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In the uk we have Ramgharia gurdwaras, in some places ther are called Ramgharia sabha! However, I think most gurdwaras and even sikhs calling themselves "Ramgharia" are scamming us as they have weak or no connections to Ramgharia misl, and are just using the fact that they are tarkhans they can use the Ramgharia term because Jassa Singh Ramgharia was from tarkhan background. Please prove me wrong! Also, I have been observing gurdwaras since I was young. I remember when I was a child in the 80s and 90s, Singh Sabha gurdwaras still allowed shoes and langar was eaten on tables, in the times when the adults used to work all the time, doing double shifts etc. However in the 2000s we can see a change in Singh Sabha gurdwaras as well as some other gurdwaras, where shoes are no longer allowed, and we have a lot of space to sit on the floor and do pangat in langar. It's really strange to see so many tables in gurdwaras after seeing langar done exclusivily on the floor gurdwaras in Panjab and India. Just look at Harimandir Sahib, 4 takht, and many other gurdwaras back home. Now, across London, Slough and Berkshire, midlands, I have noticed Ramgharia gurdwaras allow shoes into langar and have little or no accommodation for sitting on the floor. It is bizarre to see in Ramgharia gurdwaras, the sangat coming from doing sangat or matha tek in divan hall, and then putting on their shoes to go to langar. Like we are going to a restaurant or something! What is this, is it some kind of kenya/east africa sikh colonial army era tradition to keep doing this, even after the other gurdwaras have moved back to giving satkar and respect for langar maryada? Then we come to the scam, in the Ramgharia gurdwaras, there seems to be more links to East Africa sikhs than Ramgharia misl. There are more trim Singhs with Kenya paghs on Ramgharia gurdwara committees compared to more sabat surat Singhs on Singh sabha committees, from my observations in these England regions. You will find more kenya pagh and trim or fixo darhi, than bana walay Singh in these gurdwaras, again the Ramgharia label is scamming us, as Ramgharia is used for sabat soorat Singhs from the misl, especially those tuned to bana (and open beard is part of bana). Also, I have listened to Rehraas Sahib in some Ramgharia gurdwaras, and they read the disfigured bhasauria SGPC style of Chaupai Sahib (such as the way performed at Harimandir Sahib the past 100 years), skipping arril and the last lines of kabyo baach benti, which makes them more like a Singh Sabha gurdwara and far removed from being Ramgharia due to having similar disrespect towarda bani as Singh sabha gurdwaras, as Ramgharia misl would respect dasam bani and read the full kabyo baach benti. So the langar thing is bizarre, and now I think of it it's disrespectful. And the use of Ramgharia sikhs and Ramgharia gurdwaras term is a scam as they are anything but, as there is so much disrespect to be associated with the practices of Ramgharia misl! Even the fact they celebrate Maharaja Jassa Singh Ramgharia's birthday doesn't allow them any forgiveness or courtesy! This goes double for the Slough Ramgharia Singh Sabha, as they have a statue of Jassa Singh Ramgharia, and yet are their actions related to actual Ramgharia? Yeh, let's not fall for the scam! and sikhs that are sangat in those gurdwaras, really need to step up and get in those committees and change things for chardi kala! We need to see more chardikala Singhs running things, not trim Singhs and fixo Singhs!

Majority of Sikhs on this site seem to be against 'using' Pak to further our own interests, citing issues such as grooming and kidnappings in Pak. What would they say of medieval Sikhs who accepted Nawabi from Moghuls and the likes of Jassa Singh Ramgarhia being soldiers of of Adina Beg in the mid eigteenth century? The Mughals surely did worse things than Pak Govt/populace, and yet there seems to have been an consensus at that given time in history that alliances or strategic moves could be made with enemies (not justifying the Ramgarhia soldiering for Adina Beg though), so why would it be such an issue in this day and age ? PS. Go through all threads I have created throughout the years before assuming I am pro Muslims or Pak.