JUSTAJATT

5 hours ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Why is it that positive gatherings like this make Singh's nervous? 

What exactly IS the ideal Sikh woman to you all?

a meek obedient housewife making your rotia, doing your laundry and leaving all the religious duties to men and blindly following what the men tell her to do as she sees herself as subordinate to you. 

or

a strong self willed woman (who still values her family) but instead of hiding behind men at any chance of danger is willing to fight alongside you like Mai Bhago? She leads in prayer and nitnem, alongside you. Sure she might expect you to do your share of dishes and diaper changes but together you are stronger because instead of a subordinate she is your equal. 

I do not think the second option has anything to do at all with western feminism. And what one do you REALLY want in your life?? 

Why do a group of Kaur's getting together to speak about their place in sikhi as equals scare you anyway?

you clearly got feminism-mania or some twisted chromosomes.

All you do is try to separate woman and men in sikhi with a bigger divide. On top of that>> you have serious ego issues> as you never answer a queston but continue ranting your same rant. Maybe you should go on the ellen show to get some support.

Men have roles>> Women have roles>> end of story. No on says anything about one being higher than the other>>except you.

ਗੁਨ ਗੋਬਿੰਦ ਗਾਇਓ ਨਹੀ ਜਨਮੁ ਅਕਾਰਥ ਕੀਨੁ ॥
Gun Gobindh Gaaeiou Nehee Janam Akaarathh Keen ||
If you do not sing the Praises of the Lord, your life is rendered useless.

ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਭਜੁ ਮਨਾ ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਜਲ ਕਉ ਮੀਨੁ ॥੧॥
Kahu Naanak Har Bhaj Manaa Jih Bidhh Jal Ko Meen ||1||
Says Nanak, meditate, vibrate upon the Lord; immerse your mind in Him, like the fish in the water. ||1||

lets not foolishly start slating everyone who praises Gobind.

Bhajans don't mean they are not gurbani kirtan. Bhajans can still be from gurbani. >>some of us automatically associate the word with hindu mat.

Othere praises are just praises but they cant be gurbani. Just like there is lots of other kabir shabads that are NOT gurbani.

BTW. PREET>>Stop trying to pass repeated hindu mat bhajans on Sikh forum, when there is vast amount of gurbani kirtan which is GURU. Bani guru,guru hai bani

On ‎3‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 1:17 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

No disrespect, but I answered your yoga question without a bias answer

No disrespect>much respect. You didn't answer without diverting.

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 tantric yoga is sex yoga; which 3HO does.

Tantric yoga varies according to what energy you are dealing with. Where has 3HO been associated with sex yoga. They do kundalini yoga and white tantric. White tantric is NOT sexual, red tantric done by some hari dammas is twisted sexual form.

I aint got no more interest into listening to guys who refuse to even try and learn what the terms tantra actually mean and also to the jathabandi fanatics amogst us.

If you wanna argue with me, put the gurbani here and we can discuss it Sikh to Sikh, word for word, pangti to pangti. Otherwise, go wash your mouths, clean your ears and open your eyes.

51 minutes ago, muscleman said:

Jacfsing2, I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry after reading this post of yours! 

I just cannot fathom what is contained inside that wonderful tiny little mind of yours. You are always ranting on and on about how you hate Christians on this site even though you hardly know anything about them. What have the Christians ever done to you that was so evil or bad? Why do you always slander Jesus and his Bible? Do you not realise how sinful this can be for your spiritual advancement if you slander prophets of other religions? 

You appear to have so much hate against the White 3HOs too, but why? What are your reasons? What wrong have they ever done to you personally? I know there are still those that have a slave mentality and still view any White skinned person superior to themselves, regardless of their actions; but you claim to be a young person! I am not suggesting you lick their a**es just because they are White, for one minute, like the rest of the quam does!! You just need to be little bit unbiased as well as observant and only hate their (wrong) actions, that's all. Don't you realise how you are poisoning that fresh young mind of yours by indulging with such hateful thoughts about 3HOs and Jesus? 

Have you had very bad experiences with Jesus and his followers or the 3HOs? Just let it go if I were you. I wouldn't like to see that wonderful, beautiful young mind of yours turn into poison while you still have the chance to turn it into a priceless little gem or a jewel instead! You are still young so make an effort to feed your mind with nourishing positive stuff otherwise you will end up turning into a stale cabbage that stinks of you know what..........? 

He's got a lot to learn. He's gotta grab on to the bhakti marg and then he may start seeing the real jot amongst us all.

Don't worry,>>I used to be much worse than him with so much hate and krodh. Sikhi can be quite confusing if people are just stuck on the outer surface. Being a Sikh is supposed to make you realise where other spiritual teachers from different faiths have gone wrong NOT the  faiths. Guru or bani NEVER speaks against a single religion but it speaks against the fat controllers that distort the religions with blind practice. As for Christianity, it's very misunderstood and if a Sikh is slating it >>then that Sikh has a lot to learn yet

5 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

Yoga means union; however, the yoga that relates to the sex and the streches ain't true yoga. Instead of their sex yoga they should just have intercourse, maybe add a few of their personal exercise kinks and fetishes privately in their bedroom; without publicly involving all this nonsense in a public square.

There is no yoga that relates to sex. Even if there were, it has nothing to do with yoga that the Sikh should be concerned about. You are foolishly implying that 3ho is all about some weird yoga and sex >>>>>you are very wrong my friend.

You will claim I am wrong and I will say you are. We can carry on like idiots doing this, which is why I asked where gurbani speaks against yoga. I mean pangti >>line for line and shabad by shabad>>using your own words.   >>Then we shall see.  I don' want no posting of videos or flanna themkhara said this and that. Plain gurbani and constructive workings by individual Sikhs.

HARKIRAN SATKIRAN AKA WHATEVER

Seeing that you think you know so much about atma genders...answer me>>>>

WHAT IS THE DIFFERETNCE BETWEEN SOUL AND SPIRIT??

7 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

Here is why it matters:

atma is genderless - agree?

life is impermanent and this body is false - agree? (Meaning you can't take your <banned word filter activated> with you)

Given that other species procreate asexually, it's known humans reproduce sexually to prevent genetic abnormalities since we are more complex.

Hindus believe someone is born female as punishment for past deeds, must serve males for minimum 6 more lifetimes before being born male and being able to advance.

our Gurus killed this idea saying this HUMAN body is precious and every human has opportunity to merge back with Creator.

if the atma residing in the body is not being punished to be the gender they are, and the atma is genderless and every one is the same divine light then how can those souls in female bodies have to experience punishment while in this life? You have to then say why. 

Also, by saying ALL Sikhs must strive to take Amrit and saying that only males can initiate others then you are basically saying that those souls inhabiting frmale bodies are inherently lower avastha than those in male bodies. Because females would have to entirely rely on males for their spiritual advancement. This speaks as to something being wrong with female bodies or at the very least treating female bodies like a child compared to an adult in spiritual matters. You can't get around the fact that it means souls in female bodies are seen as lower. 

But doesn't Gurbani say that every human is equal and all contain the same divine light equally? How can souls in male bodies be higher spiritually speaking then? 

By sayng women can't do this seva you are saying women can't progress spiritually on their own and require males to pull them along. Nothing like being made to feel inadequate! Imagine that for a moment that the body you ended up with is defective and seen as a vehicle that will break down and never get you to the destination unless towed along by the opposite gender. 

You don't get it and keep repeating the same ol farts.

Where have I spoken about inequality? 

Is this all you are going to do here?>>>> just twist the kachas??   twist my words??

Why don't you pay some goddamned attention to what I said > and swallow what is being told.

You already seen Jordan Peterson lectures that fast???

Go back>>read your posts>> and see what off-tangent cuckoo you really are.

Pathetic

7 minutes ago, HarkiranKaur said:

By the way your mouth could use some soap. Your mother should have taught you better manners than to resort to name calling years ago. Notice I still have not called you any names? And I will never stoop to your low level either. 

And bye you won't get any fans for Charitropakhyan in this part of India. 

Oh>>> no names. you say you don't call names and have never called any >>>but throwing sticks and stones is less than names then?

(just realised maybe canucks don't do the sticks and stones may break my bones..... rhyming)

miss harkiran ji.

You better stop chasing the dogtail with your same ol song and stop getting the kacheras in a twist.

It's a shame cuz looking at your activities on the forums, your sikhi has improved very little over the 3-4 years. Are you gonna just keep doing the same cuz you certainly aint helping yourself or raisng your consciousness. You've been welcomed into sikhi and instead of having humility, dignity and respect, you've just been enforcing your feminist views which btw are nothing to do with equality.

You from Canada, so maybe you should read and see some Jordan Peterson lectures/videos.. That professor's views are more in line with sikhi, for someone who doesn't speak about the faith.. You may learn the difference between what inequality is and how feminism is not the solution and can only make matters worse. 

seriously, >>> you've got to try and swallow some of the points that have been addressed to you over the years. ..Swallow them, meditate on them and let them sprout with knowledge. Swallow them, don't spit.

Maybe a government agent from india?  .>>>>hey, maybe North korea......:)

2 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

No I am saying that one who has performed for Guru ji at Harmandir Sahib has criteria they are supposedly judged on to be named Hazoori .

The early group were not clearly and yet somehow history shows that allowances which amounted to lowering of standards was done for them. 

A Hazoori raagi would have deeper knowledge than those guys so I could understand if they said something silly in unjaan state but a hazoori raagi never. If they want to claim it they have to also Honour Guru ji above everything else , simply.

It seems that you are just convincing yourself with some reasons to hide your own inner weakness and insecurity. >>> to that say,>>Whatever it takes for you to keep your conscience clear!!!

I'm not going to waste my personal "UP" energies from recent morning nitnem, but all I can say is that I have learned to expose and confront my own weaknesses over the last few years. I'm getting better and better every day. Today I'm a better Sikh than yesterday and tomorrow morning, when I get up for nitnem, I want to be better than today. >>> So, I honestly have no desire to argue with your narrow minded arguments and your misinformed slating of yoga.

I'm lucky to have one or two high avastha gurmukh friends that have really helped straighten my dogtail(kuthay dee pooch) out.  One of them told me that I've got to make repeated efforts to improve, day by day and every day. Gurbani says that a dogtail can never be straightened which means you have to keep repeating and repeating the process every day. You straighten it out, but then it bends back again.   He said the key to working on my kuthay dee pooch is to first, stop CHASING the damned tail.   So,>>you know when you keep singing the same argument, time and time again about how bad flanna jatha is and how much beadbi this jatha does and that..>>>you gotta  stop all that>> cuz you are just singing the same song over again and again, like chasing the tail again and again. INSTEAD, you've gotta put energy into straightening the tail, because a short while later the damned thing bends back.

I hope you see what I'm saying. I don't mean no disrespect phenji but it's just that your understanding is misinformed and narrow minded because yoga is huge topic at all levels of perception.  Saying that, gurbani makes it clear that it's all a game of the mind, and whatever it takes for you to grab and control the mind to put it towards guru, then you should do it.   If Bhagat dhana could sit with a stone as centre, to put his mind on akaal purakh, then why can't us moorakhs put it on waheguru, using breath as centre???  >>well, we can. This is saas giraas and saas saas simran which are actually taken from Patanjali yoga and many references by Bhagat Kabir ji and Namdev are referencing raj/patanjali yoga. To understand that, i first had to understand why we had techniques like saas giraas and saas saas. This is how my real journey started and then the treasures that hide behind the veils, began to reveal themselves..  slowly and slowly, holleee hollee, one by one, the revelations came and lead me to take amrit. Therefore, I can never slate the gurmukh friends that helped guide me and all the varieties of Sikhs that inspired me. and Yes, a lot of chardikala jathas kirtan and many 3ho meditation videos were inspiring and are ingredients in the outcome of gurus blessing for me>>> which is probably why I get a little offended when people start slating any jatha as a whole.

Again, no offence and I'm not singling you out cuz you are quite intelligent and have very respectable views imo. I have learned and taken a lot of giaan from some of your posts. Us learning Sikhs have to continue this process of learning, re-learning and correcting ourselves with the help of others until our last breaths at anth-kaal. So lets make some effort for tomorrows amrit vela to keep increasing in power than todays.

all these problems are cuz of jatha culture.

Don't matter what you do and what divides you break, the manukhs will always go form another division

When trying to make decisions> use your sikhi and gurbani to get your answers. The jatha is not your sikhi, just like caste is not your sikhi.

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15 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

do you know what the true qualification is to be hazoori raagi?

This is what the bare minimum you need to have to be able to do kirtan sewa at Harmandir sahib and other Gurdwarey. you need to have mastered all 31 raags in Guru ji and have memorised over 100 shabads  as you are not allowed to be reading off pothian and phones . Shudh uccharan is also a major issue for kirtaniyas.

I doubt seriously Anyone in yogi Bhajan's group who visited and performed in 1971 qualified  but the committee stretched the rules because the outfit were supported by Indira  and they were Goray ... Truth is most of them hadn't had amrit until they got to India and didn't know what it entailed or its significance but Yogi sold it to them . 

Ask any kirtaniya how many years it takes to achieve that level of mastery and they'll tell you many many years.

are you serious here??

You are saying that chardikala jatha are some Back door hazoori ragees ..shame on you again,

 

Chardikala jatha are hazoori rages. Linking them with 3ho has got nothing to do with Sikhism. It's like linking me with the ragamuffin rastas that I used to hang out with.  So what you guys wanna call me a "ganja Sikh" ???

I can't believe how members can just rant the same thing and absolutely have no idea what yoga really is. shame on you!!

most importantly for me, I wouldn't have discovered what Sikhi was about until some 3ho goray caught my attention and opened my eyes. and if any of you guys think that my vision is distorted, then I respectfully challenge you to show me as per gurbani and nothing else. No videos, no hearsay, just the ultimate truth of gurbani.

1 minute ago, HardeepCov said:

My parents are over 65 and Amritdhari. Makes me laugh when we are watching Sikh program on sky and someone with a certain style of dastaar is on TV and mother always has to point out that the person is a Mistry. Or she says 'tarkhan lagda aa'. Then I'll be like 'oh so he doesn't look like a Sikh then? Why you be treating man's differently?' then she be like 'they say themselves they are different with their Ramgarhia gurdwaras etc.' lol

When I ask them why they still believe in castes. They say people who are amritdhari don't have caste but everyone else we should treat accordingly. But then they still point out so and so was this caste before Amritdharis chak. Old punjab folk like my parents are really petty when it comes to things like this.

Another thing just to give an example of their way of thinking. They'll say it's okay, or even good for us if my sister ties rakhri on my wrist because I'm not amritdhari. But for them it's a strict no no. But then they try encourage us to do. Same with Lohri and other things. 

We've had plenty of conversations about this and I know they will never change their thinking. Many of the older generation are like this. Some changed but others refuse to. 

the same problems kept us young anglo-punjabis quite confused for years. Most of my mates at school could never understand this hypocrisy amongst Punjabi people..  

I spent most of my childhood behaving and trying to do what apnay people like to be SEEN doing. All this ever did, was lead to disorientated youth and penjees running away. It screwed me mentally so much that I was the lowest of low on the streets until I found a reformed old buddy who btw. is on this forum sometimes. This guy helped me to really find myself and taught me naam japna techniques.

2 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

English translations done by yoga worshippers is not a repsentation of my Guru; Gurbani.

Show me your translation Mr. "holier than thou" ??

1 hour ago, Khalistanisinghni said:

The lifestyle of jatts/ramghariyas/chamars can vary vastly. Perhaps, that is why a "jatt" would be hesitant in letting his kids marry someone who is not a "jatt". Most importantly, it is often the people from "lower" castes who don't abandon their habits, they use sikhi to justify their equality without following and respecting other parts of sikhi. Not say all of them are included but quite a few.

I wouldn't have no problem with my kids marrying non-jatt because in terms of tribal trade, we don't do jack all here in UK.  Obviously, my ancestral  trade will no longer be in my blood line which is probably why I am quite proud to call myself with my inherited clan label.

I used to look at caste on the surface and automatically associate with cultural prejudice. But another fellow gurmukh Sikh friend of mine, showed me how the gurus were all married within caste and how it wasn't associated with discrimination. It's just that we people wrongly stick the two labels together.

On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 2:58 PM, Jacfsing2 said:

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh! Can anyone explain logically why caste still exists in our Panth? Especially among those who tell everyone caste doesn't exist to the outside, but when it comes for actually putting it into practice they forget everything about the right side. There are Hindus today who value their personal caste less than some Sikhs which is just depressing if you asked anyone. Also how can we logically combat this idea in some old-aged Pakhandis minds. Especially among Pakhandidharis, (those who took Amrit yet still keep Non-Sikh practices), which makes people question the need for Amrit. Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

caste is a misused term mate.

I understand caste as origin, trade and tribe, roots etc.  But, hang on>>>> Discriminating against other castes is indeed a crime. 

When one caste disregards or puts down others, then yeh boy>>>, that's wrong.  I see all castes as equal and only see them through a fair lens. Be proud of your caste, be proud of your origin, be proud of your colour. Don't go around slating other castes or acting like you are from highr origin than guy next door.

Do any of you guys know what Yoga means?

@Akalifauj, you clearly don't know if gurbani speaks against yoga or not..

I challenge you for evidence.> shabad by shabad and line by line > your own words and then we shall see.

7 hours ago, jkvlondon said:

Stop putting people on pedestals just of their colour , even just because of their worldy achievements that is nothing compared to achieving in the dharmic field : sewa, simran and Kirtan.

you guys should stop making your own judgements. They are nothing but manmat. Everytime you see a gora, you immediately start to differentiate. so, think about it, you are the one's being predjudice.  As soon as you notice black from white and make a line inbetween it, then you've done nothing about what sikhi tells you.

screw this Gurd-a$$  man geaza. Boy, I used to be a hardcore fan for years and I even went up and down UK with his tour back in 1990.   The brit youth of that day needed the influence of any kind of Punjabi. any kind of cultural injection that could wake up some Punjabi blood in the kids. That was the reason I gave him so much respect back then.  However, after my own battles with booze and doing putthay kamh, and then finally braking free from those depths of hell,  I got to a stage where I started hating his guts because of his "apna Punjab hovay" song.  He p**sed me off so much that I could have chopped him up if I ever saw him again. Thes geaza is a loser. He is fake  and does it all for the money. On top of that, he's the biggest effin hypocrite. He may have helped some youths like me to stay more Punjabi back then, but he's done the worst since he got bigger and bigger with the apna Punjab karh di sharaab crap.  

The 2 most hated people in music on my blacklist is gurd's A$$  himself and the overated Drake the goddammed fake.

Hey west coast dude,  stop stressing yourself too much. You shouldn't give a toss to what others think.

Being a follower of Guru Nanak ji's teachings is about being a Sikh, and that Sikh is a learner. Life's about learning the LESSONS. There are the lessons from your previous births and there's also the lessons for the life you live now.

I'm gonna seriously tell you that you can better yourself by putting energy into simran and naam jaap. Seriously, that is what it is all about. You have to make that effort first before gurbani will begin to settle inside you.

I did the same as you and much worse, but I can tell you man,  I look back to those dark days, and I'm glad. Yeh, I'm seriously glad that I faced that $hit and those issues. I couldn't care less if some one says I handled it the wrong way or the right way back then, but all that matters is...... that today........, I know I'm a better geaza. I know my conscious is more clear. I know I'm a better learner and have learned. this means I'm a better Sikh. ...and that's all that matters dude.  Guru judges you for what you are right now. Sikhi isn;t about being judged about past. it is all about the NOW.  Gurbani mentions many paapis that woke up suddenly and realised their wrong doings. They learened in an instant just by making small efforts to the Guru. Kauda raksh just saw the truth of Guru Nanak ji that made him waken to his own true self. That's all that mattered,, he learned, he got their in the end.  LIFE is meant to be an UPHILL battle.  and that's what I love about it.  If life was just a simple boat sail in a steady breeze, then it would be pretty boring and worthless for me.  I'd still be the drunk jatt dancing with bukray    There's a Sikh guy I know who used to keep telling me that it's all inside you man. I never really understood what he was on about most of the time.  He kept pushing and encouraging me to try and meditate..and to do naam jap. Eventually he taught me a few techniques and tricks on how to grab the mind and get cracking.   and boy ..oh boy,,  I'm beginning to see what he was telling me and I'm beginning to see that its all about the truth inside me and you.

O yeh, btw, I'm still gonna go around saying I'm a better jatt as well, even though I never done jack all kethee bane  Be proud of who and what you are. Don't class yourself or other's as better. Don't ever feel that you aint worthy either.  Just get on kicking it, get on living it, and get on bettering yourself.

Good stuff! ..   respect to these guys for their efforts.  

you have to understand what yog actually means and the science behind it.