hawk13

I am not attacking anyone my friend. I can get a bit rough sometimes though when i debate and i apologise for that. However, I dont like being ranted at or preached at, when I express my opinion. I agree that I have realist thinking. I do have some spiritual thinking as well, but when talking about worldly subjects such as leadership and politics, which are not really anyting to do with spirituality and jeevan, therefore, I will approach these subjects from a realist or worldly perspective because that is the most sensible thing to do.

Regarding materialism, I do not really understand where that comes from. I think that you have chosen the wrong word. It does not really have any relevance here, unless you can explain why.

Regarding fooling myself, and not accepting the bitter truth etc, again that is pretty irrelevant because in theory I could just turn around and say the same thing to you. Just because you have convinced yourself that you know the truth does not make it right. Conversely, the same thing goes for me as well

Bro control ur self even I get litle rough with u if I hurt ur feelings I also appologises for this despite having socalled extreme views I as a most humble sikh never likes to hurt anybody feelings including u I want to have healty debate.Sometimes u have different point of view u have full liberty to have it.Now I come to ur question relevance of materialist in this debate as u see sikhi in modern perception in today times this is age of matrerialist or selfish age,That is why u find my posts about sikhi or glory of sikh history as just like a comic story and this word looks offending to other members on this forum and to me this is not ur fault because u see it from modern point of view which is purely society selfish way .During the times of Gurus and Khalsa rule and Gurus situation was even worse for example Aurangjeb wanted to convert hindus to Islam never intended to convert sikhs this was evident from the conversation between Emperor and Guru Tegh Bahadur ji when Guru ji was arrested for the first time and freed before Assam operations of Mughals Mughals were convinced that there is no basic differnce between the muslims and sikhism but When Guru ji took up the cause of hindus he asked the Guru ji u do not believe in idol worship like the muslims and these very Brahmins tried to force ur Guru Nanak to wear janue why r u suppoting them The Guru ji replied they were at that time wrong they tried force and now u r using force u both r wrong .In fact first armed attack on sikhi took place during Guru Amardass ji when armed fanatic sadhus fired at a boat mistaking it to be of sikhs but in fact it was the part of convoy of Emperor Akbar which led to strong retailiation from Mughals againist the sadhus.U will be surprised to know that it was the brahmins who made a written complaint to Akbar againist Guru Amardass and then againist Guru Ramdass ji but Akbar wanted to verify himself that is why he visited Gobindwal shaiab twice and rejected the complaint of Brahmins..As sikhism is againist the intolerance during Akbar time Birbal was the biggest enemy of sikhs although he was the most immoral person and used to have physical relations with his own daughter for this he was totaly boycotted other nobles.U may say it is relevant in this but just for ur knowledge Iam unfolding some unknown facts of history if u r not feeling uneasy I will post more if u want and r not feeling bore.

She represents the true thinking of sikhi .She at such tender age is true kid of Guru ji . Those dicarding sikhi should learn from this brave kaur it shows true sikhi still exists and will remain so ever.

Like I said before you and I are on completely different wavelengths and have completely different views. I have heard you repeat yourself numerous times and I have this kind of thinking from many other people such as yourself. It is basically narrow minded and I dont agree with it. You have completely convinced yourself with your own nonsense and I'm glad that you think you have won the argument and I congratulate you on your victory. I dont really have anything else to say that I havent said already. I'm not gonna post anymore on this thread because we are just going round in circles. Might catch you a different thread sometime.

Goodnight.

U r attacking personaly ur self did I post any personal comments or taunts but u r like self styled scholar or realist person when u fails in reason u tends to attack personaly by this u r just fooling ur self. U have a materialist thinking which is called faith of conviance not of conviction which changes colors according to situation this is bitter truth,

Due to some problem in my computer some words r missed .I regret this problem many words may be missing.

I dont know where this whole idea of secularism and scholars have come from. Never once have I stated that I am a secularist and never once have I stated that I am a scholar. You clearly have very strong and passionate views about Sikhi and about Sikh history. Some of your stuff I agree with and some of it I dont agree with. Your tone seems like your trying to convince me how great Sikhs are, how great Sikhi is and how great Sikhi history is. Well if that is what you are trying to do, you dont need to because I know how great it all is. I was simply trying to give an objective analysis on how I think leadership can emerge in the Sikh community. Does that make me a scholar or a secularist, not really. However I do like to try and be, as far as possible, objective. That means weighing up the good and the bad.

Objectivity, is something lacking in our community at the moment. If we could step out of our own shoes, for a second, we might actually be able to understand the things that are happening to us a bit better and solve our problems. At the moment, we just keeping having the same problems again and again.... fake babeh, attacks on Sikhi, beadbi, traitors in the Panth etc.... dont you want to try and solve some of these problems?

You seem to have the wrong idea about what I am trying to say... as if I have come here to try and challenge your Sikhi views. Its as if as soon as someone talks about objectivity, they must be some dodgey scholar like Kala Afghana or Dilgeer or someone like that.

Bro as a sikh u have to be proud of ur history but ur forgetting one thing there r devoted sikhs a lot of them but Indian state never allows these people to emerge they r framed in false cases or r killed .Iam telling u some examples take the example of Sant Jarnail Singh,Jagdev Singh Khudian,Bimal Khalsa,Avtatr Singh of Jammu Gurjit Singh Kaka of 80s and 90s, Just recently long detention OF Bhai Daljit Singh Bittu,Pala Singh,jASWINDER sINGH A VERY INTELLIGENT YOUNG BOY who got injured in 5 dec 2009 Ashutosh protest now lodged in Nabha Jail.These r true leaders but these just gets killed or spends their life in jails after getting toture of eletric shocks ,getting chiilies in their wounds this is reality this is reason why trators like Badal gets full state support see at SGPC elections 80 percent voting is fake as 80 percent voters were nonsikhs media vidieographed it but it suits Indian state to force on sikhs badals as the Mahants were forced on sikhs after the occupation of sikh kingdom. It is easier to debate in PC and blame sikhs. But in reality who wants their young boys to get tortured or killed ? U just talk about the sikh issues in public u will be on watch list of state intelligence and gets ur self prepared to be framed up this is reason why traitors have become leaders because they r able to accept the overlordship and slavery of hinduwadis who control sikh institutions through their agencies .There is no surprise that people like badals r given PanthRatan I will not be surprised if tomoorow same award goes to KPS GILL as the sikh Institutions r under the control of state agencies .it is the state agencies who confered the award on badal not the sikhs .

I have just that dharam, should not be disregarded but should be given the highest level of importance. However the problem with you people is that you have turned this into the usual dharam verus scholars debate. How many times do I need to say that I believe that both are important and both have their place.

Do u call urself scholar or u wrongly say sikhism is overgloried U have a narrow outlook of securlism but sikhs were more secular in medival than the socalled secularists of modern times as for as my mistakes in english is concerned in different nations there is different type of english but u were able to read my ealier posts..Gurmat never or sikhs never overglorifies religion sikhi is itself like sun our Gurus has regarded sikhs as supirror to himself example is of Guru Nanak when Guru Angad ji became Guru Guru Nanak himself bowed before Guru Angad ji Guru Gobin Singh bowed before Panch Piaras and asked for Amrit these happenings were never overglorified but was well recorded

Well then according to your definition, there are no Sikhs on this planet, or very very few in number. And that most likely means that you and I are not Sikhs either doesnt it?

And I have read your version of history in your post. Frankly, it is a comic book version that they teach kids in Punjabi school. Personally, I like to study history in a bit more depth and try and draw analysis from it regarding how it might be relevant in modern times.

iT is not comic book these facts r proven as u seems to live in ur own world secondly yes there r sikhs I and you r nobody our Guru has given the definition of sikh u must go through sikh history which in ur wrong opnion is like comic book but these facts r proved u r confused about modern times relevence about it in modern times .It was again the sikhs who taught tactics of gurilla warfare after 80 years of prosecution when sikhism was banned and this this was known as Dhai pat war . U need to learn we r pruod to declare despite such hardships sikhs and sikhi still exists despite winning great battles we never commited exceeses not going far away u can read the BATLLE OF SARA GARHI,1984 SIKHS RESISTANCE TO INVADING FORCES WHICH USED TANKS ,HEAVY GUNS,EVEN MUSTARD GAS THIS WILL ALSO SEEM TO U AS a fiction.Same underestimation led to many defeats of allied againist japan during WW II ,

Sorry dude.... dont agree with you there... everything you said sounds pretty idealistic and disconnected to the real world to be honest. Still fair enough, thats your opinion

Then I must u should know more about sikhi only sikhi makes u honest u have no knowledge of sikhi that is why u used word hypocrite first scan the sikh history ur world is different that is what sikhi tells us SARBAT DA BHALLA

First sikhs got their empire after great sacrifices they could prosecute Mughals but they never did.It was again Khalsa who captured Delhi but returned it big evidence about the conquer of Delhi is TEESHAZARI in Delhi.The Sikhs could have made alliance with Ahmad Shah abdali but never did as it was againist the ethhics .Sikhs were main power in Asia as they had defeated Mughals,Persians and Afghans but sikhs never believed in prosecuting other religions.Sikhs were able to contain mighty Gurkhas and evicted them from Kangra During Ranjit Singh times during the last days of Ranjit Singh Nepal ,China and even afghans along with sikh kingdom tried to make the alliance as evident from the presence of high officials along with gifts from these kingdoms along with pmost powerful kingdom of India the Nizam of Hyderabad who was consisdered to be close ally of Brithisers but this planned alliance ended due to treachery of Dogras,Suri brothers,Brahmin lobby only nonsikh groups which showed some loyalty were Kashmiri Pandits such high officials like Pandit Dinanath and Punjabi muslims. Otherwise even during the last days of Maharaja conpiracies were strated.

Alot of Sikhs, and alot of Indians for that matter seem to believe that a great spiritual leader will come to Earth and save them and solve all of their problems. From my understanding this is actually contrary to Sikh teachings anyway. Guru Gobind Singh ji saw the Kirpan (sword) to be the greatest of miracles as it was a symbol of direct action by which an individual or nation can determine its own destiny.

If you look at how Sikh power emerged in the 17th Century, it was largely opportunistic in nature. The Mughal empire cracked and crumbled so the Sikhs slowly filled the gaps. Then you have Maharajah Ranjit Singh, who, in reality, was nothing more than a highly intelligent and ambitious Sardar of one of the Sikh Misls who basically conquered over the territory of the other Misls using a mixture of violence, diplomacy and bribes... some people loved him and others cursed him, however, everyone had to bow down to his superiority... he became top dog.

Hence, if a great Sikh leader does emerge, I believe that one is more likely going to have to fight their way to the top and crush the opposition. The second way that a leader could emerge is by being outspoken and capturing the imagination of the public in some way. However, this kind of leader would need the right timing and right environment in which to emerge.

In this day and age, if a leader like Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale was to emerge, it is probable that most people wouldnt listen to him because most Sikhs dont seem to believe that Sikhi is under threat enough. For example, If you take a look at someone like Baljit Singh Daduwal, he uses a similar style of rhetoric that Jarnail Singh used to use but who listens to him? Not many people to be honest.

However, if things got really bad in Punjab, or more importantly, they were perceived to get really bad in Punjab amongst the mass populace, its quite possible that people would flock to someone like him and listen to what he had to say.

U r mistaken first a sikh can never be hypocrite sikh is the the very swaroop of Akalpurarkh secondly Badal never comes under the definition of sikh he has become nonsikh by his actions. Sikh ethics and Rehat MARYADA IS SUPREME THAN ANY JATHEDAR EVEN GURUS CONSISDERS REHAT MARYADA HIGHER THAN THEMSELVES.U r again wrong when u says none will care about Sant Bhindrawale go and see ur self people buys his posters,stickers etc but not of any other socalled sikh leader.See the gathering of sikh youth in ludhiana court in favour of Bhai Jagtar Singh HAwara u will get better answer.It is hoodlum mafia,drug mafia or land mafia on WHICH is responsible for existence of fake Akali dal of badal.

See Gurmat does not recogonise any gods be it hindus or anyone. Please I request admin. not to take my post negatively. some of the acts of gods r not not only immoral but againist the ethics of civilised world this is not my view but it is mentioned in vishnu puran and other texts.

1 Is it right to justify the rape of King Jalandhar wife who also happens to be brother in law of vishnu who burns herself and vishnu converts her into tulsi plant in old bollywood movie it is mentioned and hindu texts justifies it?and Jalandhar city is named after her husband this is belief of hindus

2 even Gautam buddha is avtar of vishnu these people propagates this is game of fanatic hindus not the common hindus to destroy sikhi

3 in sikhi there is no importance to gods

I do not want to mention any incidents as many kids watch this site or this forum shall be dubbed as anti hindu site.

Toofana veer ji thanks for information as few days back when I went to Mohali court to meet a lawyer friend I saw young Nihang Singh in police custody talking to his lawyer some one told me he was Bhai Parsotam Singh talking to High court lawyer Brijinder Singh Loomba .I can never forget the Darshani Singh like Bhai shaiab ji I was also told that special judge in whose court case case is going on was very unconfrot able when lawyer Brijinder Singh asked for grenades to be brought to the court also told barjinder singh is being harrased because he is fighting the cases of Singhs in most bold way . Is he the same person who has caused dis confort to both state and central goverment in case relating to leakage of uranium in Punjab? I also saw intelligence people making vidiography of this particular lawyer I hope he should not face same fate Khalra has faced. The recovery at Ambala is 100 percent fake it is another tactic of anti sikh lobby to frame up more sikhs and to shield the hindu terorrists for example in ludhiana bomb blast in shingar cinema on 14 oct 2007 on eve of id was caused pipe bomb similiar to blasts caused in ajmer.12 oct 2007,hyderabad 16 oct 2007 malegoan 2008, poona 2009. tenkashi in Tamilnaidu ,Panipat in Samjauta express and many places in India by RSS men but unfortunately muslim youths were released but sikh youth in Ludhiana may face death penalty but no sikh organisation raised voice while hue and cry is being raised for Sarbjit case in pakistan it is for singhs of USA and other placces to put pressure on fake akalis like badals who framed up the singhs before they r convicted take it as appeal as all singhs families in ludhiana blast r facing miserable life just boycot BJP and Akalis like Demostrations being held againist the kamalnath.

The news channel reports of recovery of explosive matreial is biiggest fraud on common people to defame sikhs

There is several unanswered questions one why dog squad of haryana police and experts failed to find any thing dog r of same breed and electronic euipment failed of haryana police.

why it took 5 hours to detect matreials took midnight and there is no idependent version

The special cell of delhi police and IB I\is known for antisikh mentality.

This was evident from their earlier actions one such case is put up againist Parshotam Singh a katha wachak in Amb shaiab Gurdwara in mohali he was arrested by special cell of delhi police and handed over to mohali police and framed up in false case of recovery of hand grenades,revolver, RDX.

Another case is of arrest of Harminder Singh ,jaswinder Singh ,gurjanrt singh,manjinder singh those singhs whoopposed Ashutosh function in ludhiana.Another case is of framing up of harminder singh,ravinder Singh,Gurpreet Singh in ludhiana bomb blast case in which these may get death penalty.there r lots of cases in which singhs r framed up all at the behest of anti sikh intelligence body IB.PUNJAB INTELLIGENCE SPECIAL CELL DELHI POLICE.

I have seen some incidents of biggest PAKANDHS in my childhood one such Pakandh was doing Shradh for GURU NANAK in Gurdwara and another is ladies and young girls performing fast and coming to gurdwara with thalis another pakandh was the Linking Rakhri with Guru Nanak and offering rakhris to GURU GRANTH SHAIAB but during those days noone dared to say anything about these Biparvads and anti Gurmat acts as even wives of office bearers of gurdwara used to keep fast.It is good sign now Singhs openly oppose these Pakands due to spread of information technology and due to this forums. This is my personal experience which Iam sharing with my brothers and sisters on this forum. May more such forums on line comes and creates awareness. Gurfateh to all my brothers and sisters as I have just recovered from dengue fever by blessings of my singh friends.

Mehatb Singh ji it is the state of Uttrakhandh not UP ,Secondly BJP led goverment is trying to create trouble each year as many sikh pilgrims pass through this state on their way to Hemkunt shaiab .Last year there was also a clash between pilgrims and local shopkeepers the reason DUE ROAD SIDE GURU KA LANGAR RUN BY SINGHS LOCALS ALLEGED THIS AFFECTED THEIR BUSSINESS wHILE SINGHS ALLEGED they were given unhygenic food by local shopkeepers at 3 to 4 times rates and dhabbaswallahs openly indulged in verbal abuse and making communal comments.Last year Uttarakhandh goverment banned road side Langars which led to protests by sikhs in allover India but Prakash chand badal refused to intervenue when the matter was resolved badal and co tried to get credit this was the last year issuse.Present cause of trouble is unknown it is high time sikhs should learn to defend themselves and devolep milatary doctrine and invest in arms.In punjab a large no of migrant people r given arm licenses which r otherwise impossible in Bihar.U.P.iF SIKHS CAN INVEST IN COSLY CARS ,HOUSES WEAPONS COSTS LESS IT IS HIGH TIME WE SHOULD LOOK INTO IT.

an when i say it would get destroyed today on the battle field i mean in terms of fighterjets guns and so on

reason i say shastar vidya wouldn't last against other martial arts is cause their is no evidence how effective this stuff is, no videos of sparring they never competed or compete in real promotions and tournments all their our is claims how effective it is which sound made up

gURFATEH U do not know about the WWII US and Russian forces battle for Oikanawa Islands in Japan where the Japenese fighters with Samurai lineage fought with traditional arms againist heavily armed forces of Soviet union when regular forces exhausted amno then local fighters took field and used hit and run tactics with such success that Soviet Union lost70,000 troops and made a retreat but 4 lacs US troops surrounded the 15 islands and due to hungerand extreme troubles US troops succeeded in capuring the islands not before losing their 40.000 troops this was shown in discovery channael 3 years back and US TROOPS TOOK LARGE NO OF KHATTANA SWORDS AS MEMORY TACTICS R MORE IMPORTANT EVEN DURING VIETNAM WAR IN MANY CASES LOCAL FIGHTERS KILLED LARGE NO OF US SOLDIERS DESPITE BEING BOMBARED BY AIR FORCE AND SUFFERED LOSSES DUE TO USE OF BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS U NEED TO DEVOLEP JUST TACTICS AND DOCTRINE ALONG WITH MODERN WEAPONS IN MANY CASES TRADITINAL WEAPONS CAN BECOME LETHAL COMBINATION THIS WAS DEMOSTRATED BY SIKHS DURING WAR WITH MUGHALS ,AFGANS AND ENGLIGH.

its time to remove some of their heads...place signs underneath saying 'we have nothing against no faith, we love all people but we will not tolerate any attacks on our faith. This is what happens to those who attack our faith' ...its about time we listened to the words of sant ji and removed some heads!

Removing the heads of these papis will be less punishment their hands must be thrown into same well so these papis will remember all their lives.

Gurfateh,

Today is sahheedi divas of Baba Banda Singh Bahadur and I was moved into tears by listening to sacrifices of Puratan singhs. Have we become so insenstive to the saheedis of puratan singhs that we may celebrate the many sant mahapurush Barsis but have forgoten the real Mahapurushs of sikh panth. We have to shed this insenstiveness we means MYSELF even I did not remember it .

Bibi Santosh Kaur is my real massi, and i am actually proud of her and my family, who are still bringing forward maharaji's message to the whole world. The way my massi has handled the memory of maharaj ji, i am extremely proud of her.

Firstly A Gurughar is dedicated to the Guru Maharaj and secondly Sant ji spread the message of his master Guru Nanak ji and Sri Guru Granth Shaiab ji Maharaj it was not anybody personal message which is for the whole universe.All living beings r mortal Only GUR SHABAD IS SUPREME.

Have a look at Baba Ramdev Ji's post on events of last 24 hours taken from his facebook...

http://www.facebook.com/swami.ramdev?sk=wall

"The Death of Democracy and Human Rights in India

Midnight June 4, 2011, the capital of India, Delhi, witnessed the barbaric actions of the government exerted upon hundreds of thousands of peaceful Satyagrahis sleeping in the Ram Lila grounds. The brutality of the police towards innocent resting people, including children and women, revisited the atrocities committed by British rulers at Jallianwala Bagh."

June 4 1984 / June 4 2011...?Gur fateh

Do not have any sympathy for RSS people like Ramu <banned word filter activated> or RAmdevand Anna pig are the biggest fascist and propagates HINDU RASTRA AND THESE RSS JUSTIFIES DEATH PENALTY FOR PROF BHULLAR. Socalled pakandi sant can never be compared with SANT JARNAIL SINGH JI WHO FACED TANKS WITH CHARDIKALA, He is supported by fake sadhvi Ritambara, Ashok Singhal ,These brave people 1 lacIN NUMBER fled like cattle before just 5000 policemen armed with sticks.,making true SLOGAN DHOTI,TOPI YAMUNA PAR. THEY TOOK SHELTER IN GURDWARA BANGALA SHAIAB WHY DID NOT THEY GET SHELTER IN HANUMAN MANDIR NEARBY ,ON ONE HAND THEY CALLS SIKHS TERORRISTS AND JUSTIFIES ATTACK ON DURBAR SHAIAB KILLING OF OUR KIDS AND TALKS ABOUT HINDU INDIA BY WIPING OUT OTHER COMMUNITIES THIS IS TRUE COLOUR OF RAMU PAKANDI THESE MUST BE EVICTED FROM BANGLA SHAIAB WHAT IS THEIR OPINION ABOUT KILLING OF SIKH YOUTHS? This is forum is for propagation of sikhi not for propagation of hindu fundamentlist these socalled brave men could not face lathis these people justify use of tanka, chemical weapons on sikhs these fanatics have no sympathy for victims of 1984 killings. Anna and RAmu bhamans have got a litle taste of their own medicine

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/govt-threatened-me-baba-ramdev/156879-3.html

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/govt-threatened-me-baba-ramdev/156879-3.html

New Delhi: Yoga guru Baba Ramdev on Sunday said the incident of Saturday night was a black moment for him. Addressing the media after reaching Haridwar, Baba Ramdev said innocent people were addressed to such barbaric acts on Saturday at the Ramlila Maidan.

"I kept on telling the policemen not to torture innocent people. Families and small children were subjected to torture, were not spared, they were dragged and beaten up," Ramdev said.

"On the night of June 4, if we had not stopped our workers from getting agitated then thousands of people would have died. Such kind of cruelty was not even seen in emergency or Jallianwala Bagh," he said. He added, "I am not scared of death. But, I didn't want to die in such a barbaric act."

Baba Ramdev explained how he tried to get out of the pandal by wearing a salwar, kameez. "Tear gas were fired upon. People are still admitted to ICU. For a full 2 hours it was mayhem in the pandal, police was firing tear gas and bullets. I am not scared of death," he said.

He also said that the government kept pressurising him to end his fast. "We were assured that whatever we wanted would be done. We were told that an ordinance will be brought to nationalise black money. We were assured that information regarding corrupt leaders, traders etc will be put in public domain. Everything was agreed upon except for one issue. The issue which was not agreed upon was the issue of nationalising black money stashed in foreign banks. The government was pressurising me to end my fast," he said.

Baba Ramdev claimed that he was forced to give a letter of consent in the hotel. "Manmohan Singh, Sonia Gandhi and Pranab Mukherjee were consulted. I got this information that either I be arrested, put in encounter or taken to an unknown destination," he claimed.

He also claimed that the government wanted him to call off his Satyagraha on June 3. He said, "The government could not see such a large Satyagraha where crores participated across the country. We were forced to write a letter on June 3 that by June 6 we will call off our Satyagraha."

He also claimed that the last letter that was given to him by the government did not mention anything about black money.

He claimed that Kapil Sibal told him that if Anna Hazare shares the stage with him, they won't agree to any of his demands.

Attacking Sonia Gandhi, he also said, "Earlier I didn't used to pay attention to the fact that Sonia Gandhi wasn't born in this country. But, after Saturday night's incident, it shows that she does not have any place for the women and children of this nation."

Baba Ramdev also accused the UPA government of holding black money in foreign banks. He said, " Saturday night's act confirms that Rs 50 lakh crore belong to the Congress and its allies."

He also made it clear that he is not done with his fast and will continue with his agitation.

"I am not done with my fast, I will continue with the Satyagraha, the agitation can't be removed from the hearts of people. If anything happens to me, Sonia Gandhi and the Congress government will be responsible for it," Baba Ramdev said.

Baba Ramdev called AICC General Secretary Digijaya Singh's comments irresponsible and refused to comment further on that. He also claimed to have given details of every penny spent, to the government.

He said that his supporters will peacefully observe black day on Sunday evening and Money.

He asked the government an explanation on the reason behind Saturday night's act. When asked whether his talks will continue with the government, Baba Ramdev said he will update as per developments.

Responding to allegations of breaking the rules, Baba Ramdev said, "I did perform Yoga asanas at Ramlila Maidan and the whole world saw. Speaking against corruption comes under the ethics of Yoga."

Responding to allegations about him working for the RSS and BJP, Baba Ramdev said, "I am not a member of the BJP, never even campaigned for them."

Even the relatives r keeping away due to police excesses among these Harminder Singh and Ravinder Singh might face death penalty for the offence which was commited by hinduwadi as Shingar blast was caused on ID MUSLIM FESTIVAL further it was caused by pipe bomb same device used in Malegaon, Hyderabad,Ajmer blast it is favorite bomb of hinduwadi terorrists same device was used in Tamil Naidu .Most important is Panipat, ajmer hyderabad and ludhiana blast were caused in 2007 close to eachother for details TEHLAKA REPORTS, MIROR INDIA REPORTS AND CHARESHHEET FILED BY INDIAN CENTRAL AGENCIES ARE BIGGEST PROOF. While badal group is playing politics on bhullar issuse in HARMINDER sINGH Ravinder and others cases they r bent upon hanging the harminder singh despite the fact that the witnesses r called again and again and pressurised to give false evidence. Harminder Singh is defended by team of lawyers led by Brijinder Singh Loomba a high court lawyer along with G.S Rattu and Gurjinder Singh. Apart from these singhs there is Gurmel Singh from Buta Singh wala who has become mentallly unstable due to inhuman police torture of khanna policemen like ramandeep singh.arvind puri ssp sukhminder singh mann. Arvind Puribroke the leg of Harminder Singh ,rAMANDEEP BROKE THE CHAIR ON THE HEAD OF GURMEL SINGH THEN POURED BOILED WATER ON HIS WOUNDS AND SSP KEPT ON LAUGHING AND GURMEL SINGH WAS GIVEN ELECRIC SHOCKS ON ALLOVER THE BODY HE IS POOREST AMONG ALL PRISONERS. gURJANT sINGH WAS ASKED BY ssp sUKHMINDER MAAN YOU TOLD US TO FIRE AT UR CHEST SINGHS GETS BULLETS ON THEIR CHESTS WHAT NOW THAT SINGH TOLD THE POLICEMEN FEARLESSLY UNTIE MY HANDS SEE UR FATE POLICEMEN GAVE ELETRIC SHOCKS GAVE HIM SEVERE BEATINGS HE CAN STILL BARELY WALK,JASWINDER SINGH STICHES ON BULLET WOUNDS OPENED UP DURING OLICE TORTURE IN THE STOMACH. THESE POLICEMEN UNDER BADAL RULE R COMMTING EXCESSES ON SIKHS BUT NRIS AND SIKHS OF PUNJAB KEEPS ON LICKING THEIR BOOTS

Veer Ji, I saw your documentary. Like some other Singh's and Kaur's you are doing a great seva. I think we need to listen to the Singhs and Kaurs who have been telling us for years that the Punjab is systematically being destroyed by the indian govt. I know you say don't blame the govt but only the indian govt can police the pesticide levels, or actually put ROs in once the villagers have paid them, rather than disappear with the money. Only the govt can give back a fair percentage of the tax they take from the Punjab back to the Punjab for hospitals and clinics. Only the indian govt can stop reward or promoting the corrupt politicians and police officers in the Punjab. If the Politicians and Police raise their game they can police things in the Punjab. Only the indian govt can fine the factories that pour toxic waste into the rivers that flow into the Punjab. I have been donating.

The indian govt will only listen to the Sikhs, if we listen to the SIkhs who have the best interest of Punjab in their hearts. We have to acknowledge the Politics problem against the Punjab before we can start to address, the politics problem of the Punjab.

Believe me I really don't want to say this because you'll say I'm playing politics, but the above is only about politics, that's what's killing the people of Punjab, the Politics. Like I say I don't want to say this because you'll say I'm going off topic, but, Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindrawale warned us about all of this. But we didn't listen. Did you know indra Gandhi started off the Pesticide Policy in the Punjab back in the70's. She allowed higher levels of pesticide to be used in the Punjab. This is her dream legacy coming true! If anyone doesn’t believe me then please do the research.

Anyway I'll just sit back and let you all criticise me for mentioning Sant Ji, even though he warned us repeatedly of this happening!! Go on, I am ready send in the posts to batter me!

The Sikh Federation are hot on this too.

Vaheguru bless you for bringing the above to our attention! You've done alot more than I have!

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Uranium leakage case is pending in Punjab and Haryana high court it was filed by a gursikh Lawyer Brijinder Singh loomba in september 2010 and after several hearing is now fixed for 4 march . Mr loomba is also fighting a lone legal battle and now petty political people like bir devinder and ajit paper r falsely claiming credit r they party in case the answer is no. Mr Brijinder Singh is also defending cases of singhs in shingar blasts apart from oher cases I have heard none of the socalled sikh groups r supporting him, it is sorry state of affairs. Name of the uranium leakage case is BrIJINDER SINGH LOOMBA VS UNION OF INDIA case no cwp no 11509/2010

That creep hardeep has trimmed hair and has failed in first test of sikhi ,that creep has no right to speak on behalf of sikhi . He is a sirgum these types of people has been excluded from sikhi as per sikh rehat along with nari marr and kurimars unfortunately these people have been given a new name sehajdhari which has no relations with sikhi , Main source is bhai mohkam singh writings and bhai nand lal singh sakhi rehat ki this type of creep needs to be sued for hurting the feelings of sikhs.

I made a few topics about this, you can perform a search and you'll end up finding some information.

Best place to find shaster are Hazoor Sahib and Anandpur Sahib or from Nihung Singhs in general from Punjab. There is also a shop that I can tell you of that's located in the vicinity of Dukhniwaran Sahib in Patiala who usually has one or two old pieces for sale, however, he's 'chalaak' and greedy so he overprices them by a lot. If you go there you'll have to haggle 70%+ down from the original price.

Shasterkhajana is also a good place to find them as well but the prices will be up there.

Gurfateh,

There is rather 2 very good shops one oposite the STD booth and before that shop one is of damdami taksal .I have seen a singh buying 5 kg tegha from him. Patiala is the best apart from puratan ones one singh near nabha road manufacture good shasters resembling the puratan infact these r shops of Siklighars. The best shasters can be found in Patiala and same quality is in Huzoor shaiab.