chatanga
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Posts posted by chatanga
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12 hours ago, Prokharkoo84 said:
Thank you brother for replying, I was hoping you along with Khoon Ka Badla would reply.
Rode - I have read the previous threads and I think it will always be a grey area, I beleive he started with the Panth's interests at heart, but he couldnt fill the massive boots of Sant Ji and perhaps he was always going to be judged on this basis.
Bhai Jasvir Singh had the misfortune of being Sant jarnail Singh nephew so everyone assumed he would be just like Sant Ji. Bhai Jasvir Singh is not a bad guy in this at all. His father Jagir Singh elder brother of Sant Ji, became shaheed in bluestar. Bhai Jasvir Singh still does a lot of sewa for the prisoners and families still affected by the Khalistan movement. He has for years before SOPW been heling Sikhs in jail, and helping fight criminal cases against them by the ravan hakumat.
12 hours ago, Prokharkoo84 said:Zaffarwal - thanks for the info, it would be very interesting to know how the involvement of the ISI actually worked during the Sangaarsh. So if you have details on this, please share.
This is only what i heard in a Zaffarwal interview. The ISI's involvement wouldnt really be known by the average man on the street as they are a highly secretive, extremely powerful intelligence agency. the only thigns that we would know about them is what the ISI operatives would reveal or the what people who dealt with them would reveal.
12 hours ago, Prokharkoo84 said:Baba Manochahal - 'accused of making his own fiefdom in Tarntaran by the other leaders' - whats a fiefdom? Also do you know which leaders?
Bittu - I agree the boycott of the elections is a massive reason why things are the way they are now. Do you know much about the rumours about him having Labh Singh and Budhsinghwala killed?
Fiefdom - area under his own personal control treated as his personal "state".
Another one of Bittus biggest blunders and one I find it hard to forgive him for, is the murder of Harminder Singh Sandhu. That was truly a terrible act and one that damaged the movement so much. Election boycott and Harminder Singhs murder were his two biggest mistakes. Terrible mistakes for which the Panth has paid an extremely high price.
12 hours ago, Prokharkoo84 said:You mention vadala, do you mean Gurnam Singh Bandala aka neela tara? We were talking about Virsa Singh Valtoha of the Akali Dal
Yes sorry I meant Valtoha. Dr Gurnam Singh Bundela was a top guy.
12 hours ago, Prokharkoo84 said:Manjit Singh I beleve sold out for a hotel in a ludhiana and a car, which even suprised the GOI has they sent a delegation with unlimited funds to buy him thinking he would be a hard nut to crack judging by who his brother was, however he sold out at the first offer.
Thats the funny thing. It wasn't just Manjit Singh, it was also Harminder Singh Chawla and Rajinder Singh Mehta as well who went to badal dal very easily. Although these latter two work more in the SGPC nowadays. They are still panthic minded though. I guess like a lot of them they saw the current phase of the movement was dying and tried to fit in with society as best as they could.
12 hours ago, Prokharkoo84 said:Also any information on what happened to Santokh Kala? also another guy called Balwinder Singh, cant remeber the last name but he was part of the BTFK but then him and Baba Manochahal had major beef?
Santokh Kala was a Khalistani who turned after the police captured him. He was offered a free role in capturing or killing other Khalistanis. He did kill a few but was killed by Sikhs quite quickly.
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On 07/08/2017 at 1:49 PM, JS79 said:
Darshan singh has been ex communicated. That is a fair punishment is it not.
For starting his own panth? Distorting the treasured practices of the Sikhs for centuries, and being ex communicated is fair?
I bet you were unhappy when that excommunication took place. It must have felt so unfair to you.
On 07/08/2017 at 1:49 PM, JS79 said:My argument was in reg to innocent killings. The main uproar is that dhumma forgave sirsa yet took an innicent life.
Your argument, like those arguments in which you say dhapali is an amazing guy, has no basis. Harnam Singh has not forgiven sirsa in any capacity and he has not taken any life, innocent or not. On the other hand dhadrianwala goaded others into a rally where he then fled in a police car to safety whislt the police opened fire on the crowd, That is the main uproar.
On 07/08/2017 at 1:49 PM, JS79 said:Interesting. These things makes sangat question taksals real motive. Dhumma never opposed sirsa this much!
It is intersting how you defend the missionaries who insulted the Gurus over and over. Your real motive is clear. You never opposed the missionaries insulting the Gurus as much as you opposed Baba Harnam Singh.
On 07/08/2017 at 1:49 PM, JS79 said:We can continue to disown the pakhandis and panth gaddaars we dont have to kill to prevent them from preaching their stuff. We can prevent in simpler ways.
Absolutely. tell dhadhrianwala that his activities have already killed 2 Sikhs. We can prevent this.
On 07/08/2017 at 3:47 PM, BhForce said:Respect to you for accepting that Ragi Darshan Singh did something wrong.
He has only done it half-heartedly. Inside he is still a big supporter of darshan rogi. Its not like he said it of his own accord. This "acceptance" had to be dragged out of him. He's as cunning as the missionary rats he loves.
3 hours ago, JS79 said:Why dont you just openly go and stand shoulder by shoulder with dhumma? Maybe fulfil your gay fantasies there too.
Where do you learn such gand?
Of all the things the missionaries have said about the Gurus, not once have you opposed them. You stand shoulder to shoulder with the likes of "Professor" Sarbjit singh "Khalsa" and dhapali when they tried to distort Guru Sahib's history and claim he was a pervert.
Where do you missionaries learn such gand?
And why are you happy as a donkey rolling round in it?
1 hour ago, singhunit said:I've mentioned here and will mention it again - I'm no fan of any jathebandi and am just a regular guy who follows no one apart from dhan dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji.
You follow no-one apart from Sri Guru Granth Sahib? You have "Singh" in your name don't you? Where in Guru Granth Sahib does it tell you to keep the name "Singh" as part of your name?
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On 06/08/2017 at 11:13 PM, JS79 said:
Oh hello again chatanga!!
Lionhearts? Like the ones who did phulla di barkha on the killers? You mean the gunde who took an innocent life. You say lionheart?
I'm talking about those who talk the walk but soil themselves when it comes to the walk. Or the run actually. There was definitely running to the police car.
On 07/08/2017 at 9:52 AM, Prokharkoo84 said:Rode - another massive grey area, adored by his click and hated badly by others. I do know he owns the building in Jalandhar that was used for the Awaz E Quom paper I believe, this property is now worth millions.
Zaffarwal - people cuss him, but the guy was isolated and ended up in Switzerland, he ran out of options. But does anyone know what his issues with Baba Manochahal were?
Bittu - I have heard the rumour he was responsible for the Shaheedi of Gurjant Singh Budhsinghwala too, as he set the meeting up in Model Town Ludhiana? Also I have heard he was responsible for General Labh Singh too? Either way, hes another one who has done a lot of jail and gave his jawani for the Sangaarsh.
Does anyone know who was responsible for Sukhdev Singh Babbar's Shaheedi? Was it due Gurdeep Singh Sivia getting picked up?
All these grey areas of the Sangaarsh need to be brought up, a lot of lessons to be learnt here and I personally rather have an educated and informed view of what happened rather than look back with rose tinted glasses.
Bhai Jasvir Singh Rode has been discussed many times here.
Zafarwal knew a long time before the others that the movement was failing badly. The reason was the ISI were using the armed movement for their own goals. Zafarwal refused to target Hindus under ISI orders which is why they stopped arms sales to his group. Yes - arms sales - arms that they gave free to the Kashmiris were sold to the Sikhs.
Bittu is a clever guy, very talented but he dropped a clanger over the 1992 elections. This was the main reason for congress govt coming in and destroying Khalistan movement.
Sivia - a UK national was arrested by ravan sena aka Panjab police. Shortly after his arrest major BK men were arrested or killed. He has denied given the police any info.
Bhai Baljit Singh wrote several books on the sangrash one of which was called "ik khooni dahaka" "A bloody decade".
I read it a long time ago. Try reading that for more info.
On 07/08/2017 at 0:10 PM, Prokharkoo84 said:Quote of the day - Baba Manochahal was THE ultimate Singh - 10000%!!!
Manochahal was accused of making his own fiefdom in Tarntaran by the other leaders. But he was politically aware and was fully supporting Maan Akali Dal in 1992 elections before other kharkhoo groups enforced a boycott on the participation in elections. I remember talking about this boycott to a UK MP. He told me that boycotting elections was grave mistake.
On 07/08/2017 at 0:17 PM, Prokharkoo84 said:Valtoha - i was watching an interview of his on Youtube, whilst yeah could say he sold out, he still semms to have that pyar for Sant Ji. He is another one that its easy for us to cuss sat in our homes in the UK Canada etc, but he did a lot in his jawani aswell.
Vadala was one of the main AISSF guys. I dont know whether other know this, but not all AISSF people supported Khalistan as a separate country. Vadala was one of those, but he was very much involved upto around late 1980s I think.
On 07/08/2017 at 2:43 PM, acsap said:Not a single thing from that deal (deal between Rajiv and Longowal) was implemented, so tell me how was this deal good for Sikhs.
gandhi dismissed the deal on longoawal death. it was so convenient for him.
On 07/08/2017 at 2:46 PM, Prokharkoo84 said:Regarding Virsa Singh Valtoha, he mentions in his interview on YouTube about how many cases he was implicated in along with how dangerous the Sarkar considered him to be. If he wasnt locked up during the Sangaarsh he would probs have been killed. He seems to get slated a lot cause of his link with Badal, but other such as Manjit Singh (Shaheed Bhai Amrik Singhs bro) doesnt get much flack.
Mann - wow thats something I have never heard before! I always thought he join the Sangaarsh as a politician quite a while after Bluestar 84, I didnt know he was linked to Sant Ji etc.
Yes Bhai Manjit Singh sided with badal Dal and has achieved nothing of not for the Panth. Harnam Singh sided with Badal and has achieved many things. People forget very quickly. But the worst in my opinion was Harminder Singh Gill (another AISSF main guy who didnt beleive in Khalistan) who went over to the Congress party on the offer of a ticket for election. he survived 1984 and spent time in jail as well. Yet he went to the congress party in order to further his political career.
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On 06/08/2017 at 11:01 PM, JS79 said:
Stop lying abt dhadrianwale. They aint responsible.
Why arent they responsible? If Harnam Singh is responsible for something he had no aware or control over then why is dhadrian wala responsible for something that he was aware about and had conttol over?
On 06/08/2017 at 11:01 PM, JS79 said:Nothing wrong with stories changing. Some stories are told wrongly by elders. We as sikh are allowed to learn. Which i have previously stated.
Sikh history is not stories. It's our life-blood. You have no problem with dhapali and "Professor" Sarnjit Singh "Khalsa" making Guru Sahib out to be some kind of pervert. That's because you beleive its true. To you the value of dhapalis word is greater than Guru Sahibs.
On 06/08/2017 at 11:01 PM, JS79 said:That story was created by taksalis. They tried to blame dhadrianwale. Facts are crystal clear. Blink and rub you eyes and maybe you will see.
Hasn't dhadrianwala been bleating about catching some "mastermind"? What mastermind?
Facts are:
dhadrianwala always sat in the front seat of his blinging audi quattro a4. but on that day for some reason he didn't.
Bhupinder Singh was shot in the back of his head. It would be very unlikey that a person shooting from the side would hit him in the back of the head.
dhadrianwala soiled his clothes.
On 06/08/2017 at 11:01 PM, JS79 said:Hello there? There are THREE bullets shot at bhupinder singh.
But the fatal shot still came from behind.
On 06/08/2017 at 11:01 PM, JS79 said:Youre wrong. Dhadrianwale swop seats in journeys a lot. Course you wouldnt know that because you know nothing about them.
Does he? He was on record as saying that he always sits in the front but he himself asked Bhupinder Singh to sit in the front on this journey.
On 06/08/2017 at 11:01 PM, JS79 said:I am not a darshan singh fan.
You're kidding me!! Someone who has no shame in insulting their guru and listening and sharing insult of their guru can only be a darshan rogi fan. I see that you call him darshan "singh". it's very clear that you are a chela of rogi.
On 06/08/2017 at 11:01 PM, JS79 said:Maybe i have to remind you daily that i am not a missionary. I havent studied there
But you beleive all their lies. So that would make you a missionary supporter. Not once have you spoken against their insults of Guru Sahibs but yet refer to those insulters as great intellectuals.
You are studying there. By listening to their lies and sharing them further, not only are you studying there, but you are actively working for them.
On 06/08/2017 at 11:01 PM, JS79 said:Sikhs follow maharaj.
Yes, you should follow maharaj rather than the likes of dhapali or "Professor" Sarjbit singh "Khalsa".
On 06/08/2017 at 11:01 PM, JS79 said:Nothing wrong with video. Sikhs are allowed different views. So if someone tells a story diff to bhindranwale are we suddenly nindaks?
Bhindranwale is not our Guru. In Guru Granth Sahib there is a line saying : "Gur ki ninda sune na kaan."
Not only are you listening to it, you are also sharing it for others to listen to .
On 06/08/2017 at 11:01 PM, JS79 said:. Harjeet singh ji is an amazing parcharak. Thanks for sharing the video.
Thanks for proiving to the forum that dhapali is more precious to you than Guru Sahib himslef. IIf you had understood the video you would have see that dhapali was trying to distort a story in order to make Guru Sahib out to look like a pervert. The true story shows Guru Sahib in his true light. worship dhapali if you want. You worship darshan rogi who has changed maryada and started his own darshan panth.
On 06/08/2017 at 11:01 PM, JS79 said:Of course id come up with a reply. You seem so intrigued so i dont mind replying to you chatanga. Anything that helps : )
Your replies don't help me. I've enough experience of dealing with missionaries that it doesn't take too long to see their true colours. Your replies helps those who don't know enough about the missionaries to see what you people are really like. That's useful.
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On 03/08/2017 at 2:14 PM, Prokharkoo84 said:
Do you know much about Dhanna Singh from Panthic Commitee and why he left after Sarbat Khalsa and what his role was when he got to the USA?
Dhanna Singh was in hiding for a while as were the original Panthik Committee. They all made their own ways after historic Sarbat Khalsa. Like many people I though that Dhanna Singh had become shaheed but then he surfaced in USA some time after. Don't know anything a bout his activities after he got there.
On 03/08/2017 at 3:40 PM, Dsinghdp said:During the Khalistan movement, Hindus were terrorised in Punjab. Some 400 were murdered.
This was just indian govt propoganda. They made up stories that Hindus were being victimized in Panjab by Sikhs. The conveniently forget that many Sikhs were killed by Hindus and may gurdwaras burnt by Hindus during the Panjabi Suba morcha. They conveniently foget that Taksal paid for a mandir to be built in a Panjab prison.
On 03/08/2017 at 3:53 PM, JS79 said:Also, sant ji listed 17 matte for anandpur da matta. How are we trying to achieve that? Sant ji wanted sikhs to have equal rights. Sant ji gave shaheedi for that!
Sant Ji wanted Sikhs to have their territorial, religious and human rights. He gave his life for it.
On 03/08/2017 at 3:53 PM, JS79 said:We sikhs cannot even give fellow sikhs equal right. Our matteh have become ways to stop gurmat parchar. We have a lot of work to do to impress sant ji. We bend over backwards to stop gurmat yet what about the reason sant ji gave shaheedi.
The only Sikhs that can have equal rights are those who beleive in Sikhi. Those who beleieve in missionary nonsense and darshan rogi, giving them any kind of "equal rights as sikhs" would destroy sikhi. Sant Ji gave his life to keep Sikhi alive. These missionaries are trying their best to destroy Sikhi.
On 03/08/2017 at 3:53 PM, JS79 said:We say we respect sant ji but the true way of respecting is by trying to lead a life that they would approve. Standing up against injustice and evil. Whoever it may be that is causing it.
You dont respect Sant Jarnial Singh. If you did you would never mention them in the same breath as cretins like dhunda and dhapali. How can disrespecting your Guru be approved by Sant Jarnail Singh?
On 03/08/2017 at 3:53 PM, JS79 said:Standing up against injustice and evil. Whoever it may be that is causing it.
Only lionhearts can do that. The others run to the nearest police car.
On 05/08/2017 at 7:31 PM, HarfunMaula said:A few points come to mind.
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The 'social reformist' (samaj sudhaar) activities carried out by the Kharkoos were unnecessary and gave adverse effects to their objective of attaining a sovereign state. These include:
* forcing women (including news anchors) to wear dupattas
* threatening and murdering artists (even if they were vulgar like Chamkila)
* banning the sale of alcohol, tobacco and meat, attacking liquor vendors, barbers, butchers, ...
* disallowing music at weddings
* banning saris, cosmetics for women, ...
Just like any other action it did have positive sides too, the simple marriage ceremonies came with a ban on dowries but enforcing a 'moral code' is not the Sikh way and it alienated not only the non Sikhs but also the 'moderate' Sikhs. - There was an immense amount of infighting among the kharkoos due to various reasons, including theological, personal and territorial disputes. The DDT and AKJ had at times taken to violent ways to enforce their viewpoints during the movement. Sikhs need to learn to put personal differences away and unite against a common enemy as was shown historically by the Misls.
- The intentional targeting of Hindus and families of police officials. While a lot of killings of Hindus were done by the govt under false flag operations to malign the Kharkoo movement, one cannot deny that several Sikhs were deliberately targeting Hindus and the families of police officials. Collateral damage is likely during guerilla warfare but these kind of acts are against our Sikh ideology, no matter what the circumstances are.
At the time this social reform was announced there was opposition to it from many quarters. Two other things to be added to this list are only "11 members of a baraat, and no jeans for females at colleges/universities."
Many at the time saw this as a deflection away from the true poltic goal of the Sikhs and a chance to embroil them in other matters taking the focus and energy away from the issues that mattered most.
Families of police began to be targeted only after ravan sena started to kill relatives of Sikhs mainly under gills rule. It was more of a reaction than action.
On 05/08/2017 at 8:11 PM, JS79 said:Imagine if a thief came to your house and killed your family and tried to stab you. God forbid. What would you do? You would do what you think is best at the time. Maybe you would kill the thief i dont know. Would it be right for me to say 'you could have considered.... this and that'. No of course not. You had to act.
You dont half me me laugh.
9 hours ago, AjeetSinghPunjabi said:Sometimes I wonder if we as a community are in the mess today that we're in because of killing of innocent hindus in 80's
Like you know the stories of khadkoos bringing out hindus from buses and killing them .And hindu murders elsewhere in punjab back then.
No, the mess that we are in todays stems from the loss of the Lahore Darbar, Since 1849, the Sikhs have been sliding downhill and seem to keep on slliding.
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The 'social reformist' (samaj sudhaar) activities carried out by the Kharkoos were unnecessary and gave adverse effects to their objective of attaining a sovereign state. These include:
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On 04/08/2017 at 8:37 PM, JS79 said:
Dhadrianwale are not responsible for the killing of them singhs.
Yes he is. He was the one who called all the Sikhs to gather to protest. Then when the going got tough he ran to the nearest police car to save his own life.
On 04/08/2017 at 8:37 PM, JS79 said:Stop lying.
Lying? You mean like someone who says he never defends "Professor" Sarbjit Singh "Khalsa" but does it all the time? The same somone who makes up stuff about Baba Harnam Singh continously but cannot give one piece of evidence to back it up?
On 04/08/2017 at 8:37 PM, JS79 said:So are you saying bhindranwale are responsible for the killing of all the innocents in 1984?
Sant Jarnail Singh stood by his word to defend Sri Darbar Sahib. Never moved from his bachan once. Yet the same dhadrianwala got all the other Sikhs worked up about about the beadbi of Sri Guru Granth Sahib and then ran to the nearest police car at the first sign of action. You can tell us whether on this occasion he also soiled his kashera.
On 04/08/2017 at 8:37 PM, JS79 said:It is a total diff story so your comparison is ridiculous.
Why is it not comparable? You are hurt at the fact that some taksalis are alleged to have fired the shot that killed Bhupinder Singh. Yet you are not concerned at the fact that dhadrianwala was also responsible for getting 2 Sikhs shot dead by police.
On 04/08/2017 at 8:37 PM, JS79 said:I know the truth hurts by sadly harnam dhumma planned the killing of bhupinder singh. Read the news or his videos or dhadrianwale diwans and you will get a clearer picture of what happened.
Yes because dhadrianwala only tells the truth doesn't he. His stories change every year. Why was it that he ALWAYS sat in the front seat of that gleaming Audi 4X4 but on this occasion when he had never done so befor etold Bhupinder Singh to sit there. It seems very suspicious that the only time dhadrianwala took a back seat the guy in front got shot from someone sitting behind him.
It looks very much like dhadroianwala had the whole murder of Bhupinder Singh planned with the intention of taking the criticism off himself for being responsible for the deaths of 2 Sikhs. It seems very plausible that dhadrianwala has kept the whole thing constant to try and drag someone else down with him.
On 04/08/2017 at 8:37 PM, JS79 said:Then you wonder why i prefer missionaries!
You prefer missionaries because they tell lies. Birds of a feather.
On 04/08/2017 at 8:37 PM, JS79 said:Everything is down to sharda on maharaj.
What sharda do the missionaries have on Maharaj when they have sided with "Professor" darshan rogi in starting his in own panth. its so amusing to see missionaries talk of sharda.
On 04/08/2017 at 8:44 PM, JS79 said:Wow. I am actually speechless.
i' sure you'll survive and then come out with something else to lie about.
Here is a video about your hero dhapali. I would suggest you learn from this. If that's possible.
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On 03/08/2017 at 7:48 AM, singhunit said:
On that note Dhumma is no better, who is he to throw his weight around and order the killing of fellow SIKH BROTHERS. You don't see Bhai Guriqbal Singh behaving like that?
What sikh brothers has Harnam Singh ordered to be killed?
On 03/08/2017 at 2:53 AM, JS79 said:Lazy? Yeah 3 diwans a day is that lazy.
Gurmat knowledge according to what you believe is gurmat? They already do gurmat gyan according to gurbani and what maharaj teach us through gurbani.
Doing a/3 diwan(s) is not exercise for someone. For an orator its an easy job.
On 03/08/2017 at 9:19 AM, JS79 said:You are mistaken by sirsa wala
He also made his form of 'amrit'
Dhumma approved it also.
God help me? How many more lies are you going to post here?
Whilst we are on the subject lets talk about darshan rogi and his form of "amrit".
Which missionary has opposed this rogi ? "Professor" Sarbjit singh "Khalsa"? dhapali?
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24 minutes ago, JS79 said:
You keep talking of how bad missionaries are.
Yes anyone who says what they have about the Gurus are bad in my books.
24 minutes ago, JS79 said:Yet you have not once oppossed dhumma. Interesting.
You haven't opposed the missionaries once. All the things I'v listed you haven't once said that's wrong. Instead you big them up.
What do you want me to oppose Baba Harnam Singh over? He had no part in the killing of Bhupinder Singh. There is no evidence that the fatal shot came from the guys who stopped the car. Rather the evidence shows that the shot came from behind Bhupinder Singh and hit him in the back of the head.
dhadrianwala has used this to keep up his feud with Harnam Singh and divert the attention from himself and his missionary pal panthpreet singh "Khalsa" because of their running away from the morcha that they called themselves and urged people to go to. They urged people to go and protest and then got into police cars and let the police fire at the protestors. 2 Sikhs were killed. Where they any less tha Bhuopinder Singh because they weren't n dhadrianwala jatha?
Why should dhadrianwala get away with that? Didn't these 2 sikh brothers have families?
Why didn't dhapali also mention them?
24 minutes ago, JS79 said:How do you know was you in taksal with sant sundar singh ji? I didnt want to say this but of course things have changed. Its like chinese whispers. There was minimal literature about taksal before sant gurbachan singh ji. Singhs did what the mahapursh said. What do you honestly believe baba deep singh was like todays taksalis following manmat?
No i wasnt in Taksal with Sant Sunder Singh Ji, but we know because Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji wrote his Gurmat Parkash Darpan based on the teachings and practices of the Taksal after studying under Sant Sunder Singh.
24 minutes ago, JS79 said:What do you honestly believe baba deep singh was like todays taksalis following manmat?
Say it as many times as you like. Unless you provide specific examples there is no manmat to speak of.
24 minutes ago, JS79 said:Listen, to summarise dhumma is making singhs become shaheed whereas sant jarnail singh ji was the one giving shaheedi. Theyre opposites. If you cannot understand that taking an innocent life is wrong then what point is there in me giving you more examples. You may continue bashing missionaries it makes no difference to anyone ji.
Let's add to this summary. Lets assume that Harnam Singh is guilty for this momentarily. Harnam Singh is responsible for the death of one Sikh person. dhadrianwala is responsible for the deaths of two. So dhadhrianwala is responsible for double the amount of Sikh lives lost than Harnam Singh. So let's keep this in perspective. Let's deal with dhadrianwale first and then we can deal with Harnam Singh.
24 minutes ago, JS79 said:Huh? Oh so we only believe what is in writing?
Well that's just it. You don't beleive it do you. You doubt Dasam Granth.
24 minutes ago, JS79 said:I believe everything in guru granth sahib ji obviously. I do not believe in the stories where manmat people have tried to degrade guru gobind singh ji. Listen to some missionary katha and you will understand ji....
But "Professor" Sarbjit Singh "Khalsa" has insulted Guru Gobind Singh by trying to distort a sakhi from Guru Sahibs childhood. To you "Professor" Sarbjit Singh "Khalsa" is a hero. You have supported him and other missionaries here nonstop.
Please stop lying to us.
24 minutes ago, JS79 said:God help the likes of you.
Thanks. Although I'm certain in our case you are in more need of help. Help to tell the truth for start.
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On 03/08/2017 at 1:47 AM, JS79 said:
Well done for attaching the doctored video.
What about the video you presented of Baba Harnam Singh talking about Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth. The text itself says this is a translation taken from a particular part of a Puran. Baba Harnam Singh, as anyone who has read Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth Sahib knows that this is fact, yet you presented that video which was circulated by the missionaries to try and perpetuate a lie that Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth is nothing but a complete re-writing of Hindu texts.
The only result of missionaries and their supporters sharing sharing that video is to show how shallow their intelligence is.
18 hours ago, JS79 said:Sant ji would have took care of dhumma and all the taksalis who oppose gurmat.
You repeat this many times but yet have not given one fact of where taksal have done anything different from the times of Sant Sunder Singh or what they are doing that opposes gurmat.
19 hours ago, JS79 said:Maharaj matha tekked to guru granth sahib.
How do yo know? Where has Maharja given this in writing?
19 hours ago, JS79 said:I 100% agree to dasam bani but not the hindu stories mixed in.
What Hindu stories? Again this is another often repeated line/ Exactly what stories are you talking about?
Do you agree to any of the Hindu stories mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib?
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If you have any proof of Harnam Singh doing so then bring it.
Its more lies, First you said Taksal do rituals. But no proof. then You say Harnam Singh paid to have someone killed. No proof provided. Then you say Harnam Singh changed things at taksal. Still no proof. Now you moving onto sarsa wala, and hey presto! No proof again.
True missionary supporter. Lies lies and nothing else.
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As I said Harnam Singh has not forgiven him. He doesn't have any kind of authority to do that. Which line of gurmat are you with? The one that says Bhai Lehna took gurgaddi of Giuru Nanak by force? The same one you couldnt bring yourself to oppose ?
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On 01/08/2017 at 6:33 PM, JS79 said:
I am not going to back up sarbjit singh because i have not listened to every recording of his.
Why shouldnt I call a liar a liar? You are a liar. You have posted lies on this forum.
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3 minutes ago, JS79 said:
Khalsa? Yes we are proud to be khalsa so why not write it.
Proud to be Khalsa? How ? By siding with those who insulted your Guru ? Some kind of Khalsa that is.
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2 minutes ago, JS79 said:
You didnt drag it out of me. You asked me specifically. So i replied.
Why did I need to ask several times, then?
2 minutes ago, JS79 said:So i replied. As we do.
As "we" do? So you are a missionary then. I dont know why you dont have enough faith in your missionary professors to keep denying it. You obviously havent got enough faith in the Gurus.
4 minutes ago, JS79 said:I openly support the majority of dhundas parchar, dhapallis amazing parchar etc.
You don't openly support it. First of all you said you hadn't heard much of "Professor" Sarbjit Singh "Khalsa's" parchaar, now you saying you openly support it.
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18 minutes ago, JS79 said:
One thing? Theres countless. He uses sant on his name willingly. He kills innocent parcharaks. He talks rudely and targets gurmat da parchar. He has stopped kirtan classes taking place there.
Using Sant on name willingly is a crime? Professor Sarbjit Singh Khalsa uses "Professor" and "Khalsa" on his name willingly. Bhai Panthpreet Singh Khalsa uses "Bhai" and "Khalsa" on his name willingly. Harnam Singh has not killed anyone. "He talks rudely"? Like dhadrianwale then? what gurmat parchar was dhadrian wala doing when he was calling Harnam Singh baggar billa? No kirtan classes have been stopped anywhere. Stop lying. Try and be a Sikh. Of the Guru that is, not your lying missionary professors with "Khalsa" added to their name.
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Yes, the same Gyani Gurpreet Singh who's presence by itslef scares the missionaries.
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14 minutes ago, JS79 said:
I have not said anywhere that i believe guru ji ate halal. So you stop lying. I said nothing even close to that. Infact when you specifically asked me look at my responses above in the 4th paragraph i have said i disapprove that.
Yes but it had to be dragged out of you. You never volunteered it and only said it when others talked of getting you banned.
14 minutes ago, JS79 said:A panth dardi would not forgive sarsa saadh!
Another lie from the missionaries.
Come on where the details of changes made to taksal by Baba Harnam Singh?
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25 minutes ago, CHaamCHrick said:
So, you are suggesting that we are better off listening to kathas and interpretations of the Gurbani done by sampardas and taksalls? I wasn't aware of the extent of damage these missionaries are causing to the Panth. They are not really doing any favors to the kom then, are they? They should keep their personal views to themselves and not verbalise them in public especially before the sangat! I have never heard this before, it is so shocking!
I have a better picture now. I can now see why they are always fighting with each other. So, why are you not so keen on taksalls? Who do you follow then? Anyway, thanks a lot for clarifying this mess for me. By the way, I don't really watch their videos that much anyway because i find them very difficult to understand, as they speak very fast. I read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji online with english translations.
Learning about Gurmat, Guru granth Sahib, Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth etc doing katha is not an easy job. It is a very hard job to learn about Gurmat before talking about it to an audience.
The gurmat gian missionary college do a 2 year course before letting our their people to do parchaar. 2 YEARS!
But the Taksals will take you through around 8 texts on spirituality and such before they even teach you about Guru Granth Sahib. Every Taksali has to go through 5 years of reading Guru Granth Sahib and studying katha before they are allowed to sit at an Akhand Paath. Their training to become parcharaks is even longer.
To become a parcharak from a taksal takes about a decade. Compare that with a 2 year course where these missionaries learn "25 shabads". I would rather listen to someone from the Taksals or other samprdais where immense study and tests go on rather than someone who has learned 25 shabads from Guru Granth Sahib over 2 years and has won the appelation of "Gyani".
Why don't these missionaries ever come before taksalis? Because they know they cannot match the Taksal in terms of Gyan. Why did BHai Panthpreet Singh Khalsa run from Gyani Gurpreet Singh California in Italy and Germany? Which did the great missionary leader harnek singh neki lock the gates of the gurdwara he owns so he didnt have to debate Gyani Gurpreet Singh?
37 minutes ago, CHaamCHrick said:I have never heard this before, it is so shocking!
It's very shocking. It's very bad. It makes me angry just to listen or see what they have written.
these are the only ones I can remember at the moment. Jonny101 knows more than me about their false teachings. Hopefully he is still on this forum.
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1 hour ago, JS79 said:
Funny how you say that. Atleast follow guru granth sahib ji first. Gurbani says over and over again, stand by the truth. We dont listent to a word guru granth sahib ji tell us. We cant even speak up against evil and save our panth yet we get offended when someone goes against jathabandi stereotypes. Amusing.
Of course i do not. I have prem for guru pita ji. I respect their bani. We dont need hinduism in our religion. I am not the only non missionary that believes that. I would never insult gurbani am i stupid. Of course you guys believe the hindu stories as gurbani.
Its funny how you talk about standing up for the truth.
We dont need hinduism in our religion? What hinduism in there in our religion?
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1 hour ago, JS79 said:
It is not up to you to label what is a lie and what is not. A lier to me is a mahapursh to you. Lol
It is up to me what I label a lie. I have that right. So you do you. You have the right to beleive what you feel is right. Any person who doesn't beleive in something will say so, and any person who feels something is a lie will say so. You beleive that Guru Nanak Maharaj ate halal meat at Mecca. I don't. I beleive it is a lie and have said so on mnay occasions here. You haven't said it once, so it confirms that you agree with it. A lier to me is a mahapursh to you, yes?
1 hour ago, JS79 said:No my disapproval is he does manmat. He follows and encourages manmat at his dera.
OK, tell one thing that Harnam Singh has done different from the times of Sant Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale?
Now remember you have brought this up. Just like you brought up the missionaries and then refused to answer my questions about them. So either answer truthfully. I'm actually laughing as I type this. The truth? From Missionaries?
1 hour ago, JS79 said:Maharaj knows how much faith i have. I do not care how much faith you think i have or have not. I hope maharaj give us all faith and stronger faith.
Maharaj? Are you talking about Guru Sahib? The same Guru Sahib that your leaders have insulted time and time again? How would beleiving that Guru Arjan Dev Ji fainted on the hot plate give you stronger faith?
1 hour ago, JS79 said:Yes there is a time and place. I obviously disapprove people saying maharaj ate meat. And so forth. There are endless topics i disapprove. I didnt know this was the umbrella thread in which i am expected to write down each belief of mine. I would rather not drag missionaries down when other things need to be dealt with like gursikhs innocent lives.
Wow. So some of the posters here calling for you to be banned has finally made you open your mouth. Who asked you to write down each beleif of yours? I asked you specific questions, which you see as some kind of umbrella thread? And then you wouldnt drag missionaries down? You would rather suport them and their views, thats been apparent from time .
1 hour ago, JS79 said:I havent opposed the missionaries? You havent opposed bhupinder singhs killings by taksal.
Because Taksal are not responsible for Bhupinder Singh's death. The people who stopped the car were not acting on orders of Baba Harnam Singh. Nor do we know for certain it was their shot that killed Bhupinder Singh. As I said earlier, how could they have shot him ht eback of the head if they would be facing him. You never answered did you.
Having said that it was wrong for those guys to go there in the first place. But it's certainly wrong to say that they definitely killed Bhupinder Singh in light of circumstances surrounding the event.
1 hour ago, JS79 said:I have always spoken my mind. You dont know me at all.
But that isn't the truth though is it? Speaking you mind means nothing. What I do know about you, is that being missionary is more important than preventing insults of the Gurus.
1 hour ago, JS79 said:Okay. I need to go into detail then i guess. Back then Taksal did things, rituals like jyot, but they did them genuinely. The sharda for maharaj was above. They did certain things without following the ritual behind them. They didnt make the petty rituals the maryada. They didnt say you have to wear a gol pagh and no pajami. If someone did not follow the maryada the puratan singhs didnt go militant on them. Taksal was perfect. As in Taksal had the right morals and the aim was panthic!! They gave shaheedi! Taksal was a panthic jathebandi. Sant ji were panthdardi.
They did rituals but did them genuinely? have you heard yourself? You missionaries think that Gyan came into the panth when you r missionary college opened. Before that for the last 500 odd years Sikhs had no gyan.
1 hour ago, JS79 said:i. dhumm is not panthdardi and nor does he have his life in gurmat .
How do you know Harnam Singh isn't panth dardi? What has he done not to have his life in gurmat? Those missionaries who said that "Bhai Lehna took gurgadi by force" have their lives in gurmat for you don't they? Is that being panth dardi?
1 hour ago, JS79 said:You feel someone is closer to guru ji if they oppose missionary stories then? Just by Supporting the ancient mahapurshs and preach rituals?
I feel someone is closer to guru ji if they make me feel a stronger connection with guru ji myself. I feel if someone makes me feel that way and gives me that boost and helps us live in the present then to me that is a guru ji da asli singh. Not by telling me how mahaan a killer is.
So you feel closer to Guru Nanak by beleiving that Guru Sahib ate meat at mecca? Beleving that Shaheedan da Sirtaj Guru Arjan Patshah fainted on the hot plate brings you closer to Guru Sahib? How does that give you a boost?
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31 minutes ago, JS79 said:
Maharaj can make missionaries see more sense. There is more hope there becsuse they are on the right track they have the right mindset. That is what i am saying.
Did you even read what wrote above about the missionaries?
Yet you have not ONCE said anything to show your objection to it. So you must approve of it then, because you know something? Your silence is deafening!!!
31 minutes ago, JS79 said:Dhumma forced himself to be jathedar.
Be a Sikh. Stop telling lies.
31 minutes ago, JS79 said:Nevertheless, it is a panthic maryada. Get over it.
I was never under it, to get over it. What i won't over is your approval of missionary lies about our Gurus, but your disapproval of Harnam Singh for no reason other than he opposes Dhadrianwala.
31 minutes ago, JS79 said:What would you prefer? Should we all follow taksals hindu maryada
I would prefer that you objected to the missionaries saying Guru Nanak ate halal meat at Mecca. Cos that is way more objectionable than Taksal rehat maryada. Why talk of rehat maryada when you clearly have no faith in your own Guru?
36 minutes ago, JS79 said:I am a SIKH.
Of who? the Missionary college? You can't be a Sikh of Guru Nanak and then condone the nindya of Guru Nanak done by missionaries.
36 minutes ago, JS79 said:Should we hate on those who question the hindu stories mixed in dasam granth?
Good to see you speaking your mind for once. "Hindu stories mixed in Dasam Granth"? You are a missionary supporter no doubt.
It doesnt matter where the story comes from as long as there is a viable lesson for that story. Next you will want to remove those lines in Sri Guru Granth Sahib that Hindu historical or religious events. That what the missionaries want.
36 minutes ago, JS79 said:Then again. After each and every response of yours you seem more adamant to try and prove me wrong. By all means go ahead and bash my views and call me rss and this and that.... it makes no difference to me because to me. Taksal was once perfect and it has now gone chaotic and hopeless.
Once perfect? Nothing has changed in taksal praxis since the last 80 odd years at least when more things were documented. With the one face you say "taksals hindu practices" and then with another face say "Taksal was once perfect". How many more faces do you have?
43 minutes ago, JS79 said:Then again. After each and every response of yours you seem more adamant to try and prove me wrong.
No, no, NO! I am not trying to prove anything about you. I had my suspicions about you from the time I read your post (yesterday) and in that time, slowly mind you, you have started to expose your true feelings. I have asked you questions about the missionaries yet you haven't asnwered them or objected to any of the missionary activities. Yet you claim they are closer to the Guru! What a joke!
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17 hours ago, jkvlondon said:
bro
it is true that EVERY Singh rejected the jagir even Kapur SIngh because they didn't recognise the power of the Mughals above Guru ji and had no desire for anything other than Guru ji's charan? Until Kapur SIngh was promised by sangat that it would not interfere with his sewa of the panth he accepted the jagir.
If EVERY Singh had rejected the jagir, then how on earth did it end up being accepted? There were some who as you say didn't want the jagir because they they want to recognise the hakumat of the Moghals. Then there were others who said that short-term peace with the moghals will be to our benefit. The Sikhs had been skirmishing with Zakria for years and he was fed up of the constant warfare. He needed a break from it, but the Dal Panth also needed to recuperate themselves. This jagir came on the back of a anti-Sikh jehad in Panjab. It also brought in much needed money with which the Sikhs could strengthen their army. In the end the pros outweighed the cons and the Sikhs accepted the benefits of taking up Zakria's offer was better then rejection.
And remember that it was a Singh of the Guru who brought theproposal from Zakria? Does that mean we shouldn't remember this Singh in our Ardas now?
17 hours ago, jkvlondon said:nawab Kapur Singh achieved so much because of his full faith in Guru ji and his khalsa soch not because of a jagir, he fought against Zakhiriya's forces prior to and afterwards, only two years was there a truce in that 2 years Nawab Kapur Singh organised sikh forces into the Buddha and Taruna dal then later still the Taruna into 5 smaller jathe.
Well there you have to look at what you have written Sis. We know and call Nawab Kapur Singh by his title. No Sikh calls him Kapur Singh, The jagir didn't make any difference to Nawab Kapur Singh as a Sikh or to his Sikhi. But it sure gave him the opportunity to organise the Dal Panth into an even more effective fighting force.
And in the end I'm sure those Sikh who were against it would have realised that they were better off having accepted the moghals offer.
17 hours ago, jkvlondon said:He did not get fooled once that the governing bodies were benign benefactors ..
Do you seriously think that Harnam Singh doesn't know what Badals are?
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18 hours ago, JS79 said:
Thing is can support who i want without being middionary.
Course you can. I'm not a taksali and I don't support Taksal over everything. But where I do support or disagree with them I'm open about it. You aren't. It's very easy to find the objectionable comments by Professor Sarabjit Singh Khalsa in YouTube.
18 hours ago, JS79 said:The 5 singh story is the story about sharda.
I know what it is, but you were starting with 1 Singh then moved onto 5 Singhs.
18 hours ago, JS79 said:I think you were being sarcastic listing kps gill etc.
Well you were the one who said that being sabat soorat makes one a Sikh.
18 hours ago, JS79 said:There is hope with missionaries. If they have made mistakes there is hope.
Hope with the missionaries?
What hope is there with the Head Professor of their college who wrote that Guru Nanak Dev Ji ate halal meat at Mecca ?
What hope is there for the Missionary College whose Professor said that "Guru Nanak hid in bushes for 3 days in River Bein at Sultanpur Lodhi so he could work out his next step."?
What hope is there for the Professor of this college who wrote that Guru Nanak never gave gurgaddi to anyone and Bhai Lehna took it by force?
I don't what kind of ability you have that, you can say these people can change.
18 hours ago, JS79 said:People who do will know they promote akal takht maryada. That is A panthic maryada.
The Panthic Maryada was never accpeted by the Panth. It was forced on the panth as a temporary maryada that was still to be raitified. Well guess what? The SGPC haven't been able to ratify it in over 70 years. How could 4 people sit in a meeting and decide the maryada and then implement it by force?
18 hours ago, JS79 said:Atleast it gets us all on onr platform!
But it hasn't though has it? We are not on one platform. We never WERE on one platform.
18 hours ago, JS79 said:Dhumma wants taksal maryada at akal takht
Be a Sikh ! Be. A. Sikh.
Stop lying.
18 hours ago, JS79 said:We could continue this but yout beliefs wont change mine and mine wont change yours.
And that is the tragedy. I'm open about my beleifs and willing to discuss them with you, but you are still under a cloud of secrecy about the missionaries.
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41 minutes ago, JS79 said:
Either you do not seek answers but want to prove dhumma is good, or you are genuinely not getting anything we are saying.
I'm not here to prove anything. I say it as it is. But I suspect that you are not being honest here. I have asked several times already. Yet you like to insult others.
41 minutes ago, JS79 said:Point of the 5 singh sakhi, the moral is that we should seek to do darshan of maharaj through tyar bartyar chardikala singhs if we wish.
OK, so its gone from 1 Singh to 5 Singh now has it?
41 minutes ago, JS79 said:You said kps gill is sabat surat. I made the comparison why your response is random.
You said that Sikhs being sabat soorat is the best. Iasked you if sabat soorat people like i listed were included.
41 minutes ago, JS79 said:Your remark about being humble. We can br humble and have anakh and courage to speak up. Being humble doesnt mean keeping your hesd down and being apologetic.
Where is your anakh concerning the missionaries? You are very observant of what Baba harnam Singh does yet asleep when it comes to what the missionaries are doing. Or maybe you are supporting them but are afraid of being open about it?
41 minutes ago, JS79 said:The best to me are the ones who are above the jathebandis and break free from the rituals. The best are who put panth at the heart of everything and live according to gurbani. Not according to personal maryadas.
OK, so where does the maryada at parmeshardwar come from? Is that a personal maryada?
Baba harnam Singh DID put the panth before everything, and you insulted him.
42 minutes ago, JS79 said:Badal came to Dhumma? Doesnt look like it.
Well that tells me how little you know. yet you giving it so much.
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Dhunda VS Dandrianwala
in WHAT'S HAPPENING?
Posted
dhadrianwala has become a missionary mouthpeice. he is not doing any gurmat parchar. Watch this video and see how he is aping his missionary lovers.
No-one is what they were pre 84. Even the average Sikh in the pend isn't the same.