Cali_Khalsa

WJKK, WJKF:

I'm actually the one who posted that information on the SNYF a while back. Glad to see that people are finding it helpful.

However, I would add that that particular ruling applied to children in grades K-12. I do not know for sure whether it also applies to state universities and colleges as well.

I know that at UC Berkeley, campus police are aware of the significance of the kirpan and will not cite you provided that it remain hidden and that you do not use it for offensive purposes, at least that is what one of their police officials told me last summer during a training seminar for law enforcement that I helped to conduct. He said that in the past they had a couple of problems with some Sikh youth who wore kirpans and used them during fights that broke out at Bhangra gigs held on campus, but generally they will not say anything provided that you are discreet and are safe about it.

Beyond that, it really just depends on the campus you are going too. Common sense also plays a role here as well...just use your best judgment. If you are in an environment where you feel that no one will mind, then by all means wear it openly and freely. In a lot of cases though, you may find that wearing it underneath is best. A lot of Singhs I know seem to have adopted a "don't ask, don't tell" policy and that seems to work for a lot of us. Kirpan lengths under 9 inches should be okay but keep in mind that post 9/11, a lot of institutions have implemented and/or strengthened their zero tol

erance policies for weapons, so discretion is key here.

If you were to get cited for wearing a kirpan though, chances are that the case will be dismissed, as it is generally accepted within legal circles that this is an article of faith and falls under the protection of the 1st amendment. The Sikh Coalition is your best source for info on this, and I'd encourage you to visit their site if you have any further questions or concerns.

http://www.sikhcoalition.org

-Gurfateh

WJKK, WJKF:

I usually visit several news websites throughout the week, and I noticed that the BBC makes their website available in 43 different languages, but not one of them is Punjabi. :T:

Among the South Asian languages they do offer is Hindi, Bengali, Urdu, Nepali, Sinhala, and Tamil. So naturally, this begs the question, why not in Punjabi? After all, the UK is home to nearly a million residents of Punjabi origin, you would think that they could find some folks to help them in this endeavor.

Can anyone here from the UK shed some light on why this is (or anyone else for that matter?) Thank you.

FYI, here is the link that shows the complete list of languages that their news site is available in:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/us/languages.shtml

I look forward to reading your thoughts and comments on the matter.

-Gurfateh

WJKK, WJKF:

It is very unfortunate that Western Governments cannot look past the physical appearance of our Kirpans and recognize the importance and symbolic meaning of them.

With that said, in a post 9/11 world, it is virtually impossible to make any inroads on this issue for the indefinite future. Here in the United States, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is adamant that under no circumstances will amritdhari Sikhs be allowed to wear their kirpans, regardless of size. Their number one priority is to ensure the safety of airline passengers, and they will not make any exceptions for anyone no matter what. It has been reported that necklace type kirpans that are the size of your pinky are allowed, but even then I have heard that some Sikhs have been told to leave them behind by security officials.

The right to wear the kirpan goes well beyond airports. It also applies when Sikhs go to courts, embassies, and other government offices throughout the world. There have been several court cases in the US that have been successfully litigated that have allowed Sikhs to wear kirpans in schools and on the job. Beyond that, the law is less clear. For a list of applicable cases and additonal info please go here:

http://www.sikhcoalition.org/InfoKirpan.asp

http://www.sikhcoalition.org/LegalAirTravel.asp

My advice for those of you who are looking to travel, is to do ardaas, place your kirpan in your checked luggage, and then upon arriving at your destination, remove the kirpan

and do ardaas again. Whether you choose to drink or eat anything in between that time is in my opinion, a personal choice (after all, those US-India journeys can take up to 23 hours!).

Meanwhile, we should continue to educate our elected officials and those responsible for overseeing airline security about this issue. I know that SMART and the Sikh Coalition have been working on this for some time, and if you feel that you have been wrongfully discriminated against in any way shape or form, please do not hesitate to contact them.

Finally, here is a link to SMART’s Sikh passenger bill of rights. Anyone who is traveling to or from the United States should print this out before embarking on his or her journey.

http://www.sikhmediawatch.org/resources/yo...ghts.htm#travel

-Gurfateh

WJKK, WJKF:

Hey guys, I stayed up late into the night coming up with a response to that critic of the WICS website on the Sikhnet Youth Forum. As you may recall, he/she felt that it wrong to point out the fallacies of Islam, because in his opinion he felt that Sikhi has some of its own. To which I sent in the following reply:

Khalsjee, I would like to take this opportunity to respond to my fellow brother/sister who commented on the newly launched "why I choose Sikhism" website.

First and foremost, you need to reexamine which faith you belong to. Your statement that "there is no need to show Islam's falsehoods because i am sure sikhi has some also" is patently false and borderline blasphemous. That the moderator would not correct your statement is even more disturbing. I can assure you that if Sikhi were full of even one falsehood, I would not be a Sikh today. If you honestly think that, then you need to reexamine which religion you belong to. Please think before you make such statements, especially on a Sikh oriented website which is designed to promote Sikhsim, not bring it down.

Second, in response to the criticism that the website slanders Islam, I respectfully disagree with you. While it is true that certain portions of the site could stand to be modified to be more "politically correct," I think it is important not to lose sight of the bigger picture here. One needs only to venture so far as to clicking on the "personal stories" link to see the reason why this site was launched to begin with….

How any Sikh let alone human being, could read those deeply moving and equally disturbing stories, and not walk away without shedding

a tear is unfathomable. It was not designed to slander the Islamic faith, rather it was in response to a malicious campaign that has been orchestrated by a sizable minority within the Islamic community in the UK and elsewhere that has forcibly converted hundreds of young Sikh women, many of who simply were not aware of the beauty of their own faith. This site aims to present them and others, with the clear differences between the two faiths, of which there are many. If in the course of doing so, it upsets certain peoples then so be it. We cannot be expected to account for the contradictions and inequalities that are contained in their scriptures…Sikhism was born in part, as a response to the fallacies that our Guru’s saw in both of the dominant faiths in India at the time. Guru Nanak and his successors sought to present a unique and different path one that promoted love,equality, and social justice for all.

Also, I should also like to refute an argument that has been stated by some moderators that all religions somehow lead to the same path. No where in Gurbani does it state this! Do not confuse tolerance of other faiths, with a belief that somehow we all end up the same place at the end of the day. Only Sikhs can reach Sachkand. I will refer you to the following Q & A which also contains quotes from Gurbani that refute this argument.

Q: If the Gurus said that all religions lead to the same path, you'll be ok whichever religion you're in. Then why didn't they mention them all in depth in their writings? With Sikhism, if all these past religions were right why don't we believe in Adam as the first man etc. Was there a sudden change of plan when the Guru's came along? Now man was no longer created from Adam? The argument we are all on a path which leads to God, no matter which we take cannot apply. Not everyone worships one God.

A: It is a TOTALLY FALSE argument that Sikhism believes all paths lead to the same goal and thus all religions are equal: From i

ts very inception, Gurmat has been declared a unique and distinct path. Bhai Gurdas writes: "the Guru has created the mighty Gurmukh panth. This panth keeps itself away from the boundaries of the Vedas and the Semitic scriptures..." (Bhai Gurdas, 23.19)

SGGS over and over stresses the importance of "Gurmat Naam". Without Gurmat Naam no one can find Akaal or reach sachkhand. Gurmat naam is only available in the house of Guru Nanak: "Nanak kai ghar keval, naam" . Keval means "only".

Without naam, no one can find God. GurbaaNee is clear about this fact:

Nanak naam binaa ko mukath n hoee

Translation:O Nanak, without the Naam, the Name of the Lord, no one is liberated

Where is this naam to be found? From the Guru.

bin gur naam n paaeiaa jaae

Translation:Without the Guru, the Naam cannot be obtained.

Satguru Nanak is the only true Guru who has preached naam, and given gurmat-naam.

As for other acts of "religion", this is what Guru Nanak says:

theeruthh thup dhaeiaa dhuth dhaan ||

Pilgrimages, austere discipline, compassion and charity

jae ko paavai thil kaa maan ||

these, by themselves, bring only an iota of merit.

suniaa mu(n)niaa man keethaa bhaao ||

Listening and believing with love and humility in your mind,

a(n)thurugath theerathh mal naao ||

cleanse yourself with the Name, at the sacred shrine deep within.......

So, unless someone receives Gurmat Naam from Guru Nanak, there is no liberation. They will be rewarded for their good karma, but not liberated. They don't want liberation! Christians are content with heaven, and they will receive it. But then they will enter the cycle of births and deaths again, hopefully in a life which will bring them closer to liberation. Gurmat Panth's respect of all religions goes as far as saying that they are not sent to eternal hell, they will get what they work for. Like Harmandir Saahib: God is open and available to a

ll directions and all people of the world, but the path to God is ONE: Gurmat.

About other faiths:

eik jainee oujhurr paae dhhuruhu khuaaeiaa ||

Some are Jains, wasting their time in the wilderness; by their pre-ordained destiny, they are ruined. panna 1285

hi(n)dhoo a(n)nhaa thurukoo kaanaa ||

The Hindu is blind; the Muslim has only one eye. panna 875

In many other places it is made clear that Gurmat, the way of the Giani, who meditates on Gurmat Naam is the only path to Akaal. Others will get their heaven etc. but not find Akaal. All faiths will get what they work towards. Only Gurmat has a concept such as Sach Khand and God-Realization in such a clear way.

Thus, Gurmat is the only path to Sach Khand and merger with Akaal.

Who else is the true Guru of status of Guru Nanak? Mohammed? Jesus? Krishna? Rama? There is none. These prophets don't come close to even the Sikhs of Guru Nanak, let alone Guru Nanak himself. GurbaaNee leaves no doubt:

"Sabh tay Vadaa Satgur Nanak, Jin kal raakhee mayree" meaning Satuguru Nanak is THE GREATEST who has protected my honour in this age of darkness (Kaljug).

http://www.whyIchosesikhism.Com/?p=answers&ans=4

*******

In sum, I believe that those who believe that we can somehow fight the current injustices that are being leveled against our faith with kindness alone, are naïve and do not realize the full extent of the damage that has been done and the need to respond. It will only get you so far. At some point, we Sikhs will have to rise up and defend ourselves. Please do not be upset with the Gursikhs who have put their heart and soul into this site and have thoroughly researched and documented all of the evidence that is presented there. All sources are provided and accounted for should you have any doubts about their authenticity.

If you wish to harbor any anger towards anyon

e, it should be towards the cowards who lurk in the shadows and whose only purpose is to see the destruction of Sikhism by wiping out our future generations of mothers, sisters, and daughters. We cannot be held responsible for what is written in the Koran. Indeed, there exists a very clear choice here for anyone who would think about leaving Sikhi. We offer the Sikh perspective in keeping with the tenants of our faith as provided for in Gurbani. If this site can save just one young Sikh girl, then it will have accomplished its mission.

Not suprisingly, my response has yet to be posted, and I doubt that it will. Just today, a new question/answer was posted on the SNYF in which the moderator (DKK) stated that all paths are the same, while sidestepping the fact that SachKand is unique to Sikhs. You can read that post and DKK's full response here:

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/youth.nsf/3...33;OpenDocument

I would be suprised if they post my reply, but I just wanted to let all of you to know that there are people out there who do care and will not let these guys continue to mislead our fellow brothers and sisters! I will keep you posted on my efforts as things develop.

-Gurfateh

WJKK, WJKF:

Well it seems like this site is beginning to cause some comotion at the Sikhnet Youth Forum. This was posted today in response to an earlier post regarding the launch of the site and its objectives:

it seems to me like whyichosesikhism.com is degrading islam. this is sickening to me. as sikhs we should kill them with kindness, NOT the way you are presenting this exremely biased site. it is a false representation of what Sikhism truly is. this site should be taken down and do not support the creators of this hatefull site against our muslim BROTHERS and SISTERS. there is no need to show islam's falsehoods because i am sure sikhi has some also. this was very unecessary.

thank you,

(no offense to anyone, this is just my opinion)

*********

reply

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Sat Siri Akaal. Even w/o seeing the site personally, I believe you are correct. Why do we forget that Guru Arjun asked a Muslim to lay the cornerstone of the Golden Temple? And that 9th Guru died so all can worship as they choose. No one faith is above another. All paths lead to Ik Ong Kar.

-DKK

The original post can be found here:

http://www.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/youth.nsf/3...33;OpenDocument

What bothers me is that the person who replied to this post says that Sikhism has its own fallacies...gosh, I'd hate to think that I've been practicing a faith this whole time that isn't entirely true! :e:

I'd encourage those of you who are directly involved with the creation of this site to provide him with an articulate reply. Likewise, I will try to do the same.

-Gurfateh

WJKK, WJKF:

If one cannot see God in all, then one cannot see God at all.

-Gurfateh

WJKK, WJKF:

"GABROO KHALISTAN DAH,"

Ordinarily, I would not dignify your homophobic and un-Sikh like comments with a reply whomever you may be.

I will only say that no child of Guru Gobind Singh Ji would ever dare to harbor the hatred that is evidently rampant in your soul. Guru Sahib has taught me to love ALL. I pray that one day you will realize the divine message that they have all given us to help us in our daily lives including that of love and tolerance.

I humbly request that the moderators refrain from allowing similar posts in the future as they serve no purpose other than to incite hate and animosity towards our fellow human beings. Please enforce your own rules:

"Stereotyping of any culture, religion, race, or group of people is not allowed!"

-Gurfateh

WJKK, WJKF:

I’ve been lurking here for the past few days, and I gotta say I’m pretty saddened to read some of the comments that have been posted here. Regardless of how one may view the topic of homosexuality and whether you believe one is or isn’t born one, we should at the very least refrain from making degrading remarks about them. We are all free to disagree, but these are human beings we are talking about and not some heathenistic creatures of the night that some would like to portray them as. This forum should not be a conduit which somehow legitimizes or condones gay bashing.

The question that was asked was how does Sikhism view homosexuality? Clearly, this was not an issue that was directly addressed by our Guru’s, but one can make a logical inference that they believed that marriage should be between a man and a woman. That does not mean however, that anyone who falls outside of these parameters should be discriminated or ridiculed by society. Our religion preaches tolerance first and foremost and we are consistently reminded in Gurbani to refrain from passing judgments on others. Yet, that is exactly what some have engaged in here.

Regardless of my own personal views about homosexuality, I will however add that I do not believe that any nation should pass laws that prevent them from being treated equally under the law. Presently in the United States, the current policy is one that is akin to the Jim Crow Laws that existed during the mid 20th century. The Supreme Court said that "separate but unequa

l" did not make it equal when it ruled that segregation was unconstitutional in 1954.

I believe that gay couples should be afforded all the legal rights and protections that would be afforded to heterosexual couples. I do not believe the Constitution of the United States should be amended in any way shape or form to legitimize discrimination against an entire segment of our society. If and when the Constitution is modified, it should be done to grant more rights to its people, not take them away! We are a secular nation, and neither the Bible nor any other religious text for that matter should dictate the outcome in this matter.

I should also like to add that I have friends who are gay and have gone to school and worked with them. I can assure you that they are not the "kaam crazy" beings that some have incorrectly portrayed them as. If you have questions about their motivations and desires, you should have a good heart to heart conversation with them and get their perspective. I think you will see that they are anything but. That is an absurd argument because heterosexual unions also involve an element of kaam as well. You guys swear that having ANY <admin-profanity filter activated> feelings or pleasure is "bad"…I pity that you would deprive yourselves of such a wonderful emotion that God has blessed us with. For a Sikh, we are only told that we should keep from becoming overtly attached or totally consumed by this...

Who people choose to experience this pleasure with, regardless of gender, is nobody’s business but that person alone (including Rosie O’Donell et.al.). Far be it from me to pass my moral beliefs onto an entire society. Worry about your damn selves people before sitting here on your pedestals lookin’ from above. There are lot more pressing issues in this day and age than who people are going to bed and spending their lives with!

-Gurfateh

WJKK, WJKF:

Jassika...

Regardless of whether an egg is fertilized or unfertilized, that egg has one purpose which is to produce another living creature. When an egg is deprived of that ability, you are in essence preventing that life from taking shape. A gursikh should avoid all meat, eggs, fish, and products that contain animal by-products such as gelatin and lard. Period.

As far as whether the original poster has done something "wrong" that would require him to present himself before the five beloved ones, I believe the answer would be no, so long as it was something that was a mistake, that is he didn't honestly know what it was that he was eating. Had he willingly consumed a product that did contain eggs or meat, then it would be a different story.

Bottom line, a simple and heartfelt ardas should do just fine. Just be careful in the future to always double check. FWIW, when in doubt, better left uneaten is my motto.

Oh by the way JSingh, not all bakery products contain eggs...please think about what you are saying and research it before making such a bold and misleading proclamation.

-Gurfateh

WJKK, WJKF:

Clearly, there are some here who are unable to engage in a serious, articulate, and well thought out point of view that can be supported by facts in discussing this topic. I will not names, but I believe they know who they are...

The fact that President Bush may or may not have invited a Sikh to come to White House is irrelevant. This is indicative of the misguided thinking that plagues many in our community who fall for this sort of " window dressing." Simply put, talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words. Mr. Bush has supported policies that encourage racial profiling against Sikhs and the taking away of our civil liberties to say the very least. I do not vote on a single issue. Rather I look at the sum total of a candidate's positions on a wide range of issues such as foreign policy, education, health care, etc.

As far as a public apology goes on Sen. Kerry’s part, I am quietly working behind the scenes with other concerned and involved members of the community to encourage Sen. Kerry to follow-up on what I believe is a sincere and contrite apology, by coming to speak to the Sikh Community here in California before the primary election on March 2nd. I shall do my best to keep the members of this forum posted on all the latest developments.

Now, for all the talk and criticism that has and continues to be leveled against Sen. Kerry here, I think one would be hard pressed in finding a Western politician in this day and age who has publicly gone on record as supporting our brave warriors and calling them "freedom fighters." They will not do that people, at least not on the record. It makes no sense for them to do that. They

are politicians after all!

Sen. Kerry is hardly alone in this thinking. I am sure if you were to ask President Bush and folks in his administration whether or not there are terrorist elements within the Sikh community they would say there are indeed, despite what you or I might say otherwise. In fact I believe it was under his administration’s watch the groups that I cited before were officially banned and/or they continued to believe that they should. This goes way beyond one man’s thinking. It is an entire culture of thinking that we are up against from both sides of the aisle.

If the choice is between Kerry and Bush this fall, I believe that choice is clear. As was said before, we are all entitled to our own opinion(s). That’s the beauty of living in a free and democratic society. However, I believe that I have vigorously outlined my position and supported it with facts in the context of today’s political realities, which is more than I can say for some of you here.

-Gurfateh

WJKK, WJKF:

Personally, I don't think the guys, including me, have any place as far as tellin' how amritdhari women should handle this very delicate and personal matter.

Sikhisim is a practical religion, so women should not fear that they are somehow committing a "sin" should they choose to exercise the options that have been presented here.

FYI, I have seen this issue addressed in the Sikhnet youth forum, and I believe in that instance, the moderators got it right.

And that is all that I will say on the matter...

Gurfateh

Waheguru Je Kha Khalsa, Waheguru Je Ke Fateh:

It would seem that there are some on this message board who for whatever reason, are naïve and not in touch with the political realities of today’s world. Now before everyone here starts flaming me, I would like to go on the record and state that I believe that the brave Singhs and Singhnees who sacrificed their lives in 1984 did so as gallant warriors of the Panth. They died for a cause that is noble, righteous, and just.

However, anytime a group, be they Sikh, Muslim, Catholic, etc. uses violence as a means to achieve a political end, they will be labeled as "terrorist." Such is the case with our fellow brothers and sisters. We all know that they are not terrorists, and yes there are always two sides to a story, but the sad reality is no political candidate can express his support for any such entities because it would be political suicide for them to do so. Keep in mind that groups such as the Babbar Khalsa, ISYF, and KCF are banned in the West, including the United States for being terrorist organizations. With that in mind, what did you expect him to say in his statement? He apologized for giving the impression that ALL Sikhs were connected and/or supported terrorism and that of course is wrong. We may disagree with him as to how we define "terrorism", but he has to operate within a very narrow parameter as far as what he can go on the record as saying. He couldn’t very well say what everyone here would like him to say, because then he could kiss his chances of being President good bye. No presidential candidate/politician wants to be put in the position to where they can be perceived as supporting groups that us

e violence, whether or not that group feels they were justified. It sucks I know, but think about where he is coming from, that’s all I’m saying. As far Iraq goes, well that just goes to show the double standard that is at play here, but I suppose being the world’s lone superpower you get to bit more leverage as to how your actions are perceived by everyone else.

Violence in general may work in the short term but in the long term it has negative consequences in that the group that is defending itself often times ends up doing more damage as far as their image goes. Such is the case with our cause I believe. True, we did what we had to do in 1984, but while we were we were being slaughtered and sacrificing our lives in large numbers, the West was given a very different impression as far as what was unfolding and reasons that lead up to it. Today with the growing political clout Sikhs have in the West, we have a unique opportunity to influence our lawmakers and work through diplomatic channels to address our issues. That is our best hope as further violence is more detrimental in the long run and will not help sway people’s thinking, including John Kerry.

I will just end by saying that, I for one appreciate the fact that Sen. Kerry took the time to issue an apology and it my hope that we can move forward now and work together as a community to see that the best man wins in November and I still believe that that man is Sen. Kerry.

-Gurfateh

Okay, I think its safe to say that there are a wide array of opinions on this topic. I also think we can all agree to disagree.

I have let my opinion be known. I will just end by saying that if Sikhs hope to be successful in the political arena, we are best served by shooting for the grassroots level first. In a little over six weeks ago, Dr. Kuthuria will learn this lesson himself as the polls do not look good for him right now. He is in an uphill battle just to secure his party's nomination...

I wish him well in whatever it is he ultimately decides to do.

Cali_Khalsa out!

-Gurfateh

Oh well so much for that approach...less than an hour after starting the new thread, the "supermoderator" took it down and private messaged me the following:

___________________________________________________________________

CA_Sikh

I want you to know that I'm going to take your post down from the forum and direct it to a file that the campaign reads on regular basis. This is the fastest and best way to have your concerns addressed by the campaign.

We are volunteer moderators on this forum. This concern can not be addressed by us, so we will forward it where it can be read by campaign staff.

Thank you for supporting John Kerry.

We appreciate your trust in this process.

___________________________________________________________________

Can't say that I didn't try people...but I will do whatever I can to get to the bottom of this. Stay tuned!

By the way for those of you who might be interested, here are my brief remarks that accompanied the press release which was taken down by them...

Dear to Whom it May Concern:

I realize that this topic may have come up once before, but it has mysteriously "disappeared" and I would like to bring it up here again with the hope that some light can be shed on the matter….

As a long time Kerry Supporter and a proud Sikh American, I urge Sen. Kerry to please apologize and/or clarify his remarks he made in Oklahoma City last weekend concerning Sikhs and his insinuation that we are connected to terrorism. There is a great deal of shock and anger that is sweeping through the Sikh community both in the United States and around the world in the aftermath of his remark

s. I sincerely hope that the Senator and his campaign managers are taking immediate steps to address this matter as it is causing a great deal of anxiety in our community, especially amongst the youth who have until this point, looked up to him and a few have even volunteered their time to work on the campaign...

Please refer to the following press release for more info on this issue. Your timely cooperation and understanding with regards to this matter is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

A United States Senator plays a much larger role in dealing with international issues than your average congressional representative, or local state/senate rep does. This is the big leagues and you deal with both regional (i.e. your state), national, and international issues. If one were to take a look at the duties of the Senate outlined in the US Constitution, you would understand that.

If we are gonna have a Sikh in there, then we should know full well how he stands on the issues I cited in my earlier post.

I have no doubt that he is a charismatic and very friendly guy...but when it comes to the issues that are near and dear the hearts of the majority of Sikh Americans, he is just dead wrong and out of step. If religion doesn't matter as you say, then why are so many Sikhs so hell bent on getting him into office? Trust me, religion is a big part of their decision making process, or lack thereof. Such much so, that they are forgetting that he is running as a Republican on a right wing agenda.

I am not that desperate to have a Sikh in the mass media to the point where I would set aside my personal beliefs to see that any Sikh gets in. Others might, but not me.

Just my two cents....

-Gurfateh

FYI, I just started up a new thread over at John Kerry's website. Here is the URL:

http://forum.johnkerry.com//index.ppa?showtopic=3620

Hopefully they won't take it down...I included a few personal comments, and cut and pasted the press release put out by SMART. Let's see what happens....

-Gurfateh

Mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan:

I was in no way tryin’ to excuse Senator Kerry’s behavior…I cannot tell you how SAD and ANGRY it made me feel when I got the phone call a few days ago about this. I didn’t want to believe it was true. But the video doesn’t lie, and indeed any self-respecting Sikh cannot help but feel betrayed and sickened by what was said. It is very shocking and incomprehensible as to how an educated man such as himself, could say what he did. When I said "he made a mistake," I meant that in the most literal sense in that he DID make a mistake (i.e. he screwed up) and not that we should just dismiss his comments as a slip of the tongue.

My whole thing is that we need to seize upon this opportunity to better educate not only Sen. Kerry, but indeed all politicians because the reality is we are up against 20 years of lies and propaganda that has been disseminated by the Indian Government both in Washington (through its Embassy) and across the globe. This incident just goes to show you the depths of the challenges that we face in explaining our struggle to the West and its leaders. In the United States that applies to leaders on both sides of the aisle be they Democrat or Republican. Politicians have pre-conceived notions about us and despite the progress we’ve made since 9/11 we still got a ways to go. Thankfully, there are concerned organizations such as SMART and the Sikh Coalition, and individuals like you and others who are seizing on that opportunity to help in this endeavor by setting the record straight.

Bottom line, I totally feel where you are comin’ from and couldn’t agree with you more. If I said something to offend you, I’m really

sorry as that was not my intention. Where I think we differ is, if and when Sen. Kerry comes forward and apologizes and/or clarifies his remarks, will you and moreover the Sikh community at large be willing to forgive him? Only time will tell I suppose, but I try to focus on the bigger picture here and for me, getting Bush out in November is priority number one and I am still convinced that Kerry is the man to do it. Some might say that I am letting my political bias affect me, but I can assure you that if Sen. Kerry does NOT come forward in a timely fashion and admit that what he said was wrong and apologize, then there will further hell to pay than what is going on now. I’m sure Sen. Edwards or Gen. Clark would love the extra votes, mine included!

Again, please accept my sincere apologies if I said something wrong or offensive…

-Gurfateh

SikhforLife,

Having a Sikh in mass media is very important no doubt….but just what kind of Sikh is Mr. Kuthuria? If I want a Sikh out there, then he should be a proper Sikh, not just another wealthy businessman with bucket loads of degrees and money who thinks he can just wear a beard and turban and that’s that. Some questions to think about: What do his spiritual practices consist of? Does he follow rehat? Where does he stand on the issue of Sikh independence, resolving the fate of Sikh political prisoners, and what are his attitudes towards the Indian Government in general should he be elected?

Some might say I’m being harsh, but if he is gonna put himself out there like this, and is askin’ Sikhs to support him, then naturally these questions need to be asked. I’m not sayin’ he needs to be some Brahim Giani out there holier than thou, but at the same time, I can’t bring himself to seeing him being an ambassador of my faith to the rest of the Untied States. There is just something about him that doesn’t sit right with me (other than the obvious).

Also, it should be noted that there are several so called "Sikh leaders" in the United States who have made it a point to associate themselves with him and his candidacy. If being a conservative, right wing-Republican wasn’t cause to raise some alarm bells, this should. Some fundraisers, but not all, have been held for him by some of these shady and corrupt individuals…I will not names, but just think about those "leaders" who are always rushing to get their face in the newspaper or in front of camera at every Gurdwara event, and you will have your answer. They often times try to make themselves out to be panth

ic sevaadars, but actually workin' against the panth...

‘nough said

-Gurfateh

P.S. as far as Cali Sangat goes, this is hardly representative of the sangat that is here...we are nearly 175,000 strong. These people that show up to the fundraisers are more enamored with the fact that he is a "Sikh" and overlook his stance on the issues....a travesty indeed.

Waheguru Je Kha Khalsa, Waheguru Je Fateh:

Personally, I don't know what to make of Dr. Kuthuria. While it is certainly commendable to see a Sikh become involved in the political process, and a very successful one at that, I cannot bring myself to support him because for the simple fact that he is running as a conservative Republican (read Bush puppet)

While he is certainly entitled to his views, as we all are at the end of day, it astounds me that some in our community seem to look past his stance on the issues that are of the most importance to us, and throw their support behind him for the simple fact that he is a "Sikh". Personally, I vote on issues, not on ethnicity or religion. I vehemently disagree with his stance on the Iraq War, taxes, education, etc. I believe that when you get right down to it, his views are not in the mainstream with the majority of Sikhs in America, who have traditionally voted Democratic in large numbers as is the case with most other ethnic/minority groups. This, I might add, is not by accident either. It has a lot to do with the fact that the Republican party is not friendly to immigrants or the issues that are of concern to them, despite what Dr. Kathuria would like us all to believe.

Keep in mind, this is strictly my own opinion. I am not claiming to speak for all Sikh Americans, but I believe that once you look past the fact that he "looks like us," his policies do not bode well for America.

If you want more info, you can go to his website and judge for yourself:

http://www.kathuriaforsenate.com

-Gurfateh

JSingh,

Thank you for your comments. I'm sorry if I failed to indicate so in my initial post, but I have indeed taken the liberty of letting my thoughts on the matter be known to the Kerry campaign shortly after this issue was brought to my attention.

I should also like to add that in the unlikely event that Sen. Kerry fails to repudiate his earlier remarks, I would, and only then, consider switching my support to one of the other candidates left standing. I do not believe it will come to that however.

Also, for those of you who have or are anticipating on joining in on the discussion on Sen. Kerry's website, please be articulate and to the point in your responses. Do not get caught in the trap of discussing all of the details surrounding the events of 1984. This is not the appropriate venue or time for that discussion to take place.

What Sen. Kerry DOES need to hear is that his remarks have hurt many in the Sikh community both here in the United States and worldwide as it is simply wrong and unconscionable to associate the actions of a few with an entire faith. He needs to apologize for his insensitive remarks and/or clarify what he meant. Based on what I've read and seen, it would appear that SMART, myself, and countless other individuals have started to make some headway as evidenced by an earlier post on this message board. I have no doubt that it will only be a matter of time before we hear something official from the man himself. All we can do now is wait for him to do the right thing, which I have no doubt that he will.

-Gurfateh

P.S. the thread over at Sen. Kerry's website has NOT been taken down. The

link is still valid as of this posting (2/5/04 @ 4:45pm PST).

http://forum.johnkerry.com//index.ppa?showtopic=3086

Waheguru Je Kha Khalsa, Waheguru Je Ke Fateh:

Like many of you, I am disturbed by the comments that Sen. Kerry made concerning Sikhs. I am confident that when this matter is brought to his attention, he will do the right thing and apologize. I trust that the sevadaars at SMART will let us know as soon as they hear back from his campaign.

I am just as disturbed, albeit to a lesser degree, about some of the comments that have been posted by some here in your e-mails to his campaign. We will not win over western politicians by telling them "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." This is an extremely ill advised and dare I say, foolish, thing to say in response to this controversy, especially post 9/11. This phrase has been used by supporters of Bin Laden, and similarly by Palestinian terrorists in recent years. This argument does not hold any water, so please refrain from saying this in your correspondence with him. I can assure you it will not sway him one bit, if anything, he will be less inclined to retract his earlier statement.

Sending hate mail will not help either, nor will sending him e-mails that contain the above statement. He made a mistake. No one is perfect. I have followed his career for sometime, and have been a fervent supporter of his in his quest for the presidency and will continue to do so. I am very disappointed with what he said, but I know that he did not mean it. He has been helpful on Sikh causes in the past, especially after September 11th, and I have no doubt that he will do the right thing soon enough. He is our best hope in defeating Bush in November and if things continue to go as they are, I believe he

will tap either Edwards or Clark to be his VP. This will be a formidable challenge and one that our community must rally behind if we are to move this country in a positive direction.

Lastly, to the person who said that Kerry has lost the votes of 500,000 Sikhs. You should have said 499,999 because you certainly do not speak for me. If you wish to give your opinion so be it, but don’t assume that everyone shares the exact same sentiments as you. We are free to disagree, but I think the important thing to keep in mind is that we should seriously think about what we say, before we say it. Sometimes we get caught up in the moment and say stuff that only makes things worse. I don’t think anymore needs to be said at this time. They are clearly aware of the error. The ball is now in their court and again, I do not doubt for a moment that he will do the right thing here.

-Gurfateh