chatanga

This network of sikh organisations is run by that lord singh . he is a rabid anti dasam granth campaigner, . his wife is the vice head of the world sikh council run from malaysia which has been at the forefront of anti-Dasam Granth movement and lies and false propoganda against Dasam Granth.

Is that why you have posted this here bj singh ? Are you are supporter of them because you like to share their programs on this forum a lot.

On a side note it was good to see on the Sikh Channel recently, the Africa Sikh program celebrating Guru Gobind Singh Ji's birth, contained lots of singing and quotes from Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth. This lord singh tried to get the "Sikh Council of Africa" to part with this granth and posed a series of questions to them. I contacted lord singh to discuss these 12 odd points with him, and he couldn't even answer my question on his first point. The I also highlighted the error in his publication. Then he stopped responding. And he calls himself an authority on Sikhi.

On 30/06/2017 at 1:44 AM, shastarSingh said:

Many people believe that 'adhakk' is a new invention but there is a puratan bir of Dasam Granth called Bhai Daya Singh bir Aurangabad. It contains the great bani 'bhagauti astotar' and it contains the 'adhakk'.

Whether adhakwas used in Sanskrit/HIndi/Brij writings I don't know, but it is definitelyt used in Persian. Persian language and script came to India alongwith the Moghals.

Thanks for the photo. I had heard of a granth of Guru Gobind Singh ji bearing the titile "Yudh Prabandh Granth."  This is the first time I have seen a photo of it.

On 29/05/2017 at 3:41 PM, genie said:

I was reading articles recently regarding how the Russian soviet KGB had deeply penetrated the Indian state from 1950s onwards basically since the time of Nehru. British domestic intelligence agency MI5 also had an office stationed in India since 1950s and has had a close relationship with India since its formation in 1947 but they werent as close as the KGB where.

In the 1950s and 1960s when the Cold War flamed up, both Russia and USA were trying to get countries to align to them in the event of hostilities and for trade purposes. Many countries did align to one or the other, but those that didn't became known as the "non-aligned bloc" and the foremost or leader of this bloc was India. India prided itself on being non-aligned as well as the leader of the bloc. Only in 1971 after Pakistan massacred over a million of it's own citizens (some put it as high as 3 million),in Bengal, forcing India to take action and incurring the dsipleasure of USA did India align itself to USSR.

According to "The Blood Telegram" by Gary Bass (which is a must read for anyone interested in geo-politics of yester-year) India was very reluctant to join with the USSR, and only joined after being panicked by the sight of USA warships sailing up the Bay of Bengal. The USA presidency had sided with Pakistan and supplied military hardware to them and were firmly on their side in this conflict. Whilst India never officially joined the war, it was known to everyone that they were supporting the Mukti Bahini. The USA in order to intimidate India had it's warships sail from the Pacific to the Bay of Bengal. It worked and India feared a US attack in support of Pakistan. This drove them to publically align with Russia. Even then there were people in the Indian govt who were just as fearful of the USSR as they were of US. There were of course some who were individually subscribing to the USSR socialist agenda.

Personally, I don't think it's true that the KGB had any kind of influence in India prior to the 1970s.

On 27/05/2017 at 11:07 AM, Mahakaal96 said:

When Guru Gobind Singh ji Maharaj was writing Charitrokhayaan, sitting on banks of Satluj, ..

That is a very interesting article. Thanks for sharing it. Can you please tell us the source.

I also hope you have no qualms about me c and p ing it in sikhawareness forum.

6 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

These so called Jagrook Sikhs have even opposed Ranjit SIngh Dandrianwala in Vancouver when he was a Sant but now support him since he is now playing their tune.

They even threw eggs at him. God how short his memory is!

16 hours ago, BhForce said:

I would love to see somebody confront these wayward elements of AKJ UK with these solid facts, and see whether they want to denounce Bhai Randhir Singh ji, or Rattan Singh Jaggi, one or the other.

I don't know if the AKJ have some central authority bu tif they do ,they should be looking at what some of their UK counterparts are doing. And Germany as well, as they supported Prof Darshan Singh on his tour there. I don't know if they changed their stance on him after his new panth fiasco in US.

16 hours ago, BhForce said:

BTW, the only reason Dr. Rattan Singh Jaggi wrote a thesis against the Dasam Granth Sahib is that someone in his department had already written a pro-Dasam thesis, and his advisor forced him write to one against it!

The story is that Jaggi was a beleiver in Dasam Granth and was invited to submit a thesis for his PHD. He wanted to do one on Dasam Granth but was told one had already been done, and he should write a PHD on why this granth was not the work of Guru Sahib. Jaggi should have have more faith in his Guru than any desire for a worldy education title. PHD is what compared to Sikhi? Guru Harkrishan Sahib broke the hankar of a Pandit by getting a mute uneducated person to do arth of Geeta. We should learn a lesson from this.

17 hours ago, Jonny101 said:

But then I thought why are all the missionaries supporting this calendar? Why are they inviting purewal to their conferences? I thought there must be something wrong because missionaries only support something like this when it is against Sikhi. And after doing my own research I realized Nanakshahi aka Purewal calendar is a fraud being forced upon the Sikh Panth by these heretics.

Not only these heretics but also elements from the AKJ are supporting these snakes in the UK. The panjab Times, an AKJ mouthpiece is serialising Rattan Singh jaggi's thesis on Sri Dasme Patshahs Granth sahib. Some comments in panjab times from akj leaders show outright support for gandpreet and his snakes.

3 minutes ago, PokeYourPinealGland said:

i only study from Guru Granth Sahib.

Yes MrSingh you say this but then come out with :

4 minutes ago, PokeYourPinealGland said:

maybe its those parts of dasam granth that include pornography?

4 minutes ago, PokeYourPinealGland said:

i still wonder why it used to be called bachitar natak first

Why are you wondering this if you study only from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

21 minutes ago, Jonny101 said:

and is now doing great Seva in defending Dasam Granth against these heretics.

And we need to follow BHai Gurpreet Singh's example.

13 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

but I also know from RSS parchar for their tranining camps that they do go heavy on training in Dasam Granth to manipulate sangat into believing hindu devi devta pooja is jehaz for sikhs

The RSS actually quote more from SGGS than they do from Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth Sahib. Guru Granth mentions "Ram" "Hari" "Ishwar" and these are the lines they use. There is very little/nothing  in Sri Dasme Patshah's granth that RSS can use in terms of manipulation.

18 minutes ago, PokeYourPinealGland said:

i do wonder if the proponents and opponents of dasam granth have thoroughly studied the teachings of Guru Granth Sahib ji, and then compared the thought process of the two and see what our guru says versus what dasam granth says....probably unlikely.

Yea that has been happening since 1708. Until about 100 years ago, there was no problem. Then some foolish Singh Sabha extremists starting doubts part of Sri Dasme Patshah's Granth and then moved onto Sri Guru Granth Sahib. You need to study more Sheikhyobooty.

1 hour ago, jkvlondon said:

wasn't this gurpreet dudi a RSS hireling I've seen him in his mona roop definitely not a sikh

NO, his family have been Sikhs for generations and doing sewa for decades. Bhai Gurpreet Singh did used to have haircut but starting to keep his kes around 10 years ago, and became active in parchar. His whole family are kirtanis but his mind was more focused on katha. His proper Mama Ji is Gurmeet Singh Shaant. Famous kirtani.

I was fooled by missionary lies as well initially, as I really thought that Bhai Gurpreet Singh was actually Neeraj Sharma who had become a Sikh. I asked someone who personally knows him and they told me the truth. "RSS" is the more current label thrown at anyone and everyone who has opposing views unfortunately. A few decades ago, it was "congress agent".

21 hours ago, DhadrianwaleZindabad said:

Akalifauj Ji - if you are such a Singh Soorma - then don't run away from debating me on any topic that you disagree with me about. I have never heard of Sikhs being too cowardly to justify why and what they believe in or being scared to debate. You are the first!

He isn't the first. You beat him by a length of 2 years.

On 21/05/2017 at 6:47 AM, DhadrianwaleZindabad said:

DDT cannot continue violence against GurSikhs

Gursikhs dont tell people that naam japna is tota ratan.

Gursikhs dont tell others that sarovars are just pools of water and that Sachkhand Sri HariMandir Sahib is just a building.

Gursikhs don't give siropas to those who claim that Guru Nanak Dev Ji would have to learn how to use a mobile phone fi he were to be born today.

Gursikhs don't others that that naam simran is useless because it never helped ward off the attack in 1984.

Gursikhs don't sit next to those that say or think these things.

Only cockroaches say and thinki these things, and they get squashed. And guess what kind of person supports those who support those who say these things against Sikhi.

21 hours ago, DhadrianwaleZindabad said:

I am willing to donate $1,000 to any accredited Sikh charity of your choice if you are willing to be a man

A man? I have been asking you for over 2 years to given ONE piece of evidence to substantiate your claim that DT canvassed for the Congress in 1980 elections. When are you going to be a man?

On 26/09/2013 at 11:39 AM, chatanga said:

Do you do Kirtan?

Why not develop your knowledge of a single raag and become a master of that raag?

There are many simple raags, bhairo, bilawal, ect and more complex ones, ramkali, gujri.

You will have the comfort of knowing that at least you can perform kirtan in a raag, and help to infuse life into a dying tradition in the panth.

On 11/09/2013 at 11:14 AM, chatanga said:

There is a topic trending of the beadbi of Saroops in London.

This is a serious topic that needs to be addressed in the wider sangat.

Who can take on this sewa ?

1. To inform general sangat about what Guru Granth Sahib is.

2. How Guru Granth Sahib is to be kept.

3.If Saroop gets birdh or ang gets damaged, what and where can we get it repaired.

4.Agan Bhet of Guru Granth Sahib should only be a last resort.

5. Gurdwaras and Individuals with Guru Granth Sahib, should be requested to make checks on their saroops, to check any deterioration before it escalates more. Better still, check them yourselves.

6. Gurdwaras need to get a balance between the saroops they hold and the frequency of functions held.

7. Find out what the Gurdwara does with birdh saroops. Another thing that occurred to me, is that money men are making cash dollars selling the saroops, they must be making cash dollars in doing the agan bhet of them as well.

Who can take on this sewa in their local area?

If you do, please share any finding you have.

On 26/09/2013 at 11:46 AM, chatanga said:

A Sikh professor has been attacked and injured by a gang in New York, USA.

His repsonse? An invitation to the youths to come to the Gurdwara and see what Sikhs really are.

What an excellent idea! Why not be proactive? invite the local schools in your area, to visit your local gurdwara and tell them what Sikhs are.

On 12/10/2013 at 3:45 PM, chatanga said:

Did you know there are many Sikh artefacts being sold in the UK on auctions and such, why not see if your Gurdwara might be interested in buying some items to make a historical exhibition?

And these!

On 08/09/2013 at 2:52 PM, chatanga said:

Why not look at one of the Guru's, and make a in depth research into his life? You have 10 glorious examples to choose from.

Bump. For 2017.

On 07/09/2013 at 0:26 PM, chatanga said:

Sikh history can be divided into 5 periods:

1.The Guru Period 1469-1708

2.The Dal Khalsa 1708-1799

3.The Sikh Raaj 1800-1849

4.The British Raaj 1849-1947

5. Partition and after 1947-present

Of course these 5 main periods will still have further specific divisions in them.

Brothers and sisters, why not take a particular period, and focus on that for personal interest and specialise in that time period?

Or take a particular event, person, from these periods and learn all about that, from every source available and specialise in that?

That is not to say, neglect the others, but to become experts on particular strands of Sikh history.

Then why not in some future time, share that expertise with the wider Sikh community?

Take the example of Gurinder Singh Mann, who has devoted himself to learning about Dasam Granth and other less well known scriptures. Now after years of intense research on specific subjects, he is doing an amazing job sharing his research with the world.

YOU can be the next Gurinder Singh Mann.

Bump. For 2017.

On 06/09/2013 at 10:50 AM, chatanga said:

Just an idea I had, and I hope these words can express it, but when I look around at younger Sikhs today, those who follow Sikhi, to any extent seem to be into everything and anything Sikhi.

I was thinking about this, cos I have been like this in my younger days, but now have realised that there are so many areas to work in, for the betterment of the panth, that it is impossible to do every one. Rather than be a jack of all trades and expert in none, i made a decision to look at what things in the panth can be improved and do sewa specifically for that.

So i made a decision to work on 2 main projects only for the future, whilst supporting any others i can.

Since I have been doing it, i have felt that there has actually been progress, and would like to impress on the Sikhs here that maybe there could be an issue(s) that they feel strongly about and devote themselves to that practically and prioritise that.

Here are some areas in which attention is required, please feel free to add others:

Sewa in your local gurdwara, ie specifically,langar, education, community awareness

Gurmat Sangeet

Shastarvidiya

SIkh heritage around the world, esp Pakistan, and certain states in india

SIkh manuscripts, which are rotting/hidden away, which could be brought before world-wide sangat, and translationed into english

Human Rights

Fundraising

Charity work

Sikh political issues in the western world on community or national scale

Important annual events in the Sikh calendar

Sikhi camps

Forgotten traditions within the panth

International world days (examples of this are world literacy day, sept, and world book day in march)

With some of these people who are reluctant to do sewa for the panth, because of their personal commitment to their Sikhi, (meaning they may not be keeping kes etc) there are still areas in which they can still provide sterling assistance to the Panth.

Bump. For 2017.

We need to educate ourselves to educate others. We have a undue reliance on others to teach us and others. We have to teach ourselves to teach.

In the western world usually we do not have the time to learn Gurmat, history, philosophy upto the standards/depths of those preachers from Panjab. They spend a lot of time learning. For us to be able to get over that problem is to consider taking one aspect of Sikhi, and developing that to a high standard and then teaching others.

Like Gurinder Singh Mann has done with Dasam Granth etc.

In the above topic I made some years ago, I said that as individuals we should be concentrating on individual specifics especially if we are constrained by time. It makes more sense to to become knowledgeable in one aspect of Sikhi and to then teach that.

Being excommunicated doesn't seem to count for much these days, and not many are apparently scared by it. Within their own circles they have absolutely no fear.

16 hours ago, Preeet said:

Vaheguru ji Ka Khalsa
Vaheguru ji Ki Fateh ji

I read Bhai ``Himmat Singh Ji - Phandak (The hunter ("Biyaad") who captured "Chattarbhuj Panchhi Bhagwan")``, but who was Phandak/Biyaad?

If oim not mistaken he was the one who killed Krishan.

14 hours ago, 13Mirch said:

Can you provide the exact references as to where this is written in the Gurbilas? 

Here you go Sir.

17 hours ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

That's an undeniable fact Chatanga Ji.

So come on then. Provide the evidence that I have been asking you for for almost 2 years now. Thanks bi'ray.

17 hours ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

So what if Damdami Taksal choose to push the above Hindutva-sponsored mythology about our Panj Piare. The majority of the Panth recognise the above DDT allegation against our Panj Piare as a denigration not only of the Panj Piare but also the highest of high Gurmukhs who authored Gurbani (who were already mukht).

It wasn't the hindus who wrote Gurbilas 10 and the rest of the sikh historical texts bi'ray, it was Sikhs.

There you go with your majority again. What majority? Allegations? Brilliant.

1 hour ago, Kira said:

As the title goes has anyone actually read the Quran here?

Yes. I read it, and couldn't understand why peopple would become muslims because of it.

16 hours ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

Sikhs should be able to "agree to disagree" respectfully.

But should Siksh tell open lies on a Sikh forum? Time and time again you have said that Taksal openly canvassed for Congress Party votes in 1980 elections. Time and time again i have asked you to provide any evidence for you claim. Time and time again, you refuse but repeat the same allegation. Bi-ray why won't you answer?

14 hours ago, SinghSabha1699 said:

However, in relation to what is stated in Bachittar Natak below it is not related to Ram Chander but the insinuation that GurGaddi was not chosen upon the basis of bibek buddhi and kamai between 1469-1708 but instead was divided up akin to a business deal in previous lives by a bunch of Hindu Kings enthralled by the Vedas.

The first three gurgaadi passings were based on hukam. Those that obeyed the Guru were supreme. You and your bibek budhi nonsense here. If Bhai lehna had used Bibek Budhi, he would never have climbed the tree to pick sweets, Bhai Lehna would never have agreed with Guru Nanak that it was nightime when it was daytime. Nor was kamai any part of it. Baba Budha never had kamai? Why didn't Baba Budha become next Guru ?

You aren't fooling anyone here with your rubbish bi'ray.

Try readiing about gurmat and history from better sources rather than your american council chump baldev.

6 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Before we actually continue any further and me giving my view on this: do you believe in Dasam Granth?

He doesn't beleive in gurmat, never Dasam Granth. he is a darshan panthi.