ Jathedar has made it clear not to do this. What individuals do is another matter.

Like I said we should respect all difference regardless they are of akj or 3ho all are acceptable as people have different ways of loving God. If we learn to accept each other’s difference then there will be panthic ekta. It's easy to point figures at others and say they are wrong but this only creates rifts in the panth. Hope you understand Ji.

Waheguru! Nanak Naam Chardi Kala, tere bhane sarbat dah pala

I wonder does this involve lying about people, trying to give them a bad name?

On a final note I have shown total transparency in disclosing my identity. Given all that has happened previously and seeing a now more mature approach by yourself I once again request that you privately disclose your identity and we do vichaar in the appropriate gurmat manner.

Sarbloh means something made totally of loha (though it does always tend to have some very low carbon content), so a sarbloh kara will run out of sarbloh when it has totally corroded into nothingness LOL.

In purely physical (non-spiritual) terms, the only power of sarbloh in regards to our body is literally that the iron transfers into our body through the skin by way of oxidation. This will never stop as long as the kara is in existence, so you are ok for a few thousand years lol.

You can't say what she is doing is wrong.... There are a lot of variations in the panth... look at AKJ sangat jumping up and down when doing simran or the way they recite the gurmantar, which is different than how guru ji taught us; I won't say that is wrong it's just a variation. She is reciting gurbani while doing yoga that's her sharda. Look at sufis they spin around dancing whilst reciting God's name, which is their way of showing love to God. What we need is pyar and acceptance for others.

Singh154, please elaborate on this part in bold, thanks.

From bangla sahib on zee punjabi sky 798

I was browsing youtube for shabads and came across this horrendous sacrilege. Please report the video IMMEDIATELY. The uploader's youtube profile leads to a facebook page of a Muslim. This is an attack on our Guru.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpVwt5VQ54I&feature=related

Less than 2 hours till it starts!

Vaheguroo

WaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa, WaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh!

Is the audio available for this yet please?

If so where is it located?

Thanks

WaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa, WaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh!

Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/HarsimratKaur/search?query=manchester+2011

Whenever audio only files are uploaded they will most likely be put up here http://www.gsghks.org.uk/kirtan.htm

VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh Jeeo,

A Keertan Darbar has been organised for Monday December 26th 2011 at Sri Guru Singh Sabha London East, 722-730 High Road, Seven Kings, Ilford, Essex, IG3 8SX.

Time: 6:30pm - 11:00 pm.

Please attend and take laha.

With regards to Sikhs joining politics to make a difference, IMO the whole system needs a change, it cant be changed from within (my opinion anyway), I personally don't think piri necessarily always entails involvement in the political processes of the establishment, rather activism in general. I think an aversion to the world of politicians by any spiritually minded person is not surprising,it would take someone of an extremely high avastha to prevent being corrupted themselves let alone make any change. Activism on the other hand, I do believe we should be much more involved in (myself included), and don't see any good reasons we shouldn't. Especially with the machinery already set up in the form of orgs such as SOPW, united sikhs etc.

mmm, lets look closely at this.

lust : humans yes, animals , no. Humans are affected by lust. Animals have a natural cycle for reproduction that doesnt involve lust.

intoxications : humans yes, animals, no. i havent heard of any animals that get intoxicated.

eating corpses: humans yes, animals, yes.

dont look after thier bodies: humans yes and no, animals, yes, they have an instinct to clean themselves and dont get their fur cut for nothing.

so, really you are advising bhenji to act more like an animal, yes?

I used the word lust as I did not want to be explicit, my main meaning was having multiple sexual partners as opposed to one spouse, as for intoxication I meant indulging in any sorts of pleasures, having no discrimination (Bibek-budhi) when consuming anything (now you will say animals only eat what their bodies are adapted for, blah blah..) The human body was given to us for a specific purpose (meeting Vaheguru) not to just indulge or sustain it. Lets try reading between the lines next time.

Are you trying to say that keeping in rehat makes one more like an animal than a human? That is a very disrespectful thing to say.

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਸਉ ਕਰਿ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਸੁਖ ਕਿ ਪੁਛਹਿ ਮਿਤ ॥

Manamukh So Kar Dhosathee Sukh K Pushhehi Mith ||

If you make friends with the self-willed manmukhs, O friend, who can you ask for peace?

ਗੁਰਮੁਖ ਸਉ ਕਰਿ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਉ ਲਾਇ ਚਿਤੁ ॥

Guramukh So Kar Dhosathee Sathigur So Laae Chith ||

Make friends with the Gurmukhs, and focus your consciousness on the True Guru.

(Ang 1421)

Other than that work on your naam abhiyas/simran so much that you eminate a glow and a presence that even non-Gursikhs can feel. Try to share accomodation with Gursikhs instead. If there are not enough gursikhs at your uni perhaps you could share with those from nearby unis. Also note, while you had expectations of non-sikhs at uni to be respectful of you, you may be thinking that 'sikhs' will be respectful, be aware that although there will be some who do respect, many (most likely the majority) will be exactly the same as the non-sikhs you have encountered. Those who stick to the true guru in this world are extremely rare, but these rare people are gems keeping the earth standing otherwise it would have destroyed itself among all the sin taking place on it. Keep it in your mind to only care about the sangat of such people and carry on being one of these people yourself!

To an insane person everything a sane person does is insane and humorous. Would you care what an insane person thought of you? Guroo Maharaj tells us:

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਸਭੁ ਜਗੁ ਬਉਰਾਨਾ ॥

Bin Sathigur Sabh Jag Bouraanaa ||

Without the True Guru, the whole world is insane.

ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਅੰਧਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਨ ਜਾਣੈ ਝੂਠੈ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾਨਾ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Manamukh Andhhaa Sabadh N Jaanai Jhoothai Bharam Bhulaanaa || Rehaao ||

The blind, self-willed manmukhs do not realize the Word of the Shabad; they are deluded by false doubts. ||Pause|| (Ang 604)

Maharaj says:

ਕਰਤੂਤਿ ਪਸੂ ਕੀ ਮਾਨਸ ਜਾਤਿ ॥

Karathooth Pasoo Kee Maanas Jaath ||

They belong to the human species, but they act like animals.

ਲੋਕ ਪਚਾਰਾ ਕਰੈ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤਿ ॥

Lok Pachaaraa Karai Dhin Raath ||

They curse others day and night. (Ang 267)

Ask yourself; those who engage freely in lust with whoever, intoxicate themselves, eat corpses and do not even look after their bodies (Kesha di beadbi, etc), are they acting like animals or humans? What understanding let alone respect could they have of someone living a truthful lifestyle? They can't comprehend anything without Guru Sahib.

Next time you are in this situation, put on your bana and a nice 2 foot sri sahib in your gatra and walk like a proud singhni of dasam patsha, do not give a second thought to jackals let alone fear them.

Akj rainsabai live from holland on sikh channel 840 right now. Can also stream live from www.sikhchannel.tv

There were meant to be lots of write ups coming out regarding Baba Ji's jeevan and also writings of Baba Ji himself, have these been released? If not, benti to make these precious gems available to the sangat.

More photos would be great to!

A singh is on talking about reincarnation

Gurfateh jeeo,

tonight - 9th November 2011. at barking gurdwara there will be two events taking place. in the main hall will be a Bibia rainsabai keertan. In the other hall will be keertan, simran and paath by YOUTH.

For more info please ring 07940200673.

According to Sant Baba Nand Singh Ji staying up the night before Guru Nanak Dev Ji's gurpurab will give one the reward of doing one year's amritvela (however, this is not an excuse not to get up for amritvela throughout the year!).

Get extra laha by doing it in sangat rather than on your own!

How do you get your vaja to sound like this?

Absolutely amazing keertan btw.

Gurfateh jeeo,

Congratulations on coming closer to Guru Maharaj.

I go to Uni in london, which uni do you go to? I would be happy to try to help you in any way. Or maybe we can find some sangat on this forum who go to your uni.

The Hindus that Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji gave his life for were being given the choice of death or conversion to Islam. The banning of Halal and Kosher meat is in no way comparable to what was happening to those Hindus. By banning halal/kosher no one is being stopped from following their religion, it is not a compulsory part of either religion to eat meat, it is simply that when they do eat meat it must be such meat that was slaughtered in a ritiualstic manner. Simply, they will have to stop eating meat, no one is beig prevented from following their religion by this!

One step closer to the banning of all meat!

Singhstah Ji, which talks did you attend? I am fairly certain I did not hear anything like that, unless my memory is failing me here lol.

I think we have to accept that Niddar and his crew have odd views, but the exhibition itself was organised very nicely.

It wasn't one of the talks you had to pre book, I just popped in one afternoon and followed the tour being given.

I don't see how you can acknowledge that niddar and co have 'odd views' as you put it and then defend the exhibition, when the whole thing was run by these very people and with the view to push forward those very views.

Out of the 22000 people who attended the exhibitions this is the first "negative" responce ive come accross.

Not true, when I went to the exhibition I made my feelings very clear. Also, the same day I was there there were atleast 4 other people objecting, some visibly upset at what was being said. This was nothing but an attempt to confuse and snatanise Sikhs lacking Gurmat knowledge.Thankfully, many saw through the ridiculous views being presented to them.

i went to a few of the talks, and not at any point did I hear or see anything that said Sikhs are or were Hindus.

I personally witnessed a Mr 'Davinder Singh' (he didn't seem to be wearing a kara funnily enough), state due to the appearance of kirtam naams in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and Darbar Sahib being known as Harmandar Sahib that we can't be seperated from Hinduism. Strangely he said the same about Sikhi and Islam. :s

The most shameless comment was when we were told, as a matter of fact and not an opinion, that the Singh Sabha movement 'diluted' Sikhi, however they neglected to clarify that the overwhelming majority of the Sikh panth would totally oppose such a view. It was totally biased.

Probably one of the best threads this forum has ever had, I remember first reading it all the way back in 2003. Definitely had a profound impact on my Gursikhi journey.